concentric tree rings of supportive humans

November 9, 2020 1:15 PM

How different is living five hours from close family compared to living within 30-90min? Future single parent edition.

Any guidance, advice, anecdata, etc. much appreciated!

I'm 31. I've been working on my plan to adopt as a single queer parent since 2016. Since the time of posting, I have some real clarity around some things:

* My career situation and outlook is much more stable, and I've raised my income to just under six figures
* I've confirmed that I am indeed very strongly motivated to raising children as a single parent - I'm still ever-so-slightly open to dating and a romantic partner, but would like to proceed without any expectation of co-parenting.
* I did end up learning about trauma-informed parenting and have spent more time with children in a diversity of life stages and situations. I have a more realistic set of expectations around foster adoption and for myself. I'm interested in open adoption as a default, and still interested in school-age children (ideally one or a sibling pair in elementary school) and definitely open to kids with disabilities and (if relevant) trans and queer kids ofc. I'm curious about open adoption models that involve infants, but don't have strong baby/infant/toddler-specific feelings (5-9 is a sweet spot for me!)
* I've improved some of those Adulting Skills around budgets and food. Not that I'm 100% done... but 75-80%, sure!

Financially, I still have a little ways to go, but I'm aiming for getting the process started within another 2-3 years or so. Ideally I would be able to buy a home before adopting OR have equivalent finances (eg can pay down payment and still have healthy savings and money budgeted for kids, but may choose not to purchase for financial/life reasons).

My main area of uncertainty, and the heart of this question, is my family and community situation. I have a number of very close friends who live around the east coast, and am only just getting started here in Philly but am fortunate to have a couple of beloved close folks so far (I've lived here for just over a year). I'm liking Philly a lot and see some routes towards a real stable long-term community here (I've gotten into mutual support and neighborhood relationships this year, and early starts in Quaker community stuff too. Just early seeds of possibility, inseparable from this wild-ass year.)

Meanwhile, I have a great relationship with my mom, sister, and brother (+ brother's family). They are all very solidly established in the Boston and Portsmouth areas. It's been impossible to visit in 2020 for COVID-19 reasons, and I miss them a lot and especially miss the chances to deepen my relationship with my nephews at my brother's. I'm lucky in that my mom is truly like a close friend and our relationship is very healthy and supportive - my siblings and I drift in and out of sync as we get wound into our lives but we also have very warm and positive relationships, and I think we'd have a lot of fun if we could low-stakes hang out more easily. My mom is really encouraging of me becoming a parent, and while she doesn't want to become like a live-in full-time caretaker (nor would I want that!) I think she'd be an extremely positive influence on future kid(s) -- plus she's in her mid-60s and while hopefully she has at least a couple solid decades left, her health has had some sudden dips lately. Our long-term plan if it works out is that she can move into me within the next 5-10 years if it's the best option for all, and honestly I would love to have an intergenerational household like that for kiddos, as someone who moved far away from my grandparents as a 7 year old and missed out on that sense of rootedness and stability that my older siblings benefited from more. I think if I raised kids in Philly, my mom would be eager to visit periodically, and we could have a really fun quarterly visit schedule going, but it would be a pretty different situation across the board.

This is all to say: I feel like I have a really healthy substrate of family to grow on if I'm a single parent in the New England area. I'm trying to get better at being settled and building ties, after moving every couple of years for school and jobs, and I think my main issue now is that I can see a lot of my core boxes checked off where I am in Philly. If I moved, it would really be a "tear the bandaid" thing, and ideally I'd like to find some of the same things I love about Philly ("scrappy city" vibes, being part of a city neighborhood, Quaker communities, friends from other places want to visit me, parks and hikes and bikes, queer community, walkable + transit) in another place. Potential matches for me near Boston include Providence, Portsmouth, Portland, ME (on the far side of grandma commute at 2 hours), Pioneer Valley, or (if I can afford it) Boston or Camberville, although that strikes me as a taller order financially. Also kind of curious about Salem and the North Shore.

So I guess the heart of my question is: when does it make sense to radically prioritize proximity to family? What realistically are some of the key differences at different levels of proximity (in my question, I'm looking at 30 min, 90 min to 2 hrs, and five hours)? Do you have any specific advice from the single parent side? Thank you!!

posted by elephantsvanish to Human Relations (20 answers total)

The further the distance away, the less casual visits become.

At 30 minutes, grandparents stop by for dinner, to help with babysitting, and to just hang out.

At 5 hours, grandparents need to fly or really commit to driving that far. To "make the trip worth it" they basically live with you for 3-14 days straight.

In my experience, for younger children, having that proximity really helps when you need a lot of help with day-to-day things. But, for older children, having a longer, more intentional time together can really help with building relationships and spending quality time together.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:27 PM on November 9, 2020 [16 favorites]

My parents live a 4-5 hour drive away. Prior to covid my mom was committed to visiting one weekend per month. Then my dad got sick on top of covid restrictions means we've seen them twice in a year for long weekends.
posted by muddgirl at 1:33 PM on November 9, 2020

My in-laws live 75 minutes away. When our first child was born, grandma made regular trips to babysit. Now during COVID we can easily visit them for an afternoon gathering on their patio.

Previously they lived about 4 hours away. We could go visit them for the weekend, which we did 4 or 5 times per year. But it's completely different in terms of access. You can't do a day trip. They can't come take care of the kids for the afternoon if there's an emergency. They can't come to see school plays. They are still within driving distance, but it's a real trip, not something you can just slot in on a free afternoon or weekend day.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 1:39 PM on November 9, 2020 [5 favorites]

I would also mention that financial stability of family members becomes a bigger part when they live further away. They need the reliable car plus gas money, perhaps a hotel since you can’t do day trips, can’t just bring over an extra meal or drop off a birthday present (have to pay shipping instead).

Health issues also affect ability to visit as they might not be able to easily sit for long periods of time etc.

I’ll also add in that as the youngest child who lived rather far from aunts/uncles/grandparents I felt very left out of family events. As the kids got older it was hard to visit for random weekends when they got filled with sports activities and birthday parties. Other family members have all these memories of when people used to gather and get together but that wasn’t really part of my consciousness.

I know you’re intentionally fostering community, and you’ll figure things out but often (not always!) friends are not willing to leave/skip work so that they can take care of a sick kid for the day like a family member would.
posted by raccoon409 at 1:49 PM on November 9, 2020 [6 favorites]

My parents live 5 hours away. In the good times, that meant seeing them maybe 4 times a year. When my in-laws lived 2 hour away, we'd go see them every other weekend or so. 30 minutes could mean practically every day.

Friends are great, but during active parenthood, having a supportive family is irreplaceable.
posted by rikschell at 2:10 PM on November 9, 2020 [3 favorites]

We've had family at both distances and here's my learning to share:

- I agree 100% with the comment above that the longer stays make for different bonding opportunities. My MIL was always great at coming regularly (about 6 times a year) and also even coming down for emergencies (she had a job with sick time, and financial means to travel.) (Now she lives with us.)

- If you would be the one to travel, even with a 8 or 9 year old, 5 hours in the car, especially in winter, is quite different from 1. And once they have soccer/gymnastics/dance/their own first jobs, it can be hard to do longer trips frequently - many of our free weekends vanished once my son committed to pottery class and volunteering. Again, these are just choices but it's something I hadn't thought of -- that my kids would have their own weekend agendas.

- We now live as an intergenerational household and it is really, really great.

- As a single parent, whether it comes from family or family of the heart or plain old cash, you will probably need some on-the-ground backup - for when you both get pink eye and you can't drive, for those days when you really really need someone to drop by for 2 hours so you can make an essential meeting and your child has a fever, or when you get stuck in a snowstorm/car accident and someone has to pick your kid up for you...you get the idea.

The person you put on your child's school/camp/afterschool daycare pick up forms.

This really can be friends, but they need to be within striking distance of your child's school, basically. So if you are going to rely on family, closeness makes a big difference. I have a partner, and we also had a group of friends who filled this gap for us at times.

- With both my parents and my MIL, we also had emergencies going the other way. Since I have a partner, one of us could get in the car and go. But as a single parent you'd have to throw the kid in the car and go. So shorter might be better for that too.

- All that said, I fell in love with Philly as a tourist last year and loving where you live is also a huge deal. All the issues you can fix with family can be fixed in other ways.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:10 PM on November 9, 2020

My siblings/cousins and their partners established themselves at about a 3-4 hour radius from family with the intent of having driveable visits but no impromptu pop-ins. Now that they have kids, there's COVID, and all of the parents involved are increasingly in ill-health, I think they all agree that that was a luxury of a bygone time. Some have in fact already moved to be nearer to their parents; others are considering bringing the parents to them.

Now, in theory, COVID isn't forever. In theory. But it has definitely highlighted for all of them the degree to which child-rearing is a team sport and the degree to which having family nearby (when your family is a healthy, safe collection of people) is different from a community of friends and like-minded folks. Even those of us who don't have kids or partners have begun to think it might be wise to start concentrating ourselves geographically.

The world's extremely hard, and it's only going to get harder. If you already have a group of people who has your back? Stick close to 'em.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:14 PM on November 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

To add to the great information others have already added--and that I agree with--I'd add a bit of a longer view. A 90 minute trip each way isn't an impediment at all for some time, but after several years it's enough to begin to erode the frequency of the voyage. After something like two or three years of making the 120-180 minute round trip between my house and my kids' bio-mom's house... oof. You're not going to want to socialize, have dinner, or really do anything but pick up and drop off after a couple dozens repeats of a trip that takes that much time. It's now a good six years since I last had to drive that route, and I hope to never see it again haha. That kind of distance comes to feel oppressively present, like a silent but demanding passenger in the car. When we moved 3560 miles away, that car trip was replaced by planes and trains. Much more planning was required, and little-to-no spontaneity had room to fit in anymore, but the relative ease of that kind of travel was a blessing.

On the upside, my kids grew up as excellent travelers who know how to pack light and quickly, how to manage airports and train stations, and seem to enjoy the practice.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:21 PM on November 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

My brother lives an hour away; my parents are 5 hours away. We've also got a toddler. In the Before Times, we saw my brother once a month or so usually for day trips; my parents, every other month or every three months or so for a long weekend. It really makes a difference- my parents are talking about moving closer.

(Also, for scrappy, queer towns- you might want to add Somersworth and Rochester NH to your list. Somersworth is nicknamed the Rainbow City because of all the stuff going on there; Rochester just elected a trans woman to the city council last year. They are both decidedly more up and coming/ scrappier than say Portsmouth or Portland. DM me if you want more details! )
posted by damayanti at 2:30 PM on November 9, 2020

Both sets of parents and in-laws and brother-in-laws are within walking distance, maybe 5-15 minutes by car. It's good. During the pre-pandemic times, my mother-in-law would pick up my son from school once a week. My father-in-law will walk to local ice-cream place to meet him some weekends. Once when I had to take my wife to the ER, my parents came over within 15 minutes to take care of my son, etc., who would often spend weekend nights at either of their houses so we could go out.
Now, during the pandemic, we still see them, not as much, but it's good to know I could be at either of their houses at the drp of a hat.
posted by signal at 2:31 PM on November 9, 2020

My daughter might as well be a single parent - long, unhappy story - and I live about a half hour from her. I recently was called at 3:00 pm for an emergency preschool pick-up because she had a flat tire as she left to get him. She had two other young kids at home. They'd need 2 car seats in an uber, dad not answering his cell, school irritated at late pick-up. I got the kid about 40 minutes later. His mom employs a part-time nanny who usually transports the child, but she was not available that day. So if you choose to parent at a distance that would preclude this kind of timely aid, have a back up plan, and an emergency back up for when your usual back up is sick, has a dental emergency, a flat tire, etc.

Hopefully your employer has a generous new-parent leave policy, and a sick policy that allows you to access it when a child is ill. I've worked with employers with and without enlightened sick policies, and with is definitely better. I hated having to lie when a child was sick, but I've done it. I've also shared the responsibility with my husband so neither of us had prolonged absences from work. A child with a prolonged illness or recovery can really snarl your work responsibilities.

And welcome to Philly, glad you like it!
posted by citygirl at 3:21 PM on November 9, 2020

My parent live 1300 miles away; my kids see them once a year. My wife grew up in a house like 13 minutes from here; we used to haul the kids there for dinner once a week and they came by frequently.

But living with my parents for a week or even two weeks is very different from dinners and visits and cookouts: they form different connections. (Sadly, not as strong)

Having in-laws a short drive away was a life saver a few times, and just easier quite often: they could pick someone up once in a while or whatever.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:48 PM on November 9, 2020

Oh my god 100% move to Boston. I myself am moving to Boston this winter for the sole reason that my husband’s family is there and we need help with our kid. My mother lives 4 hours away and we saw her at least once a month before the pandemic but she wasn’t a big help for reasons. Anyway if your mother wants to help you I would not hesitate one bit to move. It’s so hard man. So hard.
posted by tatiana wishbone at 3:48 PM on November 9, 2020

From the fostering side - adoption from the foster system is often a long drawn out process (our local agency advises that for numerous reasons you should never expected an adoption to go through), and there might be travel restrictions on how far away you can go with a child in foster care which could severely limit how you could visit family out of town. This might not impact you since you talk about your mom visiting rather than the other way around, but I'd encourage you to understand any implications of long-distance family while fostering.

Congrats on "expecting", one way or another :)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 4:31 PM on November 9, 2020 [6 favorites]

I raised three kids as a single mother most of the time with pretty much no help from family, no family anywhere nearby, and no family I would have wanted to move closer to. The community I raised them in (Ithaca, NY) made up for that in multiple ways.

My kids all ended up moving back to that community after college and other adventures and have partners who also grew up there. My five grandkids love spending time with their cousins even though there is a wide age spread, from 19 to 2. One household has a grandfather two doors away who is always available when they need him. Another family is a short way down a dirt road from the other grandma. One daughter-in-law served as a doula for another's 2 births. And they all have those wonderful relationships with friends they've known all their lives, the parents of those friends, my old friends, their former teachers.

Considering that your family lives in an area where you will likely find community I think you should move closer and have the best of both for your future family. Family within a 20 minute drive would be great.
posted by mareli at 5:12 PM on November 9, 2020

Response by poster: These answers are so insightful, and full of perspectives I hadn't quite considered yet. Thank you!!

From the fostering side - adoption from the foster system is often a long drawn out process (our local agency advises that for numerous reasons you should never expected an adoption to go through), and there might be travel restrictions on how far away you can go with a child in foster care which could severely limit how you could visit family out of town

I had absolutely 100% not considered this element to things, whoa. Thank you! Hopefully there's more reciprocity between New England states, but that's a big "hopefully" I'll have to fill in with more research, hm.

Quick follow-up question: from a family distance perspective, how "far" do you imagine Providence specifically would seem from Boston? I've lived in PVD for a couple years as a kid and went back and forth on train and car a lot. It never felt too too far, but I know for adults that car commute can feel... extra intimidating. This would put the longest commute in the immediate family from Providence to Porstmouth (brother's fam).
posted by elephantsvanish at 6:25 PM on November 9, 2020

Rhode Islanders consider it a Big Trip but honestly it's under an hour unless you're heading to the north shore.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:09 PM on November 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

Going through/around Boston in traffic (as one does going from Providence to Portsmouth) makes weekday visits inconvenient to the point of being impossible. My family is all on the North Shore (with beloved extended family in NH and Maine) and I’ve lived in various Boston neighborhoods and suburbs over the years and being on the same side of Boston makes a huge difference in how often I see them. I saw my family more when I lived in the Pioneer Valley than when I lived in Brookline (which is not even south of Boston, it’s right in the middle!).

I would definitely look into Salem if I were you - it’s small, of course, but it definitely has some of what you’re looking for. I only have a handful of friends who live in Salem but you sound like you would get along pretty well with them.
posted by mskyle at 3:06 AM on November 10, 2020

Distance between Boston and Providence is highly dependent on traffic and train schedules. It can be very quick, but it can probably take a couple of hours, too. I know people who have lived in one city and worked in the other and they made it work, primarily by relying on trains that ran on regular schedules. But they were happy when they were able to give it up and live & work all in the same city.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 3:11 PM on November 10, 2020 [1 favorite]

I'll, though, that Boston<>Providence is about the same distance as it is to my current in-laws, so in theory that's close enough for babysitting, last-minute visits, etc. and it's certainly close enough for frequent day trips.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 3:13 PM on November 10, 2020 [1 favorite]