New build home inspection... red flags?
January 25, 2021 11:10 AM Subscribe
My partner and I recently made an offer on a newly built home and it was accepted. We were so excited to find something that checked all the boxes after searching for almost two years. Everything finally seemed to be falling into place. Thank god our offer was subject to inspection because, well... the inspection is not going well. Are these normal issues that will be fixed easily, or do we need to cut and run?
The home in question is a half-duplex with 3 bedrooms and 3.5 bathrooms on 3 levels. There is a detached 2-car garage which is shared with the duplex-neighbor, but the garage has a solid wall down the middle and each half of the garage has its own locked entry.
My partner is at the new home with our realtor and the inspector. He's texting me as it goes, and I am freaking out.
So far, here is what the inspector has turned up:
- One of the showers straight up doesn't work
- There are plumbing issues in the other bathrooms as well
- The AC unit is faulty
- The stove doesn't work
- The sump pump in the back was turned off and full of water
- The electrical for the pump is in the neighbor's locked half of the garage, so we have no access to it
This is not an exhaustive list, the inspection is still ongoing as I type. I'm feeling gutted and would appreciate a reality check. Are we overreacting as new home buyers? Or are we potentially dodging a bullet?
The home in question is a half-duplex with 3 bedrooms and 3.5 bathrooms on 3 levels. There is a detached 2-car garage which is shared with the duplex-neighbor, but the garage has a solid wall down the middle and each half of the garage has its own locked entry.
My partner is at the new home with our realtor and the inspector. He's texting me as it goes, and I am freaking out.
So far, here is what the inspector has turned up:
- One of the showers straight up doesn't work
- There are plumbing issues in the other bathrooms as well
- The AC unit is faulty
- The stove doesn't work
- The sump pump in the back was turned off and full of water
- The electrical for the pump is in the neighbor's locked half of the garage, so we have no access to it
This is not an exhaustive list, the inspection is still ongoing as I type. I'm feeling gutted and would appreciate a reality check. Are we overreacting as new home buyers? Or are we potentially dodging a bullet?
Honestly, that all seems odd for a new build. Less odd for an older home. Everything found in the inspection can be a point of negotiation, however. But, I'm not sure I would trust the original builder to do the repairs if so much is faulty at the beginning of the home's life. I would insist on a mutually agreed upon contractor if you want to do repairs.
posted by banjonaut at 11:19 AM on January 25, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by banjonaut at 11:19 AM on January 25, 2021 [24 favorites]
Wow that's a lot of faulty plumbing issues - I would walk away - it's too many problems that sound like crappy construction which might leave you with expensive nightmares for years to come.
posted by leslies at 11:20 AM on January 25, 2021 [35 favorites]
posted by leslies at 11:20 AM on January 25, 2021 [35 favorites]
The reason why each of those is happening is important: If a sump pump is turned off then it fills up. Maybe there's a switch in the neighbor's space that someone turned off, and flipping it will fix this.
On the other hand, the phrase "plumbing issues" makes the hair on my arms stand up.
If it's a gas stove, was the gas simply shut off? Or is the igniter busted (a quick fix) -- or is it a modern stove whose motherboard is fried so it probably needs to be straight up replaced?
An old A/C window unit has a finite lifespan, and it may be time to go. But if it's a central air system, that's big dollars. (Ask me how I know, he mutters wearily.)
On a new house, things should still work -- so I would want these all to have pretty straightforward root causes. And consider your budget: if you are maxed out, then you can't afford to deal with many problems; if this is well within your budget, then you kind of plan on buying some things and paying to fix them.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:20 AM on January 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
On the other hand, the phrase "plumbing issues" makes the hair on my arms stand up.
If it's a gas stove, was the gas simply shut off? Or is the igniter busted (a quick fix) -- or is it a modern stove whose motherboard is fried so it probably needs to be straight up replaced?
An old A/C window unit has a finite lifespan, and it may be time to go. But if it's a central air system, that's big dollars. (Ask me how I know, he mutters wearily.)
On a new house, things should still work -- so I would want these all to have pretty straightforward root causes. And consider your budget: if you are maxed out, then you can't afford to deal with many problems; if this is well within your budget, then you kind of plan on buying some things and paying to fix them.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:20 AM on January 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
Are you buying it from the builder?
Usually you just get quotes on problems and deduct those from the offer, as part of the negotiation. But if no one has ever lived there and it's this problmatic, I would be very leery.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:22 AM on January 25, 2021
Usually you just get quotes on problems and deduct those from the offer, as part of the negotiation. But if no one has ever lived there and it's this problmatic, I would be very leery.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:22 AM on January 25, 2021
Response by poster: To provide some clarification, this is a brand new home that we are purchasing from the builder, and it has never been occupied. Everything in the home should also be brand new, including the AC, which is an HRV system.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:24 AM on January 25, 2021
posted by keep it under cover at 11:24 AM on January 25, 2021
Yeah, consider this a major Matrix bullet time moment. This is new construction and you are having systems issues not simple cosmetic. Now, after this report you could negotiate the price way, way down or force the owner to fix all the major issues before cutting a check. But new builds should not have this nightmare of plumbing, electrical and damp issues. Mold be the devil.
posted by jadepearl at 11:25 AM on January 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 11:25 AM on January 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
Man that's a lot of issues for new construction, I would not be happy signing on to be the person on the hook for them. If the plumbing was badly done from the ground up and they didn't bother to even test it (the shower straight DOESN'T WORK??) I would not trust any of the other work as well.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:27 AM on January 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 11:27 AM on January 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
Quite sorry, but I would cut and run. This is likely only the tip of an iceberg. I wouldn't want to spend the next n years trying to get the builder to fix things that shouldn't have been broken in the first place, and clearly there will be more than a few of those.
posted by Dashy at 11:27 AM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 11:27 AM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yeah - run... don't walk away... All of these are giant red-flags for a brand new, unoccupied build - shoddy work that is this apparent right away? What will show-up after living there over a couple of years?
posted by rozcakj at 11:28 AM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by rozcakj at 11:28 AM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
The electrical for the pump is in the neighbor's locked half of the garage, so we have no access to it
This alone seems like an issue that can't be corrected in the timeframe of your contact. And it points to a huge problem in the design/construction of the duplex. I'd bail.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:29 AM on January 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
This alone seems like an issue that can't be corrected in the timeframe of your contact. And it points to a huge problem in the design/construction of the duplex. I'd bail.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:29 AM on January 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
You are potentially dodging a bullet and I sincerely hope you can frame it that way to yourselves. This might seem like THE ONLY HOUSE you'll ever find that will tick all the boxes; I mean, you looked for two years! But I promise you, there is a house out there for you that won't be putting up all these red flags before you've even taken possession.
And maybe revisit some of those boxes? Do they all really need to be checked?
posted by cooker girl at 11:30 AM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
And maybe revisit some of those boxes? Do they all really need to be checked?
posted by cooker girl at 11:30 AM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
One of the features of brand-new construction is the idea that things won't immediately need to be replaced or repaired. It doesn't sound like that's the case here. We bought a 50 year old house last year, and a number of things turned up on the inspection, including a leaky shower. The sellers were motivated, and resolved them, but we knew we were buying an older home. If we had looked at new construction, we'd have expected it to be pristine with regard to plumbing, AC, and electrical. I'm so sorry that you have to keep searching, but it's probably for the best. Good luck!
posted by danielleh at 11:35 AM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by danielleh at 11:35 AM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Don't view this as giving up a dream but avoiding a deceitful relationship. Seriously, you want a safe home to have a beautiful life not a home that you can't trust not to deprive you of sleep, money and potentially your health. That is not dream nor the hope.
posted by jadepearl at 11:38 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 11:38 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
My only experience here is in a new build condo building, where the neighbours all chatted about inspection reports -- what was wrong with our units when we moved into them was an endless fascinating topic for the whole year it took for everyone to move in. My unit was pretty good, except for some drywall issues and a few ungrouted tiles. A friend had to have her dishwasher swapped out right away. Some people had their closet rails or bathroom mirrors fall down the first day. Lots of people had non-working outlets that had to be fixed (lots more people just needed the super to come and explain to them that their switched outlet wouldn't work unless they turned the switch on).
To me, your situation really depends on how big the plumbing issues are. New builds always come with a deficiency list that the builders have to fix after the fact. Things like non-working appliances or air conditioning units are either easy fixes or they involve a straight swap of a defective unit. The plumbing, though, could be more contentious -- are they going to have to start pulling walls apart to get it working? Can it be made to work with relatively small changes or is it altogether poorly designed and almost impossible to fix?
Does your jurisdiction offer/require a new home warranty program? That will likely make a big difference in whether or not all these issues will get fixed.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:39 AM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
To me, your situation really depends on how big the plumbing issues are. New builds always come with a deficiency list that the builders have to fix after the fact. Things like non-working appliances or air conditioning units are either easy fixes or they involve a straight swap of a defective unit. The plumbing, though, could be more contentious -- are they going to have to start pulling walls apart to get it working? Can it be made to work with relatively small changes or is it altogether poorly designed and almost impossible to fix?
Does your jurisdiction offer/require a new home warranty program? That will likely make a big difference in whether or not all these issues will get fixed.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:39 AM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
When I read the top text of this question, I was thinking your "extended version" would be something along the lines of paint colors in a room that didn't perfectly match, or blinds that don't match a window perfectly. I was prepared to type up something about how inspectors are incentivized to find any possible minor defect to make it seem worth hiring them.
Holy crap, you need to run away as quickly as possible.
Yes, these are all fixable. However, you don't know what you don't know. If you have a builder incompetent enough to have these defects, there's no hope for them. They won't be able to fix their defects. Further, they won't fix the things that haven't been identified by the inspection - and most inspections are pretty "surface-deep".
The electrical issue is potentially dangerous - in case of a fire, you would not be able to disconnect power fully to your house.
posted by saeculorum at 11:39 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
Holy crap, you need to run away as quickly as possible.
Yes, these are all fixable. However, you don't know what you don't know. If you have a builder incompetent enough to have these defects, there's no hope for them. They won't be able to fix their defects. Further, they won't fix the things that haven't been identified by the inspection - and most inspections are pretty "surface-deep".
The electrical issue is potentially dangerous - in case of a fire, you would not be able to disconnect power fully to your house.
posted by saeculorum at 11:39 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
The electrical for the pump is in the neighbor's locked half of the garage, so we have no access to it
This alone seems like an issue that can't be corrected in the timeframe of your contact. And it points to a huge problem in the design/construction of the duplex. I'd bail.
I mean, it would take a few hours to run a new wire from your electrical panel to the sump pump on your side. I'd call the builder back out to check all this stuff.
Also "shower doesn't work" ? What does that mean? That the diverter doesn't divert, or that the water doesn't come out of the faucet? It might have a shutoff valve, and that's a good thing. They just need to tell you how to turn it on.
I'd build my list and address it with the builder. That's what you do.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:41 AM on January 25, 2021
This alone seems like an issue that can't be corrected in the timeframe of your contact. And it points to a huge problem in the design/construction of the duplex. I'd bail.
I mean, it would take a few hours to run a new wire from your electrical panel to the sump pump on your side. I'd call the builder back out to check all this stuff.
Also "shower doesn't work" ? What does that mean? That the diverter doesn't divert, or that the water doesn't come out of the faucet? It might have a shutoff valve, and that's a good thing. They just need to tell you how to turn it on.
I'd build my list and address it with the builder. That's what you do.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:41 AM on January 25, 2021
For a newly built house this is a terrifying list. It's all negotiable and fixable, but if there are a lot of problems that won't be visible at all to an inspector. If this stuff is all easily identified, what else got missed in the inspection, or is buried in the walls?
If it were me, I would just walk away.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:43 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
If it were me, I would just walk away.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:43 AM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
A lot of this is stuff that should have been caught before the house was put on the market; their foreman was either a dumbass or something has gone fairly awry in the construction process.
Bail out.
posted by aramaic at 11:55 AM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Bail out.
posted by aramaic at 11:55 AM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
To provide some possibly helpful perspective: nearly 20 years ago, I bought my first home, a 50 year old house with two major issues on inspection (neither one out of the ordinary for an older house).
I had been looking for a year and I liked the house better than anything else I’d seen, so I told the sellers I’d pay the asking price on the condition that they fix the two issues first. I was willing to do this because 1) the house was 50 years old, so it was inevitable and normal that things were wearing out; 2) the house inspector said that once fixed, the two issues would no longer be a problem, and 3) he said emphatically that the house itself was very solidly built.
I have been satisfied with my purchase and have lived here nearly 20 years. Yes, I’ve had to do one or two additional major repairs over the years, but nothing related to what came up in the home inspection.
In my opinion, the bar for a new build should be much higher than for an old one, and I honestly would have run away from an older house with the number and type of problems you’ve listed.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:58 AM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I had been looking for a year and I liked the house better than anything else I’d seen, so I told the sellers I’d pay the asking price on the condition that they fix the two issues first. I was willing to do this because 1) the house was 50 years old, so it was inevitable and normal that things were wearing out; 2) the house inspector said that once fixed, the two issues would no longer be a problem, and 3) he said emphatically that the house itself was very solidly built.
I have been satisfied with my purchase and have lived here nearly 20 years. Yes, I’ve had to do one or two additional major repairs over the years, but nothing related to what came up in the home inspection.
In my opinion, the bar for a new build should be much higher than for an old one, and I honestly would have run away from an older house with the number and type of problems you’ve listed.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:58 AM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I would walk away on the basis of that list, especially the plumbing. There's a whack of plumbing you cannot currently see I'll bet. And it shows a lack of care and pride in the work to not have it addressed for your inspection.
I'm speaking as someone who bought a known fixer upper after her own contractor friend said "why would you buy this house?" It's not just the issues that concern me but that with a new build, there's kind of no excuse - and I'm assuming you bought new because you didn't want to spend all your time and money for the next 7 year fixing things.
If it were a few tiles or an appliance, sure, but plumbing is pretty core.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:59 AM on January 25, 2021
I'm speaking as someone who bought a known fixer upper after her own contractor friend said "why would you buy this house?" It's not just the issues that concern me but that with a new build, there's kind of no excuse - and I'm assuming you bought new because you didn't want to spend all your time and money for the next 7 year fixing things.
If it were a few tiles or an appliance, sure, but plumbing is pretty core.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:59 AM on January 25, 2021
I mean, it would take a few hours to run a new wire from your electrical panel to the sump pump on your side. I'd call the builder back out to check all this stuff.
Sorry, I was speaking from my experiences in the Chicago area - where ALL electrical needs to be in grounded steel conduit.
If you're in an area where you can snake Romex through a wall and be done, that's cool. But, here, you'd need to start cutting into drywall unless the conduit from the sump happens to go near the breaker box.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:29 PM on January 25, 2021
Sorry, I was speaking from my experiences in the Chicago area - where ALL electrical needs to be in grounded steel conduit.
If you're in an area where you can snake Romex through a wall and be done, that's cool. But, here, you'd need to start cutting into drywall unless the conduit from the sump happens to go near the breaker box.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:29 PM on January 25, 2021
The idea that newly built homes have no problems is not true in my experience. There's always a cut list. It's impossible to say from this list alone how bad it is. "Shower doesn't work" could be as simple as a closed isolation valve. "stove doesn't work" is the gas turned on? Or blown fuse? The question is, how reliable is the builder in fixing issues? That's a question for other buyers from that builder.
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
New builds shouldn’t be fixer uppers. There are issues, and then there are issues. You’ve got the latter.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:34 PM on January 25, 2021
posted by kevinbelt at 12:34 PM on January 25, 2021
You said the house ticks all your boxes. Does that include a box that says, “Brand new home but it has a laundry list of problems to fix”? Look, I’m an old-house person—I’ve bought four houses in my life, the “newest” built in 1937, and not once have I encountered that many problems in one place. Cut, run.
posted by scratch at 12:35 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by scratch at 12:35 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
RUN, do not walk away. You can and will find a house that...works. For a new build this is atrocious.
Also pat yourself on the back for making it contingent on inspection. You dodged a major bullet.
posted by pando11 at 1:18 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also pat yourself on the back for making it contingent on inspection. You dodged a major bullet.
posted by pando11 at 1:18 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: So my partner has returned from the inspection and he gave me the whole rundown of what he can remember (there was so much that he can't remember it all).
- The shower that doesn't work does not turn on at all, water doesn't come out.
- The water pressure out of every faucet is different. Even in the master en suite which has a vanity with two sinks - one sink has stronger pressure than the other.
- One of the stair treads was missing. It was there when we viewed the house, it was just GONE today. When they stepped on the tread below the missing one, it cracked in half.
- The HRV system was installed in a closet, and then all the pipes/tubing were installed in front of it such that you can no longer remove the existing filter or put a new one in. To fix this, the builder just attached another filter to the outside of it. It's also making a mysterious, continuous high pitched noise.
- One of the boiler valves is leaking.
- The gas fireplace was working, so the gas should be on... they weren't able to ascertain why the stove wouldn't turn on.
- There were some problems with the exterior flashing.
- The builder is extremely lucky that the sump didn't flood, because it was filled to the brim from the last day of rain and had it overflowed with the pump switched off, any overflow would've headed for the basement door. It was unclear if it was turned off/left off AND the backup power too.
Cosmetic and sloppiness issues:
- Lots of missing grout between tiles in the kitchen and all bathrooms. One of the showers is unusable because there are sharp edges sticking up at angles due to the tiles being laid so crookedly.
- You can see dents in some of the walls where they simply wallpapered over gaps in the drywall.
- No caulking under backsplashes.
- Missing caulking around windows.
- Light switch panels installed crookedly.
- Some light fixtures and sprinklers are randomly missing the covers (where did they go? why weren't they installed with the fixtures??)
- The paint touchups don't match the paint, you can see the patches clearly.
The inspector remarked at the end of it all, "This is actually one of the better houses I've seen!" Such is the real estate market in this city. It's so frenzied that many buyers will put in offers with no conditions, no inspection whatsoever, and just deal with whatever they get. It's so disappointing because this house was at the very top of our price range... and while I knew that money doesn't go very far in this city, I never imagined it would get us so, so little.
posted by keep it under cover at 1:20 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
- The shower that doesn't work does not turn on at all, water doesn't come out.
- The water pressure out of every faucet is different. Even in the master en suite which has a vanity with two sinks - one sink has stronger pressure than the other.
- One of the stair treads was missing. It was there when we viewed the house, it was just GONE today. When they stepped on the tread below the missing one, it cracked in half.
- The HRV system was installed in a closet, and then all the pipes/tubing were installed in front of it such that you can no longer remove the existing filter or put a new one in. To fix this, the builder just attached another filter to the outside of it. It's also making a mysterious, continuous high pitched noise.
- One of the boiler valves is leaking.
- The gas fireplace was working, so the gas should be on... they weren't able to ascertain why the stove wouldn't turn on.
- There were some problems with the exterior flashing.
- The builder is extremely lucky that the sump didn't flood, because it was filled to the brim from the last day of rain and had it overflowed with the pump switched off, any overflow would've headed for the basement door. It was unclear if it was turned off/left off AND the backup power too.
Cosmetic and sloppiness issues:
- Lots of missing grout between tiles in the kitchen and all bathrooms. One of the showers is unusable because there are sharp edges sticking up at angles due to the tiles being laid so crookedly.
- You can see dents in some of the walls where they simply wallpapered over gaps in the drywall.
- No caulking under backsplashes.
- Missing caulking around windows.
- Light switch panels installed crookedly.
- Some light fixtures and sprinklers are randomly missing the covers (where did they go? why weren't they installed with the fixtures??)
- The paint touchups don't match the paint, you can see the patches clearly.
The inspector remarked at the end of it all, "This is actually one of the better houses I've seen!" Such is the real estate market in this city. It's so frenzied that many buyers will put in offers with no conditions, no inspection whatsoever, and just deal with whatever they get. It's so disappointing because this house was at the very top of our price range... and while I knew that money doesn't go very far in this city, I never imagined it would get us so, so little.
posted by keep it under cover at 1:20 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I laughed out loud after reading this - it sounds like something someone built while high and on a very limited budget. I'm so sorry keep it under cover....that's horrible.
It sounds horrible, but you want to minimize regret and when you look back at this situation in years to come, I don't think you will regret walking away.
There's also the sunk cost fallacy and I think you being prey to that here (two years, top end of price point, "one of the better houses I've seen"). No deal is always better than bad deal.
It would be useful to regroup if you turn this down and think long and hard about whether you want to look at a different neighborhood if this is at the top of your price range, or go for a house that is smaller. 3 bedrooms is a quite large house.
posted by pando11 at 1:24 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
It sounds horrible, but you want to minimize regret and when you look back at this situation in years to come, I don't think you will regret walking away.
There's also the sunk cost fallacy and I think you being prey to that here (two years, top end of price point, "one of the better houses I've seen"). No deal is always better than bad deal.
It would be useful to regroup if you turn this down and think long and hard about whether you want to look at a different neighborhood if this is at the top of your price range, or go for a house that is smaller. 3 bedrooms is a quite large house.
posted by pando11 at 1:24 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
The plumbing issues would terrify me. You have to remember that an inspection does not look at every inch of the house - if this is what the inspector found in what they could see, who knows what is going on behind the walls? A lot of these things are super basic and anyone reasonably handy should have done it correctly - the fact that it is "new" is CRAZY to me and I have to imagine they used the cheapest (read: unskilled) labor they could find. Hell, our local HS student build houses for construction courses and they'd do a better job than this.
Run away from this deal, now.
posted by _DB_ at 1:28 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Run away from this deal, now.
posted by _DB_ at 1:28 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Omg please run! There's always stuff the inspector doesn't find that often sinks you -- if you're finding this much stuff now in a NEW BUILD, there is certainly more and it will haunt you.
posted by heavenknows at 1:34 PM on January 25, 2021
posted by heavenknows at 1:34 PM on January 25, 2021
- The HRV system was installed in a closet, and then all the pipes/tubing were installed in front of it such that you can no longer remove the existing filter or put a new one in. To fix this, the builder just attached another filter to the outside of it. It's also making a mysterious, continuous high pitched noise.
IMO this is the biggest reason to run. Other issues maybe could be chalked up to construction in progress, but this indicates a contractor willing to cut some serious corners.
posted by many more sunsets at 1:36 PM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
IMO this is the biggest reason to run. Other issues maybe could be chalked up to construction in progress, but this indicates a contractor willing to cut some serious corners.
posted by many more sunsets at 1:36 PM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
keep it under cover, I am so sorry this is happening to you: I remember the highs & lows of house-hunting.
That said, avoiding the heartache is a far, far better thing.
We have lived in our second house for a decade, and everyone is used to me muttering "I hate this house" like a mantra as I fix something. Often, the same thing as another time. We bought it with a few things outstanding -- we had them put in a radon system, using the same guy who put one into the house we were selling across town, for the same price -- but nothign nearly as bad as what you list. And I still find myself hating the place! :7)
A better house is out there for you, where the same amount of work will all br forward progress instead of just getting to the surface for a breath of air.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:37 PM on January 25, 2021
That said, avoiding the heartache is a far, far better thing.
We have lived in our second house for a decade, and everyone is used to me muttering "I hate this house" like a mantra as I fix something. Often, the same thing as another time. We bought it with a few things outstanding -- we had them put in a radon system, using the same guy who put one into the house we were selling across town, for the same price -- but nothign nearly as bad as what you list. And I still find myself hating the place! :7)
A better house is out there for you, where the same amount of work will all br forward progress instead of just getting to the surface for a breath of air.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:37 PM on January 25, 2021
I'm really sorry. But especially as this house is at the top of your range I really do recommend walking because...even if you get all this repaired for the cost of the home, I'm worried about the things you didn't see and how much stress you would end up under repairing those in the future.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:39 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 1:39 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, a lot of FOMO (fear of missing out) is causing pressure. If you were walking into a known handyman's dream of a several decade-old house with good bones is one thing but what you describe is not that situation. You have a house that at its core, is a bad build. If this is the top of your range, then this house will cause financial hardship because the repair and remodel costs are piling up from what you have listed. Your surface-level inspection indicates a shoddy build and a builder who has no care for what they create. Lord knows, what is not seen. You already have evidence that instead of a simple drywall fix, they went to wallpapering over it; that is not a sign of a person who is honest about what they do.
You may want to consider looking at houses with good bones that you run the numbers on remodeling to what you want. If you are completely averse to remodeling, how will you feel about being in a repair zone? I mean, there were no chalk outlines on the floor or mysterious voices whispering things but still, warning signs.
I know you feel bad about this, but this is not a missed opportunity but an escape from a disaster zone. Remember that you are the BUYER, and you have expectations and rights. One of those rights is having honest dealing with the builder/seller. A shoddy build is dishonesty and deception that will cost you from 6-7 figures. I mean, at least a dishonest car salesman screws you out of 5 figures, but you are looking at a much larger magnitude of loss in the case of a house. As a buyer, you do not want to be in the psychology of fear, whether FOMO or massive repairs. Don't be desperate; that limits your choices.
posted by jadepearl at 2:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
You may want to consider looking at houses with good bones that you run the numbers on remodeling to what you want. If you are completely averse to remodeling, how will you feel about being in a repair zone? I mean, there were no chalk outlines on the floor or mysterious voices whispering things but still, warning signs.
I know you feel bad about this, but this is not a missed opportunity but an escape from a disaster zone. Remember that you are the BUYER, and you have expectations and rights. One of those rights is having honest dealing with the builder/seller. A shoddy build is dishonesty and deception that will cost you from 6-7 figures. I mean, at least a dishonest car salesman screws you out of 5 figures, but you are looking at a much larger magnitude of loss in the case of a house. As a buyer, you do not want to be in the psychology of fear, whether FOMO or massive repairs. Don't be desperate; that limits your choices.
posted by jadepearl at 2:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’m all for fixing up houses, but you should walk away and not look back. That list of problems in a brand new home is absolutely terrifying and speaks to poor construction and lack of attention to detail.
posted by gnutron at 2:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gnutron at 2:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think part of the tough part mentally is that if you say no (and you should! It sounds like is would be better for the builder to strip it out and start again) if you say no, someone else is likely to buy it, because of the hype in the market. And you will wonder "maybe it wasn't so bad, we should have just gone for it" especially as house hunting drags on.
But keep it under cover, house ownership is expensive. There is always something to repair, remodel or just clean up.
Where I am, I mentally budget 5-10 grand per major item (and I haven't been too far wrong.) It adds up over the years.
Shoddy handywork up top is a sign of even scarier handywork down below. I would not buy this house.
posted by freethefeet at 2:29 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
But keep it under cover, house ownership is expensive. There is always something to repair, remodel or just clean up.
Where I am, I mentally budget 5-10 grand per major item (and I haven't been too far wrong.) It adds up over the years.
Shoddy handywork up top is a sign of even scarier handywork down below. I would not buy this house.
posted by freethefeet at 2:29 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I would walk away.
This not a case of someone had the water and gas mains turned off.
This is not a normal case of small defects.
This HRV system then all the pipes/tubing were installed in front of it such that you can no longer remove the existing filter is crazy.
Same guy probably also did the AC unit which doesn't work
He probably also did the boiler which is leaking.
The HVAC is suspect everywhere
The plumbing should not have this many issues,
I don't know how the sump pump electrical is in the other unit.
That's absurd.
I don't know how that could pass a city inspection.
posted by yyz at 2:30 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
This not a case of someone had the water and gas mains turned off.
This is not a normal case of small defects.
This HRV system then all the pipes/tubing were installed in front of it such that you can no longer remove the existing filter is crazy.
Same guy probably also did the AC unit which doesn't work
He probably also did the boiler which is leaking.
The HVAC is suspect everywhere
The plumbing should not have this many issues,
I don't know how the sump pump electrical is in the other unit.
That's absurd.
I don't know how that could pass a city inspection.
posted by yyz at 2:30 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
The list isn't so bad, yet. One by one:
First, confer with your inspector & realtor, who certainly wants to sell you a house a lot, but they will have been through this before, so maybe not THIS house. Your inspector might seem thorough, mine was 42 pages of terrible things, and you might need additional expertise. You should seriously consider insisting on an electrical inspector and a plumber. The main benefit here isn't that they are better at finding problems than your inspector, it's that they are able to provide solutions and costs. Which can be real real money. You can make the seller take care of these, or you can get your realtor to negotiate it - its why they get paid. You can have the price of these additional inspections and fixing everything else that's busted considered in the pricing of the house. For example, we doubled our holdback, which is something to talk to your realtor about. You have the cash so you have all the options, so always be emotionally prepared to walk.
Owning a house is continually deciding between the cost, the tradeoffs and the benefits.
posted by zenon at 3:20 PM on January 25, 2021
- shower doesn't work: modern showers will have an access panel to fix the control valve. A whole new shower valve can be had for 100, plus another hundred to install here in Chicagoland, & the whole assembly can be redone for less than 500$.
- plumbing issues: the potential range here is staggering - it could be that you need a new bob in the toilet for 15$ to a whole new line run for ten of thousands
- AC unit is faulty: this will only have a warranty if installed by a pro, and around here a whole new unit installed is about 2000
- stove doesn't work: likely left a 'demo' or floor model in your house, my new stove was 400 delivered to my door
- sump pump was off: bad but dumb
- electrical for the pump is in the neighbor's garage: just bad and this is the biggest issue of the lot as this is a real problem for passing inspection
First, confer with your inspector & realtor, who certainly wants to sell you a house a lot, but they will have been through this before, so maybe not THIS house. Your inspector might seem thorough, mine was 42 pages of terrible things, and you might need additional expertise. You should seriously consider insisting on an electrical inspector and a plumber. The main benefit here isn't that they are better at finding problems than your inspector, it's that they are able to provide solutions and costs. Which can be real real money. You can make the seller take care of these, or you can get your realtor to negotiate it - its why they get paid. You can have the price of these additional inspections and fixing everything else that's busted considered in the pricing of the house. For example, we doubled our holdback, which is something to talk to your realtor about. You have the cash so you have all the options, so always be emotionally prepared to walk.
Owning a house is continually deciding between the cost, the tradeoffs and the benefits.
posted by zenon at 3:20 PM on January 25, 2021
None of these things are insurmountable, but I would view the fact that the builder put it on the market in this condition as a major failure of the green m&m test. If these are the defects you can see, what about the ones you can’t?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:01 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah, for a builder to put it on the market in this condition, as new construction...I'd run.
posted by maxwelton at 4:52 PM on January 25, 2021
posted by maxwelton at 4:52 PM on January 25, 2021
The high-level explanation for your list of issues seems to be, "builder prioritized fast and cheap over good and is trying to sell a poorly-constructed house". You can see issues in multiple systems before the house has even been used, and know that all the work was done by the one builder.
Zenon has a point that $4000 of repairs is not a lot in the grand scheme of homeownership, and that pinning down and negotiating problems is a reasonable approach. But I'd still vote "run". You can buy a fixer-upper, or buy at the top of your price range, but it's probably a bad idea to do both.
posted by mersen at 5:22 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Zenon has a point that $4000 of repairs is not a lot in the grand scheme of homeownership, and that pinning down and negotiating problems is a reasonable approach. But I'd still vote "run". You can buy a fixer-upper, or buy at the top of your price range, but it's probably a bad idea to do both.
posted by mersen at 5:22 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
One additional point: no matter what you might manage to fix in this unit, it’s a duplex — so an unresolved disaster next door can pour into your unit as well.
posted by aramaic at 5:58 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 5:58 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't know how the sump pump electrical is in the other unit.
That's absurd.
Who pays the electrical bill on that? The other unit? Who is liable if their electricity is shutoff and your basement floods?
Insane - this is potentially illegal even.
But - you are in Canada - am going to guess this is Onterrible - and the real estate market, while cooled down a bit in Toronto, is still hot overall - people buying without conditions, bidding wars.
So, I empathize - and your inspector is probably right - there will be a stupid bidding war for a shoddy unit.
Offer the asking price, with the condition that all repairs be completed. Because it is new, the builder has access to materials and people at significantly lower cost than you will.
posted by rozcakj at 8:04 AM on January 26, 2021
That's absurd.
Who pays the electrical bill on that? The other unit? Who is liable if their electricity is shutoff and your basement floods?
Insane - this is potentially illegal even.
But - you are in Canada - am going to guess this is Onterrible - and the real estate market, while cooled down a bit in Toronto, is still hot overall - people buying without conditions, bidding wars.
So, I empathize - and your inspector is probably right - there will be a stupid bidding war for a shoddy unit.
Offer the asking price, with the condition that all repairs be completed. Because it is new, the builder has access to materials and people at significantly lower cost than you will.
posted by rozcakj at 8:04 AM on January 26, 2021
If this house was 10 or 15 years old, I might go, okay, get quotes for fixing all of this and lower the price by AT LEAST that much. But on a newly constructed, unoccupied home? No. Hell no. This long list of issues are only the ones that you or the inspector found. Who knows what other corners were cut? This is not your Dream House, with an asterisk. This is a long-term nightmare.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on January 26, 2021
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on January 26, 2021
If I walked away, I'd also report this builder to the city and ask contact a city council-type member to find out who was approving permits for all this. Water pressure and HVAC are all regulated and should be inspected by the city and the build's own inspector.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:15 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:15 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm just below the no-go threshold, and I don't even know houses that well. :D
MAYBE the neighbor's pump controls can resolve most of the plumbing problems, but that puts the livability of your house in someone else's hands. If they are malicious enough, they can deny you access to those pumps, and then you're up **** creek without a paddle. Something like that should be in a public area, not locked in one or the other's control. I'd be weary.
posted by kschang at 11:38 AM on January 26, 2021
MAYBE the neighbor's pump controls can resolve most of the plumbing problems, but that puts the livability of your house in someone else's hands. If they are malicious enough, they can deny you access to those pumps, and then you're up **** creek without a paddle. Something like that should be in a public area, not locked in one or the other's control. I'd be weary.
posted by kschang at 11:38 AM on January 26, 2021
This seems like a systemic issue -- a shady builder who hired unskilled work. I promise you there are even more problems than the inspector found. And where did the inspector come from? Through the realtor, who is the selling agent? Or through you as the buyer agent? The electrical for the sump pump in the neighbor's unit would be a deal breaker for me even if everything else was beautiful and pristine. What if you neighbor denies you access? I wouldn't even buy a house with a shared driveway. Nope.
There's a neighborhood where I live built in the 70s by one builder company and you can drive through the neighborhood today and see all of the houses sinking in the middle like something out of Poltergeist. This is more than just the tile subcontractor was in a hurry to finish.
posted by archimago at 11:58 AM on January 26, 2021
There's a neighborhood where I live built in the 70s by one builder company and you can drive through the neighborhood today and see all of the houses sinking in the middle like something out of Poltergeist. This is more than just the tile subcontractor was in a hurry to finish.
posted by archimago at 11:58 AM on January 26, 2021
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your insights and advice. We've decided to walk away from the purchase. I considered posting all the rest of the deficiencies from the full report for everyone to have a good laugh at, but perhaps it's best that I try to put this house out of my mind and move on.
I really thought this would be our dream home and got very attached to it, so I extra appreciate everyone who shared their thoughts on re-framing the disappointment in ways that made it easier to walk away. We learned a lot with this experience, and while I'm still getting there emotionally, I know that a year from now we'll be very glad we didn't sink our hard-earned savings into this particular property. Someone else will absolutely buy it, probably for full asking price, and I just have to hold fast to the knowledge that we made the smarter decision.
At the end of his tour around the house, the inspector actually said, "This is one of the better ones I've seen." Ladies and gentlemen, this is what $1.7M gets you in Vancouver.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:13 PM on January 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
I really thought this would be our dream home and got very attached to it, so I extra appreciate everyone who shared their thoughts on re-framing the disappointment in ways that made it easier to walk away. We learned a lot with this experience, and while I'm still getting there emotionally, I know that a year from now we'll be very glad we didn't sink our hard-earned savings into this particular property. Someone else will absolutely buy it, probably for full asking price, and I just have to hold fast to the knowledge that we made the smarter decision.
At the end of his tour around the house, the inspector actually said, "This is one of the better ones I've seen." Ladies and gentlemen, this is what $1.7M gets you in Vancouver.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:13 PM on January 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
If it helps, I'm sad with you because living in Vancouver is a thing we fantasize about, and now not so much.
Definitely the smarter decision.
posted by Dashy at 2:55 PM on January 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Definitely the smarter decision.
posted by Dashy at 2:55 PM on January 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
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Has this house not been occupied?
posted by dgeiser13 at 11:19 AM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]