It got better.
February 28, 2020 2:06 PM Subscribe
You are neurodivergent. You had trouble and were frustrated getting even OK results in some area or skill (music, gardening, math, a sport, what have you) that other people seemed to get with just a little application. Over time, your efforts in that problem area got better results and yielded greater satisfaction. Tell me about your journey!
Why do I ask? I'm an autist, I'm older, and I would really like to start growing my own food over time. Despite efforts and application, my gardening results have not been great. I suspect it's due to lack of available mentors: YouTube and book learning can go only so far. And I'm not sure I can improve.
And an example from my own life: I was a gutter bowler... until it occurred to me to keep eyes on the pins until I had released the ball and done the follow through with my throwing arm. I don't know whether someone had suggested that to me or whether it simply occurred to me to do it from hearing it in the context of golf. Instant and dramatic improvement.
I'm looking for a bit of neurodivergent inspiration here, not gardening advice. Also, please do not answer this question unless you believe in good faith that you are neurodivergent.
Why do I ask? I'm an autist, I'm older, and I would really like to start growing my own food over time. Despite efforts and application, my gardening results have not been great. I suspect it's due to lack of available mentors: YouTube and book learning can go only so far. And I'm not sure I can improve.
And an example from my own life: I was a gutter bowler... until it occurred to me to keep eyes on the pins until I had released the ball and done the follow through with my throwing arm. I don't know whether someone had suggested that to me or whether it simply occurred to me to do it from hearing it in the context of golf. Instant and dramatic improvement.
I'm looking for a bit of neurodivergent inspiration here, not gardening advice. Also, please do not answer this question unless you believe in good faith that you are neurodivergent.
Autistic, adult diagnosis.
I am not athletic and am generally hopeless at sports, but achieved medium competence in tennis at an earlier point of my life. This happened because my dad, who coached me, is the most patient person on earth and he was happy to take me to the tennis court and practice with me and drill me as long as I was interested. (I was very interested! I love tennis.) He was always very kind and encouraging.
I started fencing a couple years ago and even now am probably the worst adult student at the school. But my coach is very good, very kind, and very patient, and he gives great pointers--I switched from foil to epee on his advice, and after some rounds of his pointers, he commented (and other fencers agreed) that my fencing had improved a lot. Getting half-hour private lessons once a week in addition to going to group classes and doing open fencing really helped a lot--I thrive when I get one-on-one feedback and encouragement, even if I'm slower to learn than other people.
posted by yhlee at 2:54 PM on February 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am not athletic and am generally hopeless at sports, but achieved medium competence in tennis at an earlier point of my life. This happened because my dad, who coached me, is the most patient person on earth and he was happy to take me to the tennis court and practice with me and drill me as long as I was interested. (I was very interested! I love tennis.) He was always very kind and encouraging.
I started fencing a couple years ago and even now am probably the worst adult student at the school. But my coach is very good, very kind, and very patient, and he gives great pointers--I switched from foil to epee on his advice, and after some rounds of his pointers, he commented (and other fencers agreed) that my fencing had improved a lot. Getting half-hour private lessons once a week in addition to going to group classes and doing open fencing really helped a lot--I thrive when I get one-on-one feedback and encouragement, even if I'm slower to learn than other people.
posted by yhlee at 2:54 PM on February 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Scaffolding. Scaffolding. Scaffolding. I believe I am slightly neurodivergent or sensory. My children are DEFINITLY sensory and non neurotypical.
I now only have to learn things that I want to learn. One of those things has been improving my posture and increasing my core strength- I felt like an old lady at 36! I have taken the Alexander technique (but not the whole course) and started reformer Pilates.
This has worked. The Alexander teacher was a scaffold and the reformer machine supports me. It takes me longer and I am uncoordinated but I’m making measurable progress in an area I haven’t managed to make progress for many years.
For my 4 year old who has great difficulty with his body, swimming lessons with a private special needs teacher has helped him a lot. It takes him much longer to learn- but he has scaffolding and support.
Then we are adding in other stuff like horse riding to build his core etc.
This goes for all the stuff, motor skills, fine motor skills.
For all of us it is basically getting a patient instructor and then taking baby steps.
I don’t know how to advise you for gardening except to just keep at it, take baby steps. Could you choose 1-3 plants you want to try and build on that over the course of some years? Finding expert advise along the way, somehow?
But seriously: scaffolding, patient experts, baby steps and practice.
posted by catspajammies at 2:56 PM on February 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
I now only have to learn things that I want to learn. One of those things has been improving my posture and increasing my core strength- I felt like an old lady at 36! I have taken the Alexander technique (but not the whole course) and started reformer Pilates.
This has worked. The Alexander teacher was a scaffold and the reformer machine supports me. It takes me longer and I am uncoordinated but I’m making measurable progress in an area I haven’t managed to make progress for many years.
For my 4 year old who has great difficulty with his body, swimming lessons with a private special needs teacher has helped him a lot. It takes him much longer to learn- but he has scaffolding and support.
Then we are adding in other stuff like horse riding to build his core etc.
This goes for all the stuff, motor skills, fine motor skills.
For all of us it is basically getting a patient instructor and then taking baby steps.
I don’t know how to advise you for gardening except to just keep at it, take baby steps. Could you choose 1-3 plants you want to try and build on that over the course of some years? Finding expert advise along the way, somehow?
But seriously: scaffolding, patient experts, baby steps and practice.
posted by catspajammies at 2:56 PM on February 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I'll give (basically) the same answer I gave to a very different question. Key Performance Indicators (KPIs).
So much of accepted wisdom is bunk - untestable lore. So much of what we come up with ourselves is bunk of a similar nature. When starting something new I do try to develop a short list of KPIs; a short list of measurable things that are worth worrying about. Everything else can be a little slap-dash as I am able to accommodate at the time. This approach has given me so much more space to try, fail, and try again.
When I need to know if I'm making progress I review my measurable KPIs. Otherwise I try very hard to assume that progress is being made and leave the worrying for future me. Success (and failures) at other aspects are ephemeral (because I said so) so it's much easier to recognize a good moment and disregard the bad ones. I know that I'll always be harder on myself than I need to be so a structure to give myself a space to not self-criticize is freeing.
If I were to take up gardening my personal process might look something like:
I recognize in myself that I am not likely to get less rigid in this regard. I'm not likely to magically build a whole new toolbox of coping mechanisms. I can, however, use the ones I've got, keep them polished and add a new one now and then.
posted by mce at 3:44 PM on February 28, 2020 [16 favorites]
So much of accepted wisdom is bunk - untestable lore. So much of what we come up with ourselves is bunk of a similar nature. When starting something new I do try to develop a short list of KPIs; a short list of measurable things that are worth worrying about. Everything else can be a little slap-dash as I am able to accommodate at the time. This approach has given me so much more space to try, fail, and try again.
When I need to know if I'm making progress I review my measurable KPIs. Otherwise I try very hard to assume that progress is being made and leave the worrying for future me. Success (and failures) at other aspects are ephemeral (because I said so) so it's much easier to recognize a good moment and disregard the bad ones. I know that I'll always be harder on myself than I need to be so a structure to give myself a space to not self-criticize is freeing.
If I were to take up gardening my personal process might look something like:
- What grows here?
- What do those thinks like in an environment? What don't they like?
- What can I do about those factors?
- How do I measure my progress making the environment more amenable?
- Are there a small handful of general best practices I can find citations from multiple sources?
- How do I measure these?
- Good talk Self - let's set an appointment to review progress in $x days and another appointment to review the KPIs themselves in $y weeks
I recognize in myself that I am not likely to get less rigid in this regard. I'm not likely to magically build a whole new toolbox of coping mechanisms. I can, however, use the ones I've got, keep them polished and add a new one now and then.
posted by mce at 3:44 PM on February 28, 2020 [16 favorites]
No formal diagnosis, but a strong suspicion.
I learned to ride a bike as an adult. It took many tries separated by years. Adult friends tried to teach me and failed. I think what finally did it is some combination of having succeeded at other hard things and being really bored at work. I’m still not good enough to ride in traffic, but I can huff along on the bike path behind the fam and have a decent time.
I learned to run as an adult. Somehow I got the insight that breath control mattered and it was like a door unlocked, and building mileage (to a point) became just a matter of patient practice rather than a matter of gritting my teeth through side splints. Once I had that, I did follow a plan to increase mileage (some famous guy’s 5K training plan). I don’t run anymore but it was a real relief to have a hobby where sucking with no consequence and gradually improving were both on the table.
posted by eirias at 3:46 PM on February 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
I learned to ride a bike as an adult. It took many tries separated by years. Adult friends tried to teach me and failed. I think what finally did it is some combination of having succeeded at other hard things and being really bored at work. I’m still not good enough to ride in traffic, but I can huff along on the bike path behind the fam and have a decent time.
I learned to run as an adult. Somehow I got the insight that breath control mattered and it was like a door unlocked, and building mileage (to a point) became just a matter of patient practice rather than a matter of gritting my teeth through side splints. Once I had that, I did follow a plan to increase mileage (some famous guy’s 5K training plan). I don’t run anymore but it was a real relief to have a hobby where sucking with no consequence and gradually improving were both on the table.
posted by eirias at 3:46 PM on February 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Recognise a method that works for you. I cannot learn another language by listening alone or in classes. I have no audio retention much to my very patient teachers who tried so hard. I taught myself two years of German in high school In 3 months to place in the advanced class because I was so frustrated at my very nice but also frustrated French teacher’s despair over my lack of progress after 3 years. What I learned is that I need to read and write and understand the grammar first, then learn the spoken afterwards through exposure and practice. It’s not how it is typically taught, but it’s how I have made any progress. I am trying for Chinese and to advance my Khmer, and it is the same ridiculousness - failed or barely scraped in classes but the grammar is far better. Eventually spoken will catch up.
Don’t be afraid to completely change the path of learning from what’s recommended or to do advanced things then go back to basics. I only learnt to dive as a kid because I was accidentally taught how to do a backwards somersault flip first, then realised how to do ordinary forward diving.
Also I just don’t do things involving large coordination or throwing a ball, full stop. It’s too much and there are other things.
I have given up on killing more plants from forgetting to water them but when I had a garden my successes were finicky plants like orchids and tomatoes (hard to do here where humidity means you have to hand pollinate and watch out for heat all the time). Something that required fussing worked better than easy plants at the beginning.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:20 PM on February 28, 2020 [10 favorites]
Don’t be afraid to completely change the path of learning from what’s recommended or to do advanced things then go back to basics. I only learnt to dive as a kid because I was accidentally taught how to do a backwards somersault flip first, then realised how to do ordinary forward diving.
Also I just don’t do things involving large coordination or throwing a ball, full stop. It’s too much and there are other things.
I have given up on killing more plants from forgetting to water them but when I had a garden my successes were finicky plants like orchids and tomatoes (hard to do here where humidity means you have to hand pollinate and watch out for heat all the time). Something that required fussing worked better than easy plants at the beginning.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:20 PM on February 28, 2020 [10 favorites]
I’ve lived in California most of my adult life and always wanted to learn to surf. Poor coordination, sensory stuff with temperature and social anxiety made this very difficult but in the last year I’ve had major success! I had to address the challenges separately. This is all the things I did:
1. Convinced my family to go with me on a group surfing lesson. Having a supportive crowd, especially one where I didn’t feel like the focus of attention, got me through the basics.
2. Did the research and got a wetsuit that is probably overkill but solves my cold water issues. Also, turns out that the compression is really nice!
3. Found some nonjudgmental surfing friends and explained that I didn’t want to go with them, but I did want to know where I could go to learn without feeling social pressure. Got some good advice and picked a local spot for myself to learn at.
4. Made a habit - going out regardless of wave quality, on a schedule, no excuses. Planned out where I park, where I change, everything, all in a time and location that isn’t crowded and where I feel comfortable.
What I didn’t expect is that a new thing could add so much calm and joy to my week. It’s become a centering activity that I rely on to get me from week to week and I’m so glad I made it work my way.
posted by q*ben at 8:59 PM on February 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
1. Convinced my family to go with me on a group surfing lesson. Having a supportive crowd, especially one where I didn’t feel like the focus of attention, got me through the basics.
2. Did the research and got a wetsuit that is probably overkill but solves my cold water issues. Also, turns out that the compression is really nice!
3. Found some nonjudgmental surfing friends and explained that I didn’t want to go with them, but I did want to know where I could go to learn without feeling social pressure. Got some good advice and picked a local spot for myself to learn at.
4. Made a habit - going out regardless of wave quality, on a schedule, no excuses. Planned out where I park, where I change, everything, all in a time and location that isn’t crowded and where I feel comfortable.
What I didn’t expect is that a new thing could add so much calm and joy to my week. It’s become a centering activity that I rely on to get me from week to week and I’m so glad I made it work my way.
posted by q*ben at 8:59 PM on February 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
So in my case my advice is as an autist AND a gardener.
Some skill I had was basically innate as I grew up helping my parents tend the veggies. But for a lot of reasons there was a time gap and when it was my turn about 10 years ago I fucked up a lot. This would discourage me and I’d stop until months later i’d return and succeed in some way but then fuck up again- repeat.
What helped was taking classes and reading books- specific to my area. There are good practices in gardening that are universal- but especially in an area like SF the wild weather means you need advice from your neck of the woods. The second thing that helped was asking for advice at my local garden center- where I now work. My blog started a year or so plus ago also helped- because once I had some confidence I could record my success and my failures- and my failures were no longer an embarrassment but a help to other people. You don’t need to blog but journalling can help you record your path- and trying to reframe failures as how you learn helps too. You probably aren’t trying to turn your hobby into a career like I did- but the best thing I ever did was talk to people. WHICH IS REALLY HARD! But when I took that class with Pam Peirce... I learned so much. I still fucked up- but I kept going. It can be really hard as an autist to shrug off failure without feeling like a failure yourself- but if you can learn to accept that it teaches you something- especially in gardening, you’ll be better next season.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:41 PM on February 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
Some skill I had was basically innate as I grew up helping my parents tend the veggies. But for a lot of reasons there was a time gap and when it was my turn about 10 years ago I fucked up a lot. This would discourage me and I’d stop until months later i’d return and succeed in some way but then fuck up again- repeat.
What helped was taking classes and reading books- specific to my area. There are good practices in gardening that are universal- but especially in an area like SF the wild weather means you need advice from your neck of the woods. The second thing that helped was asking for advice at my local garden center- where I now work. My blog started a year or so plus ago also helped- because once I had some confidence I could record my success and my failures- and my failures were no longer an embarrassment but a help to other people. You don’t need to blog but journalling can help you record your path- and trying to reframe failures as how you learn helps too. You probably aren’t trying to turn your hobby into a career like I did- but the best thing I ever did was talk to people. WHICH IS REALLY HARD! But when I took that class with Pam Peirce... I learned so much. I still fucked up- but I kept going. It can be really hard as an autist to shrug off failure without feeling like a failure yourself- but if you can learn to accept that it teaches you something- especially in gardening, you’ll be better next season.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:41 PM on February 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I'm neurodivergent but I don't have an ASD, which probably does make a bit of a difference. When it comes to learning things that involve gross motor skills, the following approaches have helped:
1. Learning new physical skills through lessons with an instructor rather than getting friends to teach me - I pick up gross motor-related skills just slowly enough that it can be frustrating for others who aren't paid instructors. It's a somewhat expensive, lonely, and potentially less fun way of learning new activities, but it reduces a lot of awkwardness in my relationships. For example, I have a bad habit of dating people who are comfortable skiing double black diamond runs, but I'm a seemingly perma-novice snowboarder myself - so romantic ski resort trips are pretty much a no-go.
1b. Private lessons are sometimes a better way to go than group lessons, because it's easier to accommodate problems that arise from having a spiky profile of skills when you're not tied to working through a standard progression of skills with a group.
2. Finding settings where I can spend a lot of time practicing on my own and developing sport-specific body awareness without interfering with others' enjoyment of a space. Like swimming at times when I'm likely to get a lane to myself, or getting to the mountain early to practice my carving technique without mowing down small children.
3. Being really mindful of seeking out activity partners who are comfortable with my skill level has been a game-changer.
4. Just being in better shape in general; starting a regular yoga practice really helped me improve my proprioception, weightlifting even moreso.
It does get better, though; I'm a reasonably outdoorsy person as an adult despite being kind of physically timid and it's working out just fine.
I want to follow this up with a point about being competitive. Sure, I have a pretty competitive nature, but these tactics aren't so much about wanting to avoid the shame of not being the best at something as they are about minimizing social friction so I can progress and be a good activity partner.
posted by blerghamot at 12:36 AM on February 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
1. Learning new physical skills through lessons with an instructor rather than getting friends to teach me - I pick up gross motor-related skills just slowly enough that it can be frustrating for others who aren't paid instructors. It's a somewhat expensive, lonely, and potentially less fun way of learning new activities, but it reduces a lot of awkwardness in my relationships. For example, I have a bad habit of dating people who are comfortable skiing double black diamond runs, but I'm a seemingly perma-novice snowboarder myself - so romantic ski resort trips are pretty much a no-go.
1b. Private lessons are sometimes a better way to go than group lessons, because it's easier to accommodate problems that arise from having a spiky profile of skills when you're not tied to working through a standard progression of skills with a group.
2. Finding settings where I can spend a lot of time practicing on my own and developing sport-specific body awareness without interfering with others' enjoyment of a space. Like swimming at times when I'm likely to get a lane to myself, or getting to the mountain early to practice my carving technique without mowing down small children.
3. Being really mindful of seeking out activity partners who are comfortable with my skill level has been a game-changer.
4. Just being in better shape in general; starting a regular yoga practice really helped me improve my proprioception, weightlifting even moreso.
It does get better, though; I'm a reasonably outdoorsy person as an adult despite being kind of physically timid and it's working out just fine.
I want to follow this up with a point about being competitive. Sure, I have a pretty competitive nature, but these tactics aren't so much about wanting to avoid the shame of not being the best at something as they are about minimizing social friction so I can progress and be a good activity partner.
posted by blerghamot at 12:36 AM on February 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not diagnosed, but strong suspicion.
I decided to get better at mountain biking, which I *love* but do alone or with a guide when I am traveling. I tried a group course and had a horrible time likely since: (1) it included a group ride; (2) I have (as @blerghamot described) a spiky skill profile, where I am struggling with "weird" things, which I could be very clear about, but were not part of the course; (3) the group ride was on a trail that I had never ridden before. The staff were mostly nice, the exercises we did were good, but that group ride was wayyyy too much. I was very, very close to a meltdown by the end of the day.
Since then, I started working one-on-one with a coach. I was able to explain the exact issues I was having and address them, evening out the spiky profile. I got much better with her help. I also started reading some online materials on conditioning in the off-season and I found a friend who wants to ride, so we are planning a trip!
So three points:
- know where your weak spots are as best you can
- find a good coach for those areas (though if they are good, they will probably find more)
- fill in with other supporting material as you get better to reinforce your results
Hope that helps!
posted by chiefthe at 3:46 PM on March 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I decided to get better at mountain biking, which I *love* but do alone or with a guide when I am traveling. I tried a group course and had a horrible time likely since: (1) it included a group ride; (2) I have (as @blerghamot described) a spiky skill profile, where I am struggling with "weird" things, which I could be very clear about, but were not part of the course; (3) the group ride was on a trail that I had never ridden before. The staff were mostly nice, the exercises we did were good, but that group ride was wayyyy too much. I was very, very close to a meltdown by the end of the day.
Since then, I started working one-on-one with a coach. I was able to explain the exact issues I was having and address them, evening out the spiky profile. I got much better with her help. I also started reading some online materials on conditioning in the off-season and I found a friend who wants to ride, so we are planning a trip!
So three points:
- know where your weak spots are as best you can
- find a good coach for those areas (though if they are good, they will probably find more)
- fill in with other supporting material as you get better to reinforce your results
Hope that helps!
posted by chiefthe at 3:46 PM on March 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
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The lessons were key, I couldn't have done it without a really high level of feedback about what I was getting right and what I wasn't.
posted by quacks like a duck at 2:19 PM on February 28, 2020 [2 favorites]