Unfucking Ratfucked Florida Voting Disenfranchisement with $$
September 13, 2020 7:53 PM Subscribe
Anywhere up to 85,000 voters have just been re-disenfranchised by a court-decision in state of Florida. What can be done to help unfuck this?
The article above in the NYT describes the situation. Non nyt link here
Is there any reason some billionaire or PAC couldn’t just pre-emptively pay all ex-felon fines in FL? Or hire a bunch of people to go down there and pay those fines. How could this work? Who could you lobby to do this? This org and this org are working on it, could billionaires just give them tons of $$?
What out-there, hail-mary strategies could actually unfuck this stuff to some extent before the election?
How could normal people throw their weight behind such an effort?
This kind of q was asked before but in a different context.
The article above in the NYT describes the situation. Non nyt link here
Is there any reason some billionaire or PAC couldn’t just pre-emptively pay all ex-felon fines in FL? Or hire a bunch of people to go down there and pay those fines. How could this work? Who could you lobby to do this? This org and this org are working on it, could billionaires just give them tons of $$?
What out-there, hail-mary strategies could actually unfuck this stuff to some extent before the election?
How could normal people throw their weight behind such an effort?
This kind of q was asked before but in a different context.
One reason is that even the courts don't know how much people owe. Some of these debts are sufficiently old that they're only recorded on papers that are in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. So each individual voter has to go down to the voting office and someone has to individually go back to where they keep the very old court records and try and find them.
And even if you think you've paid off all the fees, if someone finds one recorded on a slip of paper somewhere, you could be retroactively determined to have voted unlawfully.
It's pure Brazil. I don't think it can be fixed by sufficient application of money.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:33 PM on September 13, 2020 [7 favorites]
And even if you think you've paid off all the fees, if someone finds one recorded on a slip of paper somewhere, you could be retroactively determined to have voted unlawfully.
It's pure Brazil. I don't think it can be fixed by sufficient application of money.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:33 PM on September 13, 2020 [7 favorites]
There is, in fact, an organization raising money to pay those fines and fees. We Got The Vote - 4th Amendment Fees & Fines Project. This is part of the work being done by the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition - which is a grassroots organization run by the formerly convicted.
posted by brookeb at 10:28 PM on September 13, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by brookeb at 10:28 PM on September 13, 2020 [20 favorites]
There's a FL State Senator working with other pro bono lawyers to help get people registered to vote.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 PM on September 13, 2020
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 PM on September 13, 2020
Response by poster: brookeb: I linked to those 2 orgs in my question. they are not well funded alas compared to the scale of the task.
bungadunga/leslies
complete Brazil. I completely agree!
I think we should start a campaign to get Mike Bloomberg to not only pay these fines, but also to get infrastructure in place to do the legwork to make sure the payments stick, and to get some sort of info to voters that they can vote and that complete legal efforts have been made to pay their fines so they ain't in trouble.
the deadline for registration is oct 5!
posted by lalochezia at 4:32 AM on September 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
bungadunga/leslies
complete Brazil. I completely agree!
I think we should start a campaign to get Mike Bloomberg to not only pay these fines, but also to get infrastructure in place to do the legwork to make sure the payments stick, and to get some sort of info to voters that they can vote and that complete legal efforts have been made to pay their fines so they ain't in trouble.
the deadline for registration is oct 5!
posted by lalochezia at 4:32 AM on September 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I mean, can someone employed by a PAC go to a courthouse/repository and say "I want every fine that you have on all felons listed given to me, and I wish to pay them", then get a team of people to do just that with paperwork & all.
posted by lalochezia at 4:34 AM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 4:34 AM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
The remedy for a wrong decision of a Federal Circuit Court is a petition for a writ of certiorari to the U.S. Supreme Court. By design, it takes time for this to occur, unless an emergency exists. It will not happen in time for the November 2020 election.
If such a petition is filed, anyone who wishes may request leave to file an amicus brief. That is where monetary contributions can be most effective: supporting a group that has enough heft to file a brief and make arguments that will be seriously considered.
The idea of finding a willing billionaire within the next two weeks is, well, unrealistic.
posted by megatherium at 5:03 AM on September 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
If such a petition is filed, anyone who wishes may request leave to file an amicus brief. That is where monetary contributions can be most effective: supporting a group that has enough heft to file a brief and make arguments that will be seriously considered.
The idea of finding a willing billionaire within the next two weeks is, well, unrealistic.
posted by megatherium at 5:03 AM on September 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. OP, Ask Metafilter isn't for posing and then arguing a specific course of action or generally arguing with answerers; if you know what answers you want, you don't need to ask. Also if you say "is there any reason why X can't happen," you will definitely get feedback on that question. Going forward here, please just consider the advice or info that seems helpful to you and disregard the rest. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best options here are to support whatever organizations are trying to get this to the Supreme Court, or electing a Democratic governor and legislature in Florida to repeal the bill that created the poll tax in the first place.
Nothing can be done for 2020, but I would look to fund or work with organizations that support voting rights, register voters, etc.
posted by thenormshow at 6:27 AM on September 14, 2020
Nothing can be done for 2020, but I would look to fund or work with organizations that support voting rights, register voters, etc.
posted by thenormshow at 6:27 AM on September 14, 2020
Best answer: You've dismissed the exact group trying to do what you want. Yes, the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition is underfunded, but they are literally the best we have right now for paying off fines so people can vote. So far they've spent $4M restoring voting rights for 4000 people. They are led by Desmond Meade who has been the organizing face and lead for restoring felons right to vote in Florida for years. If you personally want to do something today, before the Oct 5 deadline, sending them money is the best thing you can do.
To answer your other questions... it's impossible to know who all has fines to pay, much less pay them off. Florida doesn't have a registry of everyone whose fines are outstanding. No one knows how many people are disenfranchised, although estimates are 1.4M people. Often even the former felon themself doesn't know if they owe money or not and finding out is hard. As the NYT says
If all this sounds undemocratic and unfair that's because that is the intent. The Florida law isn't about collecting fines; it's about making sure Black people don't vote. The ongoing legal work against the voting suppression is also important. The FRRC has been front and center doing this legal work. ACLU's voting rights arm has also been active and could use more money. I'm also excited about the work Marc Elias and Democracy Docket is doing filing lawsuits to preserve voting rights. But he's mostly been focussed this year on vote-by-mail machinery, I don't think he's been on the front lines of the Florida former felon issue.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on September 14, 2020 [14 favorites]
To answer your other questions... it's impossible to know who all has fines to pay, much less pay them off. Florida doesn't have a registry of everyone whose fines are outstanding. No one knows how many people are disenfranchised, although estimates are 1.4M people. Often even the former felon themself doesn't know if they owe money or not and finding out is hard. As the NYT says
Florida’s division of elections had received 85,000 voter registrations as of May from former felons who believed they had been re-enfranchised by Amendment 4. The division must screen those registrations to see whether the would-be voters had paid their financial obligations. Only then could any of them be removed from the voter rolls, the appeals court said.(The good news here is that the appeals court ruled that because these 85,000 felons weren't even screened yet, they could not be denied the right to vote now.)
If all this sounds undemocratic and unfair that's because that is the intent. The Florida law isn't about collecting fines; it's about making sure Black people don't vote. The ongoing legal work against the voting suppression is also important. The FRRC has been front and center doing this legal work. ACLU's voting rights arm has also been active and could use more money. I'm also excited about the work Marc Elias and Democracy Docket is doing filing lawsuits to preserve voting rights. But he's mostly been focussed this year on vote-by-mail machinery, I don't think he's been on the front lines of the Florida former felon issue.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on September 14, 2020 [14 favorites]
The actual problem is less the money than the possibility of some submarine late fee or other item that the prospective voter and all relevant authorities are currently unaware of leading to (yet another) the voter receiving yet another felony conviction for falsely swearing their eligibility as required by law. A law that was intentionally written as strict liability, meaning no intent need be proven.
Were it not for the extraordinary effort spent in packing the courts over the past few years, there is no way these appeals by the state would have succeeded. Elections have consequences, no matter how much people insist otherwise sometimes.
posted by wierdo at 2:11 PM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Were it not for the extraordinary effort spent in packing the courts over the past few years, there is no way these appeals by the state would have succeeded. Elections have consequences, no matter how much people insist otherwise sometimes.
posted by wierdo at 2:11 PM on September 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
The law firm where I work is donating hundreds of free hours to the project with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition. For each "felon" that has served his/her time, we have to manually review the court records line by line and count up the fines and fees outstanding. Donors have come forward to pay off these fines and fees, but there is not nearly enough dollars or manpower.
Having done dozens of these now, it is astonishing the amount of fines and court costs imposed for even the most minor of drug possession charges. There are few people caught in the system who can ever expect to pay off what the great state of Florida imposes. That in and of itself a crime.
Hopefully what my firm and others are doing will allow some of these people who want to vote to be able to do so.
posted by gingerjules at 7:36 PM on September 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Having done dozens of these now, it is astonishing the amount of fines and court costs imposed for even the most minor of drug possession charges. There are few people caught in the system who can ever expect to pay off what the great state of Florida imposes. That in and of itself a crime.
Hopefully what my firm and others are doing will allow some of these people who want to vote to be able to do so.
posted by gingerjules at 7:36 PM on September 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Relevant to this q:
Write a big old check, Mr. Bloomberg and help Florida’s ex-felons vote in November
posted by lalochezia at 6:34 AM on September 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Write a big old check, Mr. Bloomberg and help Florida’s ex-felons vote in November
posted by lalochezia at 6:34 AM on September 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: update #2
from NYT
It is not certain whether either party would benefit disproportionately from a restoration of voting rights, but one name sometimes invoked has been the billionaire Michael R. Bloomberg, who ran in this year’s Democratic presidential primary and has vowed to spend $100 million in Florida to help Mr. Biden win the state.
“We are looking at a variety of different ways to spend our money,” said Howard Wolfson, an executive with Bloomberg Philanthropies and an adviser to Mr. Bloomberg. “We are aware of this issue.”
posted by lalochezia at 6:23 AM on September 18, 2020
from NYT
It is not certain whether either party would benefit disproportionately from a restoration of voting rights, but one name sometimes invoked has been the billionaire Michael R. Bloomberg, who ran in this year’s Democratic presidential primary and has vowed to spend $100 million in Florida to help Mr. Biden win the state.
“We are looking at a variety of different ways to spend our money,” said Howard Wolfson, an executive with Bloomberg Philanthropies and an adviser to Mr. Bloomberg. “We are aware of this issue.”
posted by lalochezia at 6:23 AM on September 18, 2020
Bloomberg raises $16 million to help ex-felons in Florida vote.
posted by Nelson at 1:41 PM on September 22, 2020
Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and his political operation have raised more than $16 million from supporters and foundations over the last week to pay the court fines and fees for over 30,000 Black and Latino voters in Florida with felonies, allowing them to vote in the upcoming election.Longer, better story at the Washington Post.
The fundraising effort, according to multiple Bloomberg aides, will benefit the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, an organization run by formerly incarcerated people who are working to make it easier for ex-felons to vote.
posted by Nelson at 1:41 PM on September 22, 2020
Florida Republicans ask for investigation into Bloomberg felon voter fundraising. (The Republicans are arguing Bloomberg is buying votes. Shame they previously argued the law wasn't a poll tax, so the fines really had nothing direct to do with voting.)
posted by Nelson at 4:13 PM on September 23, 2020
posted by Nelson at 4:13 PM on September 23, 2020
I was looking through Jack Dorsey's list of philanthropic giving and happened to notice his most recent donation was $2.5M to the FRRC. Not sure but that might be part of the $16M Bloomberg raised.
posted by Nelson at 6:37 PM on September 25, 2020
posted by Nelson at 6:37 PM on September 25, 2020
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posted by leslies at 7:56 PM on September 13, 2020 [1 favorite]