What is the warm of heavy?
December 9, 2019 4:57 PM Subscribe
This is a question my teenage daughter asked, and it is driving me crazy because I can't find enough synonyms for what she means.
Quite simply, if you use the words cold, warm and hot as the formula, what word represents the middle between light and heavy? Middleweight just seems so basic.
The English language has words for so many things, but the concept of an in-between weight is something that escapes me...
Any walking Thesauruses out there?
Hefty?
posted by scratch at 5:04 PM on December 9, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by scratch at 5:04 PM on December 9, 2019 [12 favorites]
That's an interesting question. In English, I can't think of such a word. You may have to go with a phrase, so in the spirit of her question, what is the shortest such phrase? Maybe the thing has "no heft"?
edit: scratch, my High School physics teacher used to talk about things like iron, lead, and gold as having "heft".
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:05 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
edit: scratch, my High School physics teacher used to talk about things like iron, lead, and gold as having "heft".
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:05 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
In boxing, "welter" falls between light and heavy, but it doesn't look like it's a general purpose adjective.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:08 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:08 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
weighty, having heft, wieldy, robust. Possibly even balanced.
Heft is the nearest one. To me, a tool or utensil should have enough heft to remain wieldy, yet be heavy enough not to be insubstantial. A spoon without pleasing heft is not a joy to use.
posted by scruss at 5:13 PM on December 9, 2019
Heft is the nearest one. To me, a tool or utensil should have enough heft to remain wieldy, yet be heavy enough not to be insubstantial. A spoon without pleasing heft is not a joy to use.
posted by scruss at 5:13 PM on December 9, 2019
Middleweight is not just basic. It usually refers to a boxer's or wrestler's weight class. I might use medium, knowing that medium can mean many more things than the interval between light and heavy.
Light and heavy are also used to refer to grades of oil, nuclear materials, etc. Light and heavy are not as exclusive in meaning without the nouns they modify, as are cold, warm and hot. (In German, to be "warm" is to be gay!)
As often in language, looking for equivalent models among words in a given language can be futile. Hairy vs smooth. Now a days, male vs female.
"Does God exist?" Tricky use of language, leading folks on both side of the question to twist and argue.
posted by tmdonahue at 5:14 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Light and heavy are also used to refer to grades of oil, nuclear materials, etc. Light and heavy are not as exclusive in meaning without the nouns they modify, as are cold, warm and hot. (In German, to be "warm" is to be gay!)
As often in language, looking for equivalent models among words in a given language can be futile. Hairy vs smooth. Now a days, male vs female.
"Does God exist?" Tricky use of language, leading folks on both side of the question to twist and argue.
posted by tmdonahue at 5:14 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
I don't always think of heavy as the opposite end of the spectrum from light. 'Heavy' and 'light' seem to me to be sensitive to context in a way that cold/ warm/ hot aren't, so what if heavy approximately equated to warm, and after that came something like... unwieldy, or cumbersome, or gross - depending on context.
posted by Everydayville at 5:14 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Everydayville at 5:14 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
I would propose that "light" not occupy the far end of the scale. I would suggest weightless, light, and heavy.
posted by oxisos at 5:16 PM on December 9, 2019 [20 favorites]
posted by oxisos at 5:16 PM on December 9, 2019 [20 favorites]
Maybe heavy is the warm of heavy, and there’s no hot.
YEAH, I SAID IT.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 5:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [10 favorites]
YEAH, I SAID IT.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 5:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [10 favorites]
I don't think warm is the midpoint between cold and hot, but it does fall between them. It seems like the requirement is just something that falls between light and heavy.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:19 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:19 PM on December 9, 2019
Expected weight.
Light means, to me, less than expected and heavy, more than expected for something similar
posted by AugustWest at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Light means, to me, less than expected and heavy, more than expected for something similar
posted by AugustWest at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
In boxing, "welter" falls between light and heavy
And to expand on that, in dairy cream, "whipping" falls between light and heavy. There you go.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [8 favorites]
And to expand on that, in dairy cream, "whipping" falls between light and heavy. There you go.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [8 favorites]
"Normal"
Light and heavy are not a continuum. They are simply descriptors of opposite nature.
posted by humboldt32 at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Light and heavy are not a continuum. They are simply descriptors of opposite nature.
posted by humboldt32 at 5:22 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Maybe heavy is the warm of heavy
I agree with this and would like to now know the room temperature of weight.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:28 PM on December 9, 2019 [7 favorites]
I dunno if I lifted up a cat that was neither heavy nor light I'd say it was a "solid" cat.
posted by some loser at 5:28 PM on December 9, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by some loser at 5:28 PM on December 9, 2019 [11 favorites]
“Midweight” — as opposed to middleweight — is often used to describe fabrics and typefaces, among other things.
posted by D.Billy at 5:33 PM on December 9, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by D.Billy at 5:33 PM on December 9, 2019 [15 favorites]
Back to heft and hefty. Hefty usually means something like heavy. But it also implies heavy to lift. SO by one theory, if you can lift it at all, and it is not impossible to lift then being "hefty" it is a middle value. Maybe your daughter should specify her end points. How much do heavy and light things weigh, in her lexicon?
scruss: A spoon without pleasing heft is not a joy to use.
As long as the heft is not primarily in the handle such that it flips out of the bowl when you sit down on the couch.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:34 PM on December 9, 2019
scruss: A spoon without pleasing heft is not a joy to use.
As long as the heft is not primarily in the handle such that it flips out of the bowl when you sit down on the couch.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:34 PM on December 9, 2019
I thought the same thing as D.Billy - midweight
posted by brilliantine at 5:37 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by brilliantine at 5:37 PM on December 9, 2019
Response by poster: I considered "Just right" from the 3 bears as a cop-out.
Also, depending on context, which I frankly don't have any to help out here, "manageable" could work. The words, "Light," and, "Heavy," have several synonyms. In-between those weights doesn't seem to. Midweight/middleweight seem to fit. We seem to say "not too heavy" or "not exactly light, not too heavy" but there isn't a word for it per se. Or is there?
I bet you there's a word outside of English for it. Probably something in Japanese that is perfect.
posted by Chuffy at 5:59 PM on December 9, 2019
Also, depending on context, which I frankly don't have any to help out here, "manageable" could work. The words, "Light," and, "Heavy," have several synonyms. In-between those weights doesn't seem to. Midweight/middleweight seem to fit. We seem to say "not too heavy" or "not exactly light, not too heavy" but there isn't a word for it per se. Or is there?
I bet you there's a word outside of English for it. Probably something in Japanese that is perfect.
posted by Chuffy at 5:59 PM on December 9, 2019
In terms of color, we say light, medium, dark.
Is there a reason why "medium" doesn't also qualify here?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:03 PM on December 9, 2019
Is there a reason why "medium" doesn't also qualify here?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:03 PM on December 9, 2019
middling
/ˈmidliNG/
adjective
moderate or average in size, amount, or rank.
"the village contained no poor households but a lot of middling ones"
posted by bleep at 6:25 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
/ˈmidliNG/
adjective
moderate or average in size, amount, or rank.
"the village contained no poor households but a lot of middling ones"
posted by bleep at 6:25 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
The only thing I can think of is "modest" or "of modest weight." But I think that there isn't a single English word that fits. You can certainly come up with a lot of phrases that would work, though.
Smart question from your daughter, though. Asking good questions is actually a rarer skill than supplying good answers, in my (usually wrong) opinion.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
Smart question from your daughter, though. Asking good questions is actually a rarer skill than supplying good answers, in my (usually wrong) opinion.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
Agree with the above that warm isn't a midpoint. I'd suggest temperate as a more neutral waypoint between hot and cold.
similarly, manageable seems like a similar neutral point between light and heavy.
posted by noloveforned at 6:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
similarly, manageable seems like a similar neutral point between light and heavy.
posted by noloveforned at 6:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think the root of this is a combination of density (expected weight for the volume) and cumbersome (ease of manoeuvring something of a given known density).
So, you have situations where an object is dense but not cumbersome (gold bars), or something with low density but high cumbersomeness (large metal tube coat rack), and the variations in between.
posted by porpoise at 6:41 PM on December 9, 2019
So, you have situations where an object is dense but not cumbersome (gold bars), or something with low density but high cumbersomeness (large metal tube coat rack), and the variations in between.
posted by porpoise at 6:41 PM on December 9, 2019
Warm is Just Right because too hot and too cold will kill you.
While too heavy will kill you, "too light" rarely will. The optimal weight for most things is zero. Of course, in reality many things have a "correct" weight - a potato that's "too light" might be dried out or rotten on the inside. But that's just using weight as a proxy or an indicator for another desirable property - when you are carrying home a sack of potatoes, the optimal weight would again be zero.
The only real exception I can think of to this is coats or blankets - there is such a thing as "too heavy, just right, too light" in that context. But of course, that's because those correspond to hot, warm, and cold!
An excellent question, but not one that will likely have a satisfying answer.
posted by five toed sloth at 6:43 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
While too heavy will kill you, "too light" rarely will. The optimal weight for most things is zero. Of course, in reality many things have a "correct" weight - a potato that's "too light" might be dried out or rotten on the inside. But that's just using weight as a proxy or an indicator for another desirable property - when you are carrying home a sack of potatoes, the optimal weight would again be zero.
The only real exception I can think of to this is coats or blankets - there is such a thing as "too heavy, just right, too light" in that context. But of course, that's because those correspond to hot, warm, and cold!
An excellent question, but not one that will likely have a satisfying answer.
posted by five toed sloth at 6:43 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Chonk. not hecc'in chonk, not smol, just a chonk.
posted by Pastor of Muppets at 6:50 PM on December 9, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by Pastor of Muppets at 6:50 PM on December 9, 2019 [15 favorites]
Warm isn’t in the middle - it leans toward hot. The middle would be between warm and cool.
My Roget’s thesaurus has a section on heaviness and a section on lightness, but nothing in between. Most of the words on heaviness don’t seem to me to be very precisely differentiated. For instance, I’m not sure whether weighty is heavier than leaden. The exceptions are overweight and obese, since those have medical definitions, problematic though they may be.
posted by FencingGal at 6:51 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
My Roget’s thesaurus has a section on heaviness and a section on lightness, but nothing in between. Most of the words on heaviness don’t seem to me to be very precisely differentiated. For instance, I’m not sure whether weighty is heavier than leaden. The exceptions are overweight and obese, since those have medical definitions, problematic though they may be.
posted by FencingGal at 6:51 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
Solid.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:55 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:55 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
I argue that warm is not the center point of cold and hot - tepid is.
Cold : Tepid : Warm : Hot :: Light : Average : Weighted : Heavy
posted by Mizu at 7:18 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
Cold : Tepid : Warm : Hot :: Light : Average : Weighted : Heavy
posted by Mizu at 7:18 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
I think of units of measure used to denote weight such as the pound, which is based (as I understand it) on the poundstone, a stone (actually a sort of fossilized sea creature like a sea biscuit) of uniform size equivalent to a loaf of bread. Other body based units of measure: the cubit, the inch, the foot, the stone, hands. I think discussion of detail related to body size become common.
posted by effluvia at 7:28 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by effluvia at 7:28 PM on December 9, 2019
Buoyant, weightless, light, heavy. They’re both on the same side of the scale.
posted by clew at 7:29 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by clew at 7:29 PM on December 9, 2019
cold - lukewarm - warm - hot
light - substantial - hefty - heavy
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 7:30 PM on December 9, 2019 [6 favorites]
light - substantial - hefty - heavy
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 7:30 PM on December 9, 2019 [6 favorites]
flimsy is the tepid of heavy
posted by moonmilk at 7:31 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by moonmilk at 7:31 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Medium is often the default for the midpoint in a range of answers.
Light, medium, dark
White, grey, black
Hot, warm or medium or cool, cold
Bright or shiny, medium, dark or dull
Smooth or slick, medium, rough or textured
High or tall, medium, low or short
Heavy, balanced or medium, light or lightweight
posted by TrishaU at 7:33 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Light, medium, dark
White, grey, black
Hot, warm or medium or cool, cold
Bright or shiny, medium, dark or dull
Smooth or slick, medium, rough or textured
High or tall, medium, low or short
Heavy, balanced or medium, light or lightweight
posted by TrishaU at 7:33 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Continuing on with body related weight descriptions:
Hand held camera
carry on luggage
take out (portable) food
posted by effluvia at 7:38 PM on December 9, 2019
Hand held camera
carry on luggage
take out (portable) food
posted by effluvia at 7:38 PM on December 9, 2019
cold : tepid : warm : hot :: insubstantial : light : heavy : massive
posted by flabdablet at 7:39 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 7:39 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
The middle would be between warm and cool.
tepid
posted by StickyCarpet at 8:16 PM on December 9, 2019
tepid
posted by StickyCarpet at 8:16 PM on December 9, 2019
Chubby
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:18 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:18 PM on December 9, 2019
Contractor grade
posted by unknown knowns at 11:13 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by unknown knowns at 11:13 PM on December 9, 2019
Average
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:10 AM on December 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:10 AM on December 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
Meh
light, meh, heavy
cold, meh, hot
calm, meh, windy
short, meh, tall
posted by zengargoyle at 2:27 AM on December 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
light, meh, heavy
cold, meh, hot
calm, meh, windy
short, meh, tall
posted by zengargoyle at 2:27 AM on December 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
Even, balanced, par, or medium-weight. Think of a see-saw when it’s evenly balanced.
You could also look at terms for sweaters or blankets, they usually distinguish between different weights.
posted by sallybrown at 4:41 AM on December 10, 2019
You could also look at terms for sweaters or blankets, they usually distinguish between different weights.
posted by sallybrown at 4:41 AM on December 10, 2019
Agree warm is not the midpoint and I’m surprised no one mentioned cool. In my mind it should be:
Cold, cool, warm, hot
You could also add in tepid, room temperature, lukewarm, and other words depending on context.
It’s obviously not a one to one comparison but then it could be something like:
Weightless, light, heavy, and then whatever is heavier than heavy (heaviest? - but then I would want to make hot hottest)
posted by sillysally at 10:18 AM on December 10, 2019
Cold, cool, warm, hot
You could also add in tepid, room temperature, lukewarm, and other words depending on context.
It’s obviously not a one to one comparison but then it could be something like:
Weightless, light, heavy, and then whatever is heavier than heavy (heaviest? - but then I would want to make hot hottest)
posted by sillysally at 10:18 AM on December 10, 2019
Light, average, heavy...think of walnuts. Most produce is graded according to size, packed according to size. Without getting into human "beauty standards, (prejudices-cliff edge,) sizing is necessary in commerce, to calculate shipping weight, quantities, guarantees, recipes.
posted by Oyéah at 10:30 AM on December 10, 2019
posted by Oyéah at 10:30 AM on December 10, 2019
Response by poster: I think an intriguing part of this question is the amount of words we have describing temperature and the relative dearth of words that indicate variations in weight by comparison. There are a lot of words describing weight, but we don't communicate with a lot of adjectives. Maybe this is because our exposure to weights is very specific (how much does that weigh? x kg or x lbs) or we have to take into account physical properties of a person or thing to make a determination of where it fits on the weight scale...that's heavy to a 3 year-old, that's light to a bodybuilder...
Temperature, on the other hand, is more consistently experiential - that 3 y/o and bodybuilder will more often than not agree that it is hot or cool or warm (with the obvious outliers of snow shorts guy and menopausal mom), so maybe we have more words to describe temperature...
I'm pretty sure the kid is smarter than me, regardless. She has no idea I'm ruminating about this.
posted by Chuffy at 11:58 AM on December 10, 2019
Temperature, on the other hand, is more consistently experiential - that 3 y/o and bodybuilder will more often than not agree that it is hot or cool or warm (with the obvious outliers of snow shorts guy and menopausal mom), so maybe we have more words to describe temperature...
I'm pretty sure the kid is smarter than me, regardless. She has no idea I'm ruminating about this.
posted by Chuffy at 11:58 AM on December 10, 2019
Light, soft around the middle, pudgy, husky, heavy.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:22 PM on December 10, 2019
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:22 PM on December 10, 2019
Though light and heavy characterize an intrinsic property—the weight of something is as intrinsic as it gets—etymologically the words are about how easy they are to move. Something heavy is literally something that must be heaved; something light can be levered or elevated, can levitate, etc., if looking at cognate words. However, I don’t think etymology helps much here—what’s a word for something that doesn’t levitate but can be moved without heaving? balanced? mobile? Those don’t seem right.
Because I’m a sucker for nonce words and kind of an asshole neologist* when I’m off the clock, I would probably just say “lukeweight” and then roll my eyes if anyone asked me about it—“it’s like lukewarm, but for weight, duh.” I’ll probably start using that tonight! You never know, maybe it’ll stick.
*the better term for this, appropriately, is protologist
posted by miles per flower at 8:16 AM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
Because I’m a sucker for nonce words and kind of an asshole neologist* when I’m off the clock, I would probably just say “lukeweight” and then roll my eyes if anyone asked me about it—“it’s like lukewarm, but for weight, duh.” I’ll probably start using that tonight! You never know, maybe it’ll stick.
*the better term for this, appropriately, is protologist
posted by miles per flower at 8:16 AM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have found "substantial" a useful adjective in this kind of case.
posted by doift at 9:20 PM on December 12, 2019
posted by doift at 9:20 PM on December 12, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ninazer0 at 5:03 PM on December 9, 2019