Low latency, economical wifi extension via ethernet
October 24, 2020 1:07 PM Subscribe
The wifi in our home doesn't reach my son's bedroom reliably. This is unfortunate, given that he needs to attend high school via zoom 5 days per week. Our wireless router is located centrally in our unfinished attic. I would like to add a second wifi router that is in the attic but closer to my son's bedroom. It will be easy to connect the two with an ethernet cable.
I currently have an TP-Link AC1750 Smart WiFi Router (Archer A7) and am generally happy with it. When I look for "wifi extenders" or "wifi boosters" I find things that run ethernet-over-AC-outlets (seems like a kluge), or that rebroadcast the wifi signal (seems like poor latency).
In my ideal scenario, we would add another device that expands the same existing wifi networks, rather than creating new networks with different names, and that has low latency and high throughput.
We could also have the device create new networks, as long as latency is low and throughput is high.
What am I looking for here?
I currently have an TP-Link AC1750 Smart WiFi Router (Archer A7) and am generally happy with it. When I look for "wifi extenders" or "wifi boosters" I find things that run ethernet-over-AC-outlets (seems like a kluge), or that rebroadcast the wifi signal (seems like poor latency).
In my ideal scenario, we would add another device that expands the same existing wifi networks, rather than creating new networks with different names, and that has low latency and high throughput.
We could also have the device create new networks, as long as latency is low and throughput is high.
What am I looking for here?
I've got ethernet over powerline in the house and it works great.
posted by COD at 2:35 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by COD at 2:35 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Yep, "wireless access point" or another router operating in "access point mode" connected by cat5 to the main router is what you are looking for.
Have this set up in my house where the router is at one end of the basement where the service comes in, and then an access point upstairs at the other end. It shouldn't affect functionality at all, but I did get the same brand of access point as the router.
I have the same router as you and this access point. Works well, but doesn't have 5ghz connection if you need it. It also can be powered using the ethernet cable (PoE) if you don't have an outlet near where you want to put it.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Have this set up in my house where the router is at one end of the basement where the service comes in, and then an access point upstairs at the other end. It shouldn't affect functionality at all, but I did get the same brand of access point as the router.
I have the same router as you and this access point. Works well, but doesn't have 5ghz connection if you need it. It also can be powered using the ethernet cable (PoE) if you don't have an outlet near where you want to put it.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you have a router in the attic where you want it, and you are fine with running ethernet cable over to a second device to put where you want it? A Wireless/WiFi Access Point (WAP) is what you want for this, as you don't need any of the routing or switch capabilities of an all-in-one wifi router. I believe most WAPs can be configured to work seamlessly with an existing wireless network, though I haven't set one up so I can't say for sure. Configuring a separate network should always work though, even if it's slightly less convenient to manage.
Also, keep in mind that the more walls/ceilings there are between your devices and the wireless antennae, the lower quality signal you'll get. If your existing device is in the unfinished attic, you might want to try drilling a hole in the attic floor and mounting it to the ceiling in a top floor room instead. Same goes for the WAP.
If you don't have an outlet near where you want to put the WAP, you can look into getting an access point that supports Power over Ethernet (PoE), and then use a Power over Ethernet Injector in between your router and the WAP.
posted by Aleyn at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also, keep in mind that the more walls/ceilings there are between your devices and the wireless antennae, the lower quality signal you'll get. If your existing device is in the unfinished attic, you might want to try drilling a hole in the attic floor and mounting it to the ceiling in a top floor room instead. Same goes for the WAP.
If you don't have an outlet near where you want to put the WAP, you can look into getting an access point that supports Power over Ethernet (PoE), and then use a Power over Ethernet Injector in between your router and the WAP.
posted by Aleyn at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
This may not be what you want to hear, but if you are frequently doing video calls, you will have a much better and more reliable experience with wired internet (ethernet cable) than even the most reliable wifi. You said you can run an ethernet cable to the extender: why not run a cable to your son's computer?
posted by richb at 3:23 PM on October 24, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by richb at 3:23 PM on October 24, 2020 [11 favorites]
While not aesthetically pleasing, a 50-100ft ethernet cord down the hallway works very well. And isnt that pricey.
posted by TheAdamist at 4:15 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by TheAdamist at 4:15 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
The reason why you see so many range extenders is that extending a network without a wired Ethernet connection is tough and people will pay $$$ for something that solves that problem well. Luckily, you have an easy problem that's a subset of the general range extension problem. Essentially any router will do what you want, though I might consider getting the same one as you have now because they will probably play a bit nicer together and there's no reason to get two different brands. In particular, it looks like all you'll have to do is follow the instructions in the manual and check a box in ADVANCED > Advanced Setup > Wireless AP.
I would recommend keeping both routers with the same network name and "auto" channel. They'll figure it out eventually. Routers and WiFi devices are, generally, good at managing interference. The latency isn't as bad as you might think; I have an Apple Airport Extreme, which is about the same age, and I'm getting 4 ms to my router upstairs, versus 20ms to the AT&T DSLAM. In general, latency is in the provider's Internet routing, not your house. Sure, if you want to shave a few milliseconds, you'd want a cable.
posted by wnissen at 4:19 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would recommend keeping both routers with the same network name and "auto" channel. They'll figure it out eventually. Routers and WiFi devices are, generally, good at managing interference. The latency isn't as bad as you might think; I have an Apple Airport Extreme, which is about the same age, and I'm getting 4 ms to my router upstairs, versus 20ms to the AT&T DSLAM. In general, latency is in the provider's Internet routing, not your house. Sure, if you want to shave a few milliseconds, you'd want a cable.
posted by wnissen at 4:19 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Most computers these days (esp. for the kids) are WiFi only and don't have an ethernet jack. You want the AP and probably the POE. Set it up the same as your current WiFi and probably let it detect a free channel. Then you get roaming (depending on how lame your devices are).
Your router has a WAN in port which means you have ethernet coming in. It has nearby power. On the inside it goes WAN up to the Router bit and then back down and branches into two internal paths, one goes to the WiFi, the other goes to those 4 ethernet ports. The WiFi is just a layer 1 media adapter sort of thing going from basically the internal wired ethernet to an internal AP. Plugging in another AP to the ethernet jacks is the same thing. Using a WiFi extender is a repeater. But... it's sorta false thinking that a repeater that does WiFi-in to WiFi-out and vice-versa is any lower latency/bandwith than going from ethernet to WiFi. The same thing is happening execept the AP also has the additional media conversion step. Not a big deal because it's done it anyways. Any difference in latency/bandwidth between the two solutions will pale in comparison to the delays and bandwidth constraints that happen outside your home as your data makes its way back and forth to the other end of the connection. Don't overthink it. As long as you don't plug in another full router-with-AP and do double router stuff and make things all crazy you'll be fine.
I can't see how the dumb POE AP plugged into router or using a WiFi repeater is any different from what we did bringing wireless to an entire university campus. Either should work just fine if you set it up right and the equipment isn't junk to start with.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:21 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Your router has a WAN in port which means you have ethernet coming in. It has nearby power. On the inside it goes WAN up to the Router bit and then back down and branches into two internal paths, one goes to the WiFi, the other goes to those 4 ethernet ports. The WiFi is just a layer 1 media adapter sort of thing going from basically the internal wired ethernet to an internal AP. Plugging in another AP to the ethernet jacks is the same thing. Using a WiFi extender is a repeater. But... it's sorta false thinking that a repeater that does WiFi-in to WiFi-out and vice-versa is any lower latency/bandwith than going from ethernet to WiFi. The same thing is happening execept the AP also has the additional media conversion step. Not a big deal because it's done it anyways. Any difference in latency/bandwidth between the two solutions will pale in comparison to the delays and bandwidth constraints that happen outside your home as your data makes its way back and forth to the other end of the connection. Don't overthink it. As long as you don't plug in another full router-with-AP and do double router stuff and make things all crazy you'll be fine.
I can't see how the dumb POE AP plugged into router or using a WiFi repeater is any different from what we did bringing wireless to an entire university campus. Either should work just fine if you set it up right and the equipment isn't junk to start with.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:21 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lacking preview, no reason for a second router when the bare AP will do. You pay for a full router that you're going to turn off almost everything that it can do just for the ethernet to WiFi bit. Easier to just get the device that only does the ethernet to WiFi bit. Keeps you from messing things up too much. (or well, you could double up an have a spare if your main router goes boom).
posted by zengargoyle at 4:26 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 4:26 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
https://www.tp-link.com/us/onemesh/product-list/
It looks like TP-Link has products that can mesh with this, and have built in gigabit ethernet.
posted by nickggully at 4:45 PM on October 24, 2020
It looks like TP-Link has products that can mesh with this, and have built in gigabit ethernet.
posted by nickggully at 4:45 PM on October 24, 2020
Nthing the suggestion for wired Ethernet directly to the computer for the best bang-for-buck, if you can swing it. A permanent installation with the cable put into the wall with an Ethernet jack at one end will cost more and be harder to DIY, but poking a cable down through a hole in the ceiling works just as well. If the computer doesn't have an Ethernet port, a cheap USB Ethernet adapter will do.
posted by Aleyn at 5:50 PM on October 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Aleyn at 5:50 PM on October 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yes. You are looking for an access point (assuming you don't want to go the hard-wired route). The real "gold standard" for these for home use are the Ubiquiti Access Points, which are the sort of "prosumer" option. They're not the cheapest, but I bought one back in March to enable me to work from home and it's been super-fast and really stable. The UAP-AC-LITE model is about $90 and would be a good addition to your network. (I have the "Pro" version, which is $50 more expensive and probably not worth the extra cost).
Note that these are super configurable and, as a result, are a little more involved to set up than a standard "plug and play" piece of network equipment, but there are good instructions that are pretty easy to follow.
posted by Betelgeuse at 6:53 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Note that these are super configurable and, as a result, are a little more involved to set up than a standard "plug and play" piece of network equipment, but there are good instructions that are pretty easy to follow.
posted by Betelgeuse at 6:53 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have both the Archer A7 and the RE220 extender (on the link that nickggully provided). It works reasonably well and setup was really pretty easy via the web frontends they both have; I don't use the TP-Link app but that probably would have made it somewhat easier even. You basically make sure their OneMesh thing is enabled on the router, feed the extender your network details, and that's about it.
My use case was more for "it has an Ethernet port" and not extending my WiFi range as much, though it does work pretty well for both use cases. However, that plus a cheapie USB 3 Ethernet dongle if the computer itself doesn't have an Ethernet port would be pretty solid. (As far as USB 3 Ethernet dongles go, I have a couple things like this, except mine are also 3-port USB 3 hubs too; they also work pretty well and are supported by most everything.) Of course, if you get it close enough to said room and the wireless signal works well, you wouldn't need the hardwire connection into the extender, but you'd at least have the option. I was able to pretty well hammer the wireless connection on it via the things I'd plugged in via Ethernet, at least as far as wireless can go with this equipment.
posted by mrg at 6:56 PM on October 24, 2020
My use case was more for "it has an Ethernet port" and not extending my WiFi range as much, though it does work pretty well for both use cases. However, that plus a cheapie USB 3 Ethernet dongle if the computer itself doesn't have an Ethernet port would be pretty solid. (As far as USB 3 Ethernet dongles go, I have a couple things like this, except mine are also 3-port USB 3 hubs too; they also work pretty well and are supported by most everything.) Of course, if you get it close enough to said room and the wireless signal works well, you wouldn't need the hardwire connection into the extender, but you'd at least have the option. I was able to pretty well hammer the wireless connection on it via the things I'd plugged in via Ethernet, at least as far as wireless can go with this equipment.
posted by mrg at 6:56 PM on October 24, 2020
Is there a reason why your device is in the attic? The model you have radiates up and out, if it’s located on a shelf or table. Putting it in the attic, you’re probably losing 20-40% of your signal. Look at what the radiation pattern is. You may be able to relocate the router and solve your problems.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2020
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2020
Response by poster: Geckwoistmeinauto, where can I see the radiation pattern?
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:46 AM on October 25, 2020
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:46 AM on October 25, 2020
I think Gecko might be referring to the cartoon house in the Amazon ad, with a blue dome over the unit. The thinking being that it has a 'bottom', with antennas pointing 'up'. So putting it in the attic is giving the top of your roof great signal, the room below it not so much. If you were just trying to get a few more feet of signal, you could try simply flipping the unit over, so that it's 'pointing down'.
~shrug~ Stranger things have worked in the past?
Cheap, foolproof: long-ass wire down the hallway
Worth a try?: Power Line Networking adapter. Depends on how 'noisy' and/or segregated your home wiring circuits are. But there have been cases where after several expensive other solutions failed, powerline worked so simply that we kicked ourselves for not trying it sooner.
Middle: compatible aftermarket 'range extender' or WAP. A new thing to turn on and off again when the WiFi's gone weird.
Pricey: replace it all with a new mesh-networking setup (a preconfigured kit of router and several extenders, designed for whole-house coverage in situations like yours)
posted by bartleby at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2020
~shrug~ Stranger things have worked in the past?
Cheap, foolproof: long-ass wire down the hallway
Worth a try?: Power Line Networking adapter. Depends on how 'noisy' and/or segregated your home wiring circuits are. But there have been cases where after several expensive other solutions failed, powerline worked so simply that we kicked ourselves for not trying it sooner.
Middle: compatible aftermarket 'range extender' or WAP. A new thing to turn on and off again when the WiFi's gone weird.
Pricey: replace it all with a new mesh-networking setup (a preconfigured kit of router and several extenders, designed for whole-house coverage in situations like yours)
posted by bartleby at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2020
I have several Ethernet-over-power adapters in our house. I use them primarily to connect the televisions in order to save the WiFi bandwidth for the true wireless devices. I have also used the to connect WiFi access points to the main router. They have worked very well for us. Be aware that the outlets used need to on the same fuse box in order for them to work.
posted by tman99 at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2020
posted by tman99 at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2020
For what it's worth, I have been in my house for 2 years, and I have not had to manually restart the tp-link router and access point I mention above ever. There have been a couple power outages, but nothing like the weekly reboots I remember.
Actually, I think getting the access point helped that a lot.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:31 PM on October 25, 2020
Actually, I think getting the access point helped that a lot.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:31 PM on October 25, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. I've ordered the access point suggested by ArgentCorvid. If that works, it's the simplest and quickest solution. If it doesn't, I'll look at some of the alternatives like ethernet over power line, or potentially snaking Cat-5 from the attic to his room.
I'll report back.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 1:46 PM on October 26, 2020
I'll report back.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 1:46 PM on October 26, 2020
poking a cable down through a hole in the ceiling
If it's feasible, the tidiest way is to do this inside a closet.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:47 PM on October 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
If it's feasible, the tidiest way is to do this inside a closet.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:47 PM on October 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
I just accomplished this same thing with a (much) more expensive option of the eero system. It wasn't cheap, but it was by far the easiest technical thing I've ever done, and we now have a strong signal across our entire property. Before, due to the walls of our 90-year old home, the signal would not propagate through more than a single room.
Wish it wasn't expensive, but since I didn't really know what I was doing I wanted something quick and easy.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:58 AM on October 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Wish it wasn't expensive, but since I didn't really know what I was doing I wanted something quick and easy.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:58 AM on October 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: The TP-Link access point works. The instructions that came with it were confusing, but the support video for setting up an access point did the trick. My son still prefers wired ethernet, now that he's tasted it, so we might try to get cables snaked to do that.
Also, after going through some tested I realized it was much simpler and easy to manage this setup if the access point had a different name. That way I know what I'm using and what I'm debugging, and it doesn't actually add any complication.
Thanks all for helping me get through this.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:00 AM on October 29, 2020
Also, after going through some tested I realized it was much simpler and easy to manage this setup if the access point had a different name. That way I know what I'm using and what I'm debugging, and it doesn't actually add any complication.
Thanks all for helping me get through this.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:00 AM on October 29, 2020
another tip that I forgot about until just now is to have the 5GHz and 2.4GHz (on the main router) set to different names (mine are "SSID" and "SSID-5ghz", i have my 2.4GHz-only AP set to "SSID" as well), as some devices will preferentially pick the 5GHz signal even if its signal strength is worse because there are more channels and therefore less interference from other access points. However, the 5GHz signal does not go through buildings as easily as the 2.4. If you separate them, then you can force devices to use the 2.4GHz signal if they have issues with the 5GHz one.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:45 AM on October 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:45 AM on October 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you get a full router, when you go through the setup process, it will by default set up its own network. You change that to your current network's name and password. You'll probably want to set a different channel than the existing network (how to choose) and most importantly disable the DHCP service.
DHCP service assigns IP addresses to units that connect to the network. Right now you already have a DHCP server running elsewhere-- in your existing wifi router or maybe your internet 'modem'. Doesn't matter which-- what does matter is that you only have one running on your network, so they don't issue conflicting sets of addresses, or addresses that can't talk to each other.
The setup process may already have a kind of wizard that lets you select "Access Point" mode, which will take care of the above steps to some degree.
posted by Sunburnt at 1:43 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]