Can you help me find a small Linux laptop?
February 16, 2020 3:05 PM Subscribe
I want a small (11.6-inch) laptop mostly for word processing, email, and streaming music. I've been using a Chromebook but would like to try a Linux computer this time. I need it to be light weight, with decent battery life and a good, clear screen, below $500. Is this a thing?
I know that people often boot Linux onto computers with different operating systems. But I don't love Windows, Mac or Chromebook and would like to try something less corporate. If that doesn't make sense (wanting a Linux-only device) maybe you can tell me why not?
Not sure if it's relevant in an age when many Linux devices seem noob-friendly, but the most high-tech thing I've done is root Android phones.
Thanks for your help, Linux-friendly AskMe!
I know that people often boot Linux onto computers with different operating systems. But I don't love Windows, Mac or Chromebook and would like to try something less corporate. If that doesn't make sense (wanting a Linux-only device) maybe you can tell me why not?
Not sure if it's relevant in an age when many Linux devices seem noob-friendly, but the most high-tech thing I've done is root Android phones.
Thanks for your help, Linux-friendly AskMe!
Response by poster: To clarify a few points: after 2 years of service my Chromebook is dying (bad battery, can't handle many websites without crashing). I have heard of that guy Mathowie and would credit his recommendation, but I really want a tiny -- 11.6 inch -- computer, and it looks like the Motile is 14 inches.
posted by hungrytiger at 3:22 PM on February 16, 2020
posted by hungrytiger at 3:22 PM on February 16, 2020
I like the X series Thinkpads. They're 12", and may be too expensive new, but they have excellent battery life and Linux compatibility, and there is a second-hand market (which may vary regionally). The X260 I'm working on right now, which is still perfectly fine, can be bought second-hand here for about half your stated budget (with some fuzz factor because of currency conversion).
Caveat: I don't keep up to date with which Thinkpad models are currently considered good and bad. There is a thriving Thinkpad subreddit on Reddit which has a wiki and a bunch of guides and FAQs for buying them new and used -- I recommend checking that out if this seems like a good idea.
posted by confluency at 3:32 PM on February 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
Caveat: I don't keep up to date with which Thinkpad models are currently considered good and bad. There is a thriving Thinkpad subreddit on Reddit which has a wiki and a bunch of guides and FAQs for buying them new and used -- I recommend checking that out if this seems like a good idea.
posted by confluency at 3:32 PM on February 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
The Dell XPS 13 is one of the best small Linux laptops I know of. NewEgg has several refurbished models in stock, including this one for $545.
You can buy a new XPS 13 from Dell with Ubuntu Linux pre-installed, but new ones are much more expensive. These refurbs come with Windows, so you will need to install Linux yourself.
Note that this XPS has a 13-inch screen, but its external dimensions are the same as most 11.6-inch laptops, since it lacks the typical large bezel around the screen.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:37 PM on February 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
You can buy a new XPS 13 from Dell with Ubuntu Linux pre-installed, but new ones are much more expensive. These refurbs come with Windows, so you will need to install Linux yourself.
Note that this XPS has a 13-inch screen, but its external dimensions are the same as most 11.6-inch laptops, since it lacks the typical large bezel around the screen.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:37 PM on February 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
In theory, you can install Linux on any modern laptop. In practice, there are occasional issues with particular hardware from particular vendors. It's been months (which is years in computer time) since I last had to worry about this, so I don't know what the pitfall du jour is. Recently there were issues with dual graphics, which you can avoid by sticking to Intel graphics only (which is likely to be what you get in inexpensive small notebooks).
It's a good idea to google the model(s) you're thinking of getting together with "Linux" or "Ubuntu", to see if anyone has had any major problems that you need to know about.
posted by confluency at 3:37 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's a good idea to google the model(s) you're thinking of getting together with "Linux" or "Ubuntu", to see if anyone has had any major problems that you need to know about.
posted by confluency at 3:37 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
OP, I see that Star Lite sells an 11-inch screen laptop with respectable specs (8gb, 240gb) and Linux Mint preinstalled for $450 on Amazon. The CPU doesn't have a lot of grunt but is probably okay for your uses. I can't recommend this model personally, though, as I haven't used it. When buying an inexpensive laptop, definitely do read the reviews! Lots of lemons out there.
I've run linux on my laptops for years and my path into this has been to roll my own -- buy a laptop with a windows license and install linux alongside it. (much as I'm not into windows, it is the best steam launcher in the world.) However, bear in mind....
Linux runs on everything - a PC laptop is a Linux laptop
I would be cautious with this advice -- hardware compatibility is getting better all the time but is not perfect or guaranteed .. for example, until recently, certain common laptop wireless adapters would not work with Linux. This stuff is moving all the time, so before I purchased any particular laptop model I would google for success stories and gotchas. That said, I bet if you can manage to root a phone, you can install Linux yourself. Good luck!
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:38 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've run linux on my laptops for years and my path into this has been to roll my own -- buy a laptop with a windows license and install linux alongside it. (much as I'm not into windows, it is the best steam launcher in the world.) However, bear in mind....
Linux runs on everything - a PC laptop is a Linux laptop
I would be cautious with this advice -- hardware compatibility is getting better all the time but is not perfect or guaranteed .. for example, until recently, certain common laptop wireless adapters would not work with Linux. This stuff is moving all the time, so before I purchased any particular laptop model I would google for success stories and gotchas. That said, I bet if you can manage to root a phone, you can install Linux yourself. Good luck!
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:38 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you didn't know, many modern Chromebooks let you install full-fledged Linux applications while using ChromeOS, without needing to dual boot or anything. Here is a support article from Google about it, including a link to a list of supported laptops. A search term for this functionality is "Crostini support".
posted by bright flowers at 3:38 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bright flowers at 3:38 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
My work laptop is a Dell XPS 13 (there are several variants, which have slightly different combinations of hardware elements). I'm generally happy with its performance and compatibility, but 1) it's pretty expensive; I only have one because it's owned by my employer, and 2) it has an overheating problem, because some galaxy brain designer put all the heat vents on the bottom. I now have a lap desk with built-in fans which makes the problem go away, but it's unpleasant to use anywhere the desk isn't.
posted by confluency at 3:41 PM on February 16, 2020
posted by confluency at 3:41 PM on February 16, 2020
mbrubeck is onto something there! The XPS 13 has been a perennially great machine for years -- that's my laptop right now. Those trim little bezels are really something.
If you buy one without Linux preinstalled, be sure you get the exact model number and google for success stories, because different subvariants of the XPS 13 used different wireless adapters, even during the same year. I think they're all supported right now, but it never hurts to measure twice and cut once.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:42 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you buy one without Linux preinstalled, be sure you get the exact model number and google for success stories, because different subvariants of the XPS 13 used different wireless adapters, even during the same year. I think they're all supported right now, but it never hurts to measure twice and cut once.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:42 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
confluency is also onto something with the Thinkpad X series ... My pre-XPS13 laptop was an X230 and it was a wonderful tank of a machine, used it for seven years, upgraded every piece of it, and Linux ran effortlessly on it.
I think at its smallest you're getting a 12.5" screen though and until the most recent models the body is old-school chunky. Also depending on the model you may not get t-bolt ports or usb3 or the latest tricksy business, if that's important.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:46 PM on February 16, 2020
I think at its smallest you're getting a 12.5" screen though and until the most recent models the body is old-school chunky. Also depending on the model you may not get t-bolt ports or usb3 or the latest tricksy business, if that's important.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:46 PM on February 16, 2020
One last thing: check how much memory you can put in the exact submodel you're looking at, especially if you're getting an older refurbished machine. Doubling the memory in an old machine can make a big difference! But there are some dud models which came with RAM welded to the motherboard, and/or have an unfortunate limitation in the type of additional or replacement RAM that is compatible, so you can't upgrade the memory past a certain point, which is a bummer.
posted by confluency at 3:49 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by confluency at 3:49 PM on February 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
OK, last last thing: it's entirely feasible to use only Linux on the desktop, as long as you don't need to run any software that only runs on Windows (and even then you can try using Wine or a VM or a dual boot if you absolutely have to). Generic word processing, email and music should be fine (not sure about specific streaming services, or staying 100% compatible with other people's MS Word documents). I've been using only Linux for about twenty years -- but I'm a software developer, so YMM very much V.
posted by confluency at 3:56 PM on February 16, 2020
posted by confluency at 3:56 PM on February 16, 2020
If I can get a little philosophical here...
Linux itself is corporate and has been for years. The plumbing like the kernel and core libraries comes from major companies like Red Hat, Intel, Oracle, even Microsoft. Many of the major distributions are corporate sponsored. Using Linux will not get you away from that.
Instead I recommend learning to be flexible with what you do on your computer. Try to use software that isn't tied to a specific OS, and minimize your dependence on cloud services or be able to switch between them without too much hassle.
A weird analogy would be, say you're sick of going to Starbucks all the time because it's corporate. I'm suggesting that you wean yourself off of Frappuccinos (R) and instead learn to appreciate plain black coffee. Then it doesn't matter if you keep going to Starbucks because you know you can switch to any old place that has coffee, or make your own at home, and it won't matter.
posted by bright flowers at 4:01 PM on February 16, 2020
Linux itself is corporate and has been for years. The plumbing like the kernel and core libraries comes from major companies like Red Hat, Intel, Oracle, even Microsoft. Many of the major distributions are corporate sponsored. Using Linux will not get you away from that.
Instead I recommend learning to be flexible with what you do on your computer. Try to use software that isn't tied to a specific OS, and minimize your dependence on cloud services or be able to switch between them without too much hassle.
A weird analogy would be, say you're sick of going to Starbucks all the time because it's corporate. I'm suggesting that you wean yourself off of Frappuccinos (R) and instead learn to appreciate plain black coffee. Then it doesn't matter if you keep going to Starbucks because you know you can switch to any old place that has coffee, or make your own at home, and it won't matter.
posted by bright flowers at 4:01 PM on February 16, 2020
Response by poster: Thank you for everything so far!
So if I ordered that refurbished Dell XPS 13 which mbrubeck linked to upthread, I'd have to load Linux on it myself (which should be possible because I googled the model+Ubuntu and stuff came up), which is probably okay but: is there a good forum you guys can recommend where I could ask for help if I got stuck? Since back-and-forth tech-advice is presumably frowned upon here :)
I also wonder if there's a way to find out if the Dell XPS 13 9360 has heat vents on the bottom...
posted by hungrytiger at 4:03 PM on February 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
So if I ordered that refurbished Dell XPS 13 which mbrubeck linked to upthread, I'd have to load Linux on it myself (which should be possible because I googled the model+Ubuntu and stuff came up), which is probably okay but: is there a good forum you guys can recommend where I could ask for help if I got stuck? Since back-and-forth tech-advice is presumably frowned upon here :)
I also wonder if there's a way to find out if the Dell XPS 13 9360 has heat vents on the bottom...
posted by hungrytiger at 4:03 PM on February 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'd avoid older XPS 13s. Many of them had a problem with the battery swelling, which is a safety hazard and can deform the keyboard. If this happens to you, the battery will need to be removed and you'll need to get a replacement. As far as I know, Dell doesn't make new batteries after a while, so maybe you'll need to either get on a waiting list to buy a used battery from them, or buy a third-party battery that might have the wrong specifications for your system, or have sat around on a shelf for years, or who knows what. YMMV on your comfort level doing that.
Source: I have an older XPS 13, older than a 9360 admittedly, where I took out the battery after it swelled and now only use it when it's plugged in. Great computer otherwise though.
posted by bright flowers at 4:13 PM on February 16, 2020
Source: I have an older XPS 13, older than a 9360 admittedly, where I took out the battery after it swelled and now only use it when it's plugged in. Great computer otherwise though.
posted by bright flowers at 4:13 PM on February 16, 2020
Sorry, I should have said it deforms the touchpad, not the keyboard. Not that it really matters.
posted by bright flowers at 4:20 PM on February 16, 2020
posted by bright flowers at 4:20 PM on February 16, 2020
The last time I installed Linux on a Dell computer, I discovered it had something called "secure boot" that messes with trying to install a different operating system. It can be disabled! But it took me the longest time to figure out that it existed, and that I had to disable it.
This is Dell's guide to dual-booting Linux and Windows on your PC, if it helps.
(Good luck! I think Linux is a mighty fine operating system.)
posted by Jeanne at 5:21 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is Dell's guide to dual-booting Linux and Windows on your PC, if it helps.
(Good luck! I think Linux is a mighty fine operating system.)
posted by Jeanne at 5:21 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure if you can root a phone, you can install Linux. I first installed Linux (Fedora) on a laptop in 2007-ish alongside Vista. About a year later, I got a new laptop triple booting Fedora, Kubuntu (I was curious) and Vista and all able to access a common data partition. I had a "tutor" who helped me a lot, but even back then the internet was a treasure trove. Linux has come a long way since then. There are so many friendly places on the internet to get advice these days. I guess I'm saying I know you'll do fine. Good luck!
(now I want to install Linux on my laptop)
posted by kathrynm at 6:41 PM on February 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
(now I want to install Linux on my laptop)
posted by kathrynm at 6:41 PM on February 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Don't limit your Dell explorations to the XPS 13. I have a Latitude 13-7835 I bought last year...about the same dimensions, less price. I've been messing about with a dual boot comprised of Windows 10/Ubuntu Budgie, and am literally a few minutes away from removing Windows. This is the first laptop and Linux combination I've ever had where the trackpad works as expected out of the box. I'll be installing a Windows virtual machine because I have some software that requires Windows, but otherwise I'm sold on Linux (at last).
There is a lots of advice out there for installing Linux. Using the Windows installed on the laptop you can use Rufus to "burn" a copy your chosen Linux install iso file to a flash drive. Reboot and hit F12 to boot from the flash drive, and install from there (or try out your chosen Linux while booted from the USB drive).
posted by lhauser at 7:06 PM on February 16, 2020
There is a lots of advice out there for installing Linux. Using the Windows installed on the laptop you can use Rufus to "burn" a copy your chosen Linux install iso file to a flash drive. Reboot and hit F12 to boot from the flash drive, and install from there (or try out your chosen Linux while booted from the USB drive).
posted by lhauser at 7:06 PM on February 16, 2020
I've been considering getting a Surface Go (10"). People seem to have positive things to say about running Linux on it: SlashGear, infofuge, and there's a SurfaceLinux Reddit.
Price is about $400 right now. Haven't quite decided if that's the right price point for what I want or not, but I'm with you on finding something small but usable.
posted by asperity at 9:19 AM on February 17, 2020
Price is about $400 right now. Haven't quite decided if that's the right price point for what I want or not, but I'm with you on finding something small but usable.
posted by asperity at 9:19 AM on February 17, 2020
(Wait, the Surface Go would be another $100 for the keyboard, which is annoying. $500 total.)
posted by asperity at 9:30 AM on February 17, 2020
posted by asperity at 9:30 AM on February 17, 2020
If you're going to go with Linux Mint (which I can only recommend, as it's a fine and newcomer-friendly distro, suitable for most users and uses) there is an official forum. Here's the installation guide.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:09 PM on February 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:09 PM on February 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
is there a good forum you guys can recommend where I could ask for help if I got stuck?
Whichever distribution you try probably has its own forum. Also, most distributions fall into one of a few families: for example, Ubuntu, Mint, Pop! OS (which I just learned about from that mathowie tweet) and many others are all based directly or indirectly on Debian releases and thus are closely related. Because related distributions have a lot of overlap in terms of basic architecture and usage patterns, that means that even if you use e.g. Mint or Debian, you can often find useful information in the Ubuntu forums and vice versa.
Also, some of your questions might have to do with general linux/unix things rather than distribution-specific issues, in which case there's no end of relevant forums and question sites to turn to. In general, whenever you're stuck I'd recommend first googling your question and seeing what information comes up, because chances are very good you won't run into anything that hasn't been addressed online before. Pay attention to the sites that come up and seem to have the most helpful info and the most patient answerers, and use those sites if you do have a question that needs personalized help.
Since back-and-forth tech-advice is presumably frowned upon here :)
I can't speak for the mods, but I think there's a difference between back-and-forth on tech advice to help pin down an issue, and back-and-forth on emotional issues that just turns into a fight. I'd default to using other sites for Linux help because there's probably a larger user base, but I don't see any reason not to ask here if needed.
posted by trig at 2:00 PM on February 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Whichever distribution you try probably has its own forum. Also, most distributions fall into one of a few families: for example, Ubuntu, Mint, Pop! OS (which I just learned about from that mathowie tweet) and many others are all based directly or indirectly on Debian releases and thus are closely related. Because related distributions have a lot of overlap in terms of basic architecture and usage patterns, that means that even if you use e.g. Mint or Debian, you can often find useful information in the Ubuntu forums and vice versa.
Also, some of your questions might have to do with general linux/unix things rather than distribution-specific issues, in which case there's no end of relevant forums and question sites to turn to. In general, whenever you're stuck I'd recommend first googling your question and seeing what information comes up, because chances are very good you won't run into anything that hasn't been addressed online before. Pay attention to the sites that come up and seem to have the most helpful info and the most patient answerers, and use those sites if you do have a question that needs personalized help.
Since back-and-forth tech-advice is presumably frowned upon here :)
I can't speak for the mods, but I think there's a difference between back-and-forth on tech advice to help pin down an issue, and back-and-forth on emotional issues that just turns into a fight. I'd default to using other sites for Linux help because there's probably a larger user base, but I don't see any reason not to ask here if needed.
posted by trig at 2:00 PM on February 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I like my little Asus Zenbook UX390UA-XH74-BL. It was about a thousand bucks two years ago. It's small, has a keyboard that feels pretty good for an ultra-slim (it's way better than my late 2018 Macbook Pro's keyboard), and aside from a little wonkiness with the volume control when using the built-in speakers (headphone jack works fine), runs Xubuntu wonderfully.
I'd look for a one of those.
posted by straw at 3:24 PM on February 17, 2020
I'd look for a one of those.
posted by straw at 3:24 PM on February 17, 2020
They seem to be entirely out of stock, but the PineBook Pro seems right up your street.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:21 PM on February 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:21 PM on February 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
The cheaper and less powerful regular PineBook isn't out of stock and has the 11.6'' screen as requested.
Older Lenovo Thinkpads like the X60 and X200 can run 100% free software so they're safe choices for hardware compatibility.
posted by Bangaioh at 1:07 PM on February 18, 2020
Older Lenovo Thinkpads like the X60 and X200 can run 100% free software so they're safe choices for hardware compatibility.
posted by Bangaioh at 1:07 PM on February 18, 2020
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