Can I eat this plate of beans?
October 18, 2020 11:04 AM Subscribe
I cooked some black beans last weekend and froze them. Yesterday, I let them thaw in a ziplock bag on the counter all day. I moved them to the fridge when I realized they'd been at room temp for "awhile" (maybe around 6 pm?). They've been in the fridge overnight. No bad smell, taste fine. Can I boil them in a soup and eat them?
I wouldn't. Black beans are cheap.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:54 AM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 11:54 AM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
Be aware that if there are any toxins in the beans due to sitting out, boiling them won't make them "safe." Boiling may kill the things in the beans that created the toxins, but won't kill the toxins they've created. You can boil them from now until forever, and those toxins will still remain.
Personally, I wouldn't eat them if they had come up to room temperature and sat at that temperature for more than an hour before going back in the fridge, but I spent years in restaurant kitchens and can be picky about stuff like this.
posted by ralan at 11:57 AM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
Personally, I wouldn't eat them if they had come up to room temperature and sat at that temperature for more than an hour before going back in the fridge, but I spent years in restaurant kitchens and can be picky about stuff like this.
posted by ralan at 11:57 AM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I would.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:59 AM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:59 AM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
I probably would, but I am pretty cavalier about food safety.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Be aware that if there are any toxins in the beans due to sitting out, boiling them won't make them "safe." Boiling may kill the things in the beans that created the toxins, but won't kill the toxins they've created. You can boil them from now until forever, and those toxins will still remain.
To the best of my knowledge, this is not correct. Boiling will denature the likely suspects (botulism toxin, for example, not that this is a particular concern in this scenario). The main "danger" here is spoilage, meaning that it tastes terrible but isn't dangerous.
posted by slkinsey at 12:42 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
To the best of my knowledge, this is not correct. Boiling will denature the likely suspects (botulism toxin, for example, not that this is a particular concern in this scenario). The main "danger" here is spoilage, meaning that it tastes terrible but isn't dangerous.
posted by slkinsey at 12:42 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Fully cooked plant-based food at room temperature for an hour, no problem, I would eat as long as it didn't include any meat or meat-based stock in the pot when cooked originally. Hell, we leave bread out at room temp all the time.
posted by mareli at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'd eat it, but then I used to frequent deli hot bars in the before-times. How long do beans and rice stay out and gently warmed in deli hot bars? I don't know, but they never seemed to do me any harm.
posted by BungaDunga at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2020
posted by BungaDunga at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2020
Be aware that if there are any toxins in the beans due to sitting out, boiling them won't make them "safe." Boiling may kill the things in the beans that created the toxins, but won't kill the toxins they've created. You can boil them from now until forever, and those toxins will still remain.
To the best of my knowledge, this is not correct. Boiling will denature the likely suspects (botulism toxin, for example, not that this is a particular concern in this scenario). The main "danger" here is spoilage, meaning that it tastes terrible but isn't dangerous.
In all my food safety classes we learned it exactly as I explained it. Once something is bad, it's bad, and no amount of heating or cooking changes that.
posted by ralan at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2020 [6 favorites]
To the best of my knowledge, this is not correct. Boiling will denature the likely suspects (botulism toxin, for example, not that this is a particular concern in this scenario). The main "danger" here is spoilage, meaning that it tastes terrible but isn't dangerous.
In all my food safety classes we learned it exactly as I explained it. Once something is bad, it's bad, and no amount of heating or cooking changes that.
posted by ralan at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2020 [6 favorites]
as long as it didn't include any meat
Yeah, this is the distinguisher for me. Bits of ham in there? I probably wouldn't eat it. Bits of chicken? Definitely not.
But just beans, maybe with onions and spices? I'd eat those.
This is my personal opinion only, not that of a food-safety-ologist.
posted by gimonca at 1:21 PM on October 18, 2020
Yeah, this is the distinguisher for me. Bits of ham in there? I probably wouldn't eat it. Bits of chicken? Definitely not.
But just beans, maybe with onions and spices? I'd eat those.
This is my personal opinion only, not that of a food-safety-ologist.
posted by gimonca at 1:21 PM on October 18, 2020
Serv safe would say no. That's bc they have an obligation to everyone, irrespective of their health status, bc it can't be known.
If you personally are generally in good health and you're only deciding for you, it's probably fine.
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2020
If you personally are generally in good health and you're only deciding for you, it's probably fine.
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2020
Hi, you're on metafilter and you're literally overthinking a plate of beans.
Eat them.
posted by automatronic at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2020 [10 favorites]
Eat them.
posted by automatronic at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2020 [10 favorites]
In all my food safety classes we learned it exactly as I explained it. Once something is bad, it's bad, and no amount of heating or cooking changes that.
This is a valuable viewpoint to teach for a food service environment (i.e., take no chances and throw it away), but that doesn’t make it actually correct.
posted by slkinsey at 2:46 PM on October 18, 2020
This is a valuable viewpoint to teach for a food service environment (i.e., take no chances and throw it away), but that doesn’t make it actually correct.
posted by slkinsey at 2:46 PM on October 18, 2020
While botulism spores can be denatured by boiling long enough*, other toxins like bacillus spores cannot. Accepting lower food safety standards outside of a foodservice environment is one reason why foodborne illness is much more likely to occur at home. The risk of a given scenario may be low on it's own, but the lifetime risk of experiencing a very serious illness is much higher when not following proper food handling procedures.
* assuming your water doesn't boil below 212 at your altitude, and the heat penetrates all the way through the food, and the heat is applied for a long enough time, etc.
posted by mikek at 3:21 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
* assuming your water doesn't boil below 212 at your altitude, and the heat penetrates all the way through the food, and the heat is applied for a long enough time, etc.
posted by mikek at 3:21 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is time for a gut call, by which I mean find the balance between your desire to not waste (cheap, easily remade) food, your desire to eat delicious beans, and your desire to avoid tummy music and an uncomfortable series of toilet sessions, which is the likely outcome of bad beans, if they are indeed bad.
If the beans were in a zip-sealed bag, no new bacteria were introduced on the counter, so whatever survived the freezer is what was left. Much of that day they were frozen, so bacteria was inert for the morning.
I would eat them.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2020
If the beans were in a zip-sealed bag, no new bacteria were introduced on the counter, so whatever survived the freezer is what was left. Much of that day they were frozen, so bacteria was inert for the morning.
I would eat them.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2020
Food doesn't generally turn to poison in a few hours one the counter, in a sealed package, from frozen.
I'm not sure why smart educated modern people think food turns to poison so often and easily but I bet it would make a good research topic.
I would and have eaten that without hesitation.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:09 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure why smart educated modern people think food turns to poison so often and easily but I bet it would make a good research topic.
I would and have eaten that without hesitation.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:09 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
While botulism spores can be denatured by boiling long enough*, other toxins like bacillus spores cannot.
Bacterial spores are not toxins, they’re bacterial spores. The likelihood of dangerous levels of bacterial spores forming in an unopened bag of cooked black beans that had maybe thawed sufficiently to be in the danger zone a few hours past the recommended four hour window is vanishingly small. Meanwhile, active bacteria and toxins will be denatured by boiling ten minutes or more. While there are good reasons they’re written the way they are, the USDA safety guidelines are extremely conservative. So, yeah, there is a minute chance that some small number of bacterial spores survived the initial cooking, reactivated during the short period when the beans were at a hospitable temperature and then during that time also multiplied to infectious levels and/or produced dangerous levels of toxins. However, all the active bacteria would be killed and the toxins denatured by ten minutes or more of boiling.
posted by slkinsey at 5:19 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Bacterial spores are not toxins, they’re bacterial spores. The likelihood of dangerous levels of bacterial spores forming in an unopened bag of cooked black beans that had maybe thawed sufficiently to be in the danger zone a few hours past the recommended four hour window is vanishingly small. Meanwhile, active bacteria and toxins will be denatured by boiling ten minutes or more. While there are good reasons they’re written the way they are, the USDA safety guidelines are extremely conservative. So, yeah, there is a minute chance that some small number of bacterial spores survived the initial cooking, reactivated during the short period when the beans were at a hospitable temperature and then during that time also multiplied to infectious levels and/or produced dangerous levels of toxins. However, all the active bacteria would be killed and the toxins denatured by ten minutes or more of boiling.
posted by slkinsey at 5:19 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would consider eating them, but only if I didn't have plans to be going anywhere for the next day, just in case it turned out to be a bad decision and caused gastric outrage. This assumes, as others have said, that these are just beans, not beans cooked with meat.
That all said, a can of beans is what, around 99 cents usually? So there is a cost/benefit ratio here, where you are taking a small risk of a horrible outcome against saving a very small amount of money.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on October 19, 2020
That all said, a can of beans is what, around 99 cents usually? So there is a cost/benefit ratio here, where you are taking a small risk of a horrible outcome against saving a very small amount of money.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on October 19, 2020
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posted by essexjan at 11:49 AM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]