Comments on: how do I give my vegetarian soups and food depth?

Question: how do I give my vegetarian soups and food depth?

daver — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:46:55 -0800

VegeFoodieFilter: how do I give my vegetarian soups and food depth? I made moosewood vegetarian borscht last night, and while it's good it really lacks depth. I get this kind of depth by browning meats (creating 'fonds' as I learned last time I asked a question like this) and using stock for my meaty-foods.

What can I do to get similar depth in my veg-only dishes?

By: The Jesse Helms

The Jesse Helms — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:54:42 -0800

A variety of mushrooms work pretty well for me, depending on what sort of soup.

By: omnidrew

omnidrew — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0800

Miso is your friend.

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:57:37 -0800

MSG

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:02:53 -0800

MSG.

By: holgate

holgate — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:05:18 -0800

Mushroom ketchup, if you can get it (or make it). Or a yeast extract such as Marmite.

By: zadcat

zadcat — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:54 -0800

Seaweed. Look for kombu, or try whatever you can find at the health food store or Asian grocery.

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:09:30 -0800

(to elaborate a bit, seaweed, miso, and mushrooms are all relatively high in MSG)

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:12:14 -0800

Mushrooms are good, as is always starting with a good mirepoix. A bit of extra celery salt can really help. Also carmelized onions.

Kombu, a kind of wide thick seaweed is a really great addition to many soups, one which can be removed before serving as with bay leaves. Kombu has naturally occuring MSG in it, but also just has a depth of taste that is good.

Finally, for soups, I frequently add a couple of tablespoons of different types of vinegar. Not too much, you don't want things to taste like vinegar, but it seems to improve the mouthflavor of soups. I actually think that this is a trick that I picked up from the Moosewood recipe for gazpacho many years ago, and expanded for use in other soups. ( I could be misremembering where I picked it up, though.)

By: traderjoefan

traderjoefan — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:18:35 -0800

How about throwing in some meatless meats like veggie meatballs from Trader Joe's?

I also saw some frozen mushroom mixes there.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:19:22 -0800

I assume by depth you mean layers of flavor...

I use 'odd' ingredients (for soups) like coconut meat, avocado, agave nectar, pureed cucumber, citrus (lotta lime), nuts (sliced macadamia nuts)...

This is my favorite veg soup, followed by a close second for Cucumber-Pineapple Gazpacho.

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:21:08 -0800

Kombu broth is what MSG was first isolated from, in fact. And marmite is just chock-full of it. Both these might be easier to cook with than the powdered stuff. A little of that powder goes a long way.

As for borscht in particular, I finish mine up by adding the juice of a lemon, a tablespoon of red wine vinegar, a tablespoon of brown sugar, and two minced garlic cloves just before serving. These all go towards adding "brightness" to the flavor, though, and I'm not sure that they'll help you find the depth that you're looking for.

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:22:48 -0800

Mushrooms or tomato products. What's missing may be the umami taste.

By: frykitty

frykitty — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:22:52 -0800

I begin with well-sauteed onions, and use layers of spices in my dishes to create depth. For a stew, I would use coriander, oregano, thyme, basil, and red pepper flakes. I love herbs and spices, and it's rare I use less than four in any given dish.

By: junesix

junesix — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:26:34 -0800

Depth of flavor in veg soups is largely dependent on the stock. Spend part of an afternoon and make a large pot of homemade vegetable stock. Having good, fresh stock will instantly raise the level of any soups and sauces by orders of magnitude. Salt and glutamates contributes some "savoriness" but a rich stock adds flavor complexity, body, and mouthfeel/texture.

I'll paste a vegetable stock recipe when I get home. Follow the directions and when finished, portion half the stock into ice cube trays and half into plastic containers. Use the frozen cubed stock for sauces and the container stock for soups.

By: Utilitaritron

Utilitaritron — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:32:11 -0800

I often use tamari instead of salt, it helps some.

By: letitrain

letitrain — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:35:01 -0800

I like to brown sliced vegetables on a dry skillet, then deglaze the pan by adding a small bunch of greens (chard, kale, dandelion, whatever). The greens release just enough liquid as they wilt to scrape up all the tastiest bits off the pan. This gives the smoky "deep" flavor that meat provides when it's been slightly charred.

By: iconomy

iconomy — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:48:19 -0800

I think the key ingredient in depth of flavor with things like veggie broth is fat of some kind. It just adds a richness and savoriness and satisfying mouth feel that you can't duplicate with anything else. I find adding a little olive oil really brings out the pow in veggie soups of all kinds. letitrain's deglazing is a really great idea, too.

By: rossination

rossination — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:19:12 -0800

My secret trick is to add a liberal dash of balsamic vinegar to the soup while deglazing the pan, and then a bit more to finish right before you serve. Especially with heartier soups like mushroom and lentil, this really brings out the richer flavors that you may be missing sans meat.

Good luck! I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat much meat. I think that cooking meatless is a fun challenge.

By: lometogo

lometogo — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:23:00 -0800

Bragg's Liquid Aminos is the answer!

By: rdc

rdc — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:48:07 -0800

Imagine Organic No-Chicken Broth.

By: elisabeth r

elisabeth r — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:53:16 -0800

butter.

By: i_am_joe's_spleen

i_am_joe's_spleen — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:29:54 -0800

Tomato paste. Marmite/Vegemite/Your local yeast spread. Salt (those Moosewood recipes never seem to have any damned salt in as I recall). Brown your onions properly first. Charred red pepper. Smoked paprika. Worcester sauce (check for anchovies before choosing a brand, Lea and Perrins use them but some of the imitators don't). Wine.

By: Decani

Decani — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:45:18 -0800

Caramelisation, my friend. Onions, shallots... caramelise those babies in your base. Deglaze with something kickass like balsamic or brandy, mmm. Also, dried porcini and similarly robust mushrooms can be used to make a wonderfully flavourful stock.

Personally I think there are many good reasons to stay well clear of MSG, but that's a matter of taste, I guess.

By: team lowkey

team lowkey — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:54:10 -0800

If it's the flavor of browned meats that your missing, you can get that from any seared protein. Sear some tofu until it's brown, and you'll get some of those same flavors out of it. (you'll be used to tasting it with all the fat as well, so it won't taste the same, but you can add other fats to compensate).

But what you might actually be missing is the mouthfeel of collagen. That's what makes meat stock taste so round and hearty, and what makes veggie stock seem so shallow by comparison. I haven't tried it myself, but you could add some agar agar or other veggie gelatin to your broth, and see if that adds some of the "depth" your looking for.

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:06:10 -0800

If you're going for the rich, "meaty" glutamate flavor, you can also try beer and hard cheeses, which are high in it as well. Depending on where you live, they may be easier to find than kombu and miso. (Miso really is awesome, though it's one of the great joys of vegetarian eating, and you should definitely give it a try.)

When it comes to "weight" and bitterness, the tannins in red wine can help. So can browning, as others have mentioned. Learn how to make a good dark roux. Try roasting your aromatic vegetables instead of sauteeing them.

If you're looking for more complex flavors, try using wine or wine vinegars (balsamic counts), or preserved and pickled veggies. I'm especially fond of olives, which are also bitter and rich in glutamate, so that's a three-for-one. If you cook them in stews, they'll mellow out and make the broth more interesting without slapping you in the face with that medicinal olive-y taste that some people don't like.

Reduction is also important. Raw mushrooms taste good, but sauteed mushrooms that you've cooked down slowly taste much, much richer. Same goes for other aromatic vegetables, wine, vinegar, veggie broth, and so on. Make sure you add salt after reducing so the finished product isn't totally over-the-top batshit salty.

(On preview, team lowkey's suggestion about collagen makes sense too. I've never tried cooking with agar either, but it seems like it'd be worth a shot.)

By: Kololo

Kololo — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:14:55 -0800

Lots of well-browned onions; worcester sauce; roasted veggies

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:38:11 -0800

Crock pot the motherfucker. Amazing how much flavor slow-cooking adds.

By: ontic

ontic — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:08:34 -0800

I'm guessing you're missing the collagen too. While it's not a substitute, I've found that pureed vegetables with the tiniest bit of oil (and sometimes balsamic) adds a wonderful touch to most soups. Generally you want to use a vegetable that figures in the soup, though adventurous choices can lead to great results (pureed celery or squash in potato-leek soup).

By: soviet sleepover

soviet sleepover — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:20:50 -0800

Pureed potato will add a creamy texture without the heavy dairy/fat of real cream.

Also, I'm a big fan of adding almonds to soups & stirfries, and though there must be some rule about matching nuts to flavors/types of cooking, I'm ignorant of it.

By: digitalis

digitalis — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:06:48 -0800

Good olive oil. My father's soups are gold on top, and taste rich, rich, rich, and he doesn't even use a ton.

I sometimes char peppers in a dry skillet (good with spices like turmeric or cumin). What other people said about deglazing a pan. I've been known to make soup after having a vegetarian skillet meal, because I couldn't bear to waste that crust in the pan. Deglazing with white wine is sometimes good.

A little tomato sauce is good in soups, sometimes not enough enough to see.

By: bifter

bifter — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:04:11 -0800

Adding a big piece of rind from a chunk of parmigiano reggiano (or similar) is a nice frugal trick to add depth to soups that suit that sort of flavour. Obviously you remove it before serving.

By: polyglot

polyglot — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:12:55 -0800

Primary things you're likely missing are umami flavours and fat. Fat is probably best obtained from dairy: cream or cheese; personally I think a bit of mozzarella goes a long way. Here's an n^th vote for properly caramelised onions, worcester sauce and vegemite. Roasted capsicum ("bell peppers" to you yanks), roasted garlic.

Mushroom could be good but I wouldn't know 'cos I'm allergic to them. If you're feeling totally indulgent and have more cash than sense, go for a bit of black truffle.

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:01:07 -0800

Oh, yeah. Definitely parmigiano-reggiano rinds. That's as good or better than MSG, depending on what style of soup you're making.

By: Sara Anne

Sara Anne — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:23:51 -0800

I second all the above, but for fast and easy, throw in some beer.

By: Sara Anne

Sara Anne — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:33:51 -0800

Oh, and Worcester sauce has sardines in it.

By: holgate

holgate — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:01:29 -0800

While its rinds are great to use in soups, proper parmigiano reggiana is made with animal rennet.

By: i_am_joe's_spleen

i_am_joe's_spleen — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:18:43 -0800

Worcester sauce has sardines in it.

As I noted above, some brands don't use anchovies. Read the label.

By: mojabunni

mojabunni — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:53:28 -0800

Liquid Smoke is GREAT! I'm not sure about soups per se, but I use it to make dishes like Lentils Bolognese (a version of an Italian meat sauce over noodles made with lentils instead) and it adds a lot of depth and meatiness to the flavor. Use it sparingly -- it's strong.

Also, to add depth to anything, try slow cooking it on Low for 6-8 hours.. It coaxes more flavor out of food than cooking quickly will. I highly recommend this vegetarian slow-cooker book - I've made many a recipe from it and continue to live by it. She includes all kinds of recipes in it -- many for soups, but also entrees, desserts, etc. Otherwise, for slow cooking, here are two links for how to adapt your recipes to a slow cooker. If you choose to buy one, I recommend a 6-Qt which go for about $40 -- almost anything you can cook in a smaller cooker you can cook in a 6-QT cooker.

Good luck!

By: kaseijin

kaseijin — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:50:35 -0800

i_am_joe's_spleen has it right. Vegemite/Marmite is great for creating "beefy" tasting broths.

If you look, many commercially available "fake beef" flavored broths containg something called "autolyzed yeast extract." This is another (generic) name for Vegemite and Marmite.

You can simulate beef stock by using veggie stock and adding Vegemite to taste. Great for French onion soup!

By: kaseijin

kaseijin — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:51:24 -0800

Also -- if you have a Kroger near you, their store-brand worcestershire sauce contains no fishies.

By: daver

daver — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:44:26 -0800

Thanks for the excellent answers everybody. I tried to mark unique answers despite the fact that almost every answer was very helpful.