How to build up a social circle from... zero
February 24, 2021 4:41 PM Subscribe
I'm in my early 30s and, embarrassingly, don't have a lot of friends. I don't have much family, either. Over the past few months, I've really thought a lot about my life and what I need to change. I really need to put the effort in to create strong social bonds with people and make new (hopefully long lasting friends), but... I don't know where to begin. Has anyone done this from scratch?
I know COVID-19 throws a big wrench into this, but I'd still like advice. Especially if this is something you were able to do.
I grew up in a small family as an only child. My father died 4 years ago, mother's mentally ill, etc. I'm not close at all with my father's siblings (I can count the amount of times they've contacted me since he died on one hand). My mother isn't close to her family for a variety of reasons, mostly due to geography and her illness. I don't think I realized how *alone* I was until my father died.
After he died, I just worked and went to grad school. I had a hard time opening up and making new friends there. As a teenager and in my 20s I had a lot of social-anxiety, but I'm working on that now and it's gotten a lot better. I just found it easier to NOT be social. I did manage to pick up situational friends here and there. At the moment, I'd say that I have no close friends. A few former coworkers I chit chat with now and then on Facebook Messenger, but not much beyond that. Yes, it's pathetic. I know.
Well... this has to change. I just can't be "ALONE" forever. I need to go out (when covid is over) and seriously put the effort in to making new friends, friends that will be lasting friends in the future. However... ugh... where do I begin? I feel afraid to make friends (ugh, social anxiety) due to the fact that like... just due to my circumstances, I'll need to rely on my friends more than my family (as I really have no family, other than my mother). My therapist (who's been really great) says that nothing is wrong with that, some people have families that are unreliable and need to rely on their friends more than some other people.
It made me feel better, but it still makes me feel like... I guess... a burden? I feel so sad and embarrassed that I don't have a family, you know? Like. I'm really afraid of dying alone, as per my last question! That's a future I really want to avoid for myself! I just don't know WHERE to begin. It feels like I've doomed myself to a lonely life of isolation, someone who'd be lucky to be found a after I die at all! Hopefully, I'm not going to die within the next few years, so... I need to work on changing that!!
I did find it easier to make new friends when I had to move to a new city for work last year. Well, due to COVID-19 it wasn't that easy, but there was something about OTHER PEOPLE knowing that I had no friends/family there... made it easier for me to connect with them? Like, I HAD TO rely on them in this new city to "survive" (well, not really, but you get my point). Who knows where my next job will be, so that might not be an option.
It's just overwhelming to start from ZERO as someone in their 30s to create something that the vast majority of people on this planet just... have!
For example, it makes me so depressed that ever since my father died, I have no one to put on my emergency contact list. I put my mother, I mean, she's not the most reliable person... but ya gotta put someone and I have no one else! It really makes me feel so shitty.
If you were ever in a similar circumstance and had to create a new social circle (with strong friendships) from scratch, how did you do it? What worked, what didn't? It's not too late, is it?
I know COVID-19 throws a big wrench into this, but I'd still like advice. Especially if this is something you were able to do.
I grew up in a small family as an only child. My father died 4 years ago, mother's mentally ill, etc. I'm not close at all with my father's siblings (I can count the amount of times they've contacted me since he died on one hand). My mother isn't close to her family for a variety of reasons, mostly due to geography and her illness. I don't think I realized how *alone* I was until my father died.
After he died, I just worked and went to grad school. I had a hard time opening up and making new friends there. As a teenager and in my 20s I had a lot of social-anxiety, but I'm working on that now and it's gotten a lot better. I just found it easier to NOT be social. I did manage to pick up situational friends here and there. At the moment, I'd say that I have no close friends. A few former coworkers I chit chat with now and then on Facebook Messenger, but not much beyond that. Yes, it's pathetic. I know.
Well... this has to change. I just can't be "ALONE" forever. I need to go out (when covid is over) and seriously put the effort in to making new friends, friends that will be lasting friends in the future. However... ugh... where do I begin? I feel afraid to make friends (ugh, social anxiety) due to the fact that like... just due to my circumstances, I'll need to rely on my friends more than my family (as I really have no family, other than my mother). My therapist (who's been really great) says that nothing is wrong with that, some people have families that are unreliable and need to rely on their friends more than some other people.
It made me feel better, but it still makes me feel like... I guess... a burden? I feel so sad and embarrassed that I don't have a family, you know? Like. I'm really afraid of dying alone, as per my last question! That's a future I really want to avoid for myself! I just don't know WHERE to begin. It feels like I've doomed myself to a lonely life of isolation, someone who'd be lucky to be found a after I die at all! Hopefully, I'm not going to die within the next few years, so... I need to work on changing that!!
I did find it easier to make new friends when I had to move to a new city for work last year. Well, due to COVID-19 it wasn't that easy, but there was something about OTHER PEOPLE knowing that I had no friends/family there... made it easier for me to connect with them? Like, I HAD TO rely on them in this new city to "survive" (well, not really, but you get my point). Who knows where my next job will be, so that might not be an option.
It's just overwhelming to start from ZERO as someone in their 30s to create something that the vast majority of people on this planet just... have!
For example, it makes me so depressed that ever since my father died, I have no one to put on my emergency contact list. I put my mother, I mean, she's not the most reliable person... but ya gotta put someone and I have no one else! It really makes me feel so shitty.
If you were ever in a similar circumstance and had to create a new social circle (with strong friendships) from scratch, how did you do it? What worked, what didn't? It's not too late, is it?
What do you like? (To do, but even just what media/etc. you enjoy?) Start finding the people who share those interests in your area. How do you do that? I started volunteering in my late 20s for a small con (well, it's not really a "con" in a traditional sense but close enough) that was in my area & met a lot of local people that way. I did that for several years. And since we all had to work together on this thing and we shared and a common interest in the subject matter, we all had a reason to interact and something in common built in. I'm no longer involved with that particular event but several of those people are my really close friends. (I also knew no one involved with this thing when I first volunteered -- I get that I just got lucky in a lot of ways.)
I also made a lot of friends because a bunch of us would end up at the same comic book store on Wednesday nights & then we all started going out to dinner. And now we have a really complicated Discord server since we can't all interact in person.
I also found a lot of people on Twitter who were local and shared my interests and many have become good friends. I think interacting in a pretty low-stakes way at first was helpful in establishing a common ground before I met these people in person (and I mean, I also get meeting people in person isn't exactly ideal right now anyway).
Not everyone who likes the thing you like is going to be someone you want to hang out with, but they may know someone who knows someone who does (I have definitely become friends with friends of friends, and in one case, one of my friends became better friends with my friend-of-a-friend and that was just delightful!).
And yeah, friend dates are great! (Also not ideal right now.) I've definitely had a few that didn't turn into much but also, it's nice to say "hey, I'm going to this thing and I think you'd also enjoy this thing" and just seeing what happens.
If Twitter makes you uncomfortable, find the social media platform that doesn't. It does take time to find your community, but it's out there. (Also, be happy to make friends that are older than younger than you are. I am 40 and I have friends in their late 20s and friends in their 70s and every age in between. I think this makes my life richer and more interesting.)
Good luck! It's not easy, but it's completely doable.
posted by edencosmic at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I also made a lot of friends because a bunch of us would end up at the same comic book store on Wednesday nights & then we all started going out to dinner. And now we have a really complicated Discord server since we can't all interact in person.
I also found a lot of people on Twitter who were local and shared my interests and many have become good friends. I think interacting in a pretty low-stakes way at first was helpful in establishing a common ground before I met these people in person (and I mean, I also get meeting people in person isn't exactly ideal right now anyway).
Not everyone who likes the thing you like is going to be someone you want to hang out with, but they may know someone who knows someone who does (I have definitely become friends with friends of friends, and in one case, one of my friends became better friends with my friend-of-a-friend and that was just delightful!).
And yeah, friend dates are great! (Also not ideal right now.) I've definitely had a few that didn't turn into much but also, it's nice to say "hey, I'm going to this thing and I think you'd also enjoy this thing" and just seeing what happens.
If Twitter makes you uncomfortable, find the social media platform that doesn't. It does take time to find your community, but it's out there. (Also, be happy to make friends that are older than younger than you are. I am 40 and I have friends in their late 20s and friends in their 70s and every age in between. I think this makes my life richer and more interesting.)
Good luck! It's not easy, but it's completely doable.
posted by edencosmic at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
There are all sorts of weird and wonderful little geeky groups of people doing all kinds of different things, just about everywhere. Many of those people will have felt like you, anxious and awkward and lonely. Often it's easier to connect around a shared enthusiasm, and slowly expand from there. Think about some activity, or craft, or gaming thing, or sport, or whatever, that you would like to try. Find a local group, or club, or local community college course, and drag yourself along. The expectations in terms of you being outgoing and confident will be low, so you can choose how much interaction you're comfortable with. Just getting out there among other people, in a low-stakes situation, will radically improve your odds of connecting with people. I know it's easier said than done, but that's some stuff I'd like to tell my 30-year-old self.
posted by pipeski at 5:23 PM on February 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 5:23 PM on February 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have moved repeatedly as an adult and had to start from scratch. My personal hacks are: find the local UU church: join the choir. Audition for the first play or musical that isn't totally awful. Then, reciprocate any social overtures that aren't aggressively off-putting and accept event invitations if possible. Also, if you see someone having a need, offer to fill it (e.g ride to a thing, technology help, shortening pants, whatever skill or asset you have) This is a good way for the socially awkward to move friendships forward.
These may not be your jam, but the key ingredients are:
Prolonged contact with the same group of people
Activity-centered and scheduled, so you don't have to put effort into deciding what to do, or when to do it. Bonus: automatic conversation topic.
Not so activity-centered that there's no time to form relationships.
Also, people in both these communities kind of expect that they'll have or make friends within them.
All very hard to do in COVID times, but you can do your recon now, so you can show up right at the start of things starting back up.
posted by DebetEsse at 5:27 PM on February 24, 2021 [24 favorites]
These may not be your jam, but the key ingredients are:
Prolonged contact with the same group of people
Activity-centered and scheduled, so you don't have to put effort into deciding what to do, or when to do it. Bonus: automatic conversation topic.
Not so activity-centered that there's no time to form relationships.
Also, people in both these communities kind of expect that they'll have or make friends within them.
All very hard to do in COVID times, but you can do your recon now, so you can show up right at the start of things starting back up.
posted by DebetEsse at 5:27 PM on February 24, 2021 [24 favorites]
I would look for a life adventure that is tough, unusual, and size-limited enough to serve as a bonding experience. There is a sweet spot of things that a. are time limited and/or especially intense, and b. tend to involve a consistent and mid-size group of people. Some of it will be luck, of course. But there's little else that will get you some friendship "starter dough," as quick or fast as this kind of experience. (Volunteering in general never went well for me, in part because that tends to be either diffuse and sprawling, with lots of one-time or very inconsistent members...or uselessly small in terms of both social impact and personal interactions. Meetups and classes were similar, at least in my area.)
I was in a position to go to grad school, so that's what I did. But other ideas might include: taking a spiritual/religious retreat, going on a group backpacking trip (or trip to some other remote or odd location), joining a competitive team for an unusual sport or type of singing or some other talent, volunteering to work on a student/amateur/local film, joining a (serious, functional) community theater group, attending animal rights vigils (like pig save) on a regular basis, joining a sex-positive or sexual experience group (unlikely to be admitted if you are a cis straight man though), taking a serious/structured writing workshop, or joining a local team for a political party (that has subcommittees you can work on).
COVID definitely does make this problematic. But COVID won't be forever, and there are probably some things still going on. If not, you can still be planning and thinking about how to approach this once it's safe.
If you're female or something like it, you can also join dating sites and say you are looking for platonic friends. (Menlike people can do this too, it's just that the straighter and cis-er you are, the less anyone will believe you on the "friends" score.) Be prepared to have to delete/ignore a lot of requests that either don't read profiles or don't care. And of course, you have to do the emotional work of weighing whether nice-seeming strangers are being honest with you about their intentions. (If you feel at all weird while chatting, just block them immediately; the stakes are so low. I know there's a perpetual tug to be nice to men, and let them keep talking to you, because "what if they get mad?" But on the internet, where you're physically separate and semi-anonymous, this protective impulse isn't as helpful.)
posted by desert outpost at 5:31 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I was in a position to go to grad school, so that's what I did. But other ideas might include: taking a spiritual/religious retreat, going on a group backpacking trip (or trip to some other remote or odd location), joining a competitive team for an unusual sport or type of singing or some other talent, volunteering to work on a student/amateur/local film, joining a (serious, functional) community theater group, attending animal rights vigils (like pig save) on a regular basis, joining a sex-positive or sexual experience group (unlikely to be admitted if you are a cis straight man though), taking a serious/structured writing workshop, or joining a local team for a political party (that has subcommittees you can work on).
COVID definitely does make this problematic. But COVID won't be forever, and there are probably some things still going on. If not, you can still be planning and thinking about how to approach this once it's safe.
If you're female or something like it, you can also join dating sites and say you are looking for platonic friends. (Menlike people can do this too, it's just that the straighter and cis-er you are, the less anyone will believe you on the "friends" score.) Be prepared to have to delete/ignore a lot of requests that either don't read profiles or don't care. And of course, you have to do the emotional work of weighing whether nice-seeming strangers are being honest with you about their intentions. (If you feel at all weird while chatting, just block them immediately; the stakes are so low. I know there's a perpetual tug to be nice to men, and let them keep talking to you, because "what if they get mad?" But on the internet, where you're physically separate and semi-anonymous, this protective impulse isn't as helpful.)
posted by desert outpost at 5:31 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I am also not a natural friend-maker, social anxiety, introversion, etc. What works best for me is joining groups based around an activity. For me it’s music and theater, but other possibilities might be something like board games or gardening or cooking. Book club, maybe. The activity takes some of the social pressure off because you don’t get those awkward, painful silences where you’re trying to think of what to talk about. (The downside, of course, is the situation I find myself in now where it’s a struggle to keep in touch with the friends I’ve made, without being able to do the activity.)
Another thought, which of course would not be everybody’s cup of tea, is Unitarian society meetings. You get all the social benefits of church without needing to believe (or feign believing) in a particular deity.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:34 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Another thought, which of course would not be everybody’s cup of tea, is Unitarian society meetings. You get all the social benefits of church without needing to believe (or feign believing) in a particular deity.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:34 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Adding that another reason I'd especially recommend something time-limited is that, if you are anything like me, knowing there's a specific goal makes it more likely you won't get nervous or uncertain, and quit after two or three sessions of an activity. A lot of friendship-making involves spending a lot of time with people you aren't sure about at first, doing things that didn't necessarily seem very fun when you started.
posted by desert outpost at 5:35 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by desert outpost at 5:35 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I literally joined, and later helped organize, a Meetup group called Females for Friendship. Everyone in the group was in your basic situation - I had switched from a job that included a social life to remote working - and was actively looking to make friends.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:39 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 5:39 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Go look up Shasta Nelson, she writes very well on how friendship works and how to develop it.
My suggestion is that you need to hang out with people on a regular basis for friendship to develop. Meeting someone I liked as a one-off with no other connections or anything to bring us together hasn't worked out. So if we're ever out of the pandemic, I'd try to look for classes to do or any other recurring experience like a D&D game, volunteer job, planning geek events, just anything where you see the same people on a weekly basis and get to know them. I can't say I feel like taking online classes on Zoom has quite had the same effect, though I have definitely made friends with folks over Zoom these days because we hit it off and connected later on (and kept doing it).
My suggestion for you right now is to make online friends. Online chat situations are probably best at this point. Tons of people do Facebook, or Reddit (though I dunno about that space). I am on a few Metafilter-related Slack/Discord things, but since I am not running those things I don't feel like I can extend invites. But generally speaking, looking for some kind of online community related to your interests has gone very well for me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:45 PM on February 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
My suggestion is that you need to hang out with people on a regular basis for friendship to develop. Meeting someone I liked as a one-off with no other connections or anything to bring us together hasn't worked out. So if we're ever out of the pandemic, I'd try to look for classes to do or any other recurring experience like a D&D game, volunteer job, planning geek events, just anything where you see the same people on a weekly basis and get to know them. I can't say I feel like taking online classes on Zoom has quite had the same effect, though I have definitely made friends with folks over Zoom these days because we hit it off and connected later on (and kept doing it).
My suggestion for you right now is to make online friends. Online chat situations are probably best at this point. Tons of people do Facebook, or Reddit (though I dunno about that space). I am on a few Metafilter-related Slack/Discord things, but since I am not running those things I don't feel like I can extend invites. But generally speaking, looking for some kind of online community related to your interests has gone very well for me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:45 PM on February 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Two things that did it for me was moving to a new city and meeting people at work and having children. Met a lot of dads in the same situation as me. Wife and I went on a lot of what I call man dates. Wife met the mothers at mommy and me classes and the dads were dragged along. Turns out some 25+ years later, although I am in a different city, I am still friends with 3 of the fathers. I am not suggesting you have a kid to make friends, but my point it that while living life, when you come upon people in new and similar situations as yourself, that is a good time to join forces.
posted by AugustWest at 6:02 PM on February 24, 2021
posted by AugustWest at 6:02 PM on February 24, 2021
If you like any sports you can likely find groups of strangers to play it with on your community. This would get you exposure to a whole group of new people. I made friends this way during my late 30s.
posted by creiszhanson at 6:48 PM on February 24, 2021
posted by creiszhanson at 6:48 PM on February 24, 2021
First of all, it is completely normal to have no friends. The modal American has zero friends outside immediate family. Friendships have been in steady decline in the U.S. since WWII. You're typical, not pathetic.
One solid way to make friends is to ask people for things. When we moved away from our hometowns and families, and our son needed an emergency contact at school, we sheepishly asked our next door neighbors to do it, because we had met literally no one else when we needed to provide a name. They, in turn, asked us to dogsit during vacations. They became really deep, good friends not because of mutual interests or anything, just because of mutual reliance and goodwill.
More recently, feeling lonely in pandemic times, I asked my most creative friends and acquaintances, one at a time, to help me with my loneliness and stagnation by joining a weekly creative accountability group I would create over zoom. For three months now that's been deepening my relationships and creativity with a whole group of people, and deepening their networks, too. But I had to be uncomfortably vulnerable to spark it off. (I've tried, and asking people to join your thing just for fun doesn't work in the same way as needing them to help you as a favor. Helping each other is how we bond. People need to be needed.)
Ask acquaintances whom you want to know better for favors, knowing that you're giving them permission to ask favors of you, which is a great gift. It feels vulnerable but can pay off in deep connection. When COVID is over, ask people out and go do new things, but when you meet someone you want to know more deeply, ask a favor. And then return one!
posted by shadygrove at 6:49 PM on February 24, 2021 [16 favorites]
One solid way to make friends is to ask people for things. When we moved away from our hometowns and families, and our son needed an emergency contact at school, we sheepishly asked our next door neighbors to do it, because we had met literally no one else when we needed to provide a name. They, in turn, asked us to dogsit during vacations. They became really deep, good friends not because of mutual interests or anything, just because of mutual reliance and goodwill.
More recently, feeling lonely in pandemic times, I asked my most creative friends and acquaintances, one at a time, to help me with my loneliness and stagnation by joining a weekly creative accountability group I would create over zoom. For three months now that's been deepening my relationships and creativity with a whole group of people, and deepening their networks, too. But I had to be uncomfortably vulnerable to spark it off. (I've tried, and asking people to join your thing just for fun doesn't work in the same way as needing them to help you as a favor. Helping each other is how we bond. People need to be needed.)
Ask acquaintances whom you want to know better for favors, knowing that you're giving them permission to ask favors of you, which is a great gift. It feels vulnerable but can pay off in deep connection. When COVID is over, ask people out and go do new things, but when you meet someone you want to know more deeply, ask a favor. And then return one!
posted by shadygrove at 6:49 PM on February 24, 2021 [16 favorites]
Online groups for social anxiety led to meeting in person sometimes, no shame as several of us had no other social lives. I still talk to some people daily in a group voice chat for socially anxious people. Mostly we talk about general things or films not just about how awful SA is! Meetup groups for mental health support, going to films as a group, going to concerts as a group, all were good company even though we didn't tend to meet up as friends outside the meet context. Met a couple of nice friends having tea after an exercise class in a local well-being centre. Would a support group for caregivers be appropriate for your situation, if your mum has health issues? Might you enjoy an evening class in a foreign language?
Two helpful audio books - Friending by Gina Handley Schmiddt and 400 Friends and No One To Call by Val Walker that both help people in exactly your situation. Good luck!
posted by AuroraSky at 7:15 PM on February 24, 2021
Two helpful audio books - Friending by Gina Handley Schmiddt and 400 Friends and No One To Call by Val Walker that both help people in exactly your situation. Good luck!
posted by AuroraSky at 7:15 PM on February 24, 2021
Response by poster: Thank you so much for all the replies, so far! I'm seeing if I can find the book recommendations at my public library now.
I wanted to add one more thing. I'm oddly... actually really good at superficial small-talk conversations that a lot of people despise and superficial relationships. When it comes to letting a friendship go deeper, that's when I get stuck.
posted by VirginiaPlain at 7:36 PM on February 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I wanted to add one more thing. I'm oddly... actually really good at superficial small-talk conversations that a lot of people despise and superficial relationships. When it comes to letting a friendship go deeper, that's when I get stuck.
posted by VirginiaPlain at 7:36 PM on February 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I love the advice you've received. To add a bullet point, here's my strategy. It's worked 3-4 times.
Find your local subreddit and ask if any new players want to play D&D. Vet them for Normies (not weird Reddit people) and set the session 0 at a local bar/coffee shop.
D&D is special in that you keep meeting each week with some vague commitment, and it's relatively devoid of those 35+.
I believe that the formula for real lasting friends is (times met up with each other) * (variety of meetups). So, after getting scheduling down, 5-6 sessions, including session 0, you'll be at a 12. A few more months of sessions, and the occasional holiday party or bar, and it's a high number!
That's what works for me, but local sports or hobbies have their own alure.
Last, some cities have non-toxic discord chatrooms linked to their local subreddit. Look up your local subreddit, go to the discord, and ask if there's a whitelist discord for non-creeps. That's a lot of steps but it has worked for me.
So again, think about the formula. # of times met * location and think about what that means for you. Sunday coffee Meetup, CrossFit gym, D&D, board games club, or anything along those lines.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:45 PM on February 24, 2021
Find your local subreddit and ask if any new players want to play D&D. Vet them for Normies (not weird Reddit people) and set the session 0 at a local bar/coffee shop.
D&D is special in that you keep meeting each week with some vague commitment, and it's relatively devoid of those 35+.
I believe that the formula for real lasting friends is (times met up with each other) * (variety of meetups). So, after getting scheduling down, 5-6 sessions, including session 0, you'll be at a 12. A few more months of sessions, and the occasional holiday party or bar, and it's a high number!
That's what works for me, but local sports or hobbies have their own alure.
Last, some cities have non-toxic discord chatrooms linked to their local subreddit. Look up your local subreddit, go to the discord, and ask if there's a whitelist discord for non-creeps. That's a lot of steps but it has worked for me.
So again, think about the formula. # of times met * location and think about what that means for you. Sunday coffee Meetup, CrossFit gym, D&D, board games club, or anything along those lines.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:45 PM on February 24, 2021
This might have to wait until covid calms down some more, but keep an eye out for events at your local library! I run an adult game night (or did, when we could go places and do things) at my library and discovered a lot of the attendees were in a similar position to you. (Including the social anxiety, lol -- it accidentally became Neurodivergence Club for a while there.)
Board/card games are nice in that they give you something to do with your hands/something to talk about while you're getting settled in, and dumb in-jokes are not a terrible foundation for a budding friendship.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 8:01 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Board/card games are nice in that they give you something to do with your hands/something to talk about while you're getting settled in, and dumb in-jokes are not a terrible foundation for a budding friendship.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 8:01 PM on February 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm oddly... actually really good at superficial small-talk conversations that a lot of people despise and superficial relationships. When it comes to letting a friendship go deeper, that's when I get stuck.
One small tip: It's easy to get stuck on that sort of thing, because it's what all the "win friends and influence people" type stuff says to do as far as letting people talk about themselves etc. But at a certain point people become uncomfortable if you don't reveal things about yourself too, and then they don't want to talk to you anymore. Try to at a minimum match the level of personal sharing, you can share a little bit more than the other person but don't go too much over that level.
posted by yohko at 8:36 PM on February 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
One small tip: It's easy to get stuck on that sort of thing, because it's what all the "win friends and influence people" type stuff says to do as far as letting people talk about themselves etc. But at a certain point people become uncomfortable if you don't reveal things about yourself too, and then they don't want to talk to you anymore. Try to at a minimum match the level of personal sharing, you can share a little bit more than the other person but don't go too much over that level.
posted by yohko at 8:36 PM on February 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
I would suggest you reconsider your thought that a lack of friends is "pathetic".
Friendship (like love) is work. It's something you give, and if you're lucky you get back in proportion. Maybe you didn't have the energy for it, or maybe you were burned by giving way more than you got. Whatever your reasons for keeping to yourself in the past, they were valid to you at the time. That's not pathetic, it's strategic.
Now your needs have changed and you need a new strategy. I think all of these great answers have in common to look for circumstances and activities that encourage you to give your attention and energy to other people and monitor what comes back. Beware of energy vampires and try to have fun. There is always risk involved which is why we develop protective barriers (like small talk). As Shadygrove mentioned, you may have to deal with unfamiliar feelings of vulnerability. Try not to let less than ideal outcomes stop you from trying. When it works, it's worth it.
posted by Carlo at 9:16 PM on February 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Friendship (like love) is work. It's something you give, and if you're lucky you get back in proportion. Maybe you didn't have the energy for it, or maybe you were burned by giving way more than you got. Whatever your reasons for keeping to yourself in the past, they were valid to you at the time. That's not pathetic, it's strategic.
Now your needs have changed and you need a new strategy. I think all of these great answers have in common to look for circumstances and activities that encourage you to give your attention and energy to other people and monitor what comes back. Beware of energy vampires and try to have fun. There is always risk involved which is why we develop protective barriers (like small talk). As Shadygrove mentioned, you may have to deal with unfamiliar feelings of vulnerability. Try not to let less than ideal outcomes stop you from trying. When it works, it's worth it.
posted by Carlo at 9:16 PM on February 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Same here. I tend to be a loner, and I have a lot of acquaintances but few friends. I have ONE friend whom I knew since my Uni days, but he's mainly after me to borrow $50, $100, $150 a month because he keeps spending $$$$ on frivolous stuff like Starbucks and online games. (He's got a disability and never really worked), whereas I sorta lost my job back when COVID hit hard and but usually have jobs before that. I don't keep up with former work colleagues or old bosses and such.
I don't feel I need a lot of friends to validate my social worth, so I didn't get that many. But then, I wasn't outgoing even on my best days. *shrugs* I've been told that I should at least cultivate a circle of contacts to help my job search, but so far it's not that easy, as I've been kinda pigeonholed in my career and has had NO professional contact in the tech career I'm trying to get back into. *sigh* So I am keeping track of the suggestions here.
posted by kschang at 4:49 AM on February 25, 2021
I don't feel I need a lot of friends to validate my social worth, so I didn't get that many. But then, I wasn't outgoing even on my best days. *shrugs* I've been told that I should at least cultivate a circle of contacts to help my job search, but so far it's not that easy, as I've been kinda pigeonholed in my career and has had NO professional contact in the tech career I'm trying to get back into. *sigh* So I am keeping track of the suggestions here.
posted by kschang at 4:49 AM on February 25, 2021
You are not pathetic for messaging with coworkers on facebook messenger. Jesus, do I ever understand this line of thinking. I had social anxiety too and it is insidious. Zoloft worked for me. Like, completely. I kiss the ground for my zoloft every day. TALK TO YOUR DOC!
posted by pintapicasso at 5:19 AM on February 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by pintapicasso at 5:19 AM on February 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I wanted to chime in to say that it's not too late to reach out to your family, too, if you'd like. There may be some hard feelings because they didn't initiate contact when you wanted them to, but they may have felt just as awkward as you feel now. If you want to have a relationship with your family, they may be an easy place to start. You can just start with a 'sorry we lost touch; hope you're doing well.'
posted by hydra77 at 9:17 AM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by hydra77 at 9:17 AM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Join DSA.
I don't mean to be trite - I'm sure there is personal work for you to do in therapy etc around this as well, but on a basic level I think it will help to put yourself into a setting where friendships are most likely to occur. Doing a shared project together that has meaningful stakes and that creates continuous opportunities for having emotionally intense experiences with others is the best set-up I know for building friendships as an adult.
posted by latkes at 9:23 AM on February 25, 2021
I don't mean to be trite - I'm sure there is personal work for you to do in therapy etc around this as well, but on a basic level I think it will help to put yourself into a setting where friendships are most likely to occur. Doing a shared project together that has meaningful stakes and that creates continuous opportunities for having emotionally intense experiences with others is the best set-up I know for building friendships as an adult.
posted by latkes at 9:23 AM on February 25, 2021
I have met friends at work, the dog park, Meet up groups and volunteer gigs. I recommend places you frequent so you can build a friendship over time. It is difficult right now with it being winter and Covid. If you can do outdoor exercise that's a big plus. Good luck to you
posted by DixieBaby at 9:41 AM on February 25, 2021
posted by DixieBaby at 9:41 AM on February 25, 2021
Hi! We're the same, sort of. I moved to chicago right out of college, with my girlfriend and another friend. that ended any relationships i had from high school. I cut contact with my parents. I was evicted from chicago and then broke up with my then girlfriend, bringing my total friend count to 1, my sister. I have friends now! Some of them live far away, some of them close but we can't see each other too often, but I have lasting bonds with people. Its very hard. It took about 5 years (i'm now 30). One of the biggest things that's helped is knowing there are thousands of 30-somethings just like you who would love to be your friend! you just have to try. Reach out, all the time. Even when it feels like you're bothering someone. If you are, you might break the bond, but that's okay because it wasn't meant to be stronger anyway. I met a lot of friends online, some in meetups. I tend to hang around feely-emotional queer people. I am queer, but also queer people just inherently understand that family is not a given, and are more ready and informed about making chosen family.
I will say that something that several people independently brought up that they like about me (and attributed to us building a relationship) is that I "do" things. I make things, go places, have themes. instead of just "hanging out" i invited someone to come to my house to play with watercolors. Do hoola-hoop bubbles in the summer. Plan a picnic based off a book the two of you like. Tie dye some shirts! do a scavenger hunt. I make every day an occasion. It doesn't have to be expensive, and a lot of people would feel it's too childish, but just find stuff you like and offer it to people. Where do you live? What do you like? Its so much easier to be the one doing the thing and then invite people along, rather than waiting to find someone doing something and then trying to get invited. feel free to message me :)
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:17 AM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I will say that something that several people independently brought up that they like about me (and attributed to us building a relationship) is that I "do" things. I make things, go places, have themes. instead of just "hanging out" i invited someone to come to my house to play with watercolors. Do hoola-hoop bubbles in the summer. Plan a picnic based off a book the two of you like. Tie dye some shirts! do a scavenger hunt. I make every day an occasion. It doesn't have to be expensive, and a lot of people would feel it's too childish, but just find stuff you like and offer it to people. Where do you live? What do you like? Its so much easier to be the one doing the thing and then invite people along, rather than waiting to find someone doing something and then trying to get invited. feel free to message me :)
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:17 AM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Join DSA.
latkes, I ask this not to try to argue with you but because I myself would like to find new friends in the post pandemic world and I would genuinely like to know -- What do you mean??? I tried google to answer this but there are quite a few things and your comment doesn't seem to provide enough context to narrow down which one.
Democratic Socialists of America? (Not trite, and only seems helpful if OP is in USA, doesn't seem like what you meant?)
Direct Selling Association? (meaningful stakes, check!)
Division of Student Affairs? (OP doesn't mention being in college but otherwise seems like a good fit?)
Das Schwarze Auge (German adventure role-playing game)? (I've never heard of this one before but a lot of people seem to make friends playing RPGs, and usually use acronyms to describe them... German games are popular... seems like the most likely thing you meant but not sure??)
Department of Student Activities? (seems like a setting where friendships are likely to occur, maybe only helpful for those in college but could always take a class or two?)
Edit: forgot italics on quote
posted by yohko at 12:53 PM on February 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
latkes, I ask this not to try to argue with you but because I myself would like to find new friends in the post pandemic world and I would genuinely like to know -- What do you mean??? I tried google to answer this but there are quite a few things and your comment doesn't seem to provide enough context to narrow down which one.
Democratic Socialists of America? (Not trite, and only seems helpful if OP is in USA, doesn't seem like what you meant?)
Direct Selling Association? (meaningful stakes, check!)
Division of Student Affairs? (OP doesn't mention being in college but otherwise seems like a good fit?)
Das Schwarze Auge (German adventure role-playing game)? (I've never heard of this one before but a lot of people seem to make friends playing RPGs, and usually use acronyms to describe them... German games are popular... seems like the most likely thing you meant but not sure??)
Department of Student Activities? (seems like a setting where friendships are likely to occur, maybe only helpful for those in college but could always take a class or two?)
Edit: forgot italics on quote
posted by yohko at 12:53 PM on February 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Group activities, based around hobbies, which give you a large number of people to start with, something obvious to talk about, and something in common that you can use to develop friendships further. Volunteering works too.
So, eg. you volunteer to help backstage with a local youth theatre. In the break, you chat with another volunteer and ask if they've seen anything good at the theatre recently, compare notes on what you like seeing. It's a nice conversation, and you both enjoy it. Probably a few weeks of that go by. Then next time you see something you fancy coming on at the theatre, you mention it to her and say "Hey, I think I'm going to book and see [show], do you fancy coming?" When you go to the theatre, you can still get by with enthusiastic small talk, you don't need to switch instantly into 'deep friendship' mode. Carry on like this for a few months, enjoying volunteering together and maybe meeting up every few weeks. Don't be afraid to suggest things, make it sound like you're probably going to do it anyway and they're welcome to join so it's low pressure (and, in fact, do it anyway even if they can't come!). Gradually the friendship will deepen of its own accord as you learn little tidbits about each others' lives - remember what she had coming up last time you saw her and ask how it went. I think the key to deepending friendships is mostly persistence and patience. It doesn't just suddenly happen, you don't have to suddenly flip a switch and start to relate differently, but you gradually get a little more entwined with each other by gradually spending time together.
When I last moved to a new city I started climbing even though I wasn't that keen on it, just because all the climbers I'd met seemed to be the kind of people I got on well with. Climbing sessions adjourned to the pub and I got to know folk better. I don't climb any more, but I still have the people. Rinse and repeat for several hobbies over time and you build up a social circle. Good luck!
posted by penguin pie at 1:02 PM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
So, eg. you volunteer to help backstage with a local youth theatre. In the break, you chat with another volunteer and ask if they've seen anything good at the theatre recently, compare notes on what you like seeing. It's a nice conversation, and you both enjoy it. Probably a few weeks of that go by. Then next time you see something you fancy coming on at the theatre, you mention it to her and say "Hey, I think I'm going to book and see [show], do you fancy coming?" When you go to the theatre, you can still get by with enthusiastic small talk, you don't need to switch instantly into 'deep friendship' mode. Carry on like this for a few months, enjoying volunteering together and maybe meeting up every few weeks. Don't be afraid to suggest things, make it sound like you're probably going to do it anyway and they're welcome to join so it's low pressure (and, in fact, do it anyway even if they can't come!). Gradually the friendship will deepen of its own accord as you learn little tidbits about each others' lives - remember what she had coming up last time you saw her and ask how it went. I think the key to deepending friendships is mostly persistence and patience. It doesn't just suddenly happen, you don't have to suddenly flip a switch and start to relate differently, but you gradually get a little more entwined with each other by gradually spending time together.
When I last moved to a new city I started climbing even though I wasn't that keen on it, just because all the climbers I'd met seemed to be the kind of people I got on well with. Climbing sessions adjourned to the pub and I got to know folk better. I don't climb any more, but I still have the people. Rinse and repeat for several hobbies over time and you build up a social circle. Good luck!
posted by penguin pie at 1:02 PM on February 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
People I know have built good relationships in their 30s and 40s through improv groups, hiking/walking groups, board games groups, book groups, and churches. I think anything in which conversation is encouraged is helpful. I think the demographics of the group matter, it needs to either include a good chunk of people in the same stage of life as you, or be very mixed. I had the worst experience at a hiking group when I was in my late 20s. Most of the people were in their late 30s and post-divorce. they were perfectly pleasant but it was definitely something akin to an uncanny valley. In contrast, the strongest friendships I have created through shared interests have been with people 8-20 years older than me. But they weren't in a demographically similar bubble to each other.
posted by plonkee at 1:58 PM on February 25, 2021
posted by plonkee at 1:58 PM on February 25, 2021
As a woman, I've had some luck with Bumble BFF to meet other women as friends in my new city, and only doing socially distanced walks together (which is allowed by our public health advisories).
It doesn't allow for friend matching with opposite gender regardless of orientation, I don't believe, which is a bit frustrating but also probably like that for heteronormative/harassment reasons. And I'm not sure how that works with non-binary folks on there.
posted by Paper rabies at 2:52 PM on February 25, 2021
It doesn't allow for friend matching with opposite gender regardless of orientation, I don't believe, which is a bit frustrating but also probably like that for heteronormative/harassment reasons. And I'm not sure how that works with non-binary folks on there.
posted by Paper rabies at 2:52 PM on February 25, 2021
As a woman in my 30's I've made more new friends than I thought possible through sports and Instagram.
Sports teams in general are great for making friends because you have regularly scheduled get-togethers with the same people in a fun atmosphere, most teams have a team chat for the purpose of organizing but you end up joking around and sharing sports news and memes, etc. in the chat, working together for a common purpose is naturally conducive to forming bonds, and sports always come with team dinners, parties, barbecues, and other outings. Pre-pandemic I played on several hockey teams and a softball team, but many of my friends have had luck meeting new people in all kinds of sports including ultimate, volleyball, and soccer.
With Instagram, like many others during the pandemic I started collecting houseplants. I started an account to showcase my pretty plants and soon found myself chitchatting with other houseplant enthusiasts in my city and all over the world. Trading cuttings is a huge part of houseplant collecting, so I've met a number of plant people (safely in a public place and while socially distanced) in person and we've developed friendships. If you have any kind of hobby, guaranteed there is an online community for it. As plants' appeal is mostly visual, Instagram is a natural platform for plant people to gather. You might find that "your people" are on internet forums, Facebook, Instagram, etc.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:52 PM on February 25, 2021
Sports teams in general are great for making friends because you have regularly scheduled get-togethers with the same people in a fun atmosphere, most teams have a team chat for the purpose of organizing but you end up joking around and sharing sports news and memes, etc. in the chat, working together for a common purpose is naturally conducive to forming bonds, and sports always come with team dinners, parties, barbecues, and other outings. Pre-pandemic I played on several hockey teams and a softball team, but many of my friends have had luck meeting new people in all kinds of sports including ultimate, volleyball, and soccer.
With Instagram, like many others during the pandemic I started collecting houseplants. I started an account to showcase my pretty plants and soon found myself chitchatting with other houseplant enthusiasts in my city and all over the world. Trading cuttings is a huge part of houseplant collecting, so I've met a number of plant people (safely in a public place and while socially distanced) in person and we've developed friendships. If you have any kind of hobby, guaranteed there is an online community for it. As plants' appeal is mostly visual, Instagram is a natural platform for plant people to gather. You might find that "your people" are on internet forums, Facebook, Instagram, etc.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:52 PM on February 25, 2021
Follow up answer to above question:
I mean, join your local chapter Democratic Socialists of America. Basically, my advice is, find a setting where you can easily join a group of people around your age who are working together on shared, high stakes projects. DSA is one example of a group like that, there are many others, but DSA is an easy-to-find widespread example. Intense, ongoing proximity and shared work has been the main way I've made lasting friendships.
posted by latkes at 10:10 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
I mean, join your local chapter Democratic Socialists of America. Basically, my advice is, find a setting where you can easily join a group of people around your age who are working together on shared, high stakes projects. DSA is one example of a group like that, there are many others, but DSA is an easy-to-find widespread example. Intense, ongoing proximity and shared work has been the main way I've made lasting friendships.
posted by latkes at 10:10 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hi. First, don't be embarrassed. In all sincerity, from your situation, everything you described sounds normal (not pathetic).
Social circles are not static (sometimes anything but - even in close knit communities), people change social situations (perspective/philosophy, career, divorce, travel, sickness, etc.) intermittently throughout their lives. Some people are fortunate enough to maintain consistent social circles, even so, some of these people fall into stagnation and sometimes become unhappy. Some people leave social situations and return later, or branch into new territory.
A person can make friends at any time*, a person can cultivate a vibrant social life (and maintain it's contingency) at any time. Also, you're not starting from zero, you're starting from one (beginning with you, of course). People who maintain and develop careers or live in tiny pockets in small towns can suddenly change behaviors to create new social dynamic. If society weren't flexible enough to do this, we'd probably have even more concerns than we do now.
Your therapist isn't wrong: Pretty much anyone is entitled to create their own family through friends. (in many ways, this can be a pretty incredible advantage, and even more fun or intimate- I'm sorry, but I think it's sometimes better!)
And no, it's seriously never too late. People in extreme situations (maybe escaping war-zones or moving to a new country) needed and created bonds to escape very serious or life threatening situations. If you've just moved to a new city, you've likely made a huge step in cultivating new social circles. Larger cities have constant fluxing populations of people, including people who desired change (and moved), or people who are constantly interested in introducing new waves of interest within their lives.
Volunteering, attending shows/cultural events/galleries etc, part-time jobs, or even just visiting the same sites again, and again (as a local, patronizing local businesses) are all solid ways to meet regulars or watch social patterns in a new place you've found. If you focus, you may be able to turn something a little intimidating into something very exciting. When I last checked, a lot of people began using Tinder/Bumble, just to meet friends (I don't use Tinder, or Bumble, I am not current with the applications, but I saw the results, and they were good). If you're living in a city, you've already met a serious privilege/advantage by participating in a place likely teeming with life. And yes, Covid will be a factor for a little bit, so please give yourself a break. If you find a talent in small talk, you're probably already more active than many people.
This may also help:
"A study by the bank UBS found that in the wake of the 2008-9 financial crisis, millennials appear more risk averse than any generation since the Great Depression. They're making life decisions later, delaying marriage longer, taking much longer to settle into a career. They are less likely than earlier generations to have three things associated with adulthood: A spouse, a house, a child." Karlgaard, a book entitled, "Late Bloomers," specifically targeting ebbs, flows, and concerns within the millennial generation. It's a piece that essentially deconstructs a lot of typical problems, describing life circumstances that can arrive in altering waves (e.g. people cultivating careers in 30s/40s, the US obsession with youth, as well as "arriving," prematurely/young, etc).
It's very okay to change social curiosity or jump into it late, just make sure you actually jump into it.
As of 2019, there are 7.6bil people on the planet. ..you probably don't have to die alone, if you'd rather not.
As far as concerns about depression, your situation is your situation - Based on everything you included in your message, you should never feel guilty about your disposition. Those qualifiers aren't within your control. I think if you shift perspective a little bit, you'll find a lot is at your advantage and you may have more going for you than you knew.
Good luck!
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:15 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Social circles are not static (sometimes anything but - even in close knit communities), people change social situations (perspective/philosophy, career, divorce, travel, sickness, etc.) intermittently throughout their lives. Some people are fortunate enough to maintain consistent social circles, even so, some of these people fall into stagnation and sometimes become unhappy. Some people leave social situations and return later, or branch into new territory.
A person can make friends at any time*, a person can cultivate a vibrant social life (and maintain it's contingency) at any time. Also, you're not starting from zero, you're starting from one (beginning with you, of course). People who maintain and develop careers or live in tiny pockets in small towns can suddenly change behaviors to create new social dynamic. If society weren't flexible enough to do this, we'd probably have even more concerns than we do now.
Your therapist isn't wrong: Pretty much anyone is entitled to create their own family through friends. (in many ways, this can be a pretty incredible advantage, and even more fun or intimate- I'm sorry, but I think it's sometimes better!)
And no, it's seriously never too late. People in extreme situations (maybe escaping war-zones or moving to a new country) needed and created bonds to escape very serious or life threatening situations. If you've just moved to a new city, you've likely made a huge step in cultivating new social circles. Larger cities have constant fluxing populations of people, including people who desired change (and moved), or people who are constantly interested in introducing new waves of interest within their lives.
Volunteering, attending shows/cultural events/galleries etc, part-time jobs, or even just visiting the same sites again, and again (as a local, patronizing local businesses) are all solid ways to meet regulars or watch social patterns in a new place you've found. If you focus, you may be able to turn something a little intimidating into something very exciting. When I last checked, a lot of people began using Tinder/Bumble, just to meet friends (I don't use Tinder, or Bumble, I am not current with the applications, but I saw the results, and they were good). If you're living in a city, you've already met a serious privilege/advantage by participating in a place likely teeming with life. And yes, Covid will be a factor for a little bit, so please give yourself a break. If you find a talent in small talk, you're probably already more active than many people.
This may also help:
"A study by the bank UBS found that in the wake of the 2008-9 financial crisis, millennials appear more risk averse than any generation since the Great Depression. They're making life decisions later, delaying marriage longer, taking much longer to settle into a career. They are less likely than earlier generations to have three things associated with adulthood: A spouse, a house, a child." Karlgaard, a book entitled, "Late Bloomers," specifically targeting ebbs, flows, and concerns within the millennial generation. It's a piece that essentially deconstructs a lot of typical problems, describing life circumstances that can arrive in altering waves (e.g. people cultivating careers in 30s/40s, the US obsession with youth, as well as "arriving," prematurely/young, etc).
It's very okay to change social curiosity or jump into it late, just make sure you actually jump into it.
As of 2019, there are 7.6bil people on the planet. ..you probably don't have to die alone, if you'd rather not.
As far as concerns about depression, your situation is your situation - Based on everything you included in your message, you should never feel guilty about your disposition. Those qualifiers aren't within your control. I think if you shift perspective a little bit, you'll find a lot is at your advantage and you may have more going for you than you knew.
Good luck!
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:15 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'd strongly second latkes about joining a group with some sort of important project. I'm not a democratic socialist but I have made my most recent friends in a local progressive political group, so, very similar idea. It took a while to make friends-friends but I got there eventually.
posted by ferret branca at 10:23 AM on February 27, 2021
posted by ferret branca at 10:23 AM on February 27, 2021
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posted by sugarbomb at 4:58 PM on February 24, 2021 [4 favorites]