Help! My daughter saw porn on my screen.
January 11, 2021 2:11 PM Subscribe
I’m devastated. This morning my 12 year old daughter left a note on my desk telling me that more than once she unwittingly saw porn on my iPad, and this has damaged our relationship. Damaging our relationship is the last thing in the world I would ever want to do — I love her more than anything in the world. How can we recover from this?
Okay, so I watch porn. Often alone, sometimes with my wife (I’m a guy) as a part of our sexual adventures. As a practice I normally close out any open windows and clear my browser history — but there were 2 times when I failed to do so, and when my daughter came to me asking a question that I needed to Google, she was looking over my shoulder when I switched apps in iOS and she saw something she shouldn’t have. Both times I wasn’t sure if she actually saw the screen, and quickly closed them and let it go without mentioning it. One time when switching apps, Tumblr was in the background and she saw a man on top of another man (I’ve recently become curious and stimulated by bisexual porn.)
This morning she left a note torn out of her journal in my home office. She asked me to delete the bookmarks with porn on my phone and iPad, and said that when she learned I watched porn it “scared me forever.” She wrote that she cried herself to sleep thinking about me watching stuff like that. She asked me to not talk about it in person — and also wrote that she is sometimes uncomfortable around me.
She wrote “I will give you anything for you to stop watching porn. Don’t take to me about this, please?” and “I don’t want a therapist because I don’t trust them, now I can’t trust anyone.” She ended the note with “It sucks when the only person who can make you feel better is also the person who made you cry.”
I’m heart broken. I feel shame, guilt, self-loathing for letting this happen. I feel deep sadness that I’ve shattered my beautiful daughters image of me, but most significantly — I’m concerned that I have traumatized her.
I’m pleading for advice on how to heal this situation.
Okay, so I watch porn. Often alone, sometimes with my wife (I’m a guy) as a part of our sexual adventures. As a practice I normally close out any open windows and clear my browser history — but there were 2 times when I failed to do so, and when my daughter came to me asking a question that I needed to Google, she was looking over my shoulder when I switched apps in iOS and she saw something she shouldn’t have. Both times I wasn’t sure if she actually saw the screen, and quickly closed them and let it go without mentioning it. One time when switching apps, Tumblr was in the background and she saw a man on top of another man (I’ve recently become curious and stimulated by bisexual porn.)
This morning she left a note torn out of her journal in my home office. She asked me to delete the bookmarks with porn on my phone and iPad, and said that when she learned I watched porn it “scared me forever.” She wrote that she cried herself to sleep thinking about me watching stuff like that. She asked me to not talk about it in person — and also wrote that she is sometimes uncomfortable around me.
She wrote “I will give you anything for you to stop watching porn. Don’t take to me about this, please?” and “I don’t want a therapist because I don’t trust them, now I can’t trust anyone.” She ended the note with “It sucks when the only person who can make you feel better is also the person who made you cry.”
I’m heart broken. I feel shame, guilt, self-loathing for letting this happen. I feel deep sadness that I’ve shattered my beautiful daughters image of me, but most significantly — I’m concerned that I have traumatized her.
I’m pleading for advice on how to heal this situation.
I am not a parent, but I was a twelve-year-old (or even slightly younger) girl who found my dad's stash of Penthouse and Playboy magazines. They were just tucked under his side of the bed and I was snooping. It did not change how I thought of my dad. My parents were fairly open about sexuality and willing to answer my questions when asked without making things uncomfortable.
Part of this sounds like 12-year-old girl drama. But her feelings are her feelings and need to be respected. But you are an adult, and you get to have and explore your sexuality.
You are going to have to have a conversation with her, probably best done with her mother there as well. You might want to start by asking her why this scared and disturbed her so much. She's obviously had some conversations somewhere that have led her to believe that porn is bad and looking at porn makes you bad. See if you can get her to talk about her feelings. Why would seeing that you view porn make her trust you less? It could be that she equates it with cheating. That is where your wife needs to let her know that she is aware of your viewing habits and even enjoys some porn herself.
Then you need to have a loooonnng conversation about how this is normal, lots of adults do this, it does not make you in anyway a bad person. BUT also that this is an adult thing and a private thing between you and your wife. Then apologize for not being more careful about closing out of porn sites on shared devices. Then maybe think about getting a "porn only" device for yourself and restrict your viewing to that.
I think if you acknowledge her feelings as valid, while addressing any misconceptions she might have that made her react so strongly, you'll be back on your way to building trust again. The apology about not doing a good job of keeping your private things private is also a good way to build that trust.
posted by agatha_magatha at 2:36 PM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
Part of this sounds like 12-year-old girl drama. But her feelings are her feelings and need to be respected. But you are an adult, and you get to have and explore your sexuality.
You are going to have to have a conversation with her, probably best done with her mother there as well. You might want to start by asking her why this scared and disturbed her so much. She's obviously had some conversations somewhere that have led her to believe that porn is bad and looking at porn makes you bad. See if you can get her to talk about her feelings. Why would seeing that you view porn make her trust you less? It could be that she equates it with cheating. That is where your wife needs to let her know that she is aware of your viewing habits and even enjoys some porn herself.
Then you need to have a loooonnng conversation about how this is normal, lots of adults do this, it does not make you in anyway a bad person. BUT also that this is an adult thing and a private thing between you and your wife. Then apologize for not being more careful about closing out of porn sites on shared devices. Then maybe think about getting a "porn only" device for yourself and restrict your viewing to that.
I think if you acknowledge her feelings as valid, while addressing any misconceptions she might have that made her react so strongly, you'll be back on your way to building trust again. The apology about not doing a good job of keeping your private things private is also a good way to build that trust.
posted by agatha_magatha at 2:36 PM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
OK so I have some questions and feel free to follow up via the contact form if you'd like but
- is your wife also your daughter's mom? because that "only person who can make me feel better" is sort of hanging there.
- Is your porn viewing somehow not happening during private times? Because I'm also a pro-porn person, but someone who has porn where someone else accidentally sees it is a red flag situation in a few ways and that should be addressed more than "The two times I didn't close my windows my daughter saw it"
Because, yeah I've been a 12 year old girl who saw my dad's porn stash--I am old so it was print--and some of it was stuff I didn't understand and I was just like "Well dad is weird" (in a kid way) and kind of moved on. We never talked about it, it would never occur to me that this was something I'd have any control over.
I agree entirely with agatha_magatha, her feelings are her feelings. That doesn't mean she gets to dictate how you and your wife interact or how you interact with porn, or what you bookmark UNLESS she uses your devices in which case, yeah put your bookmarks elsewhere, that's actually a fair ask.
And my only suggestion would be if your wife is not the kid's mom to keep your wife out of it except to say she knows and is okay with it. And to also suggest that if your daughter has a mom who is not your wife and you get along with her mom, to maybe bring this up with her if possible because your daughter is clearly super upset and it's worth understanding where that comes from especially if the household you are in now is sex-positive.
posted by jessamyn at 2:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [43 favorites]
- is your wife also your daughter's mom? because that "only person who can make me feel better" is sort of hanging there.
- Is your porn viewing somehow not happening during private times? Because I'm also a pro-porn person, but someone who has porn where someone else accidentally sees it is a red flag situation in a few ways and that should be addressed more than "The two times I didn't close my windows my daughter saw it"
Because, yeah I've been a 12 year old girl who saw my dad's porn stash--I am old so it was print--and some of it was stuff I didn't understand and I was just like "Well dad is weird" (in a kid way) and kind of moved on. We never talked about it, it would never occur to me that this was something I'd have any control over.
I agree entirely with agatha_magatha, her feelings are her feelings. That doesn't mean she gets to dictate how you and your wife interact or how you interact with porn, or what you bookmark UNLESS she uses your devices in which case, yeah put your bookmarks elsewhere, that's actually a fair ask.
And my only suggestion would be if your wife is not the kid's mom to keep your wife out of it except to say she knows and is okay with it. And to also suggest that if your daughter has a mom who is not your wife and you get along with her mom, to maybe bring this up with her if possible because your daughter is clearly super upset and it's worth understanding where that comes from especially if the household you are in now is sex-positive.
posted by jessamyn at 2:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [43 favorites]
Please don't be ashamed because your daughter accidentally saw your porn. Yes to all the things above about her feelings being valid and it being reasonable for you to be more careful, but the fact of you watching porn is not something shameful.
It seems like you and your wife are generally positive about porn - is your daughter part of a world that's more conservative about sex than what your values are? The "shattered image" thing plus her wanting you to never watch it again makes me think about that. I had a really strange mixed childhood where I grew up in a very conservative world that my mom had joined late in life, so she had some ideas that weren't as conservative as what I was being peer pressured toward and taught in school, and I fought with her over some of it because I thought she was wrong. In retrospect, as a totally lefty adult, I wish she'd had more clarity/strength/confidence in her own less-conservative values and found a way to impart those to me.
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:56 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
It seems like you and your wife are generally positive about porn - is your daughter part of a world that's more conservative about sex than what your values are? The "shattered image" thing plus her wanting you to never watch it again makes me think about that. I had a really strange mixed childhood where I grew up in a very conservative world that my mom had joined late in life, so she had some ideas that weren't as conservative as what I was being peer pressured toward and taught in school, and I fought with her over some of it because I thought she was wrong. In retrospect, as a totally lefty adult, I wish she'd had more clarity/strength/confidence in her own less-conservative values and found a way to impart those to me.
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:56 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
My profound sympathies, and a couple of comments:
1) try to let go of it on your side. In my experience, parenting is a long-distance gig, and your anxiety will be communicated (as will the notion that appropriate sexuality is nothing to be feared).
2) therapist yes. Especially for her (but maybe you too?) They're the skilled ones at creating trust and working effectively on emotional stuff, get their help on this asap.
Best of luck (and hoping that she's not reeeeally scarred).
posted by emmet at 3:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
1) try to let go of it on your side. In my experience, parenting is a long-distance gig, and your anxiety will be communicated (as will the notion that appropriate sexuality is nothing to be feared).
2) therapist yes. Especially for her (but maybe you too?) They're the skilled ones at creating trust and working effectively on emotional stuff, get their help on this asap.
Best of luck (and hoping that she's not reeeeally scarred).
posted by emmet at 3:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Personally, I think it comes down to whether this kind of reaction is within the norm for your daughter or really does indicate a unique level of being upset.
If it's the former: she's twelve and is likely entering a normal developmental phase where everything her parents do is cringe, sex is cringe, and putting them together is CRINGE (worthy of popular teary Instagram quotes like "What do you do when the only person who can make you stop crying is the person who made you cry?"). In this case, I'd start using a separate browser or device for adult content if you think there's the slightest chance of your daughter glimpsing your private browsing again, let the subject lie for a week or two, and then after this short cool-down period make sure she has access to age-appropriate and sex-positive resources she can investigate at her own pace to help work through some of the ideas she's grappling with as a pubescent girl in a world with a lot of scary messaging about sex. She'll likely come around to understanding that you can't dictate other people's sex lives and will just be embarrassed about her earnest note in a few months' time. If your wife is her mother, or if her mother is in the picture, she should be the deliverer of these resources and contact point for questions. As dramatic as your daughter's note was, the fact that she felt comfortable expressing her feelings is overall a good thing, even if the demands aren't appropriate ones.
On the other hand, if this kind of reaction is out of character for your daughter (or if you have reason to think this is coming from her having encountered something upsetting in another context), then having a family talk with her and her mother about what happened may be necessary. I'd imagine this would involve something along the lines of explaining as a team with your wife that adult pictures and videos are things that grown-ups make their own decisions about viewing in private, and that it's normal, but that you're very sorry you weren't careful enough about keeping it private. You could listen if she's willing to talk about why she found that so upsetting, and if the conversation goes in a constructive place, maybe commit to all making some rules that the whole family can be comfortable about with regards to privacy as adults and some becoming-an-adult sharing a house. If this turns out to be a bigger issue and she can be talked into at least seeing if she can try trusting a therapist, she might benefit from some one-on-support navigating this difficult phase of life as a sensitive kid.
You don't mention what your wife thinks of this, presumably because your ask is focused on your relationship with your daughter. But just in case it doesn't go without saying, your wife needs to know about this and be involved in how you address it. If your wife isn't your daughter's mother, her mother may also be better able to support her if she knows about this.
posted by northernish at 3:02 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
If it's the former: she's twelve and is likely entering a normal developmental phase where everything her parents do is cringe, sex is cringe, and putting them together is CRINGE (worthy of popular teary Instagram quotes like "What do you do when the only person who can make you stop crying is the person who made you cry?"). In this case, I'd start using a separate browser or device for adult content if you think there's the slightest chance of your daughter glimpsing your private browsing again, let the subject lie for a week or two, and then after this short cool-down period make sure she has access to age-appropriate and sex-positive resources she can investigate at her own pace to help work through some of the ideas she's grappling with as a pubescent girl in a world with a lot of scary messaging about sex. She'll likely come around to understanding that you can't dictate other people's sex lives and will just be embarrassed about her earnest note in a few months' time. If your wife is her mother, or if her mother is in the picture, she should be the deliverer of these resources and contact point for questions. As dramatic as your daughter's note was, the fact that she felt comfortable expressing her feelings is overall a good thing, even if the demands aren't appropriate ones.
On the other hand, if this kind of reaction is out of character for your daughter (or if you have reason to think this is coming from her having encountered something upsetting in another context), then having a family talk with her and her mother about what happened may be necessary. I'd imagine this would involve something along the lines of explaining as a team with your wife that adult pictures and videos are things that grown-ups make their own decisions about viewing in private, and that it's normal, but that you're very sorry you weren't careful enough about keeping it private. You could listen if she's willing to talk about why she found that so upsetting, and if the conversation goes in a constructive place, maybe commit to all making some rules that the whole family can be comfortable about with regards to privacy as adults and some becoming-an-adult sharing a house. If this turns out to be a bigger issue and she can be talked into at least seeing if she can try trusting a therapist, she might benefit from some one-on-support navigating this difficult phase of life as a sensitive kid.
You don't mention what your wife thinks of this, presumably because your ask is focused on your relationship with your daughter. But just in case it doesn't go without saying, your wife needs to know about this and be involved in how you address it. If your wife isn't your daughter's mother, her mother may also be better able to support her if she knows about this.
posted by northernish at 3:02 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
If I were you, I'd find a really really great therapist who works with adolescents, or maybe two or three, and ask their advice. Maybe book sessions so you are paying for their time and advice.
I think this deserves expertise beyond the ken of "I saw my Dad's magazines when I was a kid".
I'm not sure whether talking face to face would be good or bad. I'm not sure whether writing a note would be better. I'm not sure whether sending her to a therapist and making her _think about it more_ would be a good thing. I'm not sure whether ignoring the whole thing would be good. A lot hinges on who she is, how she is, what you're like, what your relationship is like -- and a professional will know what questions to ask to find a recommended course for you.
I'm a little appalled at the reference to "just 12-year-old drama." I mean, yeah, being the age where you're figuring out who you are IS DRAMATIC, and this is a legit hard situation. Geez.
posted by amtho at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
I think this deserves expertise beyond the ken of "I saw my Dad's magazines when I was a kid".
I'm not sure whether talking face to face would be good or bad. I'm not sure whether writing a note would be better. I'm not sure whether sending her to a therapist and making her _think about it more_ would be a good thing. I'm not sure whether ignoring the whole thing would be good. A lot hinges on who she is, how she is, what you're like, what your relationship is like -- and a professional will know what questions to ask to find a recommended course for you.
I'm a little appalled at the reference to "just 12-year-old drama." I mean, yeah, being the age where you're figuring out who you are IS DRAMATIC, and this is a legit hard situation. Geez.
posted by amtho at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
> she wrote that she is sometimes uncomfortable around me
This is a red flag to me especially if, as it seems, it's not a direct result of seeing the porn but predates it. Perhaps talk about it with her mom in the room with you? Or at least at a time and place of your daughter's choosing. And you need to just listen. Listen. Listen. Listen some more. If in-person is too uncomfortable for her, let her know it is safe for her to write you about this.
Regarding the porn itself, it's a tricky balance between "porn is normal, and ok if shared by consenting adults," and the very real world we live in where most accessible porn is exploitative and perpetuates ideas that will likely impact your daughter's sexual and non-sexual experiences on a daily basis, as well as her own romantic relationships. If her school handles sex ed at all, she may be getting some gritty (realistic, necessary) messages about porn that conflict with your own understanding and use of it. So there is a gender, generational, and power gap in this one experience that is very weighty.
If I were you, I would delete the links and bookmarks and history on your devices, as she has requested. I would write her and tell her I'd done so. I would say you want to understand her point of view better, so that this is not an unrecoverable point in your relationship but a point of learning for you. If you are able to get a ways down that path (many conversations or letters or whatever) only then would I start to express some "porn is normal" point of view (and even then, just as a statement rather than a deep topic). I'd also get a dedicated device for the time being that eliminates the chances she'll discover your internet history, etc.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:20 PM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
This is a red flag to me especially if, as it seems, it's not a direct result of seeing the porn but predates it. Perhaps talk about it with her mom in the room with you? Or at least at a time and place of your daughter's choosing. And you need to just listen. Listen. Listen. Listen some more. If in-person is too uncomfortable for her, let her know it is safe for her to write you about this.
Regarding the porn itself, it's a tricky balance between "porn is normal, and ok if shared by consenting adults," and the very real world we live in where most accessible porn is exploitative and perpetuates ideas that will likely impact your daughter's sexual and non-sexual experiences on a daily basis, as well as her own romantic relationships. If her school handles sex ed at all, she may be getting some gritty (realistic, necessary) messages about porn that conflict with your own understanding and use of it. So there is a gender, generational, and power gap in this one experience that is very weighty.
If I were you, I would delete the links and bookmarks and history on your devices, as she has requested. I would write her and tell her I'd done so. I would say you want to understand her point of view better, so that this is not an unrecoverable point in your relationship but a point of learning for you. If you are able to get a ways down that path (many conversations or letters or whatever) only then would I start to express some "porn is normal" point of view (and even then, just as a statement rather than a deep topic). I'd also get a dedicated device for the time being that eliminates the chances she'll discover your internet history, etc.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:20 PM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
You started this by saying, "I watch porn," as though you feel you should apologize for that. That's actually not the point. The point is you're watching porn on devices THAT CHILDREN CAN ACCESS. In fact, you questioned MORE THAN ONCE if your daughter saw your screen, and you still did not change your habits. (Are you really keeping porn bookmarks on devices kids can access.) It is YOUR responsibility to keep those boundaries and keep that private, and you didn't do it even when you knew that line may have been crossed.
Listen to your daughter when she tells you she is uncomfortable around you, and listen to her when she tells you she doesn't want to talk to you right now. She feels violated, so please respect the boundaries she is placing. She gets that time right now. You can confer with whatever other parental or adult figure is important in her life to figure out next steps. Don't ambush her with a bunch of "porn is normal, adults are sexual" lectures that are just meant, at this moment in time, to assuage your guilt and shame. And on to my last point -->
I'm not here to debate if porn is good or bad, but I will say: all porn is not made equal. Did she see people having sex, or did she see a woman who looked like she was in pain and being abused (and maybe without her consent)? Or any one of the other terrible incredibly violent things that happen to women in porn these days (again often w/out the woman's consent, and/or without her consent that the video be put online) that we call "normal!" and "everyone does it!!" and "all women are into this!!" Because the fact is, this is not just about parents and their sexuality and the grossness of that. She may have also felt morally betrayed and deeply confused depending on what she saw; so again, don't try to tell her this is normal and "all adults do it." And especially don't do this to a young woman in this online world where they are often taught to perform and act as sexual beings (and are told their worth derives from their sexuality) often before they understand what is being asked of them, and before they understand how dangerous and ultimately devastating that message truly is.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 3:32 PM on January 11, 2021 [126 favorites]
Listen to your daughter when she tells you she is uncomfortable around you, and listen to her when she tells you she doesn't want to talk to you right now. She feels violated, so please respect the boundaries she is placing. She gets that time right now. You can confer with whatever other parental or adult figure is important in her life to figure out next steps. Don't ambush her with a bunch of "porn is normal, adults are sexual" lectures that are just meant, at this moment in time, to assuage your guilt and shame. And on to my last point -->
I'm not here to debate if porn is good or bad, but I will say: all porn is not made equal. Did she see people having sex, or did she see a woman who looked like she was in pain and being abused (and maybe without her consent)? Or any one of the other terrible incredibly violent things that happen to women in porn these days (again often w/out the woman's consent, and/or without her consent that the video be put online) that we call "normal!" and "everyone does it!!" and "all women are into this!!" Because the fact is, this is not just about parents and their sexuality and the grossness of that. She may have also felt morally betrayed and deeply confused depending on what she saw; so again, don't try to tell her this is normal and "all adults do it." And especially don't do this to a young woman in this online world where they are often taught to perform and act as sexual beings (and are told their worth derives from their sexuality) often before they understand what is being asked of them, and before they understand how dangerous and ultimately devastating that message truly is.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 3:32 PM on January 11, 2021 [126 favorites]
When I was twelve (and I am a woman if that matters), I started watching porn out of curiosity. My Dad discovered this -- and then he conferred with my mom about it. They sat me down and explained gently that I was far too young to watch porn, but it was okay that I was curious and that one time I will be able to figure out what I want to watch.
I still remember that many many years later. I'm so lucky that they responded with openness and gentleness. I think a big reason why I am so comfortable in my sexuality is because of them. And yeah, I watch porn from time to time but try to not watch too much.
In some ways, this is an opportunity to talk to your daughter with your wife-- and give her a gift in return. It should be on her terms, of course. It sounds like she may prefer a letter. I don't know. I can't speak to how and what is the best way to approach (a therapist is probably better than me), but I am chiming in here to share that experience.
You mention shame and guilt. I get that. But know that porn watching is normal, and even exploring bisexual feelings are normal. Your wife is involved, so you are not doing something outside of what she knows. I agree that your daughter may be worried your wife (her mom?) doesn't know.
And yes, not all porn is equal...but I don't think that is in the scope of this question.
posted by treetop89 at 3:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
I still remember that many many years later. I'm so lucky that they responded with openness and gentleness. I think a big reason why I am so comfortable in my sexuality is because of them. And yeah, I watch porn from time to time but try to not watch too much.
In some ways, this is an opportunity to talk to your daughter with your wife-- and give her a gift in return. It should be on her terms, of course. It sounds like she may prefer a letter. I don't know. I can't speak to how and what is the best way to approach (a therapist is probably better than me), but I am chiming in here to share that experience.
You mention shame and guilt. I get that. But know that porn watching is normal, and even exploring bisexual feelings are normal. Your wife is involved, so you are not doing something outside of what she knows. I agree that your daughter may be worried your wife (her mom?) doesn't know.
And yes, not all porn is equal...but I don't think that is in the scope of this question.
posted by treetop89 at 3:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed -- totally fine to highlight what other people are saying but not necessary to blockquote the comment directly above yours
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
I agree with namemeansgazelle. This isn't just about porn or the fact that you watch it. It sounds like there is a whole lot of context worth exploring (and agree that it may be time to recruit a therapist's help with that). I am wondering about where and when you're watching porn that your daughter has twice accidentally viewed it over your shoulder.
posted by Viola Swamp at 3:56 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Viola Swamp at 3:56 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Your daughter is 12 years old in a world thick with talk about sex trafficking and onlyfans and Jeffery Epstein and Brett Kavanaugh and the president's "grab 'em by the -" quote along with honest conversations about how most porn doesn't reflect real and consensual relationships. It's a different universe then when we older folks found our dad's/brother's magazine stashes.
Write back telling her that you will delete your bookmarks on your shared devices and that you will make sure she will not be exposed to porn in *her* home. Write that if she has any questions about what she saw or why you were watching that she can write you a note back. And then you take it from there. There may be a chance to normalize it a little further down the road. But for now, I think it's fair to do everything you can to make sure she doesn't see it.
I know it's so difficult to get privacy these days, but maybe you can watch porn in your bed at bedtime as opposed to the office during the day? With headphones on a cheap password protected tablet?
posted by kimberussell at 4:03 PM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
Write back telling her that you will delete your bookmarks on your shared devices and that you will make sure she will not be exposed to porn in *her* home. Write that if she has any questions about what she saw or why you were watching that she can write you a note back. And then you take it from there. There may be a chance to normalize it a little further down the road. But for now, I think it's fair to do everything you can to make sure she doesn't see it.
I know it's so difficult to get privacy these days, but maybe you can watch porn in your bed at bedtime as opposed to the office during the day? With headphones on a cheap password protected tablet?
posted by kimberussell at 4:03 PM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
Watching porn is fine. Watching it when and where your daughter can accidentally see it is absolutely not okay. That needs to be done in private--she clearly does not want to see this so I don't believe she was sneaking up on you or intruding in your private space. Also, did she just see porn or has she also seen you masturbating or erect?
Also, it is not appropriate to have bookmarks for porn on a device you let your child use. Again, she doesn't seem like she's searching this out, so a I'm guessing this is really easy to find and the names on the bookmarks are explicit.
This is not the same as her stumbling on your dirty magazines. This is you keeping your dirty magazines on display on your bookshelf and her sometimes walking into the kitchen while you're perusing the latest issue. This is a massive violation and it is not okay to call it "sex positive", any more than it would be for you to have sex in the kitchen in the middle of the night and be shocked if she came down for a glass of water.
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 4:05 PM on January 11, 2021 [73 favorites]
Also, it is not appropriate to have bookmarks for porn on a device you let your child use. Again, she doesn't seem like she's searching this out, so a I'm guessing this is really easy to find and the names on the bookmarks are explicit.
This is not the same as her stumbling on your dirty magazines. This is you keeping your dirty magazines on display on your bookshelf and her sometimes walking into the kitchen while you're perusing the latest issue. This is a massive violation and it is not okay to call it "sex positive", any more than it would be for you to have sex in the kitchen in the middle of the night and be shocked if she came down for a glass of water.
posted by jessica fletcher did it at 4:05 PM on January 11, 2021 [73 favorites]
PLEASE RESPECT THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
I think YOU should go to counseling. You alone. You shouldn't have accidently let her see this but this is not the end of the world. You made a mistake.
This is not an emergency. So you can go to counseling for , say, six months, before you decide your next move to repair your relationship.
Announce that you are going for counseling but don't say why. She can assume you are going for this situation but don't make her talk about it or explain anything to her unless she asks. In that way you are respecting the boundaries she put on this. Please respect her boundaries.
You did a dumb thing. She over-reacted. This is all going to turn out OK. Don't worry. Take it slow, talk to a therapist about this, don't make her go to therapy, respect her boundaries.
posted by cda at 4:07 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
I think YOU should go to counseling. You alone. You shouldn't have accidently let her see this but this is not the end of the world. You made a mistake.
This is not an emergency. So you can go to counseling for , say, six months, before you decide your next move to repair your relationship.
Announce that you are going for counseling but don't say why. She can assume you are going for this situation but don't make her talk about it or explain anything to her unless she asks. In that way you are respecting the boundaries she put on this. Please respect her boundaries.
You did a dumb thing. She over-reacted. This is all going to turn out OK. Don't worry. Take it slow, talk to a therapist about this, don't make her go to therapy, respect her boundaries.
posted by cda at 4:07 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
I absolutely urge you to not force her to talk to you about this to your face or anyone else's. Not to start with, at least.
I think you should start with leaving her a note with an apology that you have let her down and hurt and shocked her. Don't weasel-apologize - no "that I made you feel" or "that you think". You let her down, you really upset her, she feels uncomfortable and you are sorry and you will work to make amends.
Tell her that you have failed her in two critical ways:
1) Responsible adults take every possible precaution so their kids (coworkers, etc) aren't forced to see adult content, and you extremely didn't do that
2) It is parents' responsibility to help their kids understand (safely and age-appropriately) how human sexuality works and how things like pornography fit in that context, and if you had done that maybe she wouldn't have been so hurt and shocked to discover the fact of it, though still angry at you for not keeping her safe from seeing it.
Note: if your child is a big stickler for rules and laws, you may also need to reassure her that she's not going to get in trouble/arrested/suspended for what she saw even though it's legally only for adults to see. (This tormented me in my own childhood "magazine in a stack in the garage" incident.) She may also think it is illegal for you to be watching it and that you might go to jail and never come back.
You should also say that while you're not going to force her to go tell a therapist about this incident, you've also let her down because you haven't taught her that therapy has a normal and important function in people's lives. And that yeah, first you're going to go to one yourself and then eventually the whole family is going to go to therapy to get lessons in how to communicate better about difficult topics in general, but the point of going is not going to be to make her talk about these incidents. But people do go talk to therapists when they experience trauma, so she could if one day she wanted to about this or anything else.
Look, there may be more to this than what you know. Or, this may be the first time she's been really let down by an adult and that is a real shit turning point for almost everyone. Some of this you're going to have to wait and see how it plays out.
It is okay to communicate about this in writing for a while if that's what works for her. And it does, for a lot of kids, and it's way better than not communicating about it at all. Open that channel, encourage her to keep using it.
If you're ready to say this, I think it's okay to tell her that she is always welcome to privately read the Scarleteen website out of your view if she has questions she doesn't want to talk to you about.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:13 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
I think you should start with leaving her a note with an apology that you have let her down and hurt and shocked her. Don't weasel-apologize - no "that I made you feel" or "that you think". You let her down, you really upset her, she feels uncomfortable and you are sorry and you will work to make amends.
Tell her that you have failed her in two critical ways:
1) Responsible adults take every possible precaution so their kids (coworkers, etc) aren't forced to see adult content, and you extremely didn't do that
2) It is parents' responsibility to help their kids understand (safely and age-appropriately) how human sexuality works and how things like pornography fit in that context, and if you had done that maybe she wouldn't have been so hurt and shocked to discover the fact of it, though still angry at you for not keeping her safe from seeing it.
Note: if your child is a big stickler for rules and laws, you may also need to reassure her that she's not going to get in trouble/arrested/suspended for what she saw even though it's legally only for adults to see. (This tormented me in my own childhood "magazine in a stack in the garage" incident.) She may also think it is illegal for you to be watching it and that you might go to jail and never come back.
You should also say that while you're not going to force her to go tell a therapist about this incident, you've also let her down because you haven't taught her that therapy has a normal and important function in people's lives. And that yeah, first you're going to go to one yourself and then eventually the whole family is going to go to therapy to get lessons in how to communicate better about difficult topics in general, but the point of going is not going to be to make her talk about these incidents. But people do go talk to therapists when they experience trauma, so she could if one day she wanted to about this or anything else.
Look, there may be more to this than what you know. Or, this may be the first time she's been really let down by an adult and that is a real shit turning point for almost everyone. Some of this you're going to have to wait and see how it plays out.
It is okay to communicate about this in writing for a while if that's what works for her. And it does, for a lot of kids, and it's way better than not communicating about it at all. Open that channel, encourage her to keep using it.
If you're ready to say this, I think it's okay to tell her that she is always welcome to privately read the Scarleteen website out of your view if she has questions she doesn't want to talk to you about.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:13 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
I’m so grateful to the responses thus far and have some clarifications based on comments and questions:posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:17 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
1. My wife is the mother of my daughter.
2. I’ve explained the situation with my wife, and for the moment she is pretending to know nothing about it. I like the recommendations to bring her into the dialog. We will do so when the time is right, and will follow my daughters cues on the right timing.
3. Before any of these responses came through — I left a note on my daughters desk, thanking her for her courage in writing the note, apologizing that she has to deal with this situation, telling her that when she’s ready it’s something we can discuss further, and telling her I love her. I left it at that, but there is some understandable awkwardness between us. I’m hoping things will cool down.
4. The porn she saw on my screen was not of the violent or demeaning sort, as I do not enjoy that.
5. What she saw as on my own personal (not shared) iPad, which syncs between my iPhone and iPad only, and no other devices in our household. What she saw was an image in an open and inactive app when I switched from one app to another without realizing that the Tubmlr app was still active in the background.
I agree with cda that some answers here are missing the point. The important thing here, IMO, is that your daughter feels respected and listened to as a person. That means you should respect her wishes as far as you reasonably can, in other words:
- don't make her talk to you about it in person (she specifically asked you not to do this; I would also advise against leaving a note or letter for her, since she appears to not want you to make this into A Thing and that will be making it into A Thing)
- don't make her go to a therapist (she specifically asked you not to do this)
- delete the bookmarks (I agree you should also probably get a private, password locked, unlinked device for porn browsing)
I also agree that this isn't "just 12 year old drama" but you should also try to keep in mind that what she's written was likely done in the heat of the moment and your relationship, while slightly dented, may not be damaged forever. When I was around her age I found naked photos of my parents on a camera. I was grossed out and it took me a couple of days to think it through, and in the moment I probably would have reacted in a similar way to your daughter, but after some time I was able to deal with it and accept this new perspective on my parents.
It sounds to me as though your daughter, while hurt, just wants to move on from this. Respect that. Talk to your wife about it and why you're both going to need to be more respectful and careful about your porn use. But otherwise prove to your daughter that her words have had an impact and listen to what she's telling you.
posted by fight or flight at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2021
- don't make her talk to you about it in person (she specifically asked you not to do this; I would also advise against leaving a note or letter for her, since she appears to not want you to make this into A Thing and that will be making it into A Thing)
- don't make her go to a therapist (she specifically asked you not to do this)
- delete the bookmarks (I agree you should also probably get a private, password locked, unlinked device for porn browsing)
I also agree that this isn't "just 12 year old drama" but you should also try to keep in mind that what she's written was likely done in the heat of the moment and your relationship, while slightly dented, may not be damaged forever. When I was around her age I found naked photos of my parents on a camera. I was grossed out and it took me a couple of days to think it through, and in the moment I probably would have reacted in a similar way to your daughter, but after some time I was able to deal with it and accept this new perspective on my parents.
It sounds to me as though your daughter, while hurt, just wants to move on from this. Respect that. Talk to your wife about it and why you're both going to need to be more respectful and careful about your porn use. But otherwise prove to your daughter that her words have had an impact and listen to what she's telling you.
posted by fight or flight at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2021
a 12 year old shouldn't have to worry about whether she's going to see pornographic images on the tools she needs to access in her own home. Porn isn't the same as human sexuality. This has nothing to do with being sex positive. this is about basic boundaries and emotional safety for your child.
Erase all of it from any device that the kid could ever access. all links, history etc. For your own personal porn use get a $40 Fire tablet the next time they're on sale, password protect it, keep it in a private place and don't use it before she's in bed for the night and dont' link it to any other device.
Re the discussion: don't bring it up with her. You can leave her a note that says "I'm deeply sorry you saw that, it's adult material and something that MANY YEARS FROM NOW you can ask me about if you want, but I should never have left it around where you could see it. Thank you for letting me know." [eta sounds like you did that. good!]
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Erase all of it from any device that the kid could ever access. all links, history etc. For your own personal porn use get a $40 Fire tablet the next time they're on sale, password protect it, keep it in a private place and don't use it before she's in bed for the night and dont' link it to any other device.
Re the discussion: don't bring it up with her. You can leave her a note that says "I'm deeply sorry you saw that, it's adult material and something that MANY YEARS FROM NOW you can ask me about if you want, but I should never have left it around where you could see it. Thank you for letting me know." [eta sounds like you did that. good!]
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
On your update: ignore the bit about the note. What you've done sounds reasonable and I'm glad her mom is taking the right cues as well.
Having thought about it a little more and seeing your note about it being Tumblr/gay porn specifically, I wonder if part of her reaction might be around the fact that she may be confused about you exploring bisexuality, and whether she thinks this is an indicator that you might be cheating, or a similar sort of "what does this mean for my mom and dad" reaction. Do you think this is likely based on what you know she might have seen?
If so, this may be something you might need to address regardless of her boundaries, which I would suggest happens through your wife potentially talking (gently, privately) to her about your sexuality and her awareness/consent in what you're doing. I would suggest making a little effort around the house in general to make sure she's got lots of access to positive LGBT+ role models and consider (at some point down the road, not now obviously) whether she might want to talk to you about your sexuality, and how you're going to have that conversation.
posted by fight or flight at 4:26 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Having thought about it a little more and seeing your note about it being Tumblr/gay porn specifically, I wonder if part of her reaction might be around the fact that she may be confused about you exploring bisexuality, and whether she thinks this is an indicator that you might be cheating, or a similar sort of "what does this mean for my mom and dad" reaction. Do you think this is likely based on what you know she might have seen?
If so, this may be something you might need to address regardless of her boundaries, which I would suggest happens through your wife potentially talking (gently, privately) to her about your sexuality and her awareness/consent in what you're doing. I would suggest making a little effort around the house in general to make sure she's got lots of access to positive LGBT+ role models and consider (at some point down the road, not now obviously) whether she might want to talk to you about your sexuality, and how you're going to have that conversation.
posted by fight or flight at 4:26 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
On some level, it's really important for a kid your daughter's age to understand boundaries, and how to respect others'. Her reaction demonstrated a lack of respect for your boundaries, and that needs to be an important part of the message.
Let your daughter know that it's okay to have feelings about other peoples' activities and that yes, it's perfectly normal and natural to feel skeeved out by evidence that your parents are sexual beings. Beyond that, I think it's really, really important that you emphasize that feeling grossed out about things that do not directly affect you don't make it acceptable to react in the way that she did. Regardless of her feelings, as long as she doesn't have access to your porn, it has nothing to do with her and she must understand that she is not in a position to litigate parts of your life that do not concern her.
Depending on how much you've talked about sex and porn with her, linking this to a broader discussion about bodily autonomy is important. As some answers suggested above, she may not know where to slot porn into her understanding of consent and sexuality, which is probably a big part of why this played out as it has. That's a bigger, more complicated discussion to have.
posted by blerghamot at 4:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
Let your daughter know that it's okay to have feelings about other peoples' activities and that yes, it's perfectly normal and natural to feel skeeved out by evidence that your parents are sexual beings. Beyond that, I think it's really, really important that you emphasize that feeling grossed out about things that do not directly affect you don't make it acceptable to react in the way that she did. Regardless of her feelings, as long as she doesn't have access to your porn, it has nothing to do with her and she must understand that she is not in a position to litigate parts of your life that do not concern her.
Depending on how much you've talked about sex and porn with her, linking this to a broader discussion about bodily autonomy is important. As some answers suggested above, she may not know where to slot porn into her understanding of consent and sexuality, which is probably a big part of why this played out as it has. That's a bigger, more complicated discussion to have.
posted by blerghamot at 4:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
Any question about kids is going to inflame opinions, so be prepared for that.
I'm a stepdad to three lovely kids. I was married to their dad for a long time, I'm a man, and the kids split their time between living with is and living with their mom. They're all over 18 now and they've grown up into happy, healthy young adults (who now are comfortable enough to retell some of these stories with a laugh, as they are now part of family lore rather than moments of youth horror).
You don't need to delete your porn. In the same was that you don't need to be asexual once kids enter the picture. Only one of my kids ever noticed any porn (a dvd got left in a player), and we talked with him about it (because it did startle him and make him feel very uncomfortable). But *all three* kids walked in on us or overheard us having sex. We live in a sense city, in a tiny house. It's hard to manage these things, but we weren't going to stop being sexually active. It led to a lot of good conversations about mutual respect (if our door is locked, don't linger at the door listening to what's going on; if you're going to pop back over to the house in the middle of the night because you forgot something for your sleepover, give us a call; daddy and daddy will be extra careful to make sure you don't see something because we forgot to put it away).
Respectfully to the other suggestions, you can respect a child's discomfort without allowing them to make the decisions on how to parent. I think there's no way to address your daughter's concerns without... involving your daughter. It's sensible advice for you to reach out to a family therapist for ideas on how best to make sure your daughter feels safe and as comfortable as possible when you address this as a family issue. We did this with our middle kid and, not that this is the case for your daughter, but our conversations with a therapist initially helped us broach the topic with our young one and, over a much longer period, helped her father the language that would help her come out to us (as an adult, she's specifically mentioned how important her conversations with the therapist were in her coming out process—she had a professional to sandbox her thoughts with, rather than only relying on the internet and word of mouth from her peers).
Hang in there. It's awkward but I don't think you've done anything that should make you feel anything more than embarrassed.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:46 PM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
I'm a stepdad to three lovely kids. I was married to their dad for a long time, I'm a man, and the kids split their time between living with is and living with their mom. They're all over 18 now and they've grown up into happy, healthy young adults (who now are comfortable enough to retell some of these stories with a laugh, as they are now part of family lore rather than moments of youth horror).
You don't need to delete your porn. In the same was that you don't need to be asexual once kids enter the picture. Only one of my kids ever noticed any porn (a dvd got left in a player), and we talked with him about it (because it did startle him and make him feel very uncomfortable). But *all three* kids walked in on us or overheard us having sex. We live in a sense city, in a tiny house. It's hard to manage these things, but we weren't going to stop being sexually active. It led to a lot of good conversations about mutual respect (if our door is locked, don't linger at the door listening to what's going on; if you're going to pop back over to the house in the middle of the night because you forgot something for your sleepover, give us a call; daddy and daddy will be extra careful to make sure you don't see something because we forgot to put it away).
Respectfully to the other suggestions, you can respect a child's discomfort without allowing them to make the decisions on how to parent. I think there's no way to address your daughter's concerns without... involving your daughter. It's sensible advice for you to reach out to a family therapist for ideas on how best to make sure your daughter feels safe and as comfortable as possible when you address this as a family issue. We did this with our middle kid and, not that this is the case for your daughter, but our conversations with a therapist initially helped us broach the topic with our young one and, over a much longer period, helped her father the language that would help her come out to us (as an adult, she's specifically mentioned how important her conversations with the therapist were in her coming out process—she had a professional to sandbox her thoughts with, rather than only relying on the internet and word of mouth from her peers).
Hang in there. It's awkward but I don't think you've done anything that should make you feel anything more than embarrassed.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:46 PM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
Ok, here's my take, and a story. If the porn was on your personal iPad and only syncs with your personal iPhone, then it's clear that you aren't watching porn on devices she uses or has access to. So that's taken care of already.
BUT, you say she saw an image on the Tumblr app that you had accidentally left open in the background while switching between two unrelated apps. Am I understanding that right?
In which case... you just need to get better at managing your own personal technology. Don't look at porn websites or on Tumblr and then forget to close the browser or the app when you're done. Even if it's your personal device, you've had two mishaps that seem to be due to your inability to close the damn apps when you're done.
Here's my story: over 20 years ago, in the days when most families just shared one desktop computer, my dad downloaded some naughty photos and didn't put them in an innocuous folder hidden somewhere I wouldn't look. There they were, just hanging out in the Downloads folder. Olden days of tech, he was a Luddite (still is). I found them. It was weird. I also wandered into the office once when he was looking at some sort of porn website - he closed the window quickly but I caught a glimpse. He prolly should have kept the office door shut but he may not have realized I was wandering around nearby. Who knows. Either way, these were failures to manage technology that made for some awkward discoveries on my part. I was 11 or so when this happened.
I felt a little uncomfortable around him for a while. Not betrayed, but it was weird, because I didn't want to think of him as a sexual being because ew that's my dad. I didn't (and still don't) know if my mom knew about it (she never used the computer). I never brought it up with him. After a while, it stopped bothering me. It didn't take long for me to get over it. And after I accidentally walked in on him looking at the porn website he got more savvy about hiding anything he may have downloaded or whatever, or stopped doing it.
So: manage your technology better. Close the damn app or browser window when you're done watching what you are watching. Simple as.
I don't know how to deal with the intensity of her response, her demands that you stop watching porn, or her feelings of hurt and betrayal. I can't really relate to it, and I don't have kids of my own. I do think it's a good idea to have her mom involved in whatever eventual conversation you have with her about this, so she knows that this isn't some secret that's gonna blow up your family or something.
Also, I think therapy - for you - couldn't hurt. The shame you feel here is so evident and it's not healthy and it's not going to help fix your relationship with your daughter. There is no shame in being a sexual person.
posted by nayantara at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
BUT, you say she saw an image on the Tumblr app that you had accidentally left open in the background while switching between two unrelated apps. Am I understanding that right?
In which case... you just need to get better at managing your own personal technology. Don't look at porn websites or on Tumblr and then forget to close the browser or the app when you're done. Even if it's your personal device, you've had two mishaps that seem to be due to your inability to close the damn apps when you're done.
Here's my story: over 20 years ago, in the days when most families just shared one desktop computer, my dad downloaded some naughty photos and didn't put them in an innocuous folder hidden somewhere I wouldn't look. There they were, just hanging out in the Downloads folder. Olden days of tech, he was a Luddite (still is). I found them. It was weird. I also wandered into the office once when he was looking at some sort of porn website - he closed the window quickly but I caught a glimpse. He prolly should have kept the office door shut but he may not have realized I was wandering around nearby. Who knows. Either way, these were failures to manage technology that made for some awkward discoveries on my part. I was 11 or so when this happened.
I felt a little uncomfortable around him for a while. Not betrayed, but it was weird, because I didn't want to think of him as a sexual being because ew that's my dad. I didn't (and still don't) know if my mom knew about it (she never used the computer). I never brought it up with him. After a while, it stopped bothering me. It didn't take long for me to get over it. And after I accidentally walked in on him looking at the porn website he got more savvy about hiding anything he may have downloaded or whatever, or stopped doing it.
So: manage your technology better. Close the damn app or browser window when you're done watching what you are watching. Simple as.
I don't know how to deal with the intensity of her response, her demands that you stop watching porn, or her feelings of hurt and betrayal. I can't really relate to it, and I don't have kids of my own. I do think it's a good idea to have her mom involved in whatever eventual conversation you have with her about this, so she knows that this isn't some secret that's gonna blow up your family or something.
Also, I think therapy - for you - couldn't hurt. The shame you feel here is so evident and it's not healthy and it's not going to help fix your relationship with your daughter. There is no shame in being a sexual person.
posted by nayantara at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah, you don't have anything to feel ashamed about. I mean, I think you should be more careful with some of the tech around this. That's it, though. And you should definitely talk to your wife about this. Does your daughter use the ipad? How does she know you have bookmarks, if you do? You should not be sharing a porn-viewing device with her.
More importantly: Your daughter is not in charge of your sexuality, of you as a sexual person, any more than you are in charge of her as a sexual person. She cannot dictate what you do and don't do, as long as it's consensual. It sounds like she has learned a lot of sex negativity. How do you all talk about sex and bodies in your house? About gay couples? About trans folks? She might have gotten all this elsewhere, or it could be that you all have (intentionally or not) taught her that there's something shameful about sex, or gay sex.
The New York Times had a fantastic article a few years ago called "What Teenagers Are Learning From Online Porn," and I really want you to read it. It focuses on what kinds learn about porn on their own, but I think it will help your framing in terms of your reaction to what happened, as well as how to have these conversations with her if she does raise the issue.
She is stirring up a ton of drama with this note. Yes, she had strong feelings. But you have not ruined her life, and you should NOT let her dictate your private sexual expression out of some weird guilt or shame. Talk to a family therapist, and your wife, and I think you will continue to discover that a LOT of adult women encountered a porn stash belong to a dad or stepdad, including me, as a kid, and for many of us, it made us realize our fathers might be sexual people, which isn't really what you want to think about, but it's also just something that is true. Of course we don't flaunt this in front of our kids, but we don't need to pretend that sex is something that only happens when babies are made, etc.
Your daughter is at a weird age, puberty, and she's probably crushing on other people, and it might be super weird for her to be thinking through all this. I guess I think you should honor her request not to talk to her, but! But! She didn't say don't write her a note. I wouldn't do this hastily, and I would put a lot of thought into it, and I would NOT do this if you're still mired in shame. But you could write her a kind and loving note, letting her know you love her and you are sorry for what she saw, she is welcome to talk to you or your wife. And that's maybe all you need to say.
Her sex negativity, and yours in reaction, are a big concern, so I do think therapy for you is a good idea.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:59 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
More importantly: Your daughter is not in charge of your sexuality, of you as a sexual person, any more than you are in charge of her as a sexual person. She cannot dictate what you do and don't do, as long as it's consensual. It sounds like she has learned a lot of sex negativity. How do you all talk about sex and bodies in your house? About gay couples? About trans folks? She might have gotten all this elsewhere, or it could be that you all have (intentionally or not) taught her that there's something shameful about sex, or gay sex.
The New York Times had a fantastic article a few years ago called "What Teenagers Are Learning From Online Porn," and I really want you to read it. It focuses on what kinds learn about porn on their own, but I think it will help your framing in terms of your reaction to what happened, as well as how to have these conversations with her if she does raise the issue.
She is stirring up a ton of drama with this note. Yes, she had strong feelings. But you have not ruined her life, and you should NOT let her dictate your private sexual expression out of some weird guilt or shame. Talk to a family therapist, and your wife, and I think you will continue to discover that a LOT of adult women encountered a porn stash belong to a dad or stepdad, including me, as a kid, and for many of us, it made us realize our fathers might be sexual people, which isn't really what you want to think about, but it's also just something that is true. Of course we don't flaunt this in front of our kids, but we don't need to pretend that sex is something that only happens when babies are made, etc.
Your daughter is at a weird age, puberty, and she's probably crushing on other people, and it might be super weird for her to be thinking through all this. I guess I think you should honor her request not to talk to her, but! But! She didn't say don't write her a note. I wouldn't do this hastily, and I would put a lot of thought into it, and I would NOT do this if you're still mired in shame. But you could write her a kind and loving note, letting her know you love her and you are sorry for what she saw, she is welcome to talk to you or your wife. And that's maybe all you need to say.
Her sex negativity, and yours in reaction, are a big concern, so I do think therapy for you is a good idea.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:59 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
When you don’t know much about real-world sexual relationships, porn, even the kind that may not strike the average adult as violent or distressing, is really disturbing.
She saw something (more than once) really disturbing and now has to contend with the fact that you like it.
posted by kapers at 5:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
She saw something (more than once) really disturbing and now has to contend with the fact that you like it.
posted by kapers at 5:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
Since it hasn't been brought up (or I missed it), I want to call out that it's quite possible that your daughter has been exposed to porn outside of these two images. Most kids will see some form of pornography by the time they are 11. One reason your daughter may have had such a strong reaction is because she equates the porn you are viewing with more extreme imagery or videos that she has seen because a friend showed her. Maybe a friend sent a sext to a boy or girl and it's been shared widely, maybe friends are pushing each other to engage in explicit behavior in chat rooms, maybe a friend of hers is in trouble. I don't mean to be alarmist, but it's quite possible that stuff is going on in her friend group that she hasn't told you and that is creating anxiety and stress about relationships and sex.
Beyond a discussion about your own use of porn, you need to be having semi-regular discussions about healthy sexuality, relationships, ethical online behavior, and the values that should guide someone as they navigate a really fraught time in their development. You can't just have a one-off birds and bees conversation and call it good.
posted by brookeb at 5:17 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
Beyond a discussion about your own use of porn, you need to be having semi-regular discussions about healthy sexuality, relationships, ethical online behavior, and the values that should guide someone as they navigate a really fraught time in their development. You can't just have a one-off birds and bees conversation and call it good.
posted by brookeb at 5:17 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
Your note sounds perfect. I don't think anyone needs a therapist. I also don't think you need to be reprimanded multiple times for having a tab open. How many times did you hear stories about someone walking in on their parents when you were a kid? These things happen.
What's problematic, and most certainly part of a larger cultural problem, is both your immense shame about this incident, as well as your daughter's. You clearly believe that exploring your sexuality online within a loving relationship is harmless. You clearly believe that playful curiosity within a committed relationship is natural. You clearly believe that human sexuality is not only normal, it's human. Now you need to teach her that, going forward.
In a week or 10 days, you and your wife need sit down and drink a calm cup of tea with your daughter, and communicate those values to her. Explain that you're sorry if you upset her, and if she inadvertently learned more about you than she's ready to **at this stage." But there will come a point in her life, when she finds someone she loves. There will come a point when she is in a committed relationship, and then she may find herself exploring more, not just about her own sexuality, but about sexuality in general. That's normal and natural, and nothing to either feel ashamed about or to shame others about.
Until she's ready, she needn't ever think about it again. You and her mother love each other, and you love her. You and her mother are not splitting up. Sexual curiosity is natural, normal and it exists at all ages. Let her know if she has any questions in the future about anything sexual at all, she can come to you or your wife at any time, **without judgment.**
Frankly, it would be nice if more people in America lived that way, and it would also be nice if more Americans raised their children that way, rather than suffer from a cultural legacy of Puritan shame, dating back centuries.
Be well, and be of good cheer. This really isn't the end of the world. Your first instinct was to write her a lovely note. Don't stop trusting yourself.
posted by Violet Blue at 5:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
What's problematic, and most certainly part of a larger cultural problem, is both your immense shame about this incident, as well as your daughter's. You clearly believe that exploring your sexuality online within a loving relationship is harmless. You clearly believe that playful curiosity within a committed relationship is natural. You clearly believe that human sexuality is not only normal, it's human. Now you need to teach her that, going forward.
In a week or 10 days, you and your wife need sit down and drink a calm cup of tea with your daughter, and communicate those values to her. Explain that you're sorry if you upset her, and if she inadvertently learned more about you than she's ready to **at this stage." But there will come a point in her life, when she finds someone she loves. There will come a point when she is in a committed relationship, and then she may find herself exploring more, not just about her own sexuality, but about sexuality in general. That's normal and natural, and nothing to either feel ashamed about or to shame others about.
Until she's ready, she needn't ever think about it again. You and her mother love each other, and you love her. You and her mother are not splitting up. Sexual curiosity is natural, normal and it exists at all ages. Let her know if she has any questions in the future about anything sexual at all, she can come to you or your wife at any time, **without judgment.**
Frankly, it would be nice if more people in America lived that way, and it would also be nice if more Americans raised their children that way, rather than suffer from a cultural legacy of Puritan shame, dating back centuries.
Be well, and be of good cheer. This really isn't the end of the world. Your first instinct was to write her a lovely note. Don't stop trusting yourself.
posted by Violet Blue at 5:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yes, I'd like to emphasize that this should be a great time to start thinking about how you can teach your daughter that sex can be a positive and beautiful thing and isn't always something scary. I don't mean do this now, and frankly this should probably largely be in your wife's domain, but you can be a part of the dialogue with your wife on how to do this. I don't think talking at her is this answer here, but there are ways to show that you view sex and intimacy as something positive to be celebrated without putting her on the spot or making her uncomfortable.
Your wife may also want to start talking about boundaries with her body. This was a big reaction from her and it makes me wonder if she's been subject to sex as something negative or to be feared in others areas of her life. That doesn't mean that someone is abusing her, but it could mean that some of her classmates are starting to talk about sex and each other in a way that feels raunchy and maybe almost violent to her (struggling to find the best words). It can be scary to think that Those People are bad, then see that your loving father seemingly has something in common with Those People (being a sexual being). I know this may seem like a stretch for an adult with a fully developed frontal lobe, but she's 12.
Forgive yourself and focus on helping your daughter learn that intimacy isn't always something scary. Teach her to love her body and to set firm, healthy boundaries so she can one day grow up into a confident woman tells this story to her friends for a laugh after a couple glasses of wine. You watched porn; you didn't kill anyone. Discovering that our parents are sexual beings is something most of us need to confront in our lives. It is jarring and hard but it is something we all need to contend. You already apologized and respected her boundaries. It's time to focus on body positivity and boundaries instead of drowning in guilt, which will only reinforce the idea that sex is something scary.
posted by Amy93 at 5:37 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
Your wife may also want to start talking about boundaries with her body. This was a big reaction from her and it makes me wonder if she's been subject to sex as something negative or to be feared in others areas of her life. That doesn't mean that someone is abusing her, but it could mean that some of her classmates are starting to talk about sex and each other in a way that feels raunchy and maybe almost violent to her (struggling to find the best words). It can be scary to think that Those People are bad, then see that your loving father seemingly has something in common with Those People (being a sexual being). I know this may seem like a stretch for an adult with a fully developed frontal lobe, but she's 12.
Forgive yourself and focus on helping your daughter learn that intimacy isn't always something scary. Teach her to love her body and to set firm, healthy boundaries so she can one day grow up into a confident woman tells this story to her friends for a laugh after a couple glasses of wine. You watched porn; you didn't kill anyone. Discovering that our parents are sexual beings is something most of us need to confront in our lives. It is jarring and hard but it is something we all need to contend. You already apologized and respected her boundaries. It's time to focus on body positivity and boundaries instead of drowning in guilt, which will only reinforce the idea that sex is something scary.
posted by Amy93 at 5:37 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
From a MeFite who would prefer to remain anonymous:
I was 10 years old the first time I saw a porn magazine that my father carelessly left in a place he didn’t think anyone would see it (his vehicle). A couple of years later he forgot a tape in the VCR. This “sloppiness” continued throughout my high school/college years, even though he knew that I’d been exposed.posted by jessamyn at 5:38 PM on January 11, 2021 [49 favorites]
It’s critical to remember that trauma is often less about what happened and more about how we react to and process what happened. In my case, these “tiny” events caused me to mistrust my father. I spent years feeling violated and was afraid that he would sexually assault me - even though our relationship looked good on the surface. Much of this was due to the fact that he was also an alcoholic and I mistrusted his decision making while he was drinking.
To the posters who have accused your daughter of drumming up drama, I would like to email them copies of my therapy bills. I do not traffic in drama in any area of my life. However, having multiple unasked for exposures to my father’s sexual interests has had a long-lasting impact on my life. Additionally, you have no idea what other experiences she’s had that may be triggering the reactions she’s having.
Your note to her sounded great and I would leave it there. It’s important for you to know, however, that if this happens again, you will have violated her trust in a major way and she will find it difficult to ever trust you again.
It is fundamentally not your daughter's fault that she saw porn. *She* didn't cross a boundary that needs to be reinforced. Her *repeated exposure*, however unintentional, was a violation of her boundaries as a child. That your daughter even put you on notice about your habit of leaving porn up and around is a testament to her maturity and ability to set boundaries. I am proud of her for doing it, but sad that she had to as well.
I disagree with others that this is an opportunity to teach your daughter that sex is a positive thing. It absolutely is, but for right now, what your daughter needs is for her boundaries to be respected, and for her safety as a member of your family to be reinforced. If you and your wife begin a sex-positive approach to reconciliation, you may end up communicating to your daughter that it's her perception of sex that's the problem, not that you were irresponsible and should never have left porn anywhere on anything that she could find. Emotional and psychological sexual safety are just as important as physical sexual safety. If your daughter was already feeling stressed or scared by sex in general before this incident, she needs it gone in order to feel better.
I don't have any ways forward to offer. Just wanted to underscore what others have said because I have been thinking about this Ask nonstop all afternoon to the point of distraction because I really, really feel for your kid, and I appreciate you asking this question. Other dads/parents/guardians wouldn't.
FWIW: I grew up in a household with a dad who was staunchly sex-negative as well as someone with unresolved anger issues. If as a preteen I had ever seen him consuming porn, it would have damaged our relationship and my ability to feel safe in my own home irreparably because of the mismatch between his words and actions. If it were also a repeat thing, as your daughter has described, that would be even worse, because it would have meant to me that my dad didn't care enough about me, his non-consenting non-adult daughter, to restrict access something he has by virtue of being a consenting adult. As it was, I have issues with shame surrounding sex because of his attitudes about sex, and 12-14 is exactly when it started. I could go on. I won't. That's what therapy is for.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:21 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
I disagree with others that this is an opportunity to teach your daughter that sex is a positive thing. It absolutely is, but for right now, what your daughter needs is for her boundaries to be respected, and for her safety as a member of your family to be reinforced. If you and your wife begin a sex-positive approach to reconciliation, you may end up communicating to your daughter that it's her perception of sex that's the problem, not that you were irresponsible and should never have left porn anywhere on anything that she could find. Emotional and psychological sexual safety are just as important as physical sexual safety. If your daughter was already feeling stressed or scared by sex in general before this incident, she needs it gone in order to feel better.
I don't have any ways forward to offer. Just wanted to underscore what others have said because I have been thinking about this Ask nonstop all afternoon to the point of distraction because I really, really feel for your kid, and I appreciate you asking this question. Other dads/parents/guardians wouldn't.
FWIW: I grew up in a household with a dad who was staunchly sex-negative as well as someone with unresolved anger issues. If as a preteen I had ever seen him consuming porn, it would have damaged our relationship and my ability to feel safe in my own home irreparably because of the mismatch between his words and actions. If it were also a repeat thing, as your daughter has described, that would be even worse, because it would have meant to me that my dad didn't care enough about me, his non-consenting non-adult daughter, to restrict access something he has by virtue of being a consenting adult. As it was, I have issues with shame surrounding sex because of his attitudes about sex, and 12-14 is exactly when it started. I could go on. I won't. That's what therapy is for.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:21 PM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
I have a slightly different experience that I think still applies. When I was your daughter's age, I discovered my dad's pot stash. I was devastated. I cried a lot, wrote some really bad poetry about it, etc. Why I think it might be relevant to you is why I was devastated.
1. I had gotten a lot of "all drugs are evil and will ruin your life" at school. Since my dad's life wasn't in ruin, I was convinced his drug use must be new, and thus his life was in danger.
2. I was convinced that my mom, as a reasonable person, could not possibly be okay with "evil" and so this must be a terrible secret activity, that might destroy their marriage.
All of which is to say, yes, 12 year-old feelings are valid, but also, 12 year-olds often think in really intense, black & white ways. Given my dad's pot use was new to me, I assumed it must be new to him as well. Because I had been given a clear rule at school "drugs=evil," I had far more moral clarity than was healthy for me.
Given that the porn your daughter saw was gay/bi, I agree some of what might be going on is fear of what this might mean in terms of radical future changes and a sense that now she needs to keep a secret from her mother about you. And secret-keeping can be stressful! So while respecting her wishes is important, it may be a huge relief to her to know that your wife knows, that porn is part of your private life together, and that your exploration into gay/bi porn is no threat to either your marriage or your family. It doesn't need to be a discussion, you and your wife could even write a letter to her together. And at some point, after a little time is passed, I agree with those suggesting some sex-talk done by your wife would be good, as her response suggests sex is a scary topic for her (which is totally normal for that age). Sex-talks with my mom were often awkward and unwanted (at the time), but in hindsight I'm grateful for them.
posted by coffeecat at 6:22 PM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
1. I had gotten a lot of "all drugs are evil and will ruin your life" at school. Since my dad's life wasn't in ruin, I was convinced his drug use must be new, and thus his life was in danger.
2. I was convinced that my mom, as a reasonable person, could not possibly be okay with "evil" and so this must be a terrible secret activity, that might destroy their marriage.
All of which is to say, yes, 12 year-old feelings are valid, but also, 12 year-olds often think in really intense, black & white ways. Given my dad's pot use was new to me, I assumed it must be new to him as well. Because I had been given a clear rule at school "drugs=evil," I had far more moral clarity than was healthy for me.
Given that the porn your daughter saw was gay/bi, I agree some of what might be going on is fear of what this might mean in terms of radical future changes and a sense that now she needs to keep a secret from her mother about you. And secret-keeping can be stressful! So while respecting her wishes is important, it may be a huge relief to her to know that your wife knows, that porn is part of your private life together, and that your exploration into gay/bi porn is no threat to either your marriage or your family. It doesn't need to be a discussion, you and your wife could even write a letter to her together. And at some point, after a little time is passed, I agree with those suggesting some sex-talk done by your wife would be good, as her response suggests sex is a scary topic for her (which is totally normal for that age). Sex-talks with my mom were often awkward and unwanted (at the time), but in hindsight I'm grateful for them.
posted by coffeecat at 6:22 PM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
As you can see from the responses here, this sort of accidental encounter with a parent's sexuality has a wildly different impact on kids depending on their ages, personalities, where they are at developmentally regardless of their calendar age.
If your daughter had simply come across a porn tumblr on an iPad when you weren't around, I doubt you'd have gotten that note. Or maybe not even any note at all. She would probably have had some kind of reaction still, but the fact that this exposure happened in your presence is what makes it two things: Embarrassing beyond conceivable measure, and a little scary.
I don't know exactly what messages your daughter is getting about sex or porn. (Hint: if she's a girl, the answer is probably 1) a lot and 2) they're all bad and scary!) But I know that when I was a kid, even in a largely sex-positive environment, there was a lot of messaging along the lines of: showing a kid porn is like a top 3 sign that someone is a sexual abuser/molester. This messaging is meant to refer to someone who is deliberately sharing porn with a kid. But when you're a kid you don't know what that even means.
At that age you tend to think that adults...are good at stuff? Like that they're in charge and under control and they would NEVER let anything bad happen. So if this happened, in a kid's mind, it's because it was supposed to happen, because parents don't make mistakes. And that means you meant her to see it, and that means you're dangerous.
The note you wrote sounds absolutely like the right approach and so does generally backing off of the whole situation for awhile. Obviously things will feel awkward for a bit but please do not respond by ignoring her or distancing yourself obviously from her, which will only make her feel more like you are guilty and therefore were up to something bad.
In general this might be less of a teachable moment about healthy sexuality and more of a teachable moment about how parents are fallible and how people can work to restore trust after letting someone down.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:35 PM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
If your daughter had simply come across a porn tumblr on an iPad when you weren't around, I doubt you'd have gotten that note. Or maybe not even any note at all. She would probably have had some kind of reaction still, but the fact that this exposure happened in your presence is what makes it two things: Embarrassing beyond conceivable measure, and a little scary.
I don't know exactly what messages your daughter is getting about sex or porn. (Hint: if she's a girl, the answer is probably 1) a lot and 2) they're all bad and scary!) But I know that when I was a kid, even in a largely sex-positive environment, there was a lot of messaging along the lines of: showing a kid porn is like a top 3 sign that someone is a sexual abuser/molester. This messaging is meant to refer to someone who is deliberately sharing porn with a kid. But when you're a kid you don't know what that even means.
At that age you tend to think that adults...are good at stuff? Like that they're in charge and under control and they would NEVER let anything bad happen. So if this happened, in a kid's mind, it's because it was supposed to happen, because parents don't make mistakes. And that means you meant her to see it, and that means you're dangerous.
The note you wrote sounds absolutely like the right approach and so does generally backing off of the whole situation for awhile. Obviously things will feel awkward for a bit but please do not respond by ignoring her or distancing yourself obviously from her, which will only make her feel more like you are guilty and therefore were up to something bad.
In general this might be less of a teachable moment about healthy sexuality and more of a teachable moment about how parents are fallible and how people can work to restore trust after letting someone down.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:35 PM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
One thing to add, as much as I hate to: it may be worth it to have your wife gently probe to see if something else happened prior to this incident that has made your daughter feel this way. Maybe something happened with a friend, a friend's siblings, someone online, etc. There may be more here, and this was a tipping point for her.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:41 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:41 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
It's fine if your daughter doesn't want to talk to you about it, but I think your wife should ask her about it, because you guys need to understand what her distress is primarily about (is dad gay, is dad showing me porn on purpose, are all people who watch porn total creeps, etc).
posted by hungrytiger at 7:15 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by hungrytiger at 7:15 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
It's probably far from the case, and the mention here is mainly for the sake of completeness -- If by any chance she was getting any messages of "not now, I'm busy" or "now now, I'm tired", that could lead her to wonder if she's less important than the stuff she saw.
Again, it doesn't sound like she's missing out on bonding time, but if there's any way to increase quality time together, that might be nice.
posted by dum spiro spero at 7:22 PM on January 11, 2021
Again, it doesn't sound like she's missing out on bonding time, but if there's any way to increase quality time together, that might be nice.
posted by dum spiro spero at 7:22 PM on January 11, 2021
OP, it really sounds like you didn't do anything wrong. Your daughter's choice of words concerns me because it suggests a level of fear and a sense of betrayal that seem really extreme given that this was apparently just a glimpse of vanilla m/m porn with no animals or blood or anything. She's "scared forever," she's crying herself to sleep, she doesn't trust therapists, she doesn't trust anyone...
My first thought is that she's terrified you're secretly gay, you're lying to Mom and you're going to leave the family. That might fit her rather extreme response. But I have another worrying thought, that she may have had a previous traumatic experience with porn or sexuality. If she was previously violated by someone who showed her porn, and she thinks porn is something for bad people like that, seeing porn on your screen could be terrifying for her. I am not saying this definitely happened, but I think it's important to make sure that she hasn't had some previous, scarring experience.
I think you have to talk to her. You should be gentle about it, but you are her parent and you can't just obey her wish to never discuss this. If she won't talk to you, she needs to talk to a therapist. (Why doesn't she trust therapists? Did she go to therapy before, and she felt betrayed?) She is clearly dealing with a LOT, and it absolutely has to be addressed.. now.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 8:14 PM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
My first thought is that she's terrified you're secretly gay, you're lying to Mom and you're going to leave the family. That might fit her rather extreme response. But I have another worrying thought, that she may have had a previous traumatic experience with porn or sexuality. If she was previously violated by someone who showed her porn, and she thinks porn is something for bad people like that, seeing porn on your screen could be terrifying for her. I am not saying this definitely happened, but I think it's important to make sure that she hasn't had some previous, scarring experience.
I think you have to talk to her. You should be gentle about it, but you are her parent and you can't just obey her wish to never discuss this. If she won't talk to you, she needs to talk to a therapist. (Why doesn't she trust therapists? Did she go to therapy before, and she felt betrayed?) She is clearly dealing with a LOT, and it absolutely has to be addressed.. now.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 8:14 PM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
When I was around 11 or 12 I surprised my dad while he was watching porn on the computer, and it was trauma material enough that I still recall it nearly thirty years later, I had found other porn stashes, and it hadn’t bothered me. Finding parents’ playboys hadn’t bothered me. But seeing that, and the swiftness with which my dad hid it, and frankly: *the youth of the people involved* really freaked me out. If she’s twelve, it’s likely that most porn performers are closer to her age than yours, because that’s just how most porn tends to go. There can be a fear in there, of why you are looking at it.
You also have no idea what it was that was displaying on your porn bookmarks when she saw it, it could be some really horrific stuff. What was being advertised?
Also one other thing: she asked you to delete the bookmarks on your phone and iPad. I think it’s highly likely she’s gone detective and seen more than you think she has. The only “accidentals” were on the iPad - how would she otherwise know about the phone?
posted by corb at 8:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
You also have no idea what it was that was displaying on your porn bookmarks when she saw it, it could be some really horrific stuff. What was being advertised?
Also one other thing: she asked you to delete the bookmarks on your phone and iPad. I think it’s highly likely she’s gone detective and seen more than you think she has. The only “accidentals” were on the iPad - how would she otherwise know about the phone?
posted by corb at 8:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
One idea: a note from her Mom saying something like, "Your Dad showed me the note you left him, he wasn't doing anything I didn't already know about, everything is fine and healthy between us, and I hope you aren't worried. You can talk to me if you want, but it's absolutely fine if we never speak of this again. We both love you and each other very much."
posted by amtho at 9:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by amtho at 9:50 PM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
It might seem over the top to contact a professional but RAINN has many readily available counsellors online and by phone for this very situation so you can get short term support to converse with and support your daughter.
You can discuss this anonymously with a helpline as long as you don't provide a/s/l information. That can feel difficult but it's also possible.
posted by parmanparman at 11:39 PM on January 11, 2021
You can discuss this anonymously with a helpline as long as you don't provide a/s/l information. That can feel difficult but it's also possible.
posted by parmanparman at 11:39 PM on January 11, 2021
Get a tablet that is just for porn, don't sync it to any other devices, and leave it in your bedroom.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 12:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Another former 12/13-year old girl who had traumatic experiences around porn and my father and technology (him making it clear he'd seen porn I'd been looking at in the browser history of the family PC, him leaving his youtube account logged in that showed obviously not actual porn but soft-pornographic sexual interests of his). This stuff FUCKED ME UP. I was absolutely beyond embarrassed, felt violated, felt like my dad was going to abuse me (or maybe HAD and I'd forgotten about it??), that he saw me as a sexual being now and that was just so wrong. Sexuality had entered into a relationship where it DID NOT BELONG and there was nothing that could undo that intrusion and violation. To this day sometimes I have intrusive thoughts about my dad masturbating and feel absolutely horrible.
This is not about sex-positivity. Clearly you do not already have a family culture where sex is something that is talked about and normal (I'm sure such families exist, but it wasn't my experience and it doesn't sound like your daughter's experience). I agree that you need a "burner" device for your porn activities. I don't think there is anything else you can do. If your daughter seems troubled and like she's having social problems as an older adolescent it will be quite possible that this will be part of that- pay for her therapy then. Don't get her into therapy now as if this is going to be a band-aid fix. Pretend that this never happened and keep all references to sexuality away from her, and focus on just being her dad, as if this never happened.
I'm sorry that this happened and know you would never want to hurt your daughter and want some actions to make yourself feel better that this wasn't that bad or to fix it. I really don't think that is possible. A good thing is that your daughter obviously trusts you enough to write that note- I would never have been able to do that with my dad (who I mistrusted for other reasons too). Focus on that ground of love and trust. You have done damage but the rest of your relationship is still there and all you can do is move on.
Some commenters have suggested probing about your daughter's reaction, whether she has been exposed to porn or harmful sexuality elsewhere, etc. etc. I agree that this is important and she needs help but that DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT come from you. She doesn't need ANY more intrusion of her father into her understanding of sexuality, even though you want to be positive/supportive/caring. Kids do not react to things how we wish or want them to- and you need to stay OUT of this.
posted by Balthamos at 2:10 AM on January 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
This is not about sex-positivity. Clearly you do not already have a family culture where sex is something that is talked about and normal (I'm sure such families exist, but it wasn't my experience and it doesn't sound like your daughter's experience). I agree that you need a "burner" device for your porn activities. I don't think there is anything else you can do. If your daughter seems troubled and like she's having social problems as an older adolescent it will be quite possible that this will be part of that- pay for her therapy then. Don't get her into therapy now as if this is going to be a band-aid fix. Pretend that this never happened and keep all references to sexuality away from her, and focus on just being her dad, as if this never happened.
I'm sorry that this happened and know you would never want to hurt your daughter and want some actions to make yourself feel better that this wasn't that bad or to fix it. I really don't think that is possible. A good thing is that your daughter obviously trusts you enough to write that note- I would never have been able to do that with my dad (who I mistrusted for other reasons too). Focus on that ground of love and trust. You have done damage but the rest of your relationship is still there and all you can do is move on.
Some commenters have suggested probing about your daughter's reaction, whether she has been exposed to porn or harmful sexuality elsewhere, etc. etc. I agree that this is important and she needs help but that DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT come from you. She doesn't need ANY more intrusion of her father into her understanding of sexuality, even though you want to be positive/supportive/caring. Kids do not react to things how we wish or want them to- and you need to stay OUT of this.
posted by Balthamos at 2:10 AM on January 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
I can't deal with reading any more of the comments than I already did, but I wanted to plead with you to respect your daughter's wish not to talk about this. The VERY last thing you want to do is add disrespect to the trauma she's already experienced (and it IS trauma, not "12 year old girl drama", Jesus!) She has told you in no uncertain terms that she doesn't want to talk about it, and you should start making amends by showing you respect her wish. She is a young lady, not a child. To steamroll over her clearly-stated wish not to talk about it would demonstrate a lack of respect not only for her, but for women.
Do not sic her mother on her, either. The note was to you and it would be a violation of privacy to share with mom.
Stop being casual about your porn usage and ensure she never sees it again on any device of yours.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 4:03 AM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
Do not sic her mother on her, either. The note was to you and it would be a violation of privacy to share with mom.
Stop being casual about your porn usage and ensure she never sees it again on any device of yours.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 4:03 AM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
A good thing is that your daughter obviously trusts you enough to write that note- I would never have been able to do that with my dad (who I mistrusted for other reasons too).
I came here to make this point. For her to be able to bring up trust explicitly and demonstrate it in that way is really excellent. For many kids that age, this would be just another reason to harden their attitude towards their parents. In a way, she has paid you a real compliment and I think you should thank her for that, but also be reassured that you are doing some things right.
posted by BibiRose at 4:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
I came here to make this point. For her to be able to bring up trust explicitly and demonstrate it in that way is really excellent. For many kids that age, this would be just another reason to harden their attitude towards their parents. In a way, she has paid you a real compliment and I think you should thank her for that, but also be reassured that you are doing some things right.
posted by BibiRose at 4:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
and also wrote that she is sometimes uncomfortable around me
I feel like this has been skimmed over but it would be good for you to have clarity about what situations make her uncomfortable. Does she just want to avoid an embarrassing conversation about sex? Or does she not want to be alone around you at all? After you know, you can then tackle how reasonable or workable it is - I presume you provide some portion of childcare - but the first step is truly understanding her comfort level.
posted by sdrawkcaSSAb at 8:14 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
I feel like this has been skimmed over but it would be good for you to have clarity about what situations make her uncomfortable. Does she just want to avoid an embarrassing conversation about sex? Or does she not want to be alone around you at all? After you know, you can then tackle how reasonable or workable it is - I presume you provide some portion of childcare - but the first step is truly understanding her comfort level.
posted by sdrawkcaSSAb at 8:14 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Your daughter is over reacting. When someone over reacts it is either a red flag or a cry for help. Something needs to be addressed in her life. If you delete your bookmarks and stop watching porn you will not be addressing the issue that has caused her to freak out so strongly.
It could be something as non-narratively complex, and real world complex as plain old anxiety and approaching adolescence. Has she realised that she is the prime age and gender for rape and that there are a LOT of people out there who would do it to her, and this has scared her so much that the whole thought of sex is terrifying? Has she got so much anxiety going on what with politics, Covid and Junior High and brand new hormones that something that is relatively minor in terms of trauma tipped her over into a meltdown?
It could be something as unfortunate as that she has snooped, seen too much and squicked herself. Snooping is good. Self-directed searches for information are important so that the kid is in control and can look into the things that interest them, but they can easily backfire when a kid is not able to control how much information they get. "Ooh, picture of naked people - sexy, what does it look like?" can get answered with "What even is is tha..? OMG my own Dad likes to look at close up pictures of MALE buttholes and OMG a man's thing can go in there!!!"
It could be that something sexual has happened in her life that has caused her to over react to this as a reaction to trauma from that. There may be another kid telling her about their real world trauma, she may have read some hentai, she may be involved in uncomfortable on line conversations with another kid who is predatory, she may have realised that the man at school two years ago that used to finger her means that she was sexually abused.
No matter what the scenario is your kid is in a corner, doesn't see a way out and is doubling down in an effort to avoid traumatizing or re-traumatizing herself. That corner is not a safe place for her to stay in, and all the worse because she is determined to stay in it.
Some of what you quote her saying - knowing which devices you use and announced that she Will Not See A Counselor indicates that she has too much information for this to have just been a glimpse of two images.
Consider the possibility that "I can't talk to a counselor" is actually potentially a panicked request for you to find her a counselor and find a way for it to work. I'm not suggesting you rush out and find one because her words need to be accepted as a fully genuine belief that talking to a counselor would be horrible and impossible and her wishes need to be honoured if you are to work with her. Overriding her statement and providing a counselor is going to push her deeper into a corner. But she is thinking about a counselor and on some level understands that this is a situation that calls for one.
I'd make a simple statement that you have deleted your bookmarks and try getting your wife to reach out to her. Obviously you mustn't push her, but some mother daughter time, where an activity like going on a walk together is offered with the statements that your wife is ready to listen, and that sexual trauma is complicated, and sexual interest is normal and natural, but that it is really easy for anyone of any age to get overloaded or in too deep, and that often kids feel really ashamed when something happens but it is never the kid's fault even if the kid is the instigator. And then just a walk in silence to give her the option to talk.
She should be asked if she needs help getting out of something.
She should be asked if she has done something she regrets.
BUT she also needs to be respected and not pushed and everything done obliquely enough to not overload her and push her deeper into a corner. At the same time she needs clear and repeated evidence that the adults in her life are here to help. Also, don't say it this week and then assume that since you said it once she will believe it remains valid. Like telling someone you love them, you need to repeat your willingness to be supportive. Frequently when someone has been traumatized they will not be able to deal with it right away, so she may not be able to process what happened to distress her for weeks to years. She should know that you want to help her and that it is normal to not be able to discuss these things, but it doesn't make her complicit.
You should check her browsing history, and check the browsing history on all devices she has access to.
I do not think your wife should be kept out of this - it's her porn too, if you watch it together.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
It could be something as non-narratively complex, and real world complex as plain old anxiety and approaching adolescence. Has she realised that she is the prime age and gender for rape and that there are a LOT of people out there who would do it to her, and this has scared her so much that the whole thought of sex is terrifying? Has she got so much anxiety going on what with politics, Covid and Junior High and brand new hormones that something that is relatively minor in terms of trauma tipped her over into a meltdown?
It could be something as unfortunate as that she has snooped, seen too much and squicked herself. Snooping is good. Self-directed searches for information are important so that the kid is in control and can look into the things that interest them, but they can easily backfire when a kid is not able to control how much information they get. "Ooh, picture of naked people - sexy, what does it look like?" can get answered with "What even is is tha..? OMG my own Dad likes to look at close up pictures of MALE buttholes and OMG a man's thing can go in there!!!"
It could be that something sexual has happened in her life that has caused her to over react to this as a reaction to trauma from that. There may be another kid telling her about their real world trauma, she may have read some hentai, she may be involved in uncomfortable on line conversations with another kid who is predatory, she may have realised that the man at school two years ago that used to finger her means that she was sexually abused.
No matter what the scenario is your kid is in a corner, doesn't see a way out and is doubling down in an effort to avoid traumatizing or re-traumatizing herself. That corner is not a safe place for her to stay in, and all the worse because she is determined to stay in it.
Some of what you quote her saying - knowing which devices you use and announced that she Will Not See A Counselor indicates that she has too much information for this to have just been a glimpse of two images.
Consider the possibility that "I can't talk to a counselor" is actually potentially a panicked request for you to find her a counselor and find a way for it to work. I'm not suggesting you rush out and find one because her words need to be accepted as a fully genuine belief that talking to a counselor would be horrible and impossible and her wishes need to be honoured if you are to work with her. Overriding her statement and providing a counselor is going to push her deeper into a corner. But she is thinking about a counselor and on some level understands that this is a situation that calls for one.
I'd make a simple statement that you have deleted your bookmarks and try getting your wife to reach out to her. Obviously you mustn't push her, but some mother daughter time, where an activity like going on a walk together is offered with the statements that your wife is ready to listen, and that sexual trauma is complicated, and sexual interest is normal and natural, but that it is really easy for anyone of any age to get overloaded or in too deep, and that often kids feel really ashamed when something happens but it is never the kid's fault even if the kid is the instigator. And then just a walk in silence to give her the option to talk.
She should be asked if she needs help getting out of something.
She should be asked if she has done something she regrets.
BUT she also needs to be respected and not pushed and everything done obliquely enough to not overload her and push her deeper into a corner. At the same time she needs clear and repeated evidence that the adults in her life are here to help. Also, don't say it this week and then assume that since you said it once she will believe it remains valid. Like telling someone you love them, you need to repeat your willingness to be supportive. Frequently when someone has been traumatized they will not be able to deal with it right away, so she may not be able to process what happened to distress her for weeks to years. She should know that you want to help her and that it is normal to not be able to discuss these things, but it doesn't make her complicit.
You should check her browsing history, and check the browsing history on all devices she has access to.
I do not think your wife should be kept out of this - it's her porn too, if you watch it together.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
You’re getting a lot bad advice (and some good advice) so my recommendation is to not listen to anyone here and seek the input of a professional. This is a serious enough issue with some potentially long-term impacts that you shouldn’t be relying the opinions of a bunch yahoos on the internet. Find a therapist, one who works both with adults and adolescents, and talk through what the best course of action is.
posted by scantee at 9:31 AM on January 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by scantee at 9:31 AM on January 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
The replies that criticize your child's reaction are shocking. The fact of the situation is that you are repeatedly irresponsible enough to harm your daughter and now she cannot trust you. Do not punish her, admonish her, or try to negate her feelings any way, or the next time she feels endangered (from you or from someone else) she won't come to you. This is setting up your child to be abused. I would also like to remind people that being exposed at a young age to sexual images is, in itself, traumatic and sometimes a form of sexual abuse. I am not making judgement call about what occurred here.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:15 AM on January 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:15 AM on January 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
this will probably get deleted, but it needs to be said.
It's frankly appalling that anyone here would look at this story and say it's your kid who violated YOUR boundaries, or criticize her for being upset. She's twelve! Neither you nor anyone else have any right to expose her to pornography, but you as her parent bear the greatest responsibility for her safety and comfort. The fact that this happened TWICE suggests that your priorities about managing this issue have been... way out of line.
Your guilt is the right reaction, and what you need to do now is prioritize your family's welfare over your porn convenience. And for God's sake don't listen to anyone telling you that exposing your daughter to pornography is part of sex-positivity, Jesus H Christ.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:39 AM on January 12, 2021 [26 favorites]
It's frankly appalling that anyone here would look at this story and say it's your kid who violated YOUR boundaries, or criticize her for being upset. She's twelve! Neither you nor anyone else have any right to expose her to pornography, but you as her parent bear the greatest responsibility for her safety and comfort. The fact that this happened TWICE suggests that your priorities about managing this issue have been... way out of line.
Your guilt is the right reaction, and what you need to do now is prioritize your family's welfare over your porn convenience. And for God's sake don't listen to anyone telling you that exposing your daughter to pornography is part of sex-positivity, Jesus H Christ.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:39 AM on January 12, 2021 [26 favorites]
Something I don't think I saw mentioned above is that 12 is around the time that girls (if they haven't been sexually harassed before) typically start becoming harassed with more regularity or become conscious of sexual harassment around them.
I think it's really reasonable for your daughter to feel like your relationship has changed. You are the adult here, and it wouldn't be out of left field for her to believe (even though you have clearly professed a mistake) that an adult she trusts wouldn't show her sexual content even by accident. She didn't (and obviously couldn't) consent to seeing what you accidentally left open.
I think you did the right thing by writing a note, but would recommend a brief honest "I'm sorry you saw pornography on my computer. It wasn't ok that I left that up and I'll make sure that doesn't happen again." and then change the subject, don't speak of it again unless she brings it up and close your darn apps. Unless your family has a strong and regular history of having sex positive conversations, now is not the time. Now is the time to rebuild trust and the way to do that is by making sure she is not exposed to the stuff that turns you on.
posted by donut_princess at 12:15 PM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I think it's really reasonable for your daughter to feel like your relationship has changed. You are the adult here, and it wouldn't be out of left field for her to believe (even though you have clearly professed a mistake) that an adult she trusts wouldn't show her sexual content even by accident. She didn't (and obviously couldn't) consent to seeing what you accidentally left open.
I think you did the right thing by writing a note, but would recommend a brief honest "I'm sorry you saw pornography on my computer. It wasn't ok that I left that up and I'll make sure that doesn't happen again." and then change the subject, don't speak of it again unless she brings it up and close your darn apps. Unless your family has a strong and regular history of having sex positive conversations, now is not the time. Now is the time to rebuild trust and the way to do that is by making sure she is not exposed to the stuff that turns you on.
posted by donut_princess at 12:15 PM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
She is a young lady, not a child. To steamroll over her clearly-stated wish not to talk about it would demonstrate a lack of respect not only for her, but for women.
She's 12. She is a child. Specifically she is the OP's child, and it's going to take some talking to begin the healing here. This girl feels that she can't trust anybody, including her father, and she's badly traumatized. Everybody clamming up about this, and just leaving her to literally cry herself to sleep over it, is a very bad idea.
I was molested when I was 11. I thought of this guy like an uncle and as much as I hated the molestation, I was also desperate not to get him in trouble. I knew he'd probably go to jail. I wondered if I was responsible for the molestation somehow, and instead of talking to my parents I stopped washing in the hope that my body would get too gross for this creep to touch me again. That's the kind of shit kids can get up to when they're traumatized, because they're kids and they simply don't have the maturity or the knowledge to process trauma like a grownup. (Not that it's easy for grownups either!)
It's possible that this girl has experienced previous assault of some kind and seeing this porn now is triggering for her. Even if that's not the case you can't just trust her to work this out all by herself, because she is a traumatized child.
I can understand the arguments that it needs to start with her talking to her mother, or talking to a therapist, but she is a kid who is confused and suffering alone and that can't go on. It's not disrespecting women to say that sometimes a parent has to step in and help their pre-teen child, even if the child is insisting they don't want help. When I was her age, I would've insisted I didn't need help too.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:54 PM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
She's 12. She is a child. Specifically she is the OP's child, and it's going to take some talking to begin the healing here. This girl feels that she can't trust anybody, including her father, and she's badly traumatized. Everybody clamming up about this, and just leaving her to literally cry herself to sleep over it, is a very bad idea.
I was molested when I was 11. I thought of this guy like an uncle and as much as I hated the molestation, I was also desperate not to get him in trouble. I knew he'd probably go to jail. I wondered if I was responsible for the molestation somehow, and instead of talking to my parents I stopped washing in the hope that my body would get too gross for this creep to touch me again. That's the kind of shit kids can get up to when they're traumatized, because they're kids and they simply don't have the maturity or the knowledge to process trauma like a grownup. (Not that it's easy for grownups either!)
It's possible that this girl has experienced previous assault of some kind and seeing this porn now is triggering for her. Even if that's not the case you can't just trust her to work this out all by herself, because she is a traumatized child.
I can understand the arguments that it needs to start with her talking to her mother, or talking to a therapist, but she is a kid who is confused and suffering alone and that can't go on. It's not disrespecting women to say that sometimes a parent has to step in and help their pre-teen child, even if the child is insisting they don't want help. When I was her age, I would've insisted I didn't need help too.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:54 PM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
For her father to speak to her about this would be a second breach of trust, period. I'm shocked at all the truly horrific takes on this situation. You don't build trust by violating a very clearly stated boundary. This young lady has a right to define her boundaries. She was just exposed to porn against her will, and the last thing that the father should do in response is expose her to even more sexual themes verbally against her will.
Parents who push things like this inevitably drive a wedge between themselves and their kids. Indeed, as has been stated, if the father pushes this he is *ensuring* that she no longer communicates with him as she's done here.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 5:29 PM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Parents who push things like this inevitably drive a wedge between themselves and their kids. Indeed, as has been stated, if the father pushes this he is *ensuring* that she no longer communicates with him as she's done here.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 5:29 PM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
FOC, we're hitting a point of absolute disagreement on this issue and it's probably not productive to keep going. We've made our arguments and it's up to the OP to make up his own mind.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:54 PM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:54 PM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hey, I'm not a dad, nor do I have any actionable solution suggestions for you and your daughter that hasn't been addressed in this Ask, but wanted to chime in and share this gentle reminder: you're a human. You meant no harm. Don't be hard on yourself; you're doing the best you can with what you have, like all of us. It'll be okay and will all work out in the end.
I know this isn't a directly helpful response, but I hope it serves as a helpful, positive reminder. Hang in there. :)
posted by dubious_dude at 7:12 PM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I know this isn't a directly helpful response, but I hope it serves as a helpful, positive reminder. Hang in there. :)
posted by dubious_dude at 7:12 PM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
NameMeansGazelle has the best answer here but I just wanted to add a few points to back up their comment. Firstly, I'm concerned that you write seemingly casually about twice knowingly (if not intentionally) putting your daughter in a position where she has to view porn without consent over your shoulder, suggesting you are leaving porn open in situations that are not private and that shelter your daughter from exposure and secondly that your daughter apparently has to view the names of pornographic websites because you have bookmarked them on shared devices.
It seems you really did not consider the likely or potential impact of your choices on her, as you haven't changed your behaviors despite repeatedly exposing her to what you are watching and haven't really taken on board that this nonchalance has put her in the miserable position of effectively having to watch porn with her father in the same room (even if for only a few seconds) and also to worry and wonder about whether he was aroused or masturbating (or about to) when she was right there. To have the adult present when this takes place or to have to encounter constant reminders of your father's engagement with explicit material through browser histories and bookmarks is nothing like passively finding a parent's sexy magazine or book or whatever, because the parent's presence is such an intensely uncomfortable addition and this dynamic is not a healthy one for her and is not healthy parenting. It reads as borderline neglectful, although I'm sure you love your daughter deeply. What she wrote was mature, respectful and profoundly emotionally intelligent and it must have taken her an enormous amount of courage to do.
I think some counselling and therapy for yourself to set better boundaries that respect your daughter as an autonomous individual, and a CHILD, who has the right not to be suddenly be witness to pornographic material -- like others, I think there is no comparison between magazines of the 1980s, or whatever, and filmed records of people actually having sex, especially if there is any violence or coercion involved and particularly given the frequently misogynistic subtext to many of these -- and also be plunged into a whole lot of extremely complicated and confusing questions about (possibly) why her dad let her see this material, whether her dad is potentially gay or wants to have sex with men, and even whether she is expected to or will be pressured to engage in similar acts or viewings or even stay silent while seeing material that evidently (and in my view rightly) makes her tremendously uncomfortable.
I think you should respect her wishes and not talk to her. But if you do, please stay right away from any comments about how all adults watch porn and that is just normal. She can make her own choices about whether and what to watch as an adult woman (like we all do, not every adult watches porn and many women have a critique of it) and she shouldn't have any adults, let alone her own caregivers creating implicit pressure that she, like every other 'normal' grown up, will be expected to view it or that there is something wrong with her for reacting poorly to it. More importantly, if you want to protect her as best you can from tolerating grooming behaviors that may lead into child sexual abuse, you need to both respect and validate her totally reasonable boundaries (which are honestly ones I would expect an adult and not their child to set) and to avoid sending any message that implies that adults viewing porn in front of her is no big deal and can be brushed off as normal.
I'm not intending to shame you but I think you need to take this situation much more seriously and reflect on your choices to date. Your daughter's requests are reasonable and that she has shared with you that what you're doing around and near her and on shared devices disturbs, worries and frightens her. She has made herself deeply vulnerable to tell you this so I hope you validate and respect her requests and demonstrate to her that you hear her and recognize she is now fearful of accidental exposure and reminders (such as bookmarks) of this problem already taking place.
posted by The Rehearsal at 7:48 PM on January 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
It seems you really did not consider the likely or potential impact of your choices on her, as you haven't changed your behaviors despite repeatedly exposing her to what you are watching and haven't really taken on board that this nonchalance has put her in the miserable position of effectively having to watch porn with her father in the same room (even if for only a few seconds) and also to worry and wonder about whether he was aroused or masturbating (or about to) when she was right there. To have the adult present when this takes place or to have to encounter constant reminders of your father's engagement with explicit material through browser histories and bookmarks is nothing like passively finding a parent's sexy magazine or book or whatever, because the parent's presence is such an intensely uncomfortable addition and this dynamic is not a healthy one for her and is not healthy parenting. It reads as borderline neglectful, although I'm sure you love your daughter deeply. What she wrote was mature, respectful and profoundly emotionally intelligent and it must have taken her an enormous amount of courage to do.
I think some counselling and therapy for yourself to set better boundaries that respect your daughter as an autonomous individual, and a CHILD, who has the right not to be suddenly be witness to pornographic material -- like others, I think there is no comparison between magazines of the 1980s, or whatever, and filmed records of people actually having sex, especially if there is any violence or coercion involved and particularly given the frequently misogynistic subtext to many of these -- and also be plunged into a whole lot of extremely complicated and confusing questions about (possibly) why her dad let her see this material, whether her dad is potentially gay or wants to have sex with men, and even whether she is expected to or will be pressured to engage in similar acts or viewings or even stay silent while seeing material that evidently (and in my view rightly) makes her tremendously uncomfortable.
I think you should respect her wishes and not talk to her. But if you do, please stay right away from any comments about how all adults watch porn and that is just normal. She can make her own choices about whether and what to watch as an adult woman (like we all do, not every adult watches porn and many women have a critique of it) and she shouldn't have any adults, let alone her own caregivers creating implicit pressure that she, like every other 'normal' grown up, will be expected to view it or that there is something wrong with her for reacting poorly to it. More importantly, if you want to protect her as best you can from tolerating grooming behaviors that may lead into child sexual abuse, you need to both respect and validate her totally reasonable boundaries (which are honestly ones I would expect an adult and not their child to set) and to avoid sending any message that implies that adults viewing porn in front of her is no big deal and can be brushed off as normal.
I'm not intending to shame you but I think you need to take this situation much more seriously and reflect on your choices to date. Your daughter's requests are reasonable and that she has shared with you that what you're doing around and near her and on shared devices disturbs, worries and frightens her. She has made herself deeply vulnerable to tell you this so I hope you validate and respect her requests and demonstrate to her that you hear her and recognize she is now fearful of accidental exposure and reminders (such as bookmarks) of this problem already taking place.
posted by The Rehearsal at 7:48 PM on January 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can your wife bring herself to talk to your daughter about this? It's hard to consider our parents as sexual beings, especially as adolescents! If she realizes that it's part of a loving relationship, she still might want to gag, but with the threat removed, I don't think she'll feel so broken up. And I wouldn't promise not to watch porn, but I would promise to be more careful about bookmarks and cache clearing.
posted by kate4914 at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2021 [62 favorites]