Unwitting participant in a sort of menage a quatre
February 26, 2021 7:06 AM Subscribe
My friend (F) and I just figured out that another friend (M) was secretly sleeping with both of us AND his now-partner all at the same time. We are hurt and reeling. How do we get past this?
Please be kind, we are sick about what happened and somewhat in disbelief that we got caught up in such a ridiculous, embarrassing farce. Many hard lessons have been learned.
There are four people in this situation, at least that I know of. Three women (me, Lana, and Kim) and one man (Tom). We were all coworkers. While Tom and I became very close, for years I didn't see him as anything more than a good friend. One day he confessed to having feelings for me. I was struggling in an unhappy marriage on the brink of divorce and while I know it's no excuse, I was in a vulnerable place. We began an affair. I filed for divorce within three months of starting the affair. Not specifically for Tom, but because I knew I no longer had any feelings for my husband and the marriage was beyond saving. Because of these circumstances, we kept the affair a complete secret.
Several months past my divorce, Tom began acting strangely. He was less affectionate and suddenly too busy to see me much. Due to the sneaking around we had done together, I recognized that something was suspect about his behavior (I guess it takes one to know one) and asked him to explain what was up. He was defensive, especially when I asked him if he was seeing anyone else. Because he seemed genuinely hurt by the implication, I took him at his word that he was busy and stressed by his job. He also mentioned that Lana was starting to ask questions about the two of us, and that she might blow our cover so we'd have to be more careful and tone things down.
Things continued to decline with Tom over the next 8 months or so. Enough time had elapsed since my divorce that I would've liked to make our relationship official and public. But he said he wasn't ready to jump into a serious relationship and that really hurt. By then Tom and I had been carrying on for over a year so clearly it wasn't more time that he needed. I ended things. I took a job at another company and began trying to date other people. In truth, I was absolutely heartbroken, but also figured that the relationship had started on such treacherous footing that it wasn't meant to work out.
Tom insisted we stay friends. He gave me a whole song and dance about how important my friendship was to him. So, despite how painful it was for me to stay in contact, I did my best. I really did miss him as a friend. Not long after, I caught the smallest clue in something he said to me and I instinctively knew that he was interested in another coworker, Kim. Sure enough, shortly after that conversation, he and Kim were officially a couple. I could feel it in my gut that he and Kim had something going on well before they went public, as Kim also had a boyfriend who was suddenly out of the picture. I had the sick realization that he was probably already working his way into a relationship with her even as he was still with me, and she may have been the reason for the change I'd noticed in his behavior. Tom denied it all. I told him I didn't believe him and we were completely done, not friends, not anything.
Tom took a transfer to another city and he and Kim moved away together. In the following few years, Lana and I became really good friends. One day we were talking about work and she mentioned Tom. I caved and told her everything. I wasn't prepared for what she said next. She told me that she couldn't believe it, but she had the exact same experience with Tom and she'd been holding on to the secret for years too. Lana had also been struggling with the ending of her long term relationship when Tom swooped in. She and Tom began a secret affair, she broke it off with her boyfriend, and then not long after she began to suspect that he was also involved with Kim. She ended things with Tom in much the same fashion as I did.
We compared timelines and realized that right when I noticed Tom starting to act strangely with me was when his affair with Lana began. Lana said she also suspected that he was interested in me, which is why she asked him about us. Of course he denied everything to her. And on the flipside, he brought up Lana's suspicions to me to convince me to tone things down, in order to have more time to spend with Lana. Lana had also questioned him about Kim, and he lied to Lana about that as well. Lana broke things off with Tom at almost the exact same time that I did. We are almost completely certain that he was playing games with and sleeping with all three of us women at the same time.
Lana and I have spent the past week going through various stages of sadness and anger. I should note that neither of us hold any ill will against each other, all of our disgust is directed squarely at Tom. Each of us thought Tom considered us a good friend, someone valuable in his life, and he treated us like we were less than human. Just playthings, objects. We are having a really hard time figuring out how to lay this to rest. We're feeling depressed and embarrassed that this happened and anxious about what we should do with the knowledge. We're losing sleep, which is probably also affecting our ability to think clearly.
Here are the things we're having some trouble with, and some points of clarification:
1. We have no intention of telling Kim about this. I barely knew her, and she and Lana are acquaintances at best. She probably wouldn't believe us, or maybe she already knew and didn't care, and we fear retaliation from Tom.
2. We've been mulling over whether or not to confront Tom, but don't know what we would say to him. Lana still has to work with him. She's been looking for a new job for a while but it's been difficult due to covid.
3. We know the high road would be to count our blessings that we dodged that bullet, be grateful that we're both in committed relationships with men who would never dream of treating a woman the way Tom treated us, and just move on without giving Tom any more of our time or energy.
4. But the thought of Tom's stupid smug face thinking that he was so clever and got away with it all, it's enough to make us want to puke.
5. I'm pretty sure Tom has not changed his ways since settling down with Kim, as he has tried reaching out to me through social media several times since his new relationship began. The last time he tried reaching out was around their one year anniversary. I told him not to contact me again and blocked all his accounts. He hasn't tried the same with Lana since they still work together.
6. Though Tom has moved away, we still share a lot of the same friends. Not much of a problem during covid, but in a year or two we may be faced with visits from Tom and Kim.
What would you do if you were in our shoes?
Please be kind, we are sick about what happened and somewhat in disbelief that we got caught up in such a ridiculous, embarrassing farce. Many hard lessons have been learned.
There are four people in this situation, at least that I know of. Three women (me, Lana, and Kim) and one man (Tom). We were all coworkers. While Tom and I became very close, for years I didn't see him as anything more than a good friend. One day he confessed to having feelings for me. I was struggling in an unhappy marriage on the brink of divorce and while I know it's no excuse, I was in a vulnerable place. We began an affair. I filed for divorce within three months of starting the affair. Not specifically for Tom, but because I knew I no longer had any feelings for my husband and the marriage was beyond saving. Because of these circumstances, we kept the affair a complete secret.
Several months past my divorce, Tom began acting strangely. He was less affectionate and suddenly too busy to see me much. Due to the sneaking around we had done together, I recognized that something was suspect about his behavior (I guess it takes one to know one) and asked him to explain what was up. He was defensive, especially when I asked him if he was seeing anyone else. Because he seemed genuinely hurt by the implication, I took him at his word that he was busy and stressed by his job. He also mentioned that Lana was starting to ask questions about the two of us, and that she might blow our cover so we'd have to be more careful and tone things down.
Things continued to decline with Tom over the next 8 months or so. Enough time had elapsed since my divorce that I would've liked to make our relationship official and public. But he said he wasn't ready to jump into a serious relationship and that really hurt. By then Tom and I had been carrying on for over a year so clearly it wasn't more time that he needed. I ended things. I took a job at another company and began trying to date other people. In truth, I was absolutely heartbroken, but also figured that the relationship had started on such treacherous footing that it wasn't meant to work out.
Tom insisted we stay friends. He gave me a whole song and dance about how important my friendship was to him. So, despite how painful it was for me to stay in contact, I did my best. I really did miss him as a friend. Not long after, I caught the smallest clue in something he said to me and I instinctively knew that he was interested in another coworker, Kim. Sure enough, shortly after that conversation, he and Kim were officially a couple. I could feel it in my gut that he and Kim had something going on well before they went public, as Kim also had a boyfriend who was suddenly out of the picture. I had the sick realization that he was probably already working his way into a relationship with her even as he was still with me, and she may have been the reason for the change I'd noticed in his behavior. Tom denied it all. I told him I didn't believe him and we were completely done, not friends, not anything.
Tom took a transfer to another city and he and Kim moved away together. In the following few years, Lana and I became really good friends. One day we were talking about work and she mentioned Tom. I caved and told her everything. I wasn't prepared for what she said next. She told me that she couldn't believe it, but she had the exact same experience with Tom and she'd been holding on to the secret for years too. Lana had also been struggling with the ending of her long term relationship when Tom swooped in. She and Tom began a secret affair, she broke it off with her boyfriend, and then not long after she began to suspect that he was also involved with Kim. She ended things with Tom in much the same fashion as I did.
We compared timelines and realized that right when I noticed Tom starting to act strangely with me was when his affair with Lana began. Lana said she also suspected that he was interested in me, which is why she asked him about us. Of course he denied everything to her. And on the flipside, he brought up Lana's suspicions to me to convince me to tone things down, in order to have more time to spend with Lana. Lana had also questioned him about Kim, and he lied to Lana about that as well. Lana broke things off with Tom at almost the exact same time that I did. We are almost completely certain that he was playing games with and sleeping with all three of us women at the same time.
Lana and I have spent the past week going through various stages of sadness and anger. I should note that neither of us hold any ill will against each other, all of our disgust is directed squarely at Tom. Each of us thought Tom considered us a good friend, someone valuable in his life, and he treated us like we were less than human. Just playthings, objects. We are having a really hard time figuring out how to lay this to rest. We're feeling depressed and embarrassed that this happened and anxious about what we should do with the knowledge. We're losing sleep, which is probably also affecting our ability to think clearly.
Here are the things we're having some trouble with, and some points of clarification:
1. We have no intention of telling Kim about this. I barely knew her, and she and Lana are acquaintances at best. She probably wouldn't believe us, or maybe she already knew and didn't care, and we fear retaliation from Tom.
2. We've been mulling over whether or not to confront Tom, but don't know what we would say to him. Lana still has to work with him. She's been looking for a new job for a while but it's been difficult due to covid.
3. We know the high road would be to count our blessings that we dodged that bullet, be grateful that we're both in committed relationships with men who would never dream of treating a woman the way Tom treated us, and just move on without giving Tom any more of our time or energy.
4. But the thought of Tom's stupid smug face thinking that he was so clever and got away with it all, it's enough to make us want to puke.
5. I'm pretty sure Tom has not changed his ways since settling down with Kim, as he has tried reaching out to me through social media several times since his new relationship began. The last time he tried reaching out was around their one year anniversary. I told him not to contact me again and blocked all his accounts. He hasn't tried the same with Lana since they still work together.
6. Though Tom has moved away, we still share a lot of the same friends. Not much of a problem during covid, but in a year or two we may be faced with visits from Tom and Kim.
What would you do if you were in our shoes?
High road is your only option. You will not get what you want from confronting Tom. Chalk it up to a couple of very difficult life lessons and move on. You can maneuver any future social engagements by ignoring him and being pleasant to Kim.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think this is a "do what feels right to you" situation.
You don't owe it to Tom to improve him, teach him a lesson, punish him, be his best friend, or anything else. You don't owe anyone else a performance of righteous anger, gratitude, serenity, being-the-bigger-person, or anything else. You definitely aren't required to blow up your social circle or anyone's job situation to break the news to Kim.
As long as you're not seriously harming anyone else — and it certainly sounds like you're not — you should take good care of yourself, however that looks for you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
You don't owe it to Tom to improve him, teach him a lesson, punish him, be his best friend, or anything else. You don't owe anyone else a performance of righteous anger, gratitude, serenity, being-the-bigger-person, or anything else. You definitely aren't required to blow up your social circle or anyone's job situation to break the news to Kim.
As long as you're not seriously harming anyone else — and it certainly sounds like you're not — you should take good care of yourself, however that looks for you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
I also think that doing nothing more than what you're doing is probably the road best calculated to keep your life peaceful. Good for you.
HOWEVER if you wake up one morning with a muse singing to you about how to turn your experience into a bestselling novel or screenplay where you wreak merry hell on Tom, hop up on out of bed and write that sh*t post haste.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:50 AM on February 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
HOWEVER if you wake up one morning with a muse singing to you about how to turn your experience into a bestselling novel or screenplay where you wreak merry hell on Tom, hop up on out of bed and write that sh*t post haste.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:50 AM on February 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
I would assume that Tom's worst nightmare would be two of his former lovers getting together to talk about him and his shortcomings. This is petty, but if I were in your shoes, I would want to make a post on social media or otherwise in a place where he's sure to see it, where you and Lana are becoming great friends and having so much fun talking about having so much in common (and maybe throw in an in-joke or a detail you know he'd recognize). Make sure there is laughter (and plausible deniability) in the post.
95% of this you can't fix, but I do think you have some wiggle room surrounding #4 on your list.
posted by knotty knots at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2021 [56 favorites]
95% of this you can't fix, but I do think you have some wiggle room surrounding #4 on your list.
posted by knotty knots at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2021 [56 favorites]
If it makes you feel any better, I've been in a very similar situation. I don't believe any of us had any big confrontation, we just all dropped him immediately. The other women are still, many years later, some of my best friends. When we gather and have drinks and his name/this story gets brought up it's only in the sense of "can you even believe what an asshole this guy was?" , no shame among any of us. With time, this will be ok. And seriously, he's awful, you dodged a bullet. Living your best life is the best revenge.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 8:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Sparky Buttons at 8:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
Agreed with the consensus that you're doing great - if you think it would be cathartic, perhaps you and Lana could bond over some sort of symbolic "Fuck Tom" event, like playing darts with a printout of his face, or print out the word "Tom" big letters and burn it - I imagine googling "breakup rituals" might come up with some ideas. But whatever you do, I'd leave Tom out of it, especially since Lana still has to work with the jerk. (Though I like knotty knots' idea)
One note: This part of your post stood out to me - Each of us thought Tom considered us a good friend, someone valuable in his life...
I used to think that if someone eventually treated me poorly (romantically or otherwise), it meant they didn't value me, and that hurt and was hard not to take personally. But I've realized from observation that some people treat others badly not because they don't value them, but because they are such shit people that they are incapable of treating people well. So, it's possible Tom did value you, but was just so lacking in decency/maturity, and he still treated you horribly regardless. So yeah, screw him, but try to not take it personally. I find this helps let go of the feelings of sadness.
posted by coffeecat at 8:30 AM on February 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
One note: This part of your post stood out to me - Each of us thought Tom considered us a good friend, someone valuable in his life...
I used to think that if someone eventually treated me poorly (romantically or otherwise), it meant they didn't value me, and that hurt and was hard not to take personally. But I've realized from observation that some people treat others badly not because they don't value them, but because they are such shit people that they are incapable of treating people well. So, it's possible Tom did value you, but was just so lacking in decency/maturity, and he still treated you horribly regardless. So yeah, screw him, but try to not take it personally. I find this helps let go of the feelings of sadness.
posted by coffeecat at 8:30 AM on February 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
You are doing the right thing to give him no more of your time and attention. Everyone reacts differently to these things, so one thing is to make it clear to Lana that you are doner than done and will not be sucked back into anything. She still works with him and has the potential for contact, and if she is not a strong willed person can get sucked back in to the drama and try sucking you back into it. Especially if there are still (valid) hurt feelings, the pull to get sucked back in will be very strong. I can totally relate to the smug face comment above and have wanted to punch a smug face myself.
In regard to the socializing thing, I find my best response to these situations to be "Hey that sounds like fun, let me check my calendar and get back to you. Who all has confirmed they can go?" If this was a secret affair, the mutual friends probably won't question why you are asking, and if you find out they are going to be there, hey sorry but that's my cousin's wedding that night.
posted by archimago at 8:58 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
In regard to the socializing thing, I find my best response to these situations to be "Hey that sounds like fun, let me check my calendar and get back to you. Who all has confirmed they can go?" If this was a secret affair, the mutual friends probably won't question why you are asking, and if you find out they are going to be there, hey sorry but that's my cousin's wedding that night.
posted by archimago at 8:58 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've been in a similar situation, too! In my case, my Lana and I finally confided in each other, chalked it up to a life experience/cautionary lesson, and have left Kim out of it. Kim is no longer in Tom's life, either, because these sorts of chickens eventually come home to roost. It has been several years now, and I sometimes see Tom or get late-night messages from him, but I just remain cordial in person and ignore the messages. It was awful and embarrassing while it was happening, but with distance it's really become tolerable.
posted by assenav at 9:04 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by assenav at 9:04 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
You will feel a mighty urge to Do Something about this, and sometimes you should because someone is in danger, but I don't think that's this situation.
You will also feel embarrassed and ashamed, because that's really common when you've been manipulated and predated upon - which you absolutely were, Tom probably pulls that "I just have to tell you about these feelings I have for you (in my pants)" every time. It always seems like the embarrassment will feel better if you get some kind of revenge, but it rarely does. Just process this entire thing as trauma and that will make you feel better.
You are free to imagine as many revenge scenarios as you like, though, when you are feeling especially stung by it. You're also free to petition the universe to offer him a little reaping to go with all his sowing. (This is a thing witches do all the time, a little "I'm not telling you what to do about it, Mysterious Whatever, but can I just file a report that this dude is a total jerk and he's going to get someone hurt?") This can be a way of "letting go", even, just to be able to go on with your life knowing that someday, somehow, he's going to earn his consequences.
(And real talk: he may be too big of a jerk right this second, but eventually he will see someone else get publicly "cancelled" and start name-searching himself, waiting for the shoe to drop, wondering if he can really take that somewhat public job or run for office or whatever without the woodwork suddenly splintering like the Kool-Aid Man has arrived.)
There are a lot of Toms in the world. They are generally very good at finding vulnerable people to exploit. I'm sorry it happened to you, but you can move on and that should be your focus.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
You will also feel embarrassed and ashamed, because that's really common when you've been manipulated and predated upon - which you absolutely were, Tom probably pulls that "I just have to tell you about these feelings I have for you (in my pants)" every time. It always seems like the embarrassment will feel better if you get some kind of revenge, but it rarely does. Just process this entire thing as trauma and that will make you feel better.
You are free to imagine as many revenge scenarios as you like, though, when you are feeling especially stung by it. You're also free to petition the universe to offer him a little reaping to go with all his sowing. (This is a thing witches do all the time, a little "I'm not telling you what to do about it, Mysterious Whatever, but can I just file a report that this dude is a total jerk and he's going to get someone hurt?") This can be a way of "letting go", even, just to be able to go on with your life knowing that someday, somehow, he's going to earn his consequences.
(And real talk: he may be too big of a jerk right this second, but eventually he will see someone else get publicly "cancelled" and start name-searching himself, waiting for the shoe to drop, wondering if he can really take that somewhat public job or run for office or whatever without the woodwork suddenly splintering like the Kool-Aid Man has arrived.)
There are a lot of Toms in the world. They are generally very good at finding vulnerable people to exploit. I'm sorry it happened to you, but you can move on and that should be your focus.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
You've received several great and nuanced responses. If it's any consolation, the Tom who did his Tom-thing in my local theatre group in the mid-80s is now a rather sad, lonely old man who is universally hailed as “Fuck off, Tom”.
posted by scruss at 10:05 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by scruss at 10:05 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don’t know, man, I agree that taking the high road might be the ideal scenario, but honestly? Don’t burn down his house or anything, but if either or both of you want to write him a furiously nasty email saying all the terrible true things about him you want to express, or invite him out to a bar to “catch up” and then jointly fill his ears with information about what a shit he is... it seems to me you can do that? Like, sure, embracing anger long term is like swallowing poison and expecting someone else to die, but in the short term, it can feel good to spit some of it out. I agree that a) if you’re holding into thoughts of him responding in any particular way, you’re unlikely to be satisfied and b) Lana especially needs to be careful regarding the workplace situation. But realistically, sometimes when I think back over people who treated me badly, and the time and energy I spent processing it and talking about it with my friends and writing letters in my journal I didn’t allow myself to send because I was so hung up on the idea of behaving “well”...I kinda think my time would’ve been better spent just firing off a nasty, unfair, YOU FULLY SUCK email, blocking the person, and moving on.
(You should probably trust the advice from the high road people, though.)
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:11 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
(You should probably trust the advice from the high road people, though.)
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:11 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
You mention retaliation from Tom, and for that reason you might look into whether your company has policies about in-office relationships. Given that men generally benefit from more power, believability, and resilience in workplace settings, I'd let that guide some of my actions. At least understand what happens if personal relationships result in professional retaliation.
1.) People will advise you not to contact Kim to tell her. Mostly I agree. I wouldn't reach out to her specifically for this. It's true Kim is not your responsibility. But this "take the high road and move on" advice usually means that the Lanas of the world start lying by omission and hiding their experiences, especially when there are overlapping social circles. The advice is meant to protect you from being That Crazy B*tch, but I believe that protective instinct is rooted in sexism, and in reality what happens is you are now burdened with That Thing You Have to Avoid Talking About. So should the situation present itself, I see no problem in talking about your relationship with Tom in front of Kim, what you and Lana found out, etc. Keeping quiet to 'protect Kim's feelings' is more accurately being co-opted by Tom (and our culture) to keep his secrets and help him carry on his bad behavior. It's not your job to help keep Tom's secrets because you weren't willingly entrusted with them and they're not your secrets.
Every woman I've ever asked about wanting to know about this kind of behavior says she would want to know. Every. One. Whether or not she would believe, or believe on the spot is another thing but it begins to level the playing field with the Toms of the world. If Kim encounters three separate women who all say, "Oh, you're seeing Tom? Hunh. I had a bad experience with him where he lied repeatedly about seeing other women. I hope he's changed," Kim can choose to do whatever she wants with the info. She will sift, weigh, consider it against who you are, who she is, what's at stake for her, and what she knows of Tom.
2.) Agreed, don't waste time directly with Tom. You don't need his permission for action or inaction, nor are you likely to get anything but misery or fury from interacting with him. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's doing it intentionally. He's not going to change his ways or be gracious to you about it.
5.) Yes, this is the behavior of a real user. Strategic, sneaky, entitled testing for opportunity. Ignore.
6.) Again, visits from Tom and Kim do not require you to lie by omission in order to help him maintain his lies. You and Lana could be in their presence and very reasonably refer to the time you were dating, and what you and Lana realized about the overlap, significant lying, and sneaking around. It's a fact of your past together. Or if Kim suggests the four of you get together, you are totally allowed to say, "Neither Lana nor I want to spend time with Tom after he lied to us, but we'd love to see you." Nor do you need to protect your shared friends from Tom's lies. If these are friends you shoot the sh*t with, then if stuff like this comes up you don't have to hide it.
None of this has to mean you're being sucked back in. None of it is drama seeking. It's just you being honest about experiences, choices, and boundaries.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:30 AM on February 26, 2021 [20 favorites]
1.) People will advise you not to contact Kim to tell her. Mostly I agree. I wouldn't reach out to her specifically for this. It's true Kim is not your responsibility. But this "take the high road and move on" advice usually means that the Lanas of the world start lying by omission and hiding their experiences, especially when there are overlapping social circles. The advice is meant to protect you from being That Crazy B*tch, but I believe that protective instinct is rooted in sexism, and in reality what happens is you are now burdened with That Thing You Have to Avoid Talking About. So should the situation present itself, I see no problem in talking about your relationship with Tom in front of Kim, what you and Lana found out, etc. Keeping quiet to 'protect Kim's feelings' is more accurately being co-opted by Tom (and our culture) to keep his secrets and help him carry on his bad behavior. It's not your job to help keep Tom's secrets because you weren't willingly entrusted with them and they're not your secrets.
Every woman I've ever asked about wanting to know about this kind of behavior says she would want to know. Every. One. Whether or not she would believe, or believe on the spot is another thing but it begins to level the playing field with the Toms of the world. If Kim encounters three separate women who all say, "Oh, you're seeing Tom? Hunh. I had a bad experience with him where he lied repeatedly about seeing other women. I hope he's changed," Kim can choose to do whatever she wants with the info. She will sift, weigh, consider it against who you are, who she is, what's at stake for her, and what she knows of Tom.
2.) Agreed, don't waste time directly with Tom. You don't need his permission for action or inaction, nor are you likely to get anything but misery or fury from interacting with him. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's doing it intentionally. He's not going to change his ways or be gracious to you about it.
5.) Yes, this is the behavior of a real user. Strategic, sneaky, entitled testing for opportunity. Ignore.
6.) Again, visits from Tom and Kim do not require you to lie by omission in order to help him maintain his lies. You and Lana could be in their presence and very reasonably refer to the time you were dating, and what you and Lana realized about the overlap, significant lying, and sneaking around. It's a fact of your past together. Or if Kim suggests the four of you get together, you are totally allowed to say, "Neither Lana nor I want to spend time with Tom after he lied to us, but we'd love to see you." Nor do you need to protect your shared friends from Tom's lies. If these are friends you shoot the sh*t with, then if stuff like this comes up you don't have to hide it.
None of this has to mean you're being sucked back in. None of it is drama seeking. It's just you being honest about experiences, choices, and boundaries.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:30 AM on February 26, 2021 [20 favorites]
Kim deserves to know she's probably being cheated on.
posted by stormyteal at 10:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by stormyteal at 10:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
To redirect about Kim:
I mean, yes, she probably deserves to know the truth about Tom and your past. However - I don't necessarily think this means that you and Lana should surprise her with, like, an intervention or anything, or send her a letter discussing your concerns, especially if you don't know Kim all that well. That could backfire.
But if Kim reaches out to you to ask how things were with y'all, then...yeah, be honest. Especially if she says the reason she's reaching out is because "he's acting a little weird and distant...did he do that with you?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:15 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I mean, yes, she probably deserves to know the truth about Tom and your past. However - I don't necessarily think this means that you and Lana should surprise her with, like, an intervention or anything, or send her a letter discussing your concerns, especially if you don't know Kim all that well. That could backfire.
But if Kim reaches out to you to ask how things were with y'all, then...yeah, be honest. Especially if she says the reason she's reaching out is because "he's acting a little weird and distant...did he do that with you?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:15 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I agree with posters that you should not reach out/put any effort into telling Kim your suspicions, nor should you cover for Tom if the topic arises. Share whatever you're comfortable with sharing, don't lie for him.
Fwiw, based on the details you have shared, i think that you are correct in characterizing Tom to be a serial cheater with a pattern of crappy relationship behavior. No, you aren't innocent in all this and I'm sure that's something you are grappling with also, but I've known more than one person who are remarkably similar to your description of Tom and they were narcissistic, manipulative assholes who treated women like a game. If he was in love with Kim, he would be fricking blocking you on social media, not trying to reach out to see if he can pull you back in. I would call this the difference between a poor judgment call (you) and poor character (him).
posted by DTMFA at 1:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Fwiw, based on the details you have shared, i think that you are correct in characterizing Tom to be a serial cheater with a pattern of crappy relationship behavior. No, you aren't innocent in all this and I'm sure that's something you are grappling with also, but I've known more than one person who are remarkably similar to your description of Tom and they were narcissistic, manipulative assholes who treated women like a game. If he was in love with Kim, he would be fricking blocking you on social media, not trying to reach out to see if he can pull you back in. I would call this the difference between a poor judgment call (you) and poor character (him).
posted by DTMFA at 1:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
If it’s any comfort, I’m pretty sure your current excellent approach is hurting him. He wants to be your friend and worm his way back into your mind and you’re refusing. I’m guessing he knows you and Lana are buddies, and one of the reasons he wants to friend you is to try and get a little control over that somehow. Knowing that the pair of you might be talking about him, saying whatever you damn well like about him, and there’s nothing at all he can do about it, is driving him crazy.
Also, you’re not going to tell Kim because you’re nice people, but he doesn’t know that because he’s shitty and in his world, that’s the kind of thing people do. The thought of you two turning up on his doorstep together to visit him and Kim is also driving him crazy.
I’m raising my G&T to you and Lana right now and I think you should watch Thelma and Louise together someday if you haven’t already.
If it helps to know that.
posted by penguin pie at 3:41 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Also, you’re not going to tell Kim because you’re nice people, but he doesn’t know that because he’s shitty and in his world, that’s the kind of thing people do. The thought of you two turning up on his doorstep together to visit him and Kim is also driving him crazy.
I’m raising my G&T to you and Lana right now and I think you should watch Thelma and Louise together someday if you haven’t already.
If it helps to know that.
posted by penguin pie at 3:41 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Kim deserves to know she's probably being cheated on.
Right. Would you have wanted someone to tell you about Tom during your relationship with him?
posted by medusa at 7:05 PM on February 26, 2021
Right. Would you have wanted someone to tell you about Tom during your relationship with him?
posted by medusa at 7:05 PM on February 26, 2021
What may make it easier is if you don’t bond with Lana too long or too hard over this—nurture the other parts of your friendship. Otherwise you’re giving Tom too much airtime and keeping the melodrama alive.
Watch The Girl on the Train for catharsis. It’s not great but that Tom gets what’s coming to him.
posted by kapers at 8:25 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Watch The Girl on the Train for catharsis. It’s not great but that Tom gets what’s coming to him.
posted by kapers at 8:25 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
If I were in your situation I would;
1) Be really, really brutally honest with myself and make absolutely sure I am not subconsciously addicted to the drama of this situation. If what you truely want is to just get on with your life I would move on to step two.
2) Go on as normal until Tom made another attempt to contact me. At which point I would firmly (but with out anger) spell it out for him. "Tom, I don't know what makes you think I want any kind of contact with you ever again, but I assure you that I do not. You seem to have mistaken me for someone who values herself so little that she would welcome a dishonest ex who has proven himself to be serial relationship cheater into her life as a friend. Again, you are completely incorrect in this assumption. This will be the last and only time I will ask you nicely never to contact me again. There's absolutely nothing here for you. Goodbye."
3) Refuse to engage in any further discussion with Tom about any of this. He may try to question the repeat cheater thing but don't explain. He knows what he did and now he knows you know, don't give him the chance to gasslight you. Let him stew in his own agony about what you and Lana may or may not have told each other/discovered about him. Believe me he will stew and he will be misserable. You will have your revenge and your last word and the high road.
4)Move on with your life.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:23 PM on February 27, 2021
1) Be really, really brutally honest with myself and make absolutely sure I am not subconsciously addicted to the drama of this situation. If what you truely want is to just get on with your life I would move on to step two.
2) Go on as normal until Tom made another attempt to contact me. At which point I would firmly (but with out anger) spell it out for him. "Tom, I don't know what makes you think I want any kind of contact with you ever again, but I assure you that I do not. You seem to have mistaken me for someone who values herself so little that she would welcome a dishonest ex who has proven himself to be serial relationship cheater into her life as a friend. Again, you are completely incorrect in this assumption. This will be the last and only time I will ask you nicely never to contact me again. There's absolutely nothing here for you. Goodbye."
3) Refuse to engage in any further discussion with Tom about any of this. He may try to question the repeat cheater thing but don't explain. He knows what he did and now he knows you know, don't give him the chance to gasslight you. Let him stew in his own agony about what you and Lana may or may not have told each other/discovered about him. Believe me he will stew and he will be misserable. You will have your revenge and your last word and the high road.
4)Move on with your life.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:23 PM on February 27, 2021
When something similar happened to me, the other woman and I burned him down in public.
I highly recommend it. I felt better, she felt better, and we neutered him in our community from being able to operate in our community.
Men like him thrive on women being embarrassed about being taken advantage of. He’s in the wrong and he deserves whatever’s coming to him.
posted by Medieval Maven at 12:30 PM on February 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
I highly recommend it. I felt better, she felt better, and we neutered him in our community from being able to operate in our community.
Men like him thrive on women being embarrassed about being taken advantage of. He’s in the wrong and he deserves whatever’s coming to him.
posted by Medieval Maven at 12:30 PM on February 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
1. Confronting Kim would be a mistake for exactly the reasons you suspect, but also because she is not your responsibility.
2. Confronting Tom won't bring you any closure because he is a DICK from HELL, and he will almost certainly find a way to rationalize things in his head in such a way that he absolves himself. Mind you, if he tries to approach YOU to pick you up, smack him down with extreme prejudice, but otherwise, he's not worth your time.
3. Yes, remind yourself that you dodged a bullet and you're in a better place. Maybe bond with Lana over what a dick he is.
4. Even if Tom is thinking he "got away with it all"....consider, what exactly did he get away with? He pissed off you and Lana, two amazing women, and lost their trust - all for the sake of some orgasms, each of which probably only lasted him a few seconds each. That's, like, a kid who is patting himself on the back for "getting away with" stealing the Chips Ahoy out of his mother's cookie jar - which prompts his mother to change her mind about baking the kid the Triple-Decker Marshmallow-Frosted Chocolate-S'Mores Cake she would have made if he'd just behaved himself. ....Tom lost out in the long run.
5. You made it clear when Tom reached out to you that you don't want him to contact you. That's wise.
6. If Tom and Kim are in town, and you are surprised by them at some event, be cordial (if a bit chilly) and spend all your time talking to everyone else. Let them ask Tom why you're acting distant towards, him, and let HIM sweat over how to explain it. (Correct the record if Tom tells them a weird-ass story that your friends then ask you about, but otherwise let Tom worry about how to explain things because that's not your problem.) If Tom and Kim invite you somewhere, plead to being busy and turn them down.
You're handling this right already. Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:19 AM on February 26, 2021 [17 favorites]