Apartment Rejection for No Reason
September 17, 2020 12:41 PM Subscribe
Apartment complex shutting down communication for asking too many questions?
A nice apartment complex with 70+ units with high reviews is suddenly telling me they don't have what I'm looking for and "better luck searching elsewhere" 2 months in advance to when I'm wanting to move in, which doesn't make sense to me for any reason other than I've probably asked more questions about details they consider a hassle (cabinet handles, bathroom light fixtures) and I'm trying to rent remotely, so I asked for a video-walk through and some more photos. I haven't as-of-yet filled out an application, so there's been no credit or background check, and their rental agent isn't known to me, so there's no personal history with anyone on the property.
I'm sorry if I've asked too many questions, I don't require that they are all answered, but I still really want to rent from this property (very pretty property and good price and generally good ratings online). I don't have reason to believe I'm being discriminated against for "protected class" reasons, I feel they probably think I'm not worth their time since it would probably take more work to do a video walk through, etc.
I called the company that owns this property and talked to a someone there who seemed helpful, then called the property, then called back and they said they have no problems with the conversation being shut-down except for reason pertaining to the Fair Housing Act. This is baffling to me.
What should I do?
A nice apartment complex with 70+ units with high reviews is suddenly telling me they don't have what I'm looking for and "better luck searching elsewhere" 2 months in advance to when I'm wanting to move in, which doesn't make sense to me for any reason other than I've probably asked more questions about details they consider a hassle (cabinet handles, bathroom light fixtures) and I'm trying to rent remotely, so I asked for a video-walk through and some more photos. I haven't as-of-yet filled out an application, so there's been no credit or background check, and their rental agent isn't known to me, so there's no personal history with anyone on the property.
I'm sorry if I've asked too many questions, I don't require that they are all answered, but I still really want to rent from this property (very pretty property and good price and generally good ratings online). I don't have reason to believe I'm being discriminated against for "protected class" reasons, I feel they probably think I'm not worth their time since it would probably take more work to do a video walk through, etc.
I called the company that owns this property and talked to a someone there who seemed helpful, then called the property, then called back and they said they have no problems with the conversation being shut-down except for reason pertaining to the Fair Housing Act. This is baffling to me.
What should I do?
What should I do?
Find a different place to rent from.
The place is not obligated to talk with you, answer your questions, take any videos or pictures for you, or really, do pretty much anything for you. There is a point at which the time they spend trying to get you to rent with them costs more than you offer in profit for them. Most places work on a pretty tight budget - rental properties are, in general, not especially profitable outside property appreciation. Asking for two tours - beyond anything else you're asking for - is already more than most places are willing to do for an applicant.
I've probably asked more questions about details they consider a hassle (cabinet handles, bathroom light fixtures)
If I were them, I wouldn't be happy figuring out what sort of fixtures are in an apartment for an applicant. Heck, I don't know if they would even know what the fixtures were (they were likely chosen by a construction firm from some bargain basement supplier). I'd be worried an applicant that is that detail-oriented would be apt to complain about very small details in the future, which further reduces the profit from that person.
posted by saeculorum at 12:48 PM on September 17, 2020 [59 favorites]
Find a different place to rent from.
The place is not obligated to talk with you, answer your questions, take any videos or pictures for you, or really, do pretty much anything for you. There is a point at which the time they spend trying to get you to rent with them costs more than you offer in profit for them. Most places work on a pretty tight budget - rental properties are, in general, not especially profitable outside property appreciation. Asking for two tours - beyond anything else you're asking for - is already more than most places are willing to do for an applicant.
I've probably asked more questions about details they consider a hassle (cabinet handles, bathroom light fixtures)
If I were them, I wouldn't be happy figuring out what sort of fixtures are in an apartment for an applicant. Heck, I don't know if they would even know what the fixtures were (they were likely chosen by a construction firm from some bargain basement supplier). I'd be worried an applicant that is that detail-oriented would be apt to complain about very small details in the future, which further reduces the profit from that person.
posted by saeculorum at 12:48 PM on September 17, 2020 [59 favorites]
Landlord here, and I agree with saeculorum. If I had a potential tenant asking a lot of questions about small details of a place I would likely assume that they'd be a high-maintenence tenant and pass them over for someone less persnickety.
posted by mezzanayne at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by mezzanayne at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2020 [12 favorites]
Echoing saeculorum's point but from the opposite direction, if the property managers are this unwilling to answer questions and provide information you want/need in making a decision to rent from them, this is also a red flag that they are unlikely to be very responsive to any needs you might have as a tenant. From the kinds of questions you're asking, you probably want and expect more from a landlord / property manager than this company is actually prepared to provide. I don't think your expectations are unreasonable, but it sounds like this company may not be a good match for you. They may be saving you from an expensive and stressful mistake by refusing to rent to you, and you can keep searching and find a landlord or rental company that is more prepared to be responsive to its future (and therefore maybe current) tenants.
There are a lot of crappy landlords out there. Your search strategy is probably pretty good for filtering out some of them, even if that's not what you necessarily intended.
posted by biogeo at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2020 [17 favorites]
There are a lot of crappy landlords out there. Your search strategy is probably pretty good for filtering out some of them, even if that's not what you necessarily intended.
posted by biogeo at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2020 [17 favorites]
If they don't have a vacant unit, they wouldn't be able to give you a video walk through (or other walk through.) If they do have a vacancy, it's unlikely they want to wait 2 months to rent it out.
posted by vespabelle at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by vespabelle at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
Rental markets are weird and landlords honestly rarely know more than 30 days in advance if/how many vacant units will be available. They might have received notice from a few tenants, but landlords don't know until after move out how much work needs to be done to "turn over" the home. Painting, replacing cabinets, updating lighting, refinishing a wood floor, replacing tile or carpet. These things each take time, but also often require scheduling outside workers. Many property owners like to have more than one unit worked on at a time. For larger properties, there may always be some sort of emergency getting in the way of routine turnover maintenance.
If they have a unit available right now, they are hoping extremely hard that it will not be available in a week, much less two months.
For 70 units, they may have all started with the same style of handles, but over time, there could be as many os 40 different styles that end up in them. For example, tenants might change things out from standard and not put the old ones back, which would lead to a future tenant saying "I want the ones like you had in the pictures/video tour of the comparable apartment." Not only do they not want to spend the time for a potential future rental, they definitely do not want a potentially hassle of a tenant.
Tenants who are looking more than a month out are usually looking at lots of places, which means the odds of them picking any particular place are lower. The management team has a lot on their hands with current tenants who are paying, they aren't looking to borrow trouble for a maybe.
posted by bilabial at 1:11 PM on September 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
If they have a unit available right now, they are hoping extremely hard that it will not be available in a week, much less two months.
For 70 units, they may have all started with the same style of handles, but over time, there could be as many os 40 different styles that end up in them. For example, tenants might change things out from standard and not put the old ones back, which would lead to a future tenant saying "I want the ones like you had in the pictures/video tour of the comparable apartment." Not only do they not want to spend the time for a potential future rental, they definitely do not want a potentially hassle of a tenant.
Tenants who are looking more than a month out are usually looking at lots of places, which means the odds of them picking any particular place are lower. The management team has a lot on their hands with current tenants who are paying, they aren't looking to borrow trouble for a maybe.
posted by bilabial at 1:11 PM on September 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Your expectations are calibrated wrong, sorry.
Details like cabinet handles, etc are the sort of thing you get to see on a walk through, if at all (in an apartment complex, sometimes a walkthrough is actually of a different unit and the details may be different.) It's not information that anyone in the office even has written down to look up. (And that's in addition to the excellent point made above that a video walk through of a specific unit is unlikely unless that precise unit is vacant.)
The unwillingness to respond to this level of demands when you aren't even a tenant yet doesn't make them crappy landlords, and expecting that level of service from a landlord or rental company is not going to set you up for success. Landlords - "even" good, responsible ones - don't want to deal with high maintenance tenants who make unreasonable demands.
Forget about this place, and in the next place you investigate, confine your inquiries to the mission critical ones.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:18 PM on September 17, 2020 [24 favorites]
Details like cabinet handles, etc are the sort of thing you get to see on a walk through, if at all (in an apartment complex, sometimes a walkthrough is actually of a different unit and the details may be different.) It's not information that anyone in the office even has written down to look up. (And that's in addition to the excellent point made above that a video walk through of a specific unit is unlikely unless that precise unit is vacant.)
The unwillingness to respond to this level of demands when you aren't even a tenant yet doesn't make them crappy landlords, and expecting that level of service from a landlord or rental company is not going to set you up for success. Landlords - "even" good, responsible ones - don't want to deal with high maintenance tenants who make unreasonable demands.
Forget about this place, and in the next place you investigate, confine your inquiries to the mission critical ones.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:18 PM on September 17, 2020 [24 favorites]
Best answer: You might want to work with a realtor instead. Many of them also help people find rentals, and they can filter out the detail oriented stuff that will make landlords uninterested in working with you. It sounds like you may not have much experience finding a rental so there's many reasons working with a professional might serve you well. Places will often take you more seriously this way also.
posted by crunchy potato at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by crunchy potato at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
Best answer: You can't make them rent to you, and it doesn't sound like you would have had a satisfactory relationship with them anyway.
I would observe that you have not been "rejected" for the apartment, you hadn't applied yet and aren't being invited to. They're just blowing you off, pointedly, with the "good luck elsewhere".
If you want to take your chances and you have a family member willing to be the point person, you could probably have them go in as the go-between for "my cousin who's moving to town" or whatever, and obtaining the information you want and doing a video walkthrough of A unit but probably not THE unit because that's not generally how apartments work, doubly so during COVID. Probably your name is not officially on a list, though someone may remember you when your application is finally filled out, and you will encounter the same dead end.
You're just asking for a ton of extra labor from staff in a way that signals high unrealistic expectations, and you are likely dealing with people who are being very poorly paid compared to corporate stakeholders somewhere, and these people have to deal with the tenants they place on the property. You may find it hard to find a place anywhere if you're going to lead with cabinet handles and the expectation that a unit sits empty waiting for you two months from now. You're dealing with employees who likely get in trouble and lose whatever minimal bonus they might make for every day a unit sits empty. You gotta make friends with these people, in anticipation of the day you truly urgently need a favor from them.
The advice to use a realtor is a good one; it won't get you everything you want but they may have some extra knowledge about the place that will help you feel better. Bonus: most realtors consider the listed rent a personal challenge, will negotiate it down for you, and then get paid for it by the landlord.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:30 PM on September 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
I would observe that you have not been "rejected" for the apartment, you hadn't applied yet and aren't being invited to. They're just blowing you off, pointedly, with the "good luck elsewhere".
If you want to take your chances and you have a family member willing to be the point person, you could probably have them go in as the go-between for "my cousin who's moving to town" or whatever, and obtaining the information you want and doing a video walkthrough of A unit but probably not THE unit because that's not generally how apartments work, doubly so during COVID. Probably your name is not officially on a list, though someone may remember you when your application is finally filled out, and you will encounter the same dead end.
You're just asking for a ton of extra labor from staff in a way that signals high unrealistic expectations, and you are likely dealing with people who are being very poorly paid compared to corporate stakeholders somewhere, and these people have to deal with the tenants they place on the property. You may find it hard to find a place anywhere if you're going to lead with cabinet handles and the expectation that a unit sits empty waiting for you two months from now. You're dealing with employees who likely get in trouble and lose whatever minimal bonus they might make for every day a unit sits empty. You gotta make friends with these people, in anticipation of the day you truly urgently need a favor from them.
The advice to use a realtor is a good one; it won't get you everything you want but they may have some extra knowledge about the place that will help you feel better. Bonus: most realtors consider the listed rent a personal challenge, will negotiate it down for you, and then get paid for it by the landlord.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:30 PM on September 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
Best answer: This might not be salvageable. If you want to try to salvage it:
Apologize. Tell them that you are sorry for taking their time and that this was purely "nice-to-know" information. Tell them that you still want the apartment and that if accepted for an apartment you will sign for a move in date of X date at Y price (assuming that this statement is in fact true).
Submit an application. Be prepared that they may still reject you. However, submitting an application and paying an application fee shows that you are serious about the apartment and not just planning to waste their time.
posted by phoenixy at 1:54 PM on September 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Apologize. Tell them that you are sorry for taking their time and that this was purely "nice-to-know" information. Tell them that you still want the apartment and that if accepted for an apartment you will sign for a move in date of X date at Y price (assuming that this statement is in fact true).
Submit an application. Be prepared that they may still reject you. However, submitting an application and paying an application fee shows that you are serious about the apartment and not just planning to waste their time.
posted by phoenixy at 1:54 PM on September 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Just have one of your local family visit it and take pictures in your stead. I think that's really the easiest way through this, at least if they don't recognize your name on the lease (but you would have already not caused more trouble for them by that point).
posted by rhizome at 2:05 PM on September 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 2:05 PM on September 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Some brilliant suggestions here. Thank you so much!!!
posted by BeatriceB at 2:38 PM on September 17, 2020
posted by BeatriceB at 2:38 PM on September 17, 2020
Best answer: I honestly think you're probably better off anyway. I completely understand where you're coming from, and your questions/expectations are valid; like others had mentioned upthread, you may just not be a good match for the property. If you did move in, and problems came up, it's possible they would/couldn't be able to answer your questions to your full satisfaction.
It's hard because apartments tend to be cookie-cutter, and if you have particular needs (like I do!), it's hard when you think you've finally found the right property, only to have things not pan out with the staff there.
It's not about you at all. If you're truly determined, I'd maybe try a nice follow up, apologize simply for coming across as potentially too demanding (even though you and I know that wasn't your intention AT ALL), express interest, and go from there. People these days are on edge, 2020 has been tough on us all.
You got this :)
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 3:05 PM on September 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's hard because apartments tend to be cookie-cutter, and if you have particular needs (like I do!), it's hard when you think you've finally found the right property, only to have things not pan out with the staff there.
It's not about you at all. If you're truly determined, I'd maybe try a nice follow up, apologize simply for coming across as potentially too demanding (even though you and I know that wasn't your intention AT ALL), express interest, and go from there. People these days are on edge, 2020 has been tough on us all.
You got this :)
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 3:05 PM on September 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
You are about to spend (on average) a third to a half of your weekly income paying off somebody else's "investment property" as well as paying a commission to middlemen who do very little in the way of actual work. You are perfectly entitled to ask as many questions as you want about any aspect of the place you want to rent. If they are going to make a production of it, tell them to jam it up their ass and move along.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:26 PM on September 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:26 PM on September 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
FWIW I think the last time I was able to rent an apartment more than two months in advance of move-in was probably over a decade ago.
You're asking them to do more work than they want to do to gain your tenancy. There's no bad guys here, just a mismatch.
posted by sm1tten at 5:04 PM on September 17, 2020
You're asking them to do more work than they want to do to gain your tenancy. There's no bad guys here, just a mismatch.
posted by sm1tten at 5:04 PM on September 17, 2020
Response by poster: FYI - I'm not asking to reserve an apartment 2 months in advance. I was willing to pay now to get the apartment off of the market before I moved it, about a month in advance, but -- yes -- I'd have needed to let them do a virtual walk-through and then let a relative of mine see in-person.
But I greatly agree with the advice to hire a rental agent who can help me manage the relationship with the apartment complexes I've found....but it turns out they are quite hard to find in Kansas City.
posted by BeatriceB at 5:17 PM on September 17, 2020
But I greatly agree with the advice to hire a rental agent who can help me manage the relationship with the apartment complexes I've found....but it turns out they are quite hard to find in Kansas City.
posted by BeatriceB at 5:17 PM on September 17, 2020
Personally, I think all apartment tours should be virtual given the pandemic. At the very least, they should be willing to offer that option. Rather than asking questions about light fixtures, etc, over email, that would make sense to ask about as the person is virtually showing you around (or, if your family member will go later, ask them to check that out at that point.)
posted by pinochiette at 6:11 PM on September 17, 2020
posted by pinochiette at 6:11 PM on September 17, 2020
I had to rent a new place right in the middle of the pandemic (well, it's still the middle, but you know what I mean). The people I dealt with were responsive to questions and were completely willing to go and shoot video walk arounds for me (including one or two "hey, would you mind going back and getting me another picture of XYZ?") since at that point in-person visits were prohibited.
So, there is a certain level of responsiveness that they should be able to attain and if they can't, they aren't the right place for you to be giving them money. (Like others, I would find questions about cabinet fixtures odd, but presumably you have reasons.)
But at the same time, it is possible that you came across as excessively demanding or raised red flags to them as a potential tenant, and that's a legitimate business decision on their part.
If you are really serious about this one place, put in the application and follow the other steps that people above are suggesting. But, if they are just plain blowing you off or aren't responsive, cut your losses and find a place that actually wants your business and where you will be happier living.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:26 PM on September 17, 2020
So, there is a certain level of responsiveness that they should be able to attain and if they can't, they aren't the right place for you to be giving them money. (Like others, I would find questions about cabinet fixtures odd, but presumably you have reasons.)
But at the same time, it is possible that you came across as excessively demanding or raised red flags to them as a potential tenant, and that's a legitimate business decision on their part.
If you are really serious about this one place, put in the application and follow the other steps that people above are suggesting. But, if they are just plain blowing you off or aren't responsive, cut your losses and find a place that actually wants your business and where you will be happier living.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:26 PM on September 17, 2020
I was willing to pay now to get the apartment off of the market before I moved it, about a month in advance
As an FYI, some places will not agree to do this for insurance reasons. Empty apartments/houses can have things like water leaks that go unnoticed and cause a lot of damage and so many insurance policies will exclude units that aren't actively lived in. Larger, more corporate places may have strict rules about moving in within a certain time period that's less than a month.
posted by Candleman at 6:37 PM on September 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
As an FYI, some places will not agree to do this for insurance reasons. Empty apartments/houses can have things like water leaks that go unnoticed and cause a lot of damage and so many insurance policies will exclude units that aren't actively lived in. Larger, more corporate places may have strict rules about moving in within a certain time period that's less than a month.
posted by Candleman at 6:37 PM on September 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Get relatives to do your virtual walk through.
If you can't get enough detail in a short phonecall to want to risk your *relatives* time, then you would be wasting the rental agents time.
If you were there, you would be wasting your *own* time to go visit apartments that aren't quite right - it's just the way it goes.
If you wouldn't expect a virtual tour before you went to view an apartment in person, then it wouldn't be fair to expect a virtual tour before you send someone else in your stead?
If it's worth it to you, then pay your relatives for each apartment visit & virtual tour they do for you. Or find someone who you can pay to do these for you.
posted by Elysum at 1:57 AM on September 22, 2020
If you can't get enough detail in a short phonecall to want to risk your *relatives* time, then you would be wasting the rental agents time.
If you were there, you would be wasting your *own* time to go visit apartments that aren't quite right - it's just the way it goes.
If you wouldn't expect a virtual tour before you went to view an apartment in person, then it wouldn't be fair to expect a virtual tour before you send someone else in your stead?
If it's worth it to you, then pay your relatives for each apartment visit & virtual tour they do for you. Or find someone who you can pay to do these for you.
posted by Elysum at 1:57 AM on September 22, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BeatriceB at 12:42 PM on September 17, 2020