How to navigate potential rent increase in 2021
December 2, 2020 12:33 PM Subscribe
Our landlady has the past two years increased our rent around the anniversary of our move in date. After the first year we've been month-to-month lease. We love our place and have no plans to move. Given the state of the world, the fact that we've been able to keep paying rent on time, and the current local market, I'd love to not have a rent increase this year. I'm not amazing at these sorts of conversations, so would love some advice on how to proceed.
We generally love the apartment. It fits us well and, while a bit small during the pandemic, is reasonably sized for the Bay Area. This is to say we're not looking to move anytime soon and would prefer not to all things being equal.
This is definitely a smaller operation, we deal with her, there's no management company, etc. The building itself is a condo unit so most other units are owner occupied, though there are also other renters as well. In fact, right now there are 3 other units for rent at +/- 7% rent open, one of which has been on the market for 6 months. As for the rest of the market, it's on the mid-high end in terms of rent per square foot, but there are other factors that up its value in our eyes which means it's not something we're chafing under or feel is unfair in the local area.
We do try and take good care of the place, I'm not certain how she'd rate us in terms of high or low need tenants, we've certainly had some projects crop up that were bigger deals, specifically there was a root growing into our toilet which required some work and there was a huge build-up of dryer lint that needed a good cleaning in the duct systems. Obviously not something we were at fault for, but still did require outlays and more extended work. Otherwise we pay rent on time and in full, even thankfully during the pandemic.
All this to say I'd really like to avoid a rent increase this year. I understand that at month-to-month there isn't the same protections as if we had a lease, and that even after verbally agreeing she might in a few months ignore it and send a rent increase anyways. However it's easier for me to act and know the right move if there's been a clearer boundary violation, so I feel more confident in pushing back or moving were that the case. In situations that are more nebulous, I tend to get into my own head both about the right course of action and how I present myself.
Is the best approach to a) discuss it now before hand? Should I b) wait and see what she does? In these situations I'm never sure how strongly I should come across and how strong I actually do come across. In my head I feel all the drafts sound pretty wishy-washy, but I feel weird about removing that because it ends up sounding harsh and demanding in a way that feels alien to me.
If a) should I mention we might move if she does increase, should I even put any facts about how long the other apartments in the same complex have been on the market? Do you just start with "hey in the past you've raised our rent around the year mark, this year we were hoping to forgo that given the global circumstances and our past history of good payments"?
If b) what's the wording to say hey we see this, we don't want this, but don't want to move out so let's talk? Has the ship sailed if the letter's already been drafted, or does it give us a decent position to talk to her?
As you can see I feel a bit stuck and unsure of how to proceed. Depending on the rent increase we might move, but that would be a last resort and I know undermines any leverage we might have, so I figured it'd be more appealing to better natures and showing that if we did make good everyone loses. I don't know how to do that though in a way that doesn't feel awkward and uncomfortable, so would love some advice.
We generally love the apartment. It fits us well and, while a bit small during the pandemic, is reasonably sized for the Bay Area. This is to say we're not looking to move anytime soon and would prefer not to all things being equal.
This is definitely a smaller operation, we deal with her, there's no management company, etc. The building itself is a condo unit so most other units are owner occupied, though there are also other renters as well. In fact, right now there are 3 other units for rent at +/- 7% rent open, one of which has been on the market for 6 months. As for the rest of the market, it's on the mid-high end in terms of rent per square foot, but there are other factors that up its value in our eyes which means it's not something we're chafing under or feel is unfair in the local area.
We do try and take good care of the place, I'm not certain how she'd rate us in terms of high or low need tenants, we've certainly had some projects crop up that were bigger deals, specifically there was a root growing into our toilet which required some work and there was a huge build-up of dryer lint that needed a good cleaning in the duct systems. Obviously not something we were at fault for, but still did require outlays and more extended work. Otherwise we pay rent on time and in full, even thankfully during the pandemic.
All this to say I'd really like to avoid a rent increase this year. I understand that at month-to-month there isn't the same protections as if we had a lease, and that even after verbally agreeing she might in a few months ignore it and send a rent increase anyways. However it's easier for me to act and know the right move if there's been a clearer boundary violation, so I feel more confident in pushing back or moving were that the case. In situations that are more nebulous, I tend to get into my own head both about the right course of action and how I present myself.
Is the best approach to a) discuss it now before hand? Should I b) wait and see what she does? In these situations I'm never sure how strongly I should come across and how strong I actually do come across. In my head I feel all the drafts sound pretty wishy-washy, but I feel weird about removing that because it ends up sounding harsh and demanding in a way that feels alien to me.
If a) should I mention we might move if she does increase, should I even put any facts about how long the other apartments in the same complex have been on the market? Do you just start with "hey in the past you've raised our rent around the year mark, this year we were hoping to forgo that given the global circumstances and our past history of good payments"?
If b) what's the wording to say hey we see this, we don't want this, but don't want to move out so let's talk? Has the ship sailed if the letter's already been drafted, or does it give us a decent position to talk to her?
As you can see I feel a bit stuck and unsure of how to proceed. Depending on the rent increase we might move, but that would be a last resort and I know undermines any leverage we might have, so I figured it'd be more appealing to better natures and showing that if we did make good everyone loses. I don't know how to do that though in a way that doesn't feel awkward and uncomfortable, so would love some advice.
Best answer: How I might approach it personally is something like-
"Looking ahead to the time that we typically consider an anniversary of our lease (*), and in light of the global health and financial impacts of the pandemic, we are asking you to please consider extending our tenancy for an additional 12 months at the current terms/rental rate of $____ monthly. As this will give both you and us stability in the current environment, we really hope you will agree to this. We look forward to the opportunity to discuss this with you further."
(*) Using that language so that you don't plant the seed of an increase yourself.
This approach keeps your hammer (moving out) in your pocket for the time being. People aren't as happy when they concede to a demand because of the hammer, so I always like to give them a chance to simply reach a reasonably happy agreement. There's upside for you and landlord here, landlord may not need to see the hammer to know that. By closing with an interest in discussing, you leave the option open to bring out the hammer if you need it.
Personally, I think it's likely best to get out ahead of the increase letter but I don't necessarily think it's a "done deal" when the letter is drafted, printed, signed, sent or even received by you. Even if you receive the letter this afternoon, you can just change your wording slightly and still make the request. In that case, I would still keep your hammer in your pocket in the first go-round.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:54 PM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
"Looking ahead to the time that we typically consider an anniversary of our lease (*), and in light of the global health and financial impacts of the pandemic, we are asking you to please consider extending our tenancy for an additional 12 months at the current terms/rental rate of $____ monthly. As this will give both you and us stability in the current environment, we really hope you will agree to this. We look forward to the opportunity to discuss this with you further."
(*) Using that language so that you don't plant the seed of an increase yourself.
This approach keeps your hammer (moving out) in your pocket for the time being. People aren't as happy when they concede to a demand because of the hammer, so I always like to give them a chance to simply reach a reasonably happy agreement. There's upside for you and landlord here, landlord may not need to see the hammer to know that. By closing with an interest in discussing, you leave the option open to bring out the hammer if you need it.
Personally, I think it's likely best to get out ahead of the increase letter but I don't necessarily think it's a "done deal" when the letter is drafted, printed, signed, sent or even received by you. Even if you receive the letter this afternoon, you can just change your wording slightly and still make the request. In that case, I would still keep your hammer in your pocket in the first go-round.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:54 PM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
I would propose a year lease with no increase. In the rental context you described, this would benefit both of you.
posted by ddaavviidd at 1:09 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by ddaavviidd at 1:09 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
1. "We will move if rent increases. Look, the other units rent for less."
Risk: she might rethink the tenancy, for another tenant or maybe for a family member. Also, the argumentative tone might erase goodwill.
Reward: it might work.
2. "Money is tight and is it ok that we skip a year?"
Risk: will need to swallow some pride
Reward: a bit better chance of working if she is the helper type.
3. "We'd like to propose an increase of $x, if that sounds good to you."
This is what I would lean toward. Do some research first though.
* Look up the address in the county tax assessor's website, and find out how much property taxes have gone up.
* Ask a neighbor to see if HOA fees have gone up this year.
* Look up any recent changes in your city on rent increase caps.
* Work up how much it would cost to move to a different unit, including the value of your time, and also what your liability is for any repairs.
You don't want to move, and she probably doesn't want to deal with finding a new tenant, but you really don't know her thresholds and motivations.
So come up with an increase that covers her incremental costs, one that is easy for her to say yes to. By proposing a smaller increase, you can avoid a bigger one, and with less of a risk of her walking away.
posted by dum spiro spero at 1:10 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Risk: she might rethink the tenancy, for another tenant or maybe for a family member. Also, the argumentative tone might erase goodwill.
Reward: it might work.
2. "Money is tight and is it ok that we skip a year?"
Risk: will need to swallow some pride
Reward: a bit better chance of working if she is the helper type.
3. "We'd like to propose an increase of $x, if that sounds good to you."
This is what I would lean toward. Do some research first though.
* Look up the address in the county tax assessor's website, and find out how much property taxes have gone up.
* Ask a neighbor to see if HOA fees have gone up this year.
* Look up any recent changes in your city on rent increase caps.
* Work up how much it would cost to move to a different unit, including the value of your time, and also what your liability is for any repairs.
You don't want to move, and she probably doesn't want to deal with finding a new tenant, but you really don't know her thresholds and motivations.
So come up with an increase that covers her incremental costs, one that is easy for her to say yes to. By proposing a smaller increase, you can avoid a bigger one, and with less of a risk of her walking away.
posted by dum spiro spero at 1:10 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
How have rents for similar properties changed in your neighborhood? You mention you're in the Bay Area, and this report shows that rents have declined dramatically in almost all portions of the Bay Area.
If you live in one of the neighborhoods where prices have declined, perhaps you could pre-empt the rental increase conversation by starting a rental decrease conversation.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 1:24 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
If you live in one of the neighborhoods where prices have declined, perhaps you could pre-empt the rental increase conversation by starting a rental decrease conversation.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 1:24 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
Please no do not offer an increase in your opening move!!!!!
By all means do the research and figure out what you think a reasonable increase you might suggest would be as well as the top increase you'd be willing to pay without moving (keeping in mind that moving has costs associated).
But on the first round of negotiations ask for what you want (no increase) and you might get it! You definitely aren't going to get it if you open with a request for a rent increase, in fact to my mind offering apropos of nothing to pay a higher rent would simply invite negotiation up from there. Don't set your desired floor at "small increase" (and then move up from there). Set your floor at "no increase" (and then you can be willing to negotiate for a very small increase, if you want).
posted by MustangMamaVE at 2:48 PM on December 2, 2020 [11 favorites]
By all means do the research and figure out what you think a reasonable increase you might suggest would be as well as the top increase you'd be willing to pay without moving (keeping in mind that moving has costs associated).
But on the first round of negotiations ask for what you want (no increase) and you might get it! You definitely aren't going to get it if you open with a request for a rent increase, in fact to my mind offering apropos of nothing to pay a higher rent would simply invite negotiation up from there. Don't set your desired floor at "small increase" (and then move up from there). Set your floor at "no increase" (and then you can be willing to negotiate for a very small increase, if you want).
posted by MustangMamaVE at 2:48 PM on December 2, 2020 [11 favorites]
MustangMamaVE really has the perfect script, and I love the hammer-in-your-pocket imagery. Offering a year lease at the current rent does seem like the best move.
At the heart of this is the ask-vs-guess culture divide. For guess-culture people, it isn't always a straightforward business-is-business no-harm-in-asking negotiation. Paradoxically, shifting a quasi-friendly relationship to a transactional plane can lead to having less leeway extended to you. It sounded a bit like you might be risk-averse, and I just wanted to raise the possibility that using asker moves with a guesser can end up chilling the air or souring the deal. Of course, you will have to read your landlady and your situation.
posted by dum spiro spero at 5:17 PM on December 2, 2020
At the heart of this is the ask-vs-guess culture divide. For guess-culture people, it isn't always a straightforward business-is-business no-harm-in-asking negotiation. Paradoxically, shifting a quasi-friendly relationship to a transactional plane can lead to having less leeway extended to you. It sounded a bit like you might be risk-averse, and I just wanted to raise the possibility that using asker moves with a guesser can end up chilling the air or souring the deal. Of course, you will have to read your landlady and your situation.
posted by dum spiro spero at 5:17 PM on December 2, 2020
offer to sign a 1 or 2 year lease at a "locked in" rate. i was able to negotiate this last year so i won't have a rent increase until 2022. she has no incentive to do this for you month to month. but if you've been good tenants and plan to stay that way, it could be a benefit to her to lock you in to the 2020 rent.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:46 AM on December 3, 2020
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:46 AM on December 3, 2020
Best answer: Most of the responses here seem to be ignoring the context of the bay area, which is that rents have dramatically increased over the last decade, but since March are down 25% city wide as remote workers flee those high rents. And I'm sorry but this advice about looking up your landlords property taxes and doing their job for them so you can offer an increase.... ridiculous, do not do that!!
It's better for you that this is a small time landlord without a management company because you can just have a conversation with them. I would use one of the polite scripts given here in the thread to ask for a rent decrease considering the circumstances and the market. This signals to your landlord that you are price-conscious but want to stay. You have nothing to lose by getting in front of the "annual" rent increase discussion, and there's always the chance they'll say yes.
If they say no there are other things of value you can offer your landlord from there in the conversation that are not a monthly rent increase - namely, to sign a lease and lock rent in. Your landlord surely knows that rents are down and likely to keep going down, and you are month-to-month and the market rate will most likely not be as favorable if you were to leave. You may want to stay long term, but who knows, this is the year of uncertainty. If they didn't like your initial decrease proposal, this will seem like a win-win compromise for everyone if you pitch it that way.
posted by bradbane at 1:43 PM on December 3, 2020
It's better for you that this is a small time landlord without a management company because you can just have a conversation with them. I would use one of the polite scripts given here in the thread to ask for a rent decrease considering the circumstances and the market. This signals to your landlord that you are price-conscious but want to stay. You have nothing to lose by getting in front of the "annual" rent increase discussion, and there's always the chance they'll say yes.
If they say no there are other things of value you can offer your landlord from there in the conversation that are not a monthly rent increase - namely, to sign a lease and lock rent in. Your landlord surely knows that rents are down and likely to keep going down, and you are month-to-month and the market rate will most likely not be as favorable if you were to leave. You may want to stay long term, but who knows, this is the year of uncertainty. If they didn't like your initial decrease proposal, this will seem like a win-win compromise for everyone if you pitch it that way.
posted by bradbane at 1:43 PM on December 3, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks all for the advice so far. With these sorts of issues I can definitely overshare or over-communicate information where shorter would be better. Should I bring up the market rate or apartments staying unrented for longer periods of time? Just say hey given this year we'd like a decrease (if possible?)?
posted by Carillon at 2:00 PM on December 3, 2020
posted by Carillon at 2:00 PM on December 3, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks everyone, spoke with my landlady today and used MustangMamaVE's script, and got the desired outcome. Appreciate the help and giving me the best way forward.
posted by Carillon at 3:08 PM on January 6, 2021
posted by Carillon at 3:08 PM on January 6, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
Vague enough to simply discourage her without committing to dramatic action.
posted by cacao at 12:49 PM on December 2, 2020 [5 favorites]