Help me stop feeling angsty about texting non-responders
November 22, 2020 6:28 PM Subscribe
I want to keep in contact with people, but when they don't text back I get hurt and offended, whether I should be or not. How do I feel better about this?
So I have a group of friends--a new one circa 2019--that I met through activities, and primarily hung out with during activities. There was some group texting off and on here and there and some private texting here and there, and this bunch does do Facebook except I don't (I don't feel safe there), but they weren't majorly online compared to other friends I have. Nowadays, that's a problem.
Per the pandemic, I've been making attempts off and on to stay in contact with these people, but it hasn't been going that well. They all prefer in person, but I've only done that with one of them pretty briefly and the way things are going now I should probably give up on any more "in person" for the winter. I wanted a group check-in text and only two responded and didn't say much on said text, so that died out by April. (One person was all "I don't want my phone blowing up," but lemme tell ya, my phone has blown up with texts ONCE all pandemic.) Group online activities/Zooming isn't doable for most of them and the one that did do that stuff dropped out of it after a while. Most don't respond to email. And these days it's not like anyone makes actual physical phone calls much, so I haven't tried that one. It feels really demanding of me to do that since they are all Having Issues on top of pandemic.
My closest friends in this group have all been going through shit, like having to constantly be working all the time, having a fire (yeah, guess who there), one's been trying to get custody of her kids away from her abusive ex and has had two small children underfoot all of the time and has told me she's been frozen/freaking out, another basically went Blue Screen Of Death after the protests this summer for months and nobody could even talk to him. Some others surface here and there, others are totally gone.
Here's where I'm going with this: it seems like text is the general mode of communication with this crowd, or was, anyway, but sometimes they just don't respond at all (and it's probably not "broken phone, not getting texts" on anyone's end) if I text them first, and it really pisses me off and hurts my feelings and triggers all kinds of rejection shit. Like I know objectively/per my therapist that it's pandemic, they are all going through awful depressing shit, and it's probably not that they've decided to ghost me. BUT IT FEELS LIKE THEY WANT ME TO GO AWAY when they ignore me. I feel like it's "take a hint, bitch, don't want to talk to you, go away forever." How am I supposed to know the difference between ghosting and "I'm just not in the mood right now for weeks/months on end?" from where I am? We don't have a long enough history that I trust that they will still be around when this is over. It makes me feel shitty about trying to contact them first AGAIN (none of them are initiating much, maybe once or twice apiece since March) and then getting blown off AGAIN. I keep debating whether or not to keep trying, because I want to keep this group at least in contact in the event that we can ever be together in person again and it seems like it'll die off if I'm not the one making the moves. But I feel shitty when there's a hit and a miss and then I want to try even less. I haven't talked to one person in three weeks and the others it's been several months and I feel bad about all of that and I want to know how they are doing, but I know I'll feel worse if I try and get ignored AGAIN. It's like I lose my self-respect if I try, and come off needy. I'm already mad and resentful at lack of response, but I'll be mad at them and myself if I keep trying when nobody wants me to.
I also strongly think I'm going to lose these friends since the friends I have had that stuck around (a) have been in my life for a few years before and (b) tend to be more online/communicative. This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online, and I'm not okay with that. I think I am going to have to be the initiator these days, which I am only somewhat comfortable with anyway. But I'm really just feeling hurt and confused at being ignored, and to me it's rude because I will respond to someone even if I don't want to (right now I am straight up mad at someone but still answer their texts) and I don't get why blowing someone off is okay. My therapist says she does it herself and it's not rude and it's not personal, but I'm still super bothered. Like they don't care about me? I'm not special enough to talk to?
How do I get over being bothered by being ignored? How do I stick with contacting people when it may be a swing and a miss and not just feel wounded and stupid that I tried?
So I have a group of friends--a new one circa 2019--that I met through activities, and primarily hung out with during activities. There was some group texting off and on here and there and some private texting here and there, and this bunch does do Facebook except I don't (I don't feel safe there), but they weren't majorly online compared to other friends I have. Nowadays, that's a problem.
Per the pandemic, I've been making attempts off and on to stay in contact with these people, but it hasn't been going that well. They all prefer in person, but I've only done that with one of them pretty briefly and the way things are going now I should probably give up on any more "in person" for the winter. I wanted a group check-in text and only two responded and didn't say much on said text, so that died out by April. (One person was all "I don't want my phone blowing up," but lemme tell ya, my phone has blown up with texts ONCE all pandemic.) Group online activities/Zooming isn't doable for most of them and the one that did do that stuff dropped out of it after a while. Most don't respond to email. And these days it's not like anyone makes actual physical phone calls much, so I haven't tried that one. It feels really demanding of me to do that since they are all Having Issues on top of pandemic.
My closest friends in this group have all been going through shit, like having to constantly be working all the time, having a fire (yeah, guess who there), one's been trying to get custody of her kids away from her abusive ex and has had two small children underfoot all of the time and has told me she's been frozen/freaking out, another basically went Blue Screen Of Death after the protests this summer for months and nobody could even talk to him. Some others surface here and there, others are totally gone.
Here's where I'm going with this: it seems like text is the general mode of communication with this crowd, or was, anyway, but sometimes they just don't respond at all (and it's probably not "broken phone, not getting texts" on anyone's end) if I text them first, and it really pisses me off and hurts my feelings and triggers all kinds of rejection shit. Like I know objectively/per my therapist that it's pandemic, they are all going through awful depressing shit, and it's probably not that they've decided to ghost me. BUT IT FEELS LIKE THEY WANT ME TO GO AWAY when they ignore me. I feel like it's "take a hint, bitch, don't want to talk to you, go away forever." How am I supposed to know the difference between ghosting and "I'm just not in the mood right now for weeks/months on end?" from where I am? We don't have a long enough history that I trust that they will still be around when this is over. It makes me feel shitty about trying to contact them first AGAIN (none of them are initiating much, maybe once or twice apiece since March) and then getting blown off AGAIN. I keep debating whether or not to keep trying, because I want to keep this group at least in contact in the event that we can ever be together in person again and it seems like it'll die off if I'm not the one making the moves. But I feel shitty when there's a hit and a miss and then I want to try even less. I haven't talked to one person in three weeks and the others it's been several months and I feel bad about all of that and I want to know how they are doing, but I know I'll feel worse if I try and get ignored AGAIN. It's like I lose my self-respect if I try, and come off needy. I'm already mad and resentful at lack of response, but I'll be mad at them and myself if I keep trying when nobody wants me to.
I also strongly think I'm going to lose these friends since the friends I have had that stuck around (a) have been in my life for a few years before and (b) tend to be more online/communicative. This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online, and I'm not okay with that. I think I am going to have to be the initiator these days, which I am only somewhat comfortable with anyway. But I'm really just feeling hurt and confused at being ignored, and to me it's rude because I will respond to someone even if I don't want to (right now I am straight up mad at someone but still answer their texts) and I don't get why blowing someone off is okay. My therapist says she does it herself and it's not rude and it's not personal, but I'm still super bothered. Like they don't care about me? I'm not special enough to talk to?
How do I get over being bothered by being ignored? How do I stick with contacting people when it may be a swing and a miss and not just feel wounded and stupid that I tried?
Try texting s short non-confrontational question that is easily answered in just with very few words. Something reasonable that the correspondent would know and would expect few others to be able to respond. Informational/factual, non-controversial, not opinion.
Don't take it personally, many of us are poor correspondents in thus emoji distractedly age.
posted by sammyo at 7:07 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
Don't take it personally, many of us are poor correspondents in thus emoji distractedly age.
posted by sammyo at 7:07 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
If I didn't hear from someone I would be worried about them, not about myself. You've said that you know they're going through a lot, but it doesn't seem like you understand what it's like to be overwhelmed (since you mention that you always answer texts yourself). I think you should try to convince yourself to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe reach out and say something like 'I know things have been crazy, hope you're doing okay, let me know if you ever want to talk' or whatever indicates that you understand that they might *not* be able to talk right now. This might also help you reshape the narrative in your head, since it doesn't make you sound needy, but caring.
posted by pinochiette at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2020 [19 favorites]
It's always a little bit hurtful when you make a bid for connection to someone and they seemingly reject it, so it's not surprising that you're feeling hurt.
But at the same time, you're reading a whole lot into situations -- especially in regard to motives -- that just isn't there. It's like intellectually you know that no one is trying to hurt you and that they have other shit going on right now, but that information isn't making it over the barrier into your emotional response which is based on worst case scenario reads of why they are doing it.
I could itemize all the "reasonable" reasons why I might not respond to a text message, but they aren't going to make you feel better. And they aren't necessarily the same reasons your friends are not responding anyway.
Part of the problem is probably that you aren't on Facebook. Unfortunately, the nature of Facebook is that it sucks up people's time and attention and if they're spending their (limited) connection with friends energy there, they just might not have enough left to also spend some on different forms of communication. It's not you that you aren't important, but that among all their friends, you are the one they can't reach on the platform they spend most their time on and you are the one who doesn't show up in the side window as online, so it's just an extra burden to think about whether now is a good time to respond. Plus, text messages are more likely to be personal and require a sort of emotional engagement that sharing memes on FB doesn't, even if it's just answering the question 'hey, how are you?'
I think the way to keep your connection with your friends is to reach out with super low key, seemingly low effort touches that don't demand a response. Don't send questions that need answers unless they are very easy (how are you? is not an easy question in this day and age). Send a stupid meme that made you think of them, or a link. Something they can respond to with an emoji or without having to go deep. It's a very shallow sort of connection, obviously, but it keeps a line open for the future. I have one friend I'm mostly keeping in touch with by sending her pictures of masks I think she might like. Responding to that is what she's got in her right now. Sending that is about what I've got in me right now.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:11 PM on November 22, 2020 [34 favorites]
But at the same time, you're reading a whole lot into situations -- especially in regard to motives -- that just isn't there. It's like intellectually you know that no one is trying to hurt you and that they have other shit going on right now, but that information isn't making it over the barrier into your emotional response which is based on worst case scenario reads of why they are doing it.
I could itemize all the "reasonable" reasons why I might not respond to a text message, but they aren't going to make you feel better. And they aren't necessarily the same reasons your friends are not responding anyway.
Part of the problem is probably that you aren't on Facebook. Unfortunately, the nature of Facebook is that it sucks up people's time and attention and if they're spending their (limited) connection with friends energy there, they just might not have enough left to also spend some on different forms of communication. It's not you that you aren't important, but that among all their friends, you are the one they can't reach on the platform they spend most their time on and you are the one who doesn't show up in the side window as online, so it's just an extra burden to think about whether now is a good time to respond. Plus, text messages are more likely to be personal and require a sort of emotional engagement that sharing memes on FB doesn't, even if it's just answering the question 'hey, how are you?'
I think the way to keep your connection with your friends is to reach out with super low key, seemingly low effort touches that don't demand a response. Don't send questions that need answers unless they are very easy (how are you? is not an easy question in this day and age). Send a stupid meme that made you think of them, or a link. Something they can respond to with an emoji or without having to go deep. It's a very shallow sort of connection, obviously, but it keeps a line open for the future. I have one friend I'm mostly keeping in touch with by sending her pictures of masks I think she might like. Responding to that is what she's got in her right now. Sending that is about what I've got in me right now.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:11 PM on November 22, 2020 [34 favorites]
Take all the energy you want to pour into them and spend it on yourself.
I've been experiencing something similar. And every time those feelings of unworthiness come, I do something on a project. Clean the stove. Organize a drawer. Throw out a box of useless stuff. Make terrible synthesizer songs. Take a walk. It hasn't really changed anything, but my kitchen looks amazing.
I've spent so much time trying to puzzle out how to initiate with other people. How to reach out. And the only thing I've discovered is that maybe some of us just can't. I still wonder about it. But I'm trying harder to just accept it and let it be.
posted by transitional procedures at 7:20 PM on November 22, 2020 [23 favorites]
I've been experiencing something similar. And every time those feelings of unworthiness come, I do something on a project. Clean the stove. Organize a drawer. Throw out a box of useless stuff. Make terrible synthesizer songs. Take a walk. It hasn't really changed anything, but my kitchen looks amazing.
I've spent so much time trying to puzzle out how to initiate with other people. How to reach out. And the only thing I've discovered is that maybe some of us just can't. I still wonder about it. But I'm trying harder to just accept it and let it be.
posted by transitional procedures at 7:20 PM on November 22, 2020 [23 favorites]
Oh dear, this sounds tough and hard. But I think right now we all need to give each other the benefit of the doubt. If you are a person without kids, it's really easy to underestimate how difficult a time this is for parents. You said "Having Issues" like they're dramatic. But like, dealing with custody sucks. A lot of this really sucks.
Also, this:
And these days it's not like anyone makes actual physical phone calls much, so I haven't tried that one.
I think this has changed completely. I agreed with you until April or so. Since then I've tried to make texts and video calls into phone calls when possible. A lot of us have Zoom fatigue, and texting can be exhausting if you're already on your phone too much.
I wonder if it might be worth one more shot. Don't do a group text. Text a few folks individually. "I miss you and wonder how you are doing. Is there a time we could catch up by phone? Or please feel free to call me whenever you have a minute, and I'll make time." It's much easier for me to call folks spontaneously too, when I happen to have a minute. So maybe make yourself open to that?
I'd also suggest texting/calling some old friends. It sounds like you really need connection, and they might too.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:08 PM on November 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
Also, this:
And these days it's not like anyone makes actual physical phone calls much, so I haven't tried that one.
I think this has changed completely. I agreed with you until April or so. Since then I've tried to make texts and video calls into phone calls when possible. A lot of us have Zoom fatigue, and texting can be exhausting if you're already on your phone too much.
I wonder if it might be worth one more shot. Don't do a group text. Text a few folks individually. "I miss you and wonder how you are doing. Is there a time we could catch up by phone? Or please feel free to call me whenever you have a minute, and I'll make time." It's much easier for me to call folks spontaneously too, when I happen to have a minute. So maybe make yourself open to that?
I'd also suggest texting/calling some old friends. It sounds like you really need connection, and they might too.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:08 PM on November 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
Texting is so so stressful when I'm stressed, and I stare at it with that fishmouth 'how do I even word?' and have no idea what to say or type on my tiny phone, it's like when you're suddenly on the spot on stage and just stand there with mouth open and gaping, and if everyone is kind, they'll just redirect to someone who can actually reply, but if I don't reply right away then it will be washed away by the flood of beep-bing-mail-notifications-the-world-is-still-on-fire-calls-emails-covid-I'm-depressed-and-all-my-social-contacts-have-turned-into-terrifying-obligations-because-I'm-not-keeping-up-with-them-even-though-I'm-so-lonely-&-I'm-overwhelmed-Alarms-message-notification-Trump-hasdonesomethingdonesomethingdonesomething-Website-notification-I'm-late-beep-I-haven't-eaten-or-done-dishes-boop-bing-I-have-a-backlog-of-replies-and-the-best-I-can-do-is-an-emoji
I have best friends who've moved overseas, and good friends who've let me know well in advance that they are terrible long-distance friends, that when we can be in-person friends, we'll just pick up right where we left off even if we haven't seen each other again, and it won't be awkward, but that they (and I!) are terrible at keeping up distance communication, and that that will be ok.
People who were not good at text-based communication in the vast 'before' are probably not going to get good at it when they are stressed.
I have a rule of three. I make three invites to something without being reciprocated, especially if I know they are stressed, before I put communicating with them on hold until they get back to me.
But with the texting thing - that just might not be a workable way to keep up with these people.
If I'm overwhelmed, it's the worst way to keep up with me - it just contributes to making me feeling overwhelmed, even if I appreciate the thought of someone wanting to keep up and am lonely. I'm apparently a real freak for my generation, and find a phonecall much less stressful. I don't have to look at it or type, and I can keep doing something else with my hands, and I don't have to second-third-fourth guess what I'm saying or typing. I tell people this, but they keep texting me, and it keeps freaking me out, and I'm not sure what else I can say at this point other than have a little melt down about it.
So, if I was messaging, it would only be to ask what *their* preferred way of keeping in touch at the moment is. Maybe there's a group zoom call. Maybe it's socially distanced picnic. And I might just accept that I'll see them when there's a non-stressful way to do that.
posted by Elysum at 8:18 PM on November 22, 2020 [17 favorites]
I have best friends who've moved overseas, and good friends who've let me know well in advance that they are terrible long-distance friends, that when we can be in-person friends, we'll just pick up right where we left off even if we haven't seen each other again, and it won't be awkward, but that they (and I!) are terrible at keeping up distance communication, and that that will be ok.
People who were not good at text-based communication in the vast 'before' are probably not going to get good at it when they are stressed.
I have a rule of three. I make three invites to something without being reciprocated, especially if I know they are stressed, before I put communicating with them on hold until they get back to me.
But with the texting thing - that just might not be a workable way to keep up with these people.
If I'm overwhelmed, it's the worst way to keep up with me - it just contributes to making me feeling overwhelmed, even if I appreciate the thought of someone wanting to keep up and am lonely. I'm apparently a real freak for my generation, and find a phonecall much less stressful. I don't have to look at it or type, and I can keep doing something else with my hands, and I don't have to second-third-fourth guess what I'm saying or typing. I tell people this, but they keep texting me, and it keeps freaking me out, and I'm not sure what else I can say at this point other than have a little melt down about it.
So, if I was messaging, it would only be to ask what *their* preferred way of keeping in touch at the moment is. Maybe there's a group zoom call. Maybe it's socially distanced picnic. And I might just accept that I'll see them when there's a non-stressful way to do that.
posted by Elysum at 8:18 PM on November 22, 2020 [17 favorites]
But I'm really just feeling hurt and confused at being ignored, and to me it's rude because I will respond to someone even if I don't want to (right now I am straight up mad at someone but still answer their texts)
Gently, I think if you're initiating but then feeling this way when people don't reply, you're not really giving anybody an option that's going to work for both you and them - either they're texting back to appease you but at a cost to themselves (which is not conducive to long-term friendship), or they're prioritizing their own well-being but hurting you by doing so. Would it help to remember that not everyone makes themselves communicate when they don't feel up to it? For some people, keeping up communication is a form of having to be "on," which can be incredibly difficult when all of your emotional energy is needed to deal with other things going on in your life. Choosing not to answer can be a form of necessary self-care, no matter how much they appreciate your friendship.
I am like this, and when I'm stressed it honestly doesn't matter what channel is being used (though I do loathe texting in general - autocorrect means I have to fix every other damn word, then I can never see if the other person is typing back or if I'm free to go, and the whole thing is just really stressful to me). There are just times when I need to pull in take care of myself, and this year I've been in that mode a whole heck of a lot. Honestly, sometimes I do want people to go away and leave me alone, but it's not because of anything about them - I just feel maxed out on things that need my energy and attention, so even "demands" that would otherwise be welcome are just too much. The kind of friend I've tended to keep throughout the years is the kind who is okay with delayed responses or the occasional silence and can pick up again later - some people are like this and some aren't; I think it's a matter of compatibility more so than how much anybody cares about the others.
If I'm reading your question right, you don't want this friend group to dissolve and are concerned that it will if you don't keep texting - but texting isn't getting you what you want, and people in this group have expressed that they're really going through difficulties. Would it help to recognize that you can't and won't keep the group together through your actions? It sounds like right now, due to external circumstances, the group is basically "hibernating." Maybe focus on other areas of your life and check in with these folks once it's possible to safely resume the activities that used to be central to your friendships.
I'm sorry you're going through this and hope that in the meantime you're getting the kind of emotional connections you desire from your older/longer-term friends.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:21 PM on November 22, 2020 [20 favorites]
Gently, I think if you're initiating but then feeling this way when people don't reply, you're not really giving anybody an option that's going to work for both you and them - either they're texting back to appease you but at a cost to themselves (which is not conducive to long-term friendship), or they're prioritizing their own well-being but hurting you by doing so. Would it help to remember that not everyone makes themselves communicate when they don't feel up to it? For some people, keeping up communication is a form of having to be "on," which can be incredibly difficult when all of your emotional energy is needed to deal with other things going on in your life. Choosing not to answer can be a form of necessary self-care, no matter how much they appreciate your friendship.
I am like this, and when I'm stressed it honestly doesn't matter what channel is being used (though I do loathe texting in general - autocorrect means I have to fix every other damn word, then I can never see if the other person is typing back or if I'm free to go, and the whole thing is just really stressful to me). There are just times when I need to pull in take care of myself, and this year I've been in that mode a whole heck of a lot. Honestly, sometimes I do want people to go away and leave me alone, but it's not because of anything about them - I just feel maxed out on things that need my energy and attention, so even "demands" that would otherwise be welcome are just too much. The kind of friend I've tended to keep throughout the years is the kind who is okay with delayed responses or the occasional silence and can pick up again later - some people are like this and some aren't; I think it's a matter of compatibility more so than how much anybody cares about the others.
If I'm reading your question right, you don't want this friend group to dissolve and are concerned that it will if you don't keep texting - but texting isn't getting you what you want, and people in this group have expressed that they're really going through difficulties. Would it help to recognize that you can't and won't keep the group together through your actions? It sounds like right now, due to external circumstances, the group is basically "hibernating." Maybe focus on other areas of your life and check in with these folks once it's possible to safely resume the activities that used to be central to your friendships.
I'm sorry you're going through this and hope that in the meantime you're getting the kind of emotional connections you desire from your older/longer-term friends.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:21 PM on November 22, 2020 [20 favorites]
I'm so exhausted by life these days. (And I don't even have kids: my heart goes out to all the exhausted parents!) While I do occasionally text with a friend or two (and sometimes call my parents), my form of staying in touch these days is social media, mostly Instagram and a little Facebook. I can see what people post and comment or like or send a DM and they can too. But mostly I am just too tired to do anything other than survive. I have a few friends with whom I am literally months and months behind in contacting. I know I'll get in touch more when my life stabilizes and I'm sure they will, too. I'm always so touched when someone reaches out! But I also am not upset when someone doesn't reply.
When it comes to dating, I will delete or block people who ghost. (Dating is pretty awful right now due to COVID limitations and people not being their best. But I can understand that, too.) When it comes to friends, I have lots of patience and grace. I think what's hard here is that these friends of yours are relatively new so it's hard to tell if they're not interested or just overwhelmed. I can guarantee you that they are probably just overwhelmed. I agree with others: reach out individually to check in but also give them space. Reach out to older friends! There are always going to be people who want to connect with you if you look in the "right" places. Write texts or emails or leave voice mails that include the lines "No need to respond. I know you're busy. Just thinking of you and hoping you're well!" I also hate Facebook but had to make an account for expat groups. It's been OK and a good way to stay updated: you can use a nickname, post a picture of a pet, etc. I understand your hesitation to re/join but you also need to understand that, by not doing so, you are choosing to exclude yourself. This is 100% OK but you can't be really upset at them for not reaching out in a way you'd like if you're not reaching out in a way they like, you know? I say this without any judgment but rather something to think of to be gentler on yourself and them, too.
I'm so sorry. You are clearly such an awesome person based on your presence at MetaFilter. I wish you were feeling that same love and connection in person these days, too!
posted by smorgasbord at 10:01 PM on November 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
When it comes to dating, I will delete or block people who ghost. (Dating is pretty awful right now due to COVID limitations and people not being their best. But I can understand that, too.) When it comes to friends, I have lots of patience and grace. I think what's hard here is that these friends of yours are relatively new so it's hard to tell if they're not interested or just overwhelmed. I can guarantee you that they are probably just overwhelmed. I agree with others: reach out individually to check in but also give them space. Reach out to older friends! There are always going to be people who want to connect with you if you look in the "right" places. Write texts or emails or leave voice mails that include the lines "No need to respond. I know you're busy. Just thinking of you and hoping you're well!" I also hate Facebook but had to make an account for expat groups. It's been OK and a good way to stay updated: you can use a nickname, post a picture of a pet, etc. I understand your hesitation to re/join but you also need to understand that, by not doing so, you are choosing to exclude yourself. This is 100% OK but you can't be really upset at them for not reaching out in a way you'd like if you're not reaching out in a way they like, you know? I say this without any judgment but rather something to think of to be gentler on yourself and them, too.
I'm so sorry. You are clearly such an awesome person based on your presence at MetaFilter. I wish you were feeling that same love and connection in person these days, too!
posted by smorgasbord at 10:01 PM on November 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
Some people just don’t text well. I am one of those people. Talking on the phone is so easy and fun, texting is just work. Sometimes, I just can’t make myself do it. I hate it so. Why should I have to dig ditches (which is what it feels like to me) to talk to my friends? I only do it for kids, bc they can’t connect any other way. They won’t answer the phone. If they do they are surly and short. Yet I can spend hours with them otherwise. They just seem offended when someone tries to talk to them on the phone. Rather than dismissing them as ungrateful wretches, I make allowances for their dislike of phone talking, and stick to texting and in person talking.
Most people who dislike texting keep that secret. People make fun of us. If someone doesn’t respond as you expect, maybe give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are secret text haters like me.
posted by KayQuestions at 10:03 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
Most people who dislike texting keep that secret. People make fun of us. If someone doesn’t respond as you expect, maybe give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are secret text haters like me.
posted by KayQuestions at 10:03 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
and this bunch does do Facebook except I don't
If they’re keeping in touch, this is probably how, though. I think for a lot of not-super-close friends or acquaintances social media is the only contact they have. Which doesn’t help if you don’t use it, I understand.
posted by Violet Hour at 10:48 PM on November 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
If they’re keeping in touch, this is probably how, though. I think for a lot of not-super-close friends or acquaintances social media is the only contact they have. Which doesn’t help if you don’t use it, I understand.
posted by Violet Hour at 10:48 PM on November 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure if not doing Facebook is something you're willing to revisit, but I have a number of online friends I basically keep in touch with *entirely* through comments on posts, and who I've never or very rarely communicated with though direct messages. It's so much less taxing to be able to kind of check in there with a bunch of people, than it is for me to send individual messages or even participate in group chats. And the idea that it's less meaningful is only true if you make it that way. They aren't lesser friendships to me, they're just different.
As another commenter above said, you aren't really giving people who just can't do texting well right now another option. And the way you feel makes sense emotionally, but in interpreting those feelings you are giving a lot of meaning that you don't know is real to people's behaviors. That's making it hard on you and them, which then creates a vicious cycle of feeling even *more* guilty and angry about not answering / not receiving answers to texts.
posted by augustimagination at 11:38 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
As another commenter above said, you aren't really giving people who just can't do texting well right now another option. And the way you feel makes sense emotionally, but in interpreting those feelings you are giving a lot of meaning that you don't know is real to people's behaviors. That's making it hard on you and them, which then creates a vicious cycle of feeling even *more* guilty and angry about not answering / not receiving answers to texts.
posted by augustimagination at 11:38 PM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
Please don’t take it personally, it’s just how things are: https://twitter.com/dinoman_j/status/1318268306357440521?s=21
posted by rd45 at 12:08 AM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rd45 at 12:08 AM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Life is majestically improved by deciding to not take things personally or make assumptions. You are doing both in spades and it sets up expectations that have not been agreed to and can't be met.
posted by Thella at 12:32 AM on November 23, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by Thella at 12:32 AM on November 23, 2020 [14 favorites]
YMMV of course, but... I posted a very similar question in the past, and my current self looks back and realizes how much of that anxiety was my own insecurity manifesting, and other personal shit that I was projecting onto the other person(s); framing it as their failure.... when in fact, people are gonna do their thing and there's nothing you can do about it. One of the comments to my question was, "You are the one with unreasonable expectations here" which was hard to learn but very true. It was my problem to solve for myself, and there was more to it than I was willing to admit. In my case, I turned the non-texting-back into a lot more about relationships and how others felt about me and all kinds of spiraling. (Not saying you are doing that of course. Just my 2 cents.)
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 2:43 AM on November 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 2:43 AM on November 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
I went through exactly this earlier this year. I agree with most of what everyone above said. I am working hard to turn the energy i was spending *waiting* for people into action I can take for myself. No point second guessing what their intentions are and everyone got really weird during the pandemic so most of my guesses are probably wrong.
With dating I have been blocking people who ghost. With friends, family, or acquaintances I've taken the initiative to email them saying that chat doesn't seem to be working for *me*, and so if there's anything they'd like to chat about or discuss, they should send an email.
This made me feel a bit more in control of the (lack of) dialogue, and I've actually had some happy surprises with some people enjoying the 'novelty' of sending emails back and forth. They still seem unreliable though.
There may not be an easy answer to this one, but you aren't alone in it. My intuition says it's probably not about you.
posted by jpziller at 4:19 AM on November 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
With dating I have been blocking people who ghost. With friends, family, or acquaintances I've taken the initiative to email them saying that chat doesn't seem to be working for *me*, and so if there's anything they'd like to chat about or discuss, they should send an email.
This made me feel a bit more in control of the (lack of) dialogue, and I've actually had some happy surprises with some people enjoying the 'novelty' of sending emails back and forth. They still seem unreliable though.
There may not be an easy answer to this one, but you aren't alone in it. My intuition says it's probably not about you.
posted by jpziller at 4:19 AM on November 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
I completely understand how bad it feels when people don't respond to your overtures. I'm dealing with some of the same thing myself in the pandemic. But here is the thing. I am making choices to do certain things rather than others with my limited attention and emotional energy, - e.g. watch TV rather than reading; see a text flash up on my screen and reply to it later rather than now. That's valid, and I'm allowed to do that. By the same token, people don't have to reply to my communicative overtures if they have something else that is more important that they need to do with their limited emotional energy. That's valid and nothing to do with me. I have to tell myself that over and over again. It is a fact. Whereas my feeling of being sidelined, less important, boring, etc... Those are feelings. Not facts.
I find that since the pandemic hit I've been able to clearly demarcate my weak connections from my strong ones. The strong ones are with people I've known for a long time who are invested in our friendship and who interface with me on a 1:1 basis. The weak ones, I don't know as well, and don't interface so much on a 1:1 level - for these people, social media is pretty much the only way I've found to successfully maintain those connections. I use 'weak' as a descriptor but not as a value judgement. We all have a limited amount of emotional and social energy at the moment and if I want to maintain my connections, weak and strong, I need to be ok with meeting those people where they are at and not try to drive them into becoming stronger connections.
If I understand correctly these friends aren't texting much anymore but are still active on Facebook. Is that right? I hate Facebook. Your issues with it are valid. But I don't think you can, alone, get a group of people to stop using that as their communication tool of choice. You may find that as long as you stay off Facebook you're just not going to have the level of responsiveness you want from this particular group of friends.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I find that since the pandemic hit I've been able to clearly demarcate my weak connections from my strong ones. The strong ones are with people I've known for a long time who are invested in our friendship and who interface with me on a 1:1 basis. The weak ones, I don't know as well, and don't interface so much on a 1:1 level - for these people, social media is pretty much the only way I've found to successfully maintain those connections. I use 'weak' as a descriptor but not as a value judgement. We all have a limited amount of emotional and social energy at the moment and if I want to maintain my connections, weak and strong, I need to be ok with meeting those people where they are at and not try to drive them into becoming stronger connections.
If I understand correctly these friends aren't texting much anymore but are still active on Facebook. Is that right? I hate Facebook. Your issues with it are valid. But I don't think you can, alone, get a group of people to stop using that as their communication tool of choice. You may find that as long as you stay off Facebook you're just not going to have the level of responsiveness you want from this particular group of friends.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Oh, one more thing -- a step before the 'email to say this is my preferred mode of communication' was to actively *ignore* some of the non-responsive people on WhatsApp (or wherever). That relieved me of the pressure of waiting for a notification, because it made it impossible for me to receive one. I'd set ignore times for a week or so to 'take a break' from their silence.
YMMV, but this also helped me feel a bit more in control of things.
posted by jpziller at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2020
YMMV, but this also helped me feel a bit more in control of things.
posted by jpziller at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2020
I don't think you should text the nonrespondents any longer. They know how to reach you and if they can they will.
Once I spent the good part of a year obsessing over a nontexter. It's a horrible horrible way to live and I was stuck in a rumination cycle. The only thing that broke it was the nontexter getting in touch. It was like a spell was broken. And after that I didnt particularly want to initiate any further contact and would only reciprocate, because I think reciprocating even if noncommital is polite.
But it wasn't the nontexters fault for being "impolite" (well, they had some fault) it was me flipping because I didn't have control over the situation. I was in a bad place and demanding things (silently, seethingly) from someone who was also in a bad place. They didn't hate me or not want to be friends, they just had stuff going on that made texting sad or hard or a burden.
And once they contacted me I felt better because my brain could rest saying, "ok this issue is closed."
But what if they never reached out? I would still be thinking about them because I didn't figure out how to stop. I wish I spent a fraction of the time spent obsessing instead towards training my brain away from those repetitive thoughts because THAT is control, not someone sending me a text.
posted by jello at 4:22 AM on November 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
Once I spent the good part of a year obsessing over a nontexter. It's a horrible horrible way to live and I was stuck in a rumination cycle. The only thing that broke it was the nontexter getting in touch. It was like a spell was broken. And after that I didnt particularly want to initiate any further contact and would only reciprocate, because I think reciprocating even if noncommital is polite.
But it wasn't the nontexters fault for being "impolite" (well, they had some fault) it was me flipping because I didn't have control over the situation. I was in a bad place and demanding things (silently, seethingly) from someone who was also in a bad place. They didn't hate me or not want to be friends, they just had stuff going on that made texting sad or hard or a burden.
And once they contacted me I felt better because my brain could rest saying, "ok this issue is closed."
But what if they never reached out? I would still be thinking about them because I didn't figure out how to stop. I wish I spent a fraction of the time spent obsessing instead towards training my brain away from those repetitive thoughts because THAT is control, not someone sending me a text.
posted by jello at 4:22 AM on November 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
I am an example of a non-responder. The pandemic has trammelled my correspondence speed from slow to nonexistent. The threshold of Things I Can Deal With right now is low, and replying to communications— even from people I care about— has to be less of a priority than making sure there’s food in the house, work gets done, pets are looked after and bills are paid.
In case it’s helpful, here are some things that make me less likely to respond to messages:
— “How are you?” or “How’s it going?” This is the worst and most unanswerable question right now. In my own correspondence I’ve started replacing it with statements so people don’t feel burdened to answer. “Hope your day is good.” “Hope you’ve been well”. “Hope [thing] is going OK.”
— Emotionally loaded stuff like “I miss you” or “I was worried about you”. I get that for some people this is a love language, but for me it says “Hello exhausted person, now you have to deal with my Emotions as well as your own.”
—Repeated attempts. If I’m already stressed about not having responded to someone’s message, a second one saying “Hey, are you OK?” (another unanswerable question) will shut it down completely.
I am also finding that the pandemic has completely randomized who I keep in touch with. There are people I’ve known for decades and care deeply about but haven’t spoken to in months, and there are people I know less well with whom I’ve ended up in regular contact. It seems to be a case of communication styles matching up in these new conditions, as much as anything else.
So, your friends still love you. They’re just dealing with a lot right now. We’re all varying degrees of not OK, and they may or may not want to talk about it. One potential way to show them love and mercy is to make it clear that your messages carry no obligation to respond. They’ll be in touch when they’re ready. Like stray cats, you’ve just got to trust that they’re out there and you’ll see them eventually.
In my experience as a slow/intermittent correspondent, my long-term friends tend to be the same. I know they’re there and they know I’m there, and even if we don’t talk for months, we can always pick up where we left off.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:03 AM on November 23, 2020 [31 favorites]
In case it’s helpful, here are some things that make me less likely to respond to messages:
— “How are you?” or “How’s it going?” This is the worst and most unanswerable question right now. In my own correspondence I’ve started replacing it with statements so people don’t feel burdened to answer. “Hope your day is good.” “Hope you’ve been well”. “Hope [thing] is going OK.”
— Emotionally loaded stuff like “I miss you” or “I was worried about you”. I get that for some people this is a love language, but for me it says “Hello exhausted person, now you have to deal with my Emotions as well as your own.”
—Repeated attempts. If I’m already stressed about not having responded to someone’s message, a second one saying “Hey, are you OK?” (another unanswerable question) will shut it down completely.
I am also finding that the pandemic has completely randomized who I keep in touch with. There are people I’ve known for decades and care deeply about but haven’t spoken to in months, and there are people I know less well with whom I’ve ended up in regular contact. It seems to be a case of communication styles matching up in these new conditions, as much as anything else.
So, your friends still love you. They’re just dealing with a lot right now. We’re all varying degrees of not OK, and they may or may not want to talk about it. One potential way to show them love and mercy is to make it clear that your messages carry no obligation to respond. They’ll be in touch when they’re ready. Like stray cats, you’ve just got to trust that they’re out there and you’ll see them eventually.
In my experience as a slow/intermittent correspondent, my long-term friends tend to be the same. I know they’re there and they know I’m there, and even if we don’t talk for months, we can always pick up where we left off.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:03 AM on November 23, 2020 [31 favorites]
I have been there, sort of, and now I'm over it mostly.
From my perspective, yes, this absolutely IS rejection. Not in any bad sense but yes, we are sending out a bid for connection and the other party does not reciprocate. This might be for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with us but other than someone losing their phone it usually means it is somewhat of a choice. They could be out of spoons, they could be prioritizing their family or their work, they could be super busy, they could feel like they just don't have anything interesting to say to anyone, not just us. But they are making a choice, and I think it could be helpful to just sit with that, and allow ourselves to grieve.
OK, grieving sounds dramatic but I think we do it all the time with small and large daily disappointments, as we grow from toddlers to adults and well, mature adults, this "getting over disappointment" grief is less painful and even less noticeable but I do think it helps to acknowledge our sadness and sit with it a bit in situations like that. I find grieving something that bothers me makes it easier to let things go and give up trying to control the other person. Yes, they might be withdrawing from the friendship and that's okay, it does not diminish me in any way and I can still think fondly of them and be open to getting closer again when they are ready. Or sometimes, I realize that I need some space from them as well but there is no bitterness involved.
All this to say, I feel you. All the best.
posted by M. at 5:09 AM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
From my perspective, yes, this absolutely IS rejection. Not in any bad sense but yes, we are sending out a bid for connection and the other party does not reciprocate. This might be for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with us but other than someone losing their phone it usually means it is somewhat of a choice. They could be out of spoons, they could be prioritizing their family or their work, they could be super busy, they could feel like they just don't have anything interesting to say to anyone, not just us. But they are making a choice, and I think it could be helpful to just sit with that, and allow ourselves to grieve.
OK, grieving sounds dramatic but I think we do it all the time with small and large daily disappointments, as we grow from toddlers to adults and well, mature adults, this "getting over disappointment" grief is less painful and even less noticeable but I do think it helps to acknowledge our sadness and sit with it a bit in situations like that. I find grieving something that bothers me makes it easier to let things go and give up trying to control the other person. Yes, they might be withdrawing from the friendship and that's okay, it does not diminish me in any way and I can still think fondly of them and be open to getting closer again when they are ready. Or sometimes, I realize that I need some space from them as well but there is no bitterness involved.
All this to say, I feel you. All the best.
posted by M. at 5:09 AM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
BUT IT FEELS LIKE THEY WANT ME TO GO AWAY when they ignore me. I feel like it's "take a hint, bitch, don't want to talk to you, go away forever." ... We don't have a long enough history that I trust that they will still be around when this is over. It makes me feel shitty about trying to contact them first AGAIN (none of them are initiating much, maybe once or twice apiece since March) and then getting blown off AGAIN.
I think you're overloading each interaction with a huge and unnecessary amount of ~meaning~. Every time you initiate a text, you are thinking, "This is it! This is the test of whether our friendship is finished forever!" And underneath that is your secret fear that the end of this friendship = the end of your social worth.
It's like, you're cutting yourself a piece of your sister's pecan pie, you're telling yourself, "This might be the last piece of my sister's pecan pie I ever eat! (And actually this might be the last delicious dessert I ever eat!! FOREVER!!)" That's like having an eating disorder, right? You don't want to approach every piece of pie like it might be your last ever, and you don't want to approach every text like it might be your last ever.
What if you took away the power of your "terminal mindset" to drive your interactions and your texting? Intentionally and consciously set it aside when you start feeling it. "Ah, it is my old friend Madam Terminal Anxiety again. How nice of you to show up. Please wait a second, I'll get right back to you after I have texted my friend."
I suspect that this might even change the reasons why you are texting your friends. Instead of texting them TO SAVE THE FRIENDSHIP LEST IT PERISH, you might text them ... to share a funny video that reminded you of them, or to make specific plans because you want to do something specific with them, or to check in with them just because you thought of them. And then, their lack of response no longer indicates to you that THEY WISH TO PERISH THIS FRIENDSHIP but rather that they were too busy in that moment to watch the video (and they later forgot all about it), or they have no idea what their schedule looks like so they're waiting until they know to get back to you, or they are being kinda rude to you by not responding to your well-meaning check-ins.
Okay! These things are much less anxiety provoking, right? Even the worst possibility, that your friend is being rude, is more manageable on a visceral emotional level than THEY WANT YOU OUT OF THEIR LIVES FOREVER. You have a protocol already for handling rudeness from friends. You can say, "Oi! Rude!" or you can try to understand that they're only coming off as rude for ~reasons~ or you can complain to your other friends about how rude this person is being, etc. etc.
If their repeated rudeness crosses a threshold, then *you* may decide to no longer bother reaching out to them. They may return later as a more peripheral friend in your life, or they may truly apologize, or they may start reaching out to you with no explanation or apology given - and you can respond to that from a place of "my friend was rude" instead of TERMINAL TERMINAL TERMINAL THEY NEARLY TERMINATED ME THEY ARE DANGEROUS THEY MIGHT TERMINATE AGAIN!!!!
All of these responses are going to feel manageable and within your capacity; you feel in control of your actions, feelings, and thoughts. Even if the friendship fizzles out, this type of end won't drain your emotional and psychological resources like the "terminal mindset" will.
posted by MiraK at 5:21 AM on November 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
I think you're overloading each interaction with a huge and unnecessary amount of ~meaning~. Every time you initiate a text, you are thinking, "This is it! This is the test of whether our friendship is finished forever!" And underneath that is your secret fear that the end of this friendship = the end of your social worth.
It's like, you're cutting yourself a piece of your sister's pecan pie, you're telling yourself, "This might be the last piece of my sister's pecan pie I ever eat! (And actually this might be the last delicious dessert I ever eat!! FOREVER!!)" That's like having an eating disorder, right? You don't want to approach every piece of pie like it might be your last ever, and you don't want to approach every text like it might be your last ever.
What if you took away the power of your "terminal mindset" to drive your interactions and your texting? Intentionally and consciously set it aside when you start feeling it. "Ah, it is my old friend Madam Terminal Anxiety again. How nice of you to show up. Please wait a second, I'll get right back to you after I have texted my friend."
I suspect that this might even change the reasons why you are texting your friends. Instead of texting them TO SAVE THE FRIENDSHIP LEST IT PERISH, you might text them ... to share a funny video that reminded you of them, or to make specific plans because you want to do something specific with them, or to check in with them just because you thought of them. And then, their lack of response no longer indicates to you that THEY WISH TO PERISH THIS FRIENDSHIP but rather that they were too busy in that moment to watch the video (and they later forgot all about it), or they have no idea what their schedule looks like so they're waiting until they know to get back to you, or they are being kinda rude to you by not responding to your well-meaning check-ins.
Okay! These things are much less anxiety provoking, right? Even the worst possibility, that your friend is being rude, is more manageable on a visceral emotional level than THEY WANT YOU OUT OF THEIR LIVES FOREVER. You have a protocol already for handling rudeness from friends. You can say, "Oi! Rude!" or you can try to understand that they're only coming off as rude for ~reasons~ or you can complain to your other friends about how rude this person is being, etc. etc.
If their repeated rudeness crosses a threshold, then *you* may decide to no longer bother reaching out to them. They may return later as a more peripheral friend in your life, or they may truly apologize, or they may start reaching out to you with no explanation or apology given - and you can respond to that from a place of "my friend was rude" instead of TERMINAL TERMINAL TERMINAL THEY NEARLY TERMINATED ME THEY ARE DANGEROUS THEY MIGHT TERMINATE AGAIN!!!!
All of these responses are going to feel manageable and within your capacity; you feel in control of your actions, feelings, and thoughts. Even if the friendship fizzles out, this type of end won't drain your emotional and psychological resources like the "terminal mindset" will.
posted by MiraK at 5:21 AM on November 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
Would it help you feel less bad if you viewed their non-responsiveness on text like your non-responsiveness on Facebook?
Also, would it make you feel better to know that when people are going through things like legal troubles or fires, they may not be able to make rational choices or sustain friendships? When I represented people facing criminal charges they would duck my phone calls and doing it would sometimes get them put in jail. Jail! And they didn't respond even after I explained why I was calling and what the consequences would be. Stressed humans may not mean to make your life difficult (or their own). They're just trying to get through the day and may not have the bandwidth to communicate with this group in two forums. I'd give yourself a break from the job of sustaining things with these folks for a few months. I bet they will be there when it's safe to meet in person again.
posted by *s at 7:31 AM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
Also, would it make you feel better to know that when people are going through things like legal troubles or fires, they may not be able to make rational choices or sustain friendships? When I represented people facing criminal charges they would duck my phone calls and doing it would sometimes get them put in jail. Jail! And they didn't respond even after I explained why I was calling and what the consequences would be. Stressed humans may not mean to make your life difficult (or their own). They're just trying to get through the day and may not have the bandwidth to communicate with this group in two forums. I'd give yourself a break from the job of sustaining things with these folks for a few months. I bet they will be there when it's safe to meet in person again.
posted by *s at 7:31 AM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
So...it seems like, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the crux of this is the fear that if you don't do the thing and do it right and get the correct response then the friend group will disappear forever and it will be your fault for not doing the thing right?
That's a very particular kind of anxiety that cannot be allayed by anything this group does right now. You are afraid of an outcome and you have not found a way to be accepting of the potential for that outcome, and until you do, you will spin. Even if everyone texted you back every time, right away, you might well find something in their tone or content to seize upon as evidence that your worst fears are coming to pass.
Your first step might be simply to envision a world in which this friend group does in fact fall apart and not reform after the pandemic. How will that world look? How will you mourn the group, and how might you move forward? Are there one or two people you'll seek out on their own later?
Once you have visualized and moved through the potential for loss, you may be able to take on a role as "the person who has the bandwidth." People do appreciate being thought of and checked on, even if they cannot reciprocate. But you have to be checking in because you care about them and want to know they're OK, and want them to know you care. You can't be checking in with the unspoken expectation that now XYZ will happen.
Honestly this is hard for me as well, so please don't think I'm being dismissive. And what has helped is just to fake it til I make it. Yeah, a part of me twinges with anxiety when I contact someone (and ugh, how I hate texting, hate hate hate it, I literally only allow it for immediate family and my two very best friends in the world--you know why people like facebook? Because it isn't texting). But I just repeat to myself "I just want them to know I'm thinking about them. That is the only thing I want." And eventually, it's pretty much the truth.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:45 AM on November 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
That's a very particular kind of anxiety that cannot be allayed by anything this group does right now. You are afraid of an outcome and you have not found a way to be accepting of the potential for that outcome, and until you do, you will spin. Even if everyone texted you back every time, right away, you might well find something in their tone or content to seize upon as evidence that your worst fears are coming to pass.
Your first step might be simply to envision a world in which this friend group does in fact fall apart and not reform after the pandemic. How will that world look? How will you mourn the group, and how might you move forward? Are there one or two people you'll seek out on their own later?
Once you have visualized and moved through the potential for loss, you may be able to take on a role as "the person who has the bandwidth." People do appreciate being thought of and checked on, even if they cannot reciprocate. But you have to be checking in because you care about them and want to know they're OK, and want them to know you care. You can't be checking in with the unspoken expectation that now XYZ will happen.
Honestly this is hard for me as well, so please don't think I'm being dismissive. And what has helped is just to fake it til I make it. Yeah, a part of me twinges with anxiety when I contact someone (and ugh, how I hate texting, hate hate hate it, I literally only allow it for immediate family and my two very best friends in the world--you know why people like facebook? Because it isn't texting). But I just repeat to myself "I just want them to know I'm thinking about them. That is the only thing I want." And eventually, it's pretty much the truth.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:45 AM on November 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
So there are a few things that are working against you:
-Fairly new group of friends, so you don’t have a long history with them/don’t know them very well
-They’re on FB, you’re not, and your reasons for not being on FB are totally legit
-They are all going through a LOT and probably don’t have the spoons to respond
-This goddamn pandemic.
Also, you seem very invested in keeping this group going, and have gotten the idea somehow, that if you don’t do it, then the group falls apart. That’s a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
So when you don’t get the response that you want, you start spiralling. You start thinking your bids for connection are unwanted, that they don’t like you, that they don’t value you in their lives and you feel uncared for. You think it’s rude to not respond. You’re hurt, mad, resentful, confused, maybe even feeling betrayed.
I think you should have a think with yourself about whether this is the right friend group for you. It’s clearly not meeting your needs. (And is what you're trying to do meeting their needs?)
Is it also possible that if you don’t text them, that you will forget about them, and that scares you?
We don't have a long enough history that I trust that they will still be around when this is over.
it seems like it'll die off if I'm not the one making the moves.
This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online, and I'm not okay with that.
Gently, I think you’re trying too hard and making yourself miserable for it. I mean it’s admirable that you want to keep the group going, but maybe they just don’t feel the same. That would have more to do with them, than with you. What's the worst possible outcome if the group didn't stay together post-pandemic and could you live with that? E.g. you couldn't do activity anymore and would have to find new people to do the activity with and you really really don't want to do that (or something)?
If you’re texting about trying to get people together to do something (e.g. zoom call, socially distanced walk), maybe it’s time to shift gears, scale it waaaay back and start sending stuff along the lines of “hey I saw this and thought of you.” Like you’re keeping the connection going but you’re not requiring them to do anything, like say yes to meeting (whether online or IRL) or even responding to you.
I will respond to someone even if I don't want to (right now I am straight up mad at someone but still answer their texts)
Also, this is not healthy. Do they know that you’re mad at them? Or are you texting stuff like “I did x thing today and it was ok/fun/not fun” through gritted teeth just so you can say (even to just yourself) “Well at least I respond even if I don’t feel like it, why can’t you?” Are you texting more so out of principle, rather than really wanting to text *them* right now? If so, I don’t think is really helping with your expectations of this friend group right now.
posted by foxjacket at 9:20 AM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
-Fairly new group of friends, so you don’t have a long history with them/don’t know them very well
-They’re on FB, you’re not, and your reasons for not being on FB are totally legit
-They are all going through a LOT and probably don’t have the spoons to respond
-This goddamn pandemic.
Also, you seem very invested in keeping this group going, and have gotten the idea somehow, that if you don’t do it, then the group falls apart. That’s a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
So when you don’t get the response that you want, you start spiralling. You start thinking your bids for connection are unwanted, that they don’t like you, that they don’t value you in their lives and you feel uncared for. You think it’s rude to not respond. You’re hurt, mad, resentful, confused, maybe even feeling betrayed.
I think you should have a think with yourself about whether this is the right friend group for you. It’s clearly not meeting your needs. (And is what you're trying to do meeting their needs?)
Is it also possible that if you don’t text them, that you will forget about them, and that scares you?
We don't have a long enough history that I trust that they will still be around when this is over.
it seems like it'll die off if I'm not the one making the moves.
This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online, and I'm not okay with that.
Gently, I think you’re trying too hard and making yourself miserable for it. I mean it’s admirable that you want to keep the group going, but maybe they just don’t feel the same. That would have more to do with them, than with you. What's the worst possible outcome if the group didn't stay together post-pandemic and could you live with that? E.g. you couldn't do activity anymore and would have to find new people to do the activity with and you really really don't want to do that (or something)?
If you’re texting about trying to get people together to do something (e.g. zoom call, socially distanced walk), maybe it’s time to shift gears, scale it waaaay back and start sending stuff along the lines of “hey I saw this and thought of you.” Like you’re keeping the connection going but you’re not requiring them to do anything, like say yes to meeting (whether online or IRL) or even responding to you.
I will respond to someone even if I don't want to (right now I am straight up mad at someone but still answer their texts)
Also, this is not healthy. Do they know that you’re mad at them? Or are you texting stuff like “I did x thing today and it was ok/fun/not fun” through gritted teeth just so you can say (even to just yourself) “Well at least I respond even if I don’t feel like it, why can’t you?” Are you texting more so out of principle, rather than really wanting to text *them* right now? If so, I don’t think is really helping with your expectations of this friend group right now.
posted by foxjacket at 9:20 AM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Also I would note that your emotional response kind of suggests that they're all like, super close and in touch all the time with EACH OTHER and just not with you? And there's definitely no reason to assume that's the truth. Maybe if they're all on a facebook page or messenger thread they are slightly more on one another's radar but I'd be shocked if they're having lots of actual interaction. The difference is that they might have seen pictures of everyone's kids at Halloween and have that fleeting, illusionary sense that they know what's up with everyone.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:49 AM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:49 AM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
I feel this SO much. There's one person in particular that I feel this about. I'm crap at building friendships before the pandemic. I want all the social stuff to be direct, explicit. If you don't want to talk to me then say so, otherwise it's a gray area and I don't want to be annoying but I can't read you.
For me it helps to realize I'm operating from a mindset of limitation instead of abundance. So what if these people are not interested in hanging out with me. I'll take my energy to a different connection that feels better. I'll occasionally reach out to that person again, but if they don't make any effort then they aren't interested for whatever reason. Maybe it is me, who knows, but I don't want to make an effort with someone that doesn't see my value anyway. My issue is more "should I take this personally or not" and how to tell for sure what is happening with that.
posted by crunchy potato at 11:14 AM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
For me it helps to realize I'm operating from a mindset of limitation instead of abundance. So what if these people are not interested in hanging out with me. I'll take my energy to a different connection that feels better. I'll occasionally reach out to that person again, but if they don't make any effort then they aren't interested for whatever reason. Maybe it is me, who knows, but I don't want to make an effort with someone that doesn't see my value anyway. My issue is more "should I take this personally or not" and how to tell for sure what is happening with that.
posted by crunchy potato at 11:14 AM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Also I would note that your emotional response kind of suggests that they're all like, super close and in touch all the time with EACH OTHER and just not with you?
This is mixed in there, for me at least. "Oh- I see you had time to post 5 running comments in Jane's FB thread but I get crickets? What gives?"
"Oh- you livestreamed That Show together cuz Emma posted about it but I guess no one wanted to invite me even though I love That Show too!" Ugh. Spirals for days. It's depleting. It hurts in the midst of a hurtful time. I have to force myself to stop reading, and then go do something meaningful to shake it off.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 1:51 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is mixed in there, for me at least. "Oh- I see you had time to post 5 running comments in Jane's FB thread but I get crickets? What gives?"
"Oh- you livestreamed That Show together cuz Emma posted about it but I guess no one wanted to invite me even though I love That Show too!" Ugh. Spirals for days. It's depleting. It hurts in the midst of a hurtful time. I have to force myself to stop reading, and then go do something meaningful to shake it off.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 1:51 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can't quite tell if you are already doing this from what you wrote, but if you're not: I think you might have more success reaching out to people one at a time in a low-key way. If you're sending group texts there might be a sort of bystander effect where no one specifically feels obligated to answer.
posted by ferret branca at 3:23 PM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by ferret branca at 3:23 PM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'll start with this: I'm a lot like your friends, in that while I'll respond to texts, it's not a form of interaction I favour with new people because it places a spotlight on my boringness which isn't good for maintaining friendships. They won't notice it when they're doing activity partner stuff with me, but they will after they begin to see an unavoidable pattern in my responses to "hey, what's up" texts, which is made worse by them not being able to low-key engage in my life because I don't do social media.
Texting people tends to have a different vibe in terms of bids for attention than FB groups or Instagram does and I don't think that's something that you can ignore here. What you're looking for tends to go heavy on self-disclosure, whereas the folks who are involved in group social media are probably connecting more through shared attention to something else that isn't each other.
The reality is that going text-heavy often places a lot of emphasis on sharing stuff about yourself which, in pandemic times, sometimes leads to asking for more emotional labour than a new (or even established) friendship can easily bear. I'm in your situation myself, and I'm pretty hesitant to text newish people because not having fun new stuff to share is awkward. Like, there's only so much fodder we have before things can begin to become therapy-ish, which isn't great. If people have a lot on their plates that they aren't in a position to open up to you about without seeming like That Lady With Problems, they're not going to want to text or call you and have to figure out how to take the spotlight off their personal dumpster fire. They might, however, be very happy to comment on one of your posts or really appreciate the memes you post in your group WhatsApp. If you go back to the last sentence of my first paragraph, that's another barrier you might be running into during the pandemic, when the group doesn't have a regular opportunity to engage in your life in-person.
Look, your choice to not use social media is completely legit; no one is saying it isn't. Heck, I'm not a social media user so there's that. But like any choice one makes in how they organize their lives, it comes with tradeoffs that you're presumably accepting in making that choice. If you are only willing to invest in the kinds of friendships that can survive on texting, then you're not only choosing to decrease your potential friendship pool but you're also opting into a specific kind of dynamic that might not work with these people. You're also, as many comments said previously, creating additional challenges for your friends to stay in touch with you by not using their preferred platforms.
I don't want to be too harsh here, but you might need to accept that it's not only difficult (or impossible) to make different forms of engagement replace each other, as well as be honest and realistic about the tradeoffs of your choices as they relate to other people.
posted by blerghamot at 6:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Texting people tends to have a different vibe in terms of bids for attention than FB groups or Instagram does and I don't think that's something that you can ignore here. What you're looking for tends to go heavy on self-disclosure, whereas the folks who are involved in group social media are probably connecting more through shared attention to something else that isn't each other.
The reality is that going text-heavy often places a lot of emphasis on sharing stuff about yourself which, in pandemic times, sometimes leads to asking for more emotional labour than a new (or even established) friendship can easily bear. I'm in your situation myself, and I'm pretty hesitant to text newish people because not having fun new stuff to share is awkward. Like, there's only so much fodder we have before things can begin to become therapy-ish, which isn't great. If people have a lot on their plates that they aren't in a position to open up to you about without seeming like That Lady With Problems, they're not going to want to text or call you and have to figure out how to take the spotlight off their personal dumpster fire. They might, however, be very happy to comment on one of your posts or really appreciate the memes you post in your group WhatsApp. If you go back to the last sentence of my first paragraph, that's another barrier you might be running into during the pandemic, when the group doesn't have a regular opportunity to engage in your life in-person.
Look, your choice to not use social media is completely legit; no one is saying it isn't. Heck, I'm not a social media user so there's that. But like any choice one makes in how they organize their lives, it comes with tradeoffs that you're presumably accepting in making that choice. If you are only willing to invest in the kinds of friendships that can survive on texting, then you're not only choosing to decrease your potential friendship pool but you're also opting into a specific kind of dynamic that might not work with these people. You're also, as many comments said previously, creating additional challenges for your friends to stay in touch with you by not using their preferred platforms.
I don't want to be too harsh here, but you might need to accept that it's not only difficult (or impossible) to make different forms of engagement replace each other, as well as be honest and realistic about the tradeoffs of your choices as they relate to other people.
posted by blerghamot at 6:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Feeling hurt and mad and everything else you’re feeling is totally understandable; however, as someone who often Just Can’t Do Replies to texts, I’m so grateful to the friends who don’t take that personally, and who just try again some other time when I’m slow or absent. One thing that I love is an open ended text that needs no reply (and somehow therefore is much easier to reply to): a picture or tweet or meme that reminded them of me. Note: this is not the same as wanting me to read a whole news article or watch a video, which feels like a burden no matter how well intended. Give me something I can take in in a moment or two, and I am far more likely to be able to start the conversation, myself.
posted by Edna Million at 11:56 PM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Edna Million at 11:56 PM on November 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
They're probably just depressed / anxious / overwhelmed and not texting anyone back and then they feel guilty about that and it goes for too long and they don't know what to do.
Every now and then, just text those people random funny memes or cute animal pics out of the blue. If they feel better and are up for conversing again, that's an opener for them to text you back and reopen communications.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:34 AM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Every now and then, just text those people random funny memes or cute animal pics out of the blue. If they feel better and are up for conversing again, that's an opener for them to text you back and reopen communications.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:34 AM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Had this happen to me with one person. It can still bum me out -- like, every time I think of it, for months (though fortunately I've only thought of it a few times in those months). But I started doing better with it when I realized this person was a lot busier than I was. Had a lot more friends. More kids than I have, including a newborn. Might still have a commute, where I don't right now. I don't ever fail to respond to a text, but I might get texts from three (legitimate) people a day, tops. I realized my friend/'friend' -- who did sometimes write me back -- might mean to write me back every time, but by the time they were free to, they had a bunch of people to write back, and didn't end up writing everyone. Not every single day. Or maybe they didn't like me/want to hang with me as much as I did them; that'd make sense too, since they were one of only a few friends I have, where they had hundreds. Or maybe they just didn't find not responding 'no' or whatever every time to be as big a sin as it felt to me.
On one level, it is what it is: people not responding. They do it enough times, you can be forgiven for drawing whatever conclusion seems logical. But you can also reasonably conclude something else, if you want to. I find I'm happier in these situations when I'm able to come from a place of not knowing.
The responses you got mentioning Facebook are worth considering. You also mentioned that you don't want to do in-person; I couldn't blame you less, but you say they all prefer it, so now that's two ways you're unable/unwilling to meet them on their terms. Maybe they react to your declining in-person meet-ups in a way that sounds very familiar to you.
If you want to connect with friends from a group, maybe try calling one or two, see whether that's a more satisfying interaction. If you want to control the behavior of a group of people who are all different from each other and you, during a pandemic, I wish you luck, and ask you to let me know how you did it, if you somehow succeed.
posted by troywestfield at 12:44 PM on November 24, 2020
On one level, it is what it is: people not responding. They do it enough times, you can be forgiven for drawing whatever conclusion seems logical. But you can also reasonably conclude something else, if you want to. I find I'm happier in these situations when I'm able to come from a place of not knowing.
The responses you got mentioning Facebook are worth considering. You also mentioned that you don't want to do in-person; I couldn't blame you less, but you say they all prefer it, so now that's two ways you're unable/unwilling to meet them on their terms. Maybe they react to your declining in-person meet-ups in a way that sounds very familiar to you.
If you want to connect with friends from a group, maybe try calling one or two, see whether that's a more satisfying interaction. If you want to control the behavior of a group of people who are all different from each other and you, during a pandemic, I wish you luck, and ask you to let me know how you did it, if you somehow succeed.
posted by troywestfield at 12:44 PM on November 24, 2020
I’ve been a slow or non responder for quite a while now, due to being overwhelmed. Just as anecdata, this has NOTHING to do with me not liking someone. If only telepathy were a thing, as I find myself responding to people in my head a lot; just taking the extra step of typing things up takes more spoons than I have. No, it doesn’t make sense even to myself, but there it is.
posted by meijusa at 12:59 PM on November 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by meijusa at 12:59 PM on November 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
I wanted a group check-in text
So, ongoing group texts are a thing I've read about in articles, but I think I only know one person who has ever mentioned being involved with one themselves. I don't think they are actually all that common.
this bunch does do Facebook except I don't (I don't feel safe there)
Maybe there is some way you can feel safe there? Like making an account with a fake name and letting people know it's you? Some people use a photo that only their friends would associate with them.
A lot of people have so much less bandwidth for socializing these days, and with texting there's often a pressure to say something that the recipient will find interesting or at least vaguely relevant - recently I texted someone (who coincidentally doesn't really use facebook) with an article I thought they would be really interested in, and they texted me back to say "What do you want? I'm busy" -- and maybe YOU aren't like that about texts but people get discouraged about crafting individual texts to send out. Personally I'm finding questions like "How are you doing?" and "What have you been up to recently?" to be kind of hard to answer, and I'm not getting divorced or caring for small kids or anything like that.
Facebook is a place I can post a picture of some random thing I saw like a bird or a sunset or a yard decoration, and people can like it or comment on it if they want, and I know no one is going to say "why the hell did you text me a picture of a bird".
I also strongly think I'm going to lose these friends since the friends I have had that stuck around (a) have been in my life for a few years before and (b) tend to be more online/communicative. This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online
It seems like they are online, just not in the same places you are online. Maybe you should look for friends that use the sites you use?
posted by yohko at 4:14 PM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
So, ongoing group texts are a thing I've read about in articles, but I think I only know one person who has ever mentioned being involved with one themselves. I don't think they are actually all that common.
this bunch does do Facebook except I don't (I don't feel safe there)
Maybe there is some way you can feel safe there? Like making an account with a fake name and letting people know it's you? Some people use a photo that only their friends would associate with them.
A lot of people have so much less bandwidth for socializing these days, and with texting there's often a pressure to say something that the recipient will find interesting or at least vaguely relevant - recently I texted someone (who coincidentally doesn't really use facebook) with an article I thought they would be really interested in, and they texted me back to say "What do you want? I'm busy" -- and maybe YOU aren't like that about texts but people get discouraged about crafting individual texts to send out. Personally I'm finding questions like "How are you doing?" and "What have you been up to recently?" to be kind of hard to answer, and I'm not getting divorced or caring for small kids or anything like that.
Facebook is a place I can post a picture of some random thing I saw like a bird or a sunset or a yard decoration, and people can like it or comment on it if they want, and I know no one is going to say "why the hell did you text me a picture of a bird".
I also strongly think I'm going to lose these friends since the friends I have had that stuck around (a) have been in my life for a few years before and (b) tend to be more online/communicative. This group seems highly likely to be lost since they're of short duration and not that online
It seems like they are online, just not in the same places you are online. Maybe you should look for friends that use the sites you use?
posted by yohko at 4:14 PM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
A lot of people here are going to basically tell you that your expectations of these people/friendship in general are too high and you need to accept this is the way these people are and to give them grace and consider their perspective and that it’s not personal if you don’t hear from these people you care about for 4 months in a row. This is all fine and probably even true. But it doesn’t solve the issue of you feeling rejected and having an unmet need for connection and reciprocity. I’m sure these people have a lot of very legitimate things going on. That doesn’t stop you from having the emotional needs you do in the way you do. I’m someone who really resonates with the feelings in your post and never really found the advice to “just accept it and work on being less needy” helpful. It doesn’t really matter if the way you feel is deemed “reasonable” by other people; it’s the way you feel and where you’re at.
You can’t control relationships with other people. If they’re not responding, they’re not responding. You’ve done all you can from where you’re sitting. I wouldn’t push at it anymore because it will make you feel worse. The only thing you can do is 1) seek out others who are more like you and form connections. I’ve found actually Instagram great for this because a lot of accounts are organized around specific themes (book recommendations! I love New York! 9300 pictures of cats!) and now have people I will likely never meet irl who I keep in touch with on there. 2) something that keeps me from spiraling is that whenever I have thoughts about how so and so’s disappointed me and let me down and doesn’t care about me enough, I do something I know I will like. I work on Christmas cards. Or call my mom. Or go out and buy an iced coffee. Or read a book. It has taken literally years of intentionally retraining my brain to
not dwell in ruminative cycles, but it’s helped me so much. So much.
Finally, I would just let these people go for a while. Give yourself the gift of a week or two where you don’t think about them. Do they like you and value you as a friend? Probably. But they’re not at a place where they can give you what you need and this is actively hurting you. You sound like someone who prioritizes others; give yourself the same kindness for a bit. I’m thinking of you.
posted by thatsaskatchewangirl at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
You can’t control relationships with other people. If they’re not responding, they’re not responding. You’ve done all you can from where you’re sitting. I wouldn’t push at it anymore because it will make you feel worse. The only thing you can do is 1) seek out others who are more like you and form connections. I’ve found actually Instagram great for this because a lot of accounts are organized around specific themes (book recommendations! I love New York! 9300 pictures of cats!) and now have people I will likely never meet irl who I keep in touch with on there. 2) something that keeps me from spiraling is that whenever I have thoughts about how so and so’s disappointed me and let me down and doesn’t care about me enough, I do something I know I will like. I work on Christmas cards. Or call my mom. Or go out and buy an iced coffee. Or read a book. It has taken literally years of intentionally retraining my brain to
not dwell in ruminative cycles, but it’s helped me so much. So much.
Finally, I would just let these people go for a while. Give yourself the gift of a week or two where you don’t think about them. Do they like you and value you as a friend? Probably. But they’re not at a place where they can give you what you need and this is actively hurting you. You sound like someone who prioritizes others; give yourself the same kindness for a bit. I’m thinking of you.
posted by thatsaskatchewangirl at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
You do sound “needy,” which is to say, you have needs that aren’t being met. You need social connection right now, or you’re worried about having it post-pandemic. The reality is it does sound like these particular friends can’t give it to you right now, any who knows why— they’re busy, they have other friends, they ARE disinterested, etc. It’s hard to say but seems crazy making to worry that they’re over you when you don’t really have any way to know that right now.
Can you get your social needs met in a different way?
posted by stoneandstar at 9:57 PM on December 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Can you get your social needs met in a different way?
posted by stoneandstar at 9:57 PM on December 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by saturdaymornings at 6:59 PM on November 22, 2020 [5 favorites]