Can I safely go outside?
September 8, 2020 12:20 AM   Subscribe

I have limited experience with thunderstorms. I am now living in a place with regular thunderstorms. This is also a place with very strict parking rules, and I will get a ticket unless I move my car tonight. I really want to not get a ticket, and I want to go to bed as it is now past 2 AM. However, it is thundering outside and there is sheet lightning. Can I go get my car?

The sky has been doing this since 10 PM, and shows no signs of stopping. It was raining steadily for a bit, but now the rain is off and on. The rain is quite heavy when it's on.

My car is probably .25 miles away from my current location, although I'm not 100% sure where it is. I am a fast walker.

This is a tree-lined residential neighborhood.

Can I move my car???

Bonus round: Can I move my trashcans? Yeah, I'm that person who waited until 10 PM to think, "I should take out the trash," and then it started raining, and now I'm unsure how dangerous it would be considered to spend extra time outside moving them.

(I'm sorry if these are laughably dumb questions in either direction. I honestly don't know if I'm dumb to be thinking of doing it, or dumb that I just keep sitting here while thunder growls in the distance.)
posted by desert outpost to Science & Nature (28 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
You are safer in the house (or inside the car) than you are outside; but objectively the risk is quite low, and I personally would do this walk without hesitation if it was for an important reason.

The basic rule of lightning storms is that you don't want to be the tallest thing in the area (or next to that thing). Try to avoid exceptionally tall trees, and definitely avoid being in large flat treeless areas like fields, meadows, or parking lots. (In fact, I probably would not do this walk if I had to cross a large empty field.)
posted by kickingtheground at 12:33 AM on September 8, 2020 [5 favorites]


There's a reason "like getting struck by lightning" is an expression for an extremely rare event. You'll be fine, especially if, as you say, the thunder is rumbling in the distance and not making loud booms right next to you.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:35 AM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]


There's some statistics here and here that can help you decide how ok you are with the risks.
posted by aniola at 12:36 AM on September 8, 2020


Response by poster: Thanks for the help. I was about to go out, when the thunder all of a sudden got alarmingly loud and close by. That's...that's bad, right? I texted a friend with a video of the current situation, and they asked me if I was serious and if I wanted to die. But of course they are also from California.

Maybe I just have to accept I'm about to get my second parking ticket this week.
posted by desert outpost at 12:43 AM on September 8, 2020


You're not dumb. If it is any consolation, I often ruminate on all the different options and weighing risks until I work myself into a state. Is it an option to wake up in a few hours to move the car?

I grew up with thunderstorms and lightning, and I would move the car if I were in your position, especially if the thunder is no longer as close. I am fond of my friends who grew up in California, but frankly many of them are not good judges of weather outside of their narrow range of experience.

I would not bother with the trash cans if not absolutely necessary because of the rain and the late hour. Whatever you decide, good luck!
posted by sums at 12:51 AM on September 8, 2020 [14 favorites]


Lightning happens where I live on a fairly regular basis. I've had a bolt of lightning come down close enough to me to set off a bunch of car alarms in a parking lot I was walking through. I knew someone who was hit by lightning. A different person in the area I lived was killed by lightning.

I had to look up sheet lightning as I'd never heard of it. -- "lightning appearing merely as a general illumination over a broad area, usually because the path of the flash is obscured by clouds."

I would be fine with walking to get my car in the situation you describe, under trees in a residential area with flashes of lightning going from cloud to cloud so high in the sky no direct bolt can be seen.

Rubber soled shoes are certainly your best choice of footwear.

I would not bother with the trash cans, can't they go out in the morning?

There are some apps and web pages to try to locate where lightning strikes are happening. They are not terribly accurate if, for example, there are 100 lighting ground strikes per hour. But it might give you some more idea what is going on with the lightning near you.

Alternatively, you could call whatever agency would be giving out tickets and ask if they will actually be ticketing people as you are worried about going out to move your car.
posted by yohko at 12:53 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]


Both your bins and your car can wait until the morning. Parking wardens & binmen are also hiding from the storm right now. Or sleeping.
posted by rd45 at 12:57 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]


What you need is a rationale for estimating the risk by determining your distance from the center of the thunderstorm. Here's one resource. The important passage is:

"Since you see lightning immediately and it takes the sound of thunder about 5 seconds to travel a mile, you can calculate the distance between you and the lightning. If you count the number of seconds between the flash of lightning and the sound of thunder, and then divide by 5, you'll get the distance in miles to the lightning: 5 seconds = 1 mile, 15 seconds = 3 miles, 0 seconds = very close."

So it is not about how loud the thunder is, but how much later it comes, that's good to know...
The kind of thunderstorm of course plays a role: sometimes there seems to be lightning all over the place, sometimes it is possible to identify a center where there's most activity; wind direction and speed, etc. are also important. But in general this is a good start trying to understand your risks. Being at home, i.e. able to retreat when the center moves nearer, is a great start for learning. Begin with getting your dustbins out when there's five seconds between flash and crash; deal with your car after a time of observing what's going on out there.
posted by Namlit at 1:13 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]


Someone posted lightningmaps.org on the blue the other day, and it does seem to be accurate to a degree. I was watching it during a thunderstorm the other day.

Where I live, bizarre and fierce lightning, including fireballs appearing out of nowhere, especially at this time of year, is common and no joke. I would not go walking around in it if not absolutely neccessary, unless I was certain it was really far away.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 1:15 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]


...adding: once you're inside your car you will be safe as the car acts as a Faraday Cage.
posted by Namlit at 1:15 AM on September 8, 2020


Response by poster: yohko, I did not realize those maps were a thing. The information was not comforting! Right now there are lightning strikes all over the city. Pretty much everywhere except my neighborhood. I'm not sure if these strikes are just hitting especially tall things, or what, and my neighborhood is just not full of especially tall things, but I don't know this place enough to say.

I feel like this means I should stay inside.

Thanks, everyone...

(Also yes for anyone wondering, the most sensible reaction to all this would have been, "oh yes I will just wake up and do things tomorrow," but the secondary problem here is my abnormal sleep cycle. If it weren't for that, I would have simply gone to bed long ago and set my alarm for 6:30, instead of getting into my 10 PM - 2 AM swing of furious cooking and cleaning.)
posted by desert outpost at 1:31 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]


Here's the Red Cross advice about going out in thunderstorms. In short: don't. If you can hear thunder you're in danger of getting struck by lightning and it is not a rare event. You're right to be cautious.
posted by firstdrop at 1:37 AM on September 8, 2020


Response by poster: Update I am very dumb probably but I just jogged outside, retrieved my mobile Faraday cage, and am now safely back indoors

(I saw someone else doing it, and human psychology is a terrible thing)

However, to anyone reading this thread with the same question, I would not do what I did. Outdoors just now, I had the same very bad feeling as when I was within (inadvertent) close range of bison during their Angry season. You know, where nature itself is electrically whispering at you that the situation is Not Good.

I'm going to bed now omg
posted by desert outpost at 1:45 AM on September 8, 2020 [12 favorites]


I am glad you are ok! My advice would be, omg no, stay inside and wait a few hours/set your alarm early to move it then. But bad sleep is a problem. I'd prefer a parking ticket too (or would argue that in the interests of safety it wasn't possible to move my car. I mean, if say a big flood had come up and you really truly couldn't move your car because it was in a lake, that would be an excuse too)
posted by kitten magic at 2:26 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]


You're in a neighborhood, with buildings and stuff? No wide-open spaces where you're the tallest thing in a ten-meter radius?

Yeah, you're fine. Probably get wet. Don't go hugging any trees or screaming at God in the middle of the street.
posted by notsnot at 6:09 AM on September 8, 2020 [19 favorites]


Lightning generates thunder so you can see lightning, wait for the thunder and get a general idea how close the most intense part of the storm is. If you can see lightning and hear thunder, there is risk, and the closer the storm, the more risk. Lightning is more likely to strike taller things like buildings, so that reduces risk, but doesn't eliminate it. Basically, you have to judge the level of risk, then decide. I have gone from, say, a mall exit, to my car, more than a few times, in thunderstorms, but not if the storm is intense and quite near. I'm glad you're safe from the storm and the ticket.
posted by theora55 at 6:21 AM on September 8, 2020


If you can hear thunder you're in danger of getting struck by lightning and it is not a rare event.
It is, unequivocally, a VERY VERY rare event. The Red Cross page is very alarming, I agree, but the guidelines shown are not things that, in my experience, people in lightning-prone areas actually worry about.

I have lived my entire life in states on the Gulf Coast. We get LOTS of dramatic thunderstorms. I'd miss them if they went away.

You probably do not want to stand outside holding a golf club during one. Dashing out to move your car is riskier than, say, staying inside in a locked room away from windows and plumbing and whatnot, but the risk is still very small.

In Houston, if the thunder starts, we probably get out of the pool.

If you run out during such a storm, you're likely to get very wet. This, to me, is a much bigger factor.

The tl;dr here is that you're over-worrying here a LOT. I get that, if you're from someplace where these storms don't happen, it probably feels like the Wrath of God outside during a really dramatic storm, but you're in no real danger. Move your car, go back inside, make some tea, and enjoy the spectacle.

(Obligatory joke: "What should you do if you're caught golfing during a thunderstorm?" "Easy, just hold up a one iron, because not even GOD can hit a one iron.")
posted by uberchet at 6:53 AM on September 8, 2020 [17 favorites]


I have lived in storm-prone areas for 40 years and it has literally never even once occurred to me to stay inside during a thunderstorm if I needed to do something outside during it. If it's raining super super hard I might put off doing something like moving my car just because I don't want to get soaked and I figure the cops aren't writing tickets in the deluge anyway.

As uberchet notes above, when there's lightning they close the golf courses and outdoor pools for a bit and that's about as much precaution as anyone needs. I guess if the winds are breaking branches off of trees, then you would also want to stay out of the tree-lined areas, but at that point you'd probably have Severe Storm Warnings and other things giving you guidance. If there's no storm warnings on TV, you are completely fine to do pretty much whatever.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:59 AM on September 8, 2020 [20 favorites]


Another person who grew up on the Gulf Coast, where thunderstorms are violent and frequent. I would not think twice before going to move my car, other than to put some towels inside by the door because you are going to be soaked to the skin almost instantly. I used to go out and play in it as a kid, though I don't exactly recommend that. I love a thunderstorm.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:03 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]


I've lived my whole life in the Northeastern US, where thunderstorms are so common it didn't even occur to me that you could just... not have them and therefore not have experience with them.

I would get out of a pool if it started thundering. If I were out in an area with a lot of very wide open spaces I might stay inside. But in general I think of thundestorms as being very unpleasant not actively dangerous. I and most people I know would walk a dog, run an errand, move a car, etc, during a thunderstorm if we had to, though it's very unpleasant so we'd avoid doing so unless necessary.

I should also note I've always lived in relatively dense urban areas where there's always a ton of much taller things around me and usually tall buildings with lightning rods somewhere nearby.

I have, personally, moved my car many times while able to hear thunder.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:44 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]


I live in a place with intense thunderstorms and while I wouldn't do something that can easily wait like walk the dog or take in the garbage bins, and I try to avoid biking or other prolonged outdoor activity, I wouldn't also hesitate to grab something from the car or go out to a store or something similar. As a kid I used to play outside in thunderstorms all the time and while I wouldn't recommend that, it's not particularly uncommon and how often do you hear of kids dying from it?

Yes there's a risk, and it's not a good idea to linger outside for no reason, but the risk is relatively small, especially if you avoid fields and similar wide-open areas. Keep in mind if you ever watch a storm from a window of your house, as I often do, that's a (small) risk too. Lots of other things we do every day without thinking about it have a small risk. Whether it's worth worrying about it is a personal choice, I guess.
posted by randomnity at 7:48 AM on September 8, 2020


Another person here, living in what's apparently one of the lightning capitals of the world (Singapore), who would generally not be worried about going out to get something during a thunderstorm as long as it doesn't take long and I'm not walking in an open field. I'd generally worry more about being soaking wet and having my umbrella be blown away. This is in a city though, with lots of high rises everywhere, so the chances of the lightning hitting me instead of all the tall buildings nearby is really small.
posted by destrius at 8:31 AM on September 8, 2020


I love thunderstorms and will actively go out in them for fun. I would not go out if I were the tallest thing. Some of the localized strikes you are seeing will be to buildings with lightning rods to lead the electricity down as opposed to risking a random strike just for being very tall. A residential area probably wouldn’t have that.
posted by J.R. Hartley at 9:00 AM on September 8, 2020


I also go outside in thunderstorms for fun, especially before the rain starts but sometimes while it is raining if I feel like stomping in gutter floods or want to check the flow of stormwater in my yard or whatever. I also try not to be the tallest thing or near any tall trees.

Also, if it storms at 5:00, tons of people will be running to their cars in the thunder and lightning.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:05 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]


The official advice is 'don't. Thunderstorms are dangerous, as noted, and your Faraday cage only works if the motor is off (otherwise you could get electrocuted inside).

That said, as you've seen, lightning strikes are quite rare and people who live where thunderstorms are common tend to become pretty blase about them. I've seen people doing quite dangerous things like hiking, swimming, golfing, up on a ladder on the roof, etc during storms, and the reason "TURN AROUND DON'T DROWN' is a NWS catchphrase is that many, many people drive through flooded roads (another more common danger).

So, like anything, peoples' risk tolerance varies. What people will tell you is OK and what is actually wise can be very, very different. You'll figure it out.
posted by epanalepsis at 9:20 AM on September 8, 2020


So, like anything, peoples' risk tolerance varies. What people will tell you is OK and what is actually wise can be very, very different. You'll figure it out.
I mean, sure, but this is a statement without meaning.

Per Weather.gov, only 20 Americans were killed by lightning in 2019. The table at the link also shows the circumstances of the strike, a number of which have already been called out as bad ideas (e.g., roof repair, boating, hanging out on a beach).

However, that number should also be taken in context. It's about a third of the number of Americans who die from bee or wasp stings every year, for example.

This site notes a few other unusual causes of death. On average, you're more likely to be killed by a lawnmower, or a serial killer. You're WAY more likely to die by autoerotic asphyxiation. And, in the ripped-from-the-headlines department, you are 49 times more likely to be shot by police.

The tl;dr is that there is very little real risk if you aren't standing on your roof holding a metal pole.
posted by uberchet at 11:49 AM on September 8, 2020 [7 favorites]


That Red Cross page is alarming but let us note that it isn't about everyday thunderstorms but about "severe thunderstorms," which is defined this way:
A thunderstorm is considered severe if it produces hail at least 1 inch in diameter or has wind gusts of at least 58 miles per hour.

That's a pretty extraordinary thunderstorm.

I also grew up with thunderstorms, and now I live someplace where they are infrequent. The noise and light can be startling, especially at night. But I would totally go move my car and put out my trashcans in a residential neighborhood with trees and houses. When I was a kid, we'd get out of the water in a storm. That's about it.

I think what you did was totally fine. I'd talk to your neighbors and folks around you. I am thinking that some of the advice here is from folks who aren't used to storms like this.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:59 PM on September 8, 2020 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: These perspectives are fascinating. I feel like it was safer than I thought! Not something to make a habit of, but now I wish I'd taken out the trash, haha. My calibration for these events is just nonexistent. When I googled it at 2 AM the internet told me I was basically going to die because I was using an electronic device and had had the stove on.

My neighbors were my first line of inquiry, but apparently they are ALSO new from Southern California (we should start a club)

Thanks for weighing in, everyone.
posted by desert outpost at 1:03 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]


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