Help an 11 yr. old bound for music school
March 29, 2006 8:03 AM Subscribe
Any info on what an 11 year old should be doing in preparation for acceptance into a college specailizing in music. He is very self motivated, loves playing the guitar, can play the piano and has mentioned Juilliard several times. Not sure where he picked up that particular name. Any info would be greatly appreciated by his non-college, non-musical mother...
I'm no musician, but I'd guess that there are certain paths to follow for this sort of thing -- certain instruments to learn, certain things to do. Hopefully MeFites can sort this out for you.
I would recommend looking into music summer camp, like Interlochen.
posted by k8t at 8:13 AM on March 29, 2006
I would recommend looking into music summer camp, like Interlochen.
posted by k8t at 8:13 AM on March 29, 2006
For music, is there a youth orchestra in your area? Groups like GBYSO or RIPYO are good preparation for ensemble work, and are a chance to be around other children who are really serious about music, which he might not get in school or other types of activities.
For college preparation, it's important to note that the top-notch schools like Julliard or Curtis are more selective (5-7% of applicants accepted) than the Ivy League colleges (10-12%) - and the population is already self-selected for application there. If he's serious about Julliard (and that sort of goal can change so much in the next couple years), he'll need to be just as serious about school, academics, and other extracurriculars as if he were trying for any other top school, plus music on top of that.
posted by nonane at 8:23 AM on March 29, 2006
For college preparation, it's important to note that the top-notch schools like Julliard or Curtis are more selective (5-7% of applicants accepted) than the Ivy League colleges (10-12%) - and the population is already self-selected for application there. If he's serious about Julliard (and that sort of goal can change so much in the next couple years), he'll need to be just as serious about school, academics, and other extracurriculars as if he were trying for any other top school, plus music on top of that.
posted by nonane at 8:23 AM on March 29, 2006
Discuss the matter with his music teacher(s) -- if they don't know, they may be the wrong teachers. Is there a college nearby that has a large music program? You could find out what kind of community programs they offer, or ask some of the music professors there for advice.
posted by JanetLand at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2006
posted by JanetLand at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2006
As someone who went to a music school (i.e. a high-school) and then a music conservatory from my experience I would recommend that your son practices a lot, but also concentrates on theory and ear training. Theory is always useful and ear training will make him a better musician. I would also second the suggestion that he familiarizes himself with all kinds of music.
If possible it would be great for him to go to orchestral concerts but also to listen to recordings of the standard orchestral repertoire (i.e. borrow CD's from a library, or search for online resources) as well as the standard repertoire in whatever instruments he plays (as well as all other genres of music.) In order for him to learn these things you'll probably have to do some learning yourself.
posted by ob at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2006
If possible it would be great for him to go to orchestral concerts but also to listen to recordings of the standard orchestral repertoire (i.e. borrow CD's from a library, or search for online resources) as well as the standard repertoire in whatever instruments he plays (as well as all other genres of music.) In order for him to learn these things you'll probably have to do some learning yourself.
posted by ob at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2006
Try to find a Julliard alumni music teacher. He can help assess how realistic that particular ambition is, and steer him toward the skills and repertoire that would require.
posted by StickyCarpet at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2006
posted by StickyCarpet at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2006
I graduated from Berklee College of Music in Boston. Aside from general advice about becoming a better musician (practice, ear training, learn repertoire, etc.), you're looking for advice specific to college. I'll tell you that in my experience, music colleges are actually very different (Berklee versus Eastman versus Juilliard, for example). Your best bet would be to:
1.) Contact the schools directly. Speak with admissions staff. Also, ask to be put in touch with current students and alumni who are willing to share their experiences.
2.) Use the internet to find alumni where you can. MySpace has a small catalog of Berklee grads, for instance. And if you browse a school's listing on RateMyProfessors.com, you'll see that some of the ratings include email addresses. You can get some ideas about the school just by reading the ratings, but dig deeper by contacting students directly.
posted by cribcage at 8:35 AM on March 29, 2006
1.) Contact the schools directly. Speak with admissions staff. Also, ask to be put in touch with current students and alumni who are willing to share their experiences.
2.) Use the internet to find alumni where you can. MySpace has a small catalog of Berklee grads, for instance. And if you browse a school's listing on RateMyProfessors.com, you'll see that some of the ratings include email addresses. You can get some ideas about the school just by reading the ratings, but dig deeper by contacting students directly.
posted by cribcage at 8:35 AM on March 29, 2006
Seconding theory and ear training. As someone about to graduate from a good music conservatory, I would have given anything to have been exposed to ear training much earlier. Keep up his piano, too.
If guitar's going to be his instrument of choice, he'll need an excellent guitar teacher. Excellent teachers in any field (Particularly music) are *extremely* difficult to find. If there's a conservatory in the area, the easiest way to figure out who's good in town is to find a few guitar students and ask them who they'd recommend.
posted by anonymoose at 8:36 AM on March 29, 2006
If guitar's going to be his instrument of choice, he'll need an excellent guitar teacher. Excellent teachers in any field (Particularly music) are *extremely* difficult to find. If there's a conservatory in the area, the easiest way to figure out who's good in town is to find a few guitar students and ask them who they'd recommend.
posted by anonymoose at 8:36 AM on March 29, 2006
Conservatory-trained professional musician chiming in here with things that I would have paid more attention to had I known:
First of all, I think it's important to find a balance between your son's emotional connection to music and the fact that being a musician is a skill that requires a lot of discipline and training. If you go too far in one direction, then music becomes a formless, shapeless indulgence without enough grounding; too far in the other direction and you lose the joy. Adult supervision (whether by you or a teacher, or, better yet, both) can help your son stay in touch with whatever it is that fascinates and mystifies him about music while still developing his abilities.
Second, I concur with all those who suggest that developing his ear is absolutely essential. It represents the difference between putting his fingers in the right place at the right time versus MAKING MUSIC! It's all about internalizing the sounds, and the way us humans do that is, first and foremost, through our ears.
Third, no matter what kind of music and instrument he plays, I'd suggest that he devote some time to composition. At some point we develop this notion that there are those who CREATE the music and those who REPRODUCE the music. I suspect that the difference is much less clear to a child, and that is something worth dwelling on, I believe.
Finally, he should listen to as much music as possible. This is a tricky line to walk, because listening should ideally be an emotionally-based experience, as opposed to what it often becomes to jaded musicians (or, worse yet, uptight music students) - an exercise. I can't tell you how many people I know who have gone through long periods of listening to music that they are "supposed" to listen to, rather than music that they WANT to listen to. It's tricky because there is some music which, I believe, EVERYONE (especially musicians) needs to know - Beethoven's symphonies, Kind of Blue, The Beatles, to name a few. On the other hand, he may not LIKE that music. That's a perfectly valid conclusion - no one is OBLIGATED to LIKE any music - but I do believe that he needs to KNOW that music, in order to contribute to the marketplace of musical ideas, in whatever capacity.
On top of all that, practice loads and loads. And, finally, be a human being - exercise, love, learn, etc. If it ain't in his heart, it won't come out of his horn - or strings, or keys, or whatever. Did Duke Ellington say that? Whoever it was, he was a very good musician.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2006
First of all, I think it's important to find a balance between your son's emotional connection to music and the fact that being a musician is a skill that requires a lot of discipline and training. If you go too far in one direction, then music becomes a formless, shapeless indulgence without enough grounding; too far in the other direction and you lose the joy. Adult supervision (whether by you or a teacher, or, better yet, both) can help your son stay in touch with whatever it is that fascinates and mystifies him about music while still developing his abilities.
Second, I concur with all those who suggest that developing his ear is absolutely essential. It represents the difference between putting his fingers in the right place at the right time versus MAKING MUSIC! It's all about internalizing the sounds, and the way us humans do that is, first and foremost, through our ears.
Third, no matter what kind of music and instrument he plays, I'd suggest that he devote some time to composition. At some point we develop this notion that there are those who CREATE the music and those who REPRODUCE the music. I suspect that the difference is much less clear to a child, and that is something worth dwelling on, I believe.
Finally, he should listen to as much music as possible. This is a tricky line to walk, because listening should ideally be an emotionally-based experience, as opposed to what it often becomes to jaded musicians (or, worse yet, uptight music students) - an exercise. I can't tell you how many people I know who have gone through long periods of listening to music that they are "supposed" to listen to, rather than music that they WANT to listen to. It's tricky because there is some music which, I believe, EVERYONE (especially musicians) needs to know - Beethoven's symphonies, Kind of Blue, The Beatles, to name a few. On the other hand, he may not LIKE that music. That's a perfectly valid conclusion - no one is OBLIGATED to LIKE any music - but I do believe that he needs to KNOW that music, in order to contribute to the marketplace of musical ideas, in whatever capacity.
On top of all that, practice loads and loads. And, finally, be a human being - exercise, love, learn, etc. If it ain't in his heart, it won't come out of his horn - or strings, or keys, or whatever. Did Duke Ellington say that? Whoever it was, he was a very good musician.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2006
Practice. And also an open mind to what could be in store for his future. I made the mistake of going into performance & ended up switching majors due to the competition & stress. There are many careers out there in music that don't just involve playing on a stage - like music therapy, music business, teaching, etc.
posted by Alpenglow at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2006
posted by Alpenglow at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2006
Lots of great advice here!
One thing I noticed about the music prodigies I knew during my middle school and high school years is that they really used the musical groups at school to their advantage. Even though their talent way outshined the overall quality of the groups, they made sure to:
1. Take part in every single school musical group available--band, orchestra, choir, jazz band, chamber choir, etc. Different schools do this different ways, but at my school they made it possible to take part in many different music groups without sacrificing any time from the rest of the classes. This is basically an opportunity to broaden his exposure/experience. And singing can help his ear. The drawback: a swelled ego.
2. Along those same lines, they took their participation in the school groups as an opportunity to learn new instruments other than their primary one. Learning the basics of a wide variety of instruments can really enrich your general musical education, I think. And if you do it at school, it's free! (As opposed to investing a fortune in a tuba and lessons one year, a bass and lessons the next, and so on). You can also help your school band out in the sections they're low on--a really talented kid can pick things up pretty fast.
3. In high school, they often served as "assistant conductor," giving them an opportunity to work with the whole group, which gives a different perspective.
And of course they always went to music camp and competitive festivals like all-district and all-state--they had things like this even when we were as young as eleven. Of couse, I went too, and I'm no prodigy. And they participated in local competitions and recitals where they could win scholarships and stuff. Juilliard ain't cheap, yo.
This is secondary, of course, but all of the above also serve as "resume builders" of sorts--meaning, of course, the old cliche, "it will look good on the application." And, of course, that stands true even if he decides to go to a regular old liberal arts college, too.
posted by lampoil at 9:30 AM on March 29, 2006
One thing I noticed about the music prodigies I knew during my middle school and high school years is that they really used the musical groups at school to their advantage. Even though their talent way outshined the overall quality of the groups, they made sure to:
1. Take part in every single school musical group available--band, orchestra, choir, jazz band, chamber choir, etc. Different schools do this different ways, but at my school they made it possible to take part in many different music groups without sacrificing any time from the rest of the classes. This is basically an opportunity to broaden his exposure/experience. And singing can help his ear. The drawback: a swelled ego.
2. Along those same lines, they took their participation in the school groups as an opportunity to learn new instruments other than their primary one. Learning the basics of a wide variety of instruments can really enrich your general musical education, I think. And if you do it at school, it's free! (As opposed to investing a fortune in a tuba and lessons one year, a bass and lessons the next, and so on). You can also help your school band out in the sections they're low on--a really talented kid can pick things up pretty fast.
3. In high school, they often served as "assistant conductor," giving them an opportunity to work with the whole group, which gives a different perspective.
And of course they always went to music camp and competitive festivals like all-district and all-state--they had things like this even when we were as young as eleven. Of couse, I went too, and I'm no prodigy. And they participated in local competitions and recitals where they could win scholarships and stuff. Juilliard ain't cheap, yo.
This is secondary, of course, but all of the above also serve as "resume builders" of sorts--meaning, of course, the old cliche, "it will look good on the application." And, of course, that stands true even if he decides to go to a regular old liberal arts college, too.
posted by lampoil at 9:30 AM on March 29, 2006
If he really wants to go to a music conservatory, he is probably playing music to the point where his other responsibilities suffer already. He should be sucking every ounce of experience out of every resource available to him, and your job is to widen the field of opportunities for him to experience. The suggestions mentioned above - regional youth orchestras and other ensembles, professional concerts, conversations with conservatory alums, mentorship from professional musicians and people who have experience with conservatories, summer camps - all are super duper.
I went to the Music School at Northwestern U. for my undergraduate degree, and I grew up in a small town. When I got to college I found out that the things I had to work hard to find were readily available to students with more money or in more urban areas. I was grateful that my parents took the time and money to drive me from one place to the next while I was growing up to give me the experience that my public education just wasn't funded to offer, but that other kids could afford to take for granted.
Whatever you do, don't read Henry Kingsbury's Music, Talent and Performance.
posted by billtron at 10:12 AM on March 29, 2006 [1 favorite]
I went to the Music School at Northwestern U. for my undergraduate degree, and I grew up in a small town. When I got to college I found out that the things I had to work hard to find were readily available to students with more money or in more urban areas. I was grateful that my parents took the time and money to drive me from one place to the next while I was growing up to give me the experience that my public education just wasn't funded to offer, but that other kids could afford to take for granted.
Whatever you do, don't read Henry Kingsbury's Music, Talent and Performance.
posted by billtron at 10:12 AM on March 29, 2006 [1 favorite]
By which I mean, don't read the kingsbury if you want to retain an optimal impression of the conservatory system. It can be brutal and onely, as he points out.
Addendum: play something cheap, portable, and unpopular, like the viola. He will get a lot farther with less competition than if he played the cello, violin, or piano. I suggest turntablism, although that's not really cheap or portable or, since the end of the last millenium, unpopular [requires NYTimes subscription].
posted by billtron at 10:33 AM on March 29, 2006
Addendum: play something cheap, portable, and unpopular, like the viola. He will get a lot farther with less competition than if he played the cello, violin, or piano. I suggest turntablism, although that's not really cheap or portable or, since the end of the last millenium, unpopular [requires NYTimes subscription].
posted by billtron at 10:33 AM on March 29, 2006
I worked at Interlochen (as mentioned by k8t) and though it is not any sort of prerequisite to get into schools like Julliard, there was definitely a strong correlation between the students who attended the Interlochen summer camps becoming the students who attended year-round school at Interlochen going on to be students at schools like Julliard.
posted by iurodivii at 10:34 AM on March 29, 2006
posted by iurodivii at 10:34 AM on March 29, 2006
To re-iterate what most people have already said, ear training, theory, and practice will be the cornerstones of his musical education. If he's already into piano and guitar that is good, it will make theory and rthym easier.
I would also suggest exposing him to singing. When you get into a college music program it's usually the voices vs. the instruments. Many times ear training involves sight singing pieces never before seen by the student. Singers usually have an advantage here. However, ear training at the collegiate level usually also included speaking or tapping complicated rthymes and the instrumentalists usally blow the vocalists out of the water in this area. Someone who can walk into a program and do both will have a distinct advantage.
Also, get him as much performance experience as possible. Youth Symphonies, Orchestra's, Choirs, all of it. Summer programs can be expensive, but can change lives. Private lessons in one or more of the instruments he likes will also be necessary if he wants to perform. If it's composition (and he can definitely do both) he likes, the exposing him to all sorts of music and let him use his piano theory to write songs.
A warning: music can be as cut throat as sports in both High School and College. Scholarships are fewer in these areas the so the pressure is tremendous. Sometimes the line between enjoying music for yourself and being the best at something can get blurred and burnout is a real issue.
posted by Smarson at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2006
I would also suggest exposing him to singing. When you get into a college music program it's usually the voices vs. the instruments. Many times ear training involves sight singing pieces never before seen by the student. Singers usually have an advantage here. However, ear training at the collegiate level usually also included speaking or tapping complicated rthymes and the instrumentalists usally blow the vocalists out of the water in this area. Someone who can walk into a program and do both will have a distinct advantage.
Also, get him as much performance experience as possible. Youth Symphonies, Orchestra's, Choirs, all of it. Summer programs can be expensive, but can change lives. Private lessons in one or more of the instruments he likes will also be necessary if he wants to perform. If it's composition (and he can definitely do both) he likes, the exposing him to all sorts of music and let him use his piano theory to write songs.
A warning: music can be as cut throat as sports in both High School and College. Scholarships are fewer in these areas the so the pressure is tremendous. Sometimes the line between enjoying music for yourself and being the best at something can get blurred and burnout is a real issue.
posted by Smarson at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2006
My daughter is just about to graduate from high school and is in the final stages of picking a music program. She's being strongly courted by 2 different schools. What I think made the difference for her is performance.
Yes, practice endlessly, but even more important, perform as often as possible. If your kid is really interested in music, don't let them be a hermit - make sure they get engaged into performance, solo and ensemble as often as possible.
Two of her friends are currently in terrific programs - a pianist at Juilliard and a saxophonist at Berklee. Both are stunningly, amazingly, good. And both performed constantly as high school students. They got noticed and made some terrific connections (as did my daughter - without dropping names, she has established friendships and mentoring relationships with some top performers and recording artists - it leaves me shaking my head in amazement).
Practice, then perform!
posted by cptnrandy at 12:14 PM on March 29, 2006
Yes, practice endlessly, but even more important, perform as often as possible. If your kid is really interested in music, don't let them be a hermit - make sure they get engaged into performance, solo and ensemble as often as possible.
Two of her friends are currently in terrific programs - a pianist at Juilliard and a saxophonist at Berklee. Both are stunningly, amazingly, good. And both performed constantly as high school students. They got noticed and made some terrific connections (as did my daughter - without dropping names, she has established friendships and mentoring relationships with some top performers and recording artists - it leaves me shaking my head in amazement).
Practice, then perform!
posted by cptnrandy at 12:14 PM on March 29, 2006
Another performance major (oboe) here, though I went to a state school (with a recognized music department) in order to get a liberal arts education as well as the BM.
Some additional advice:
Find out which contemporary musicians he likes. Some just might be teachers at the conservatories/colleges, or run camps, etc.
See what sort of societies there are for his instruments and get him a student membership. This is a great way to learn more about the community,as well as contests and camps.
As your son enters high school, learn who the top instructors are at the schools. Talk to these professors and learn more about the program. Most performance majors choose their school based solely on who teaches the instrument.
Start saving now for quality instruments. I got one upgrade when I entered high school, one when I started college, and another when I graduated from college. Granted, oboes tend to get "blown out" with age.
And as had been said, talk with his music teachers! I structure my private oboe lessons differently for kids who want to go on a professional track.
posted by Sangre Azul at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2006
Some additional advice:
Find out which contemporary musicians he likes. Some just might be teachers at the conservatories/colleges, or run camps, etc.
See what sort of societies there are for his instruments and get him a student membership. This is a great way to learn more about the community,as well as contests and camps.
As your son enters high school, learn who the top instructors are at the schools. Talk to these professors and learn more about the program. Most performance majors choose their school based solely on who teaches the instrument.
Start saving now for quality instruments. I got one upgrade when I entered high school, one when I started college, and another when I graduated from college. Granted, oboes tend to get "blown out" with age.
And as had been said, talk with his music teachers! I structure my private oboe lessons differently for kids who want to go on a professional track.
posted by Sangre Azul at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2006
When I was a teenager, I had a similar ambition, only I was a singer. I decided I didn't want to go to a conservatory just before I would have had to do the final push. So I know a lot of the steps up to that point.
Anyway, if you both decide to really pursue this, and there is a college music program in your area, you should find out if they offer pre-college classes. 11 might be a little young, but some sort of professional instruction would be the way you want to go. Probably there would be some standard curriculum at the college for younger students (there was at mine, and there were maybe a couple hundred pre-college students). This might include theory and ear-training, which is indeed valuable.
If he continues, he'll want to get involved with ensembles and perhaps go to a music camp. I went to Oberlin's opera camp.
Finally, he'll need to find out about the curricula and admissions procedures for whatever schools he's interested in. I would have had to submit a tape, and then go in for an audition if I got further.
Now, 11 is a little young to be making a huge commitment, so just play it by ear and see how it goes. I had a look at curricula for the various schools, found out that music would basically be the only thing I'd learn about, and decided to get a broader college education. In my case, that was the right way to go. And he shouldn't get hung up on Juilliard--I've known Juilliard students, and the competition and stress getting in is insane. Once you're there, it gets even worse. Something to think about down the road.
posted by lackutrol at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2006
Anyway, if you both decide to really pursue this, and there is a college music program in your area, you should find out if they offer pre-college classes. 11 might be a little young, but some sort of professional instruction would be the way you want to go. Probably there would be some standard curriculum at the college for younger students (there was at mine, and there were maybe a couple hundred pre-college students). This might include theory and ear-training, which is indeed valuable.
If he continues, he'll want to get involved with ensembles and perhaps go to a music camp. I went to Oberlin's opera camp.
Finally, he'll need to find out about the curricula and admissions procedures for whatever schools he's interested in. I would have had to submit a tape, and then go in for an audition if I got further.
Now, 11 is a little young to be making a huge commitment, so just play it by ear and see how it goes. I had a look at curricula for the various schools, found out that music would basically be the only thing I'd learn about, and decided to get a broader college education. In my case, that was the right way to go. And he shouldn't get hung up on Juilliard--I've known Juilliard students, and the competition and stress getting in is insane. Once you're there, it gets even worse. Something to think about down the road.
posted by lackutrol at 12:50 PM on March 29, 2006
I don't want to be a broken record about the (largely fantastic) advice in this thread, but I'll suggest putting a lot of effort into finding a truly great teacher for their primary instrument. You want somebody who is qualified to introduce all aspects of music, not just how to play a guitar or a piano.
As for the school, it's okay to let them think about Julliard, but if they stick with music, they should really start learning about other schools. There are a ton of fantastic music schools, and it would be foolish to rule out Curtis, Eastman, New England, Berklee, among others.
Not to mention the fact that Curtis is free. And it comes with a free Steinway if they end up majoring in anything where that could be useful (keyboard instruments, composition, conducting).
posted by I Love Tacos at 1:43 PM on March 29, 2006
As for the school, it's okay to let them think about Julliard, but if they stick with music, they should really start learning about other schools. There are a ton of fantastic music schools, and it would be foolish to rule out Curtis, Eastman, New England, Berklee, among others.
Not to mention the fact that Curtis is free. And it comes with a free Steinway if they end up majoring in anything where that could be useful (keyboard instruments, composition, conducting).
posted by I Love Tacos at 1:43 PM on March 29, 2006
Great advice so far. I just wanted to add one more idea that might be helpful to a parent. Informal training guided by your sons interests can also lead to a successful career in music. I went to fine arts camp starting at age 12 and took lessons on piano and trumpet, but by high school I lost interest in organized music instruction. The skills that got me work as a musician in my late teens and continues today, I taught myself by first by listening and playing along with recordings and the radio, and next by playing gigs with other musicians.
I got college degrees in subjects other than music, but played all along the way in school bands and my own bands. After grad school I played full time for about eight years and made a decent living just doing that.
I do other interesting things to make money now, but I still perform once a week or so and expect to do so more or less for the rest of my life.
posted by nonmyopicdave at 1:26 AM on March 30, 2006
I got college degrees in subjects other than music, but played all along the way in school bands and my own bands. After grad school I played full time for about eight years and made a decent living just doing that.
I do other interesting things to make money now, but I still perform once a week or so and expect to do so more or less for the rest of my life.
posted by nonmyopicdave at 1:26 AM on March 30, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Practice, practice, practice."
He needs to practice as much as possible, balancing that with being a normal 11-year-old kid. Expose him to as much different music as possible. I mean everything. From Baroque to Heavy Metal and everywhere in between. Encourage him to experiment, to try and write anything that comes into his head. Suggest also that he try learning songs by ear. Start simply, and work up to more complex pieces. Playing by ear is an incredibly important skill for a musician, and one unfortunately I don't have.
Also encourage him--and this will be difficult--to wear earplugs if he's going to be around continuous loud music or noise.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:09 AM on March 29, 2006