Comments on: My first trip to Europe!

Question: My first trip to Europe!

ersatzkat — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:21:50 -0800

Travelling to Italy in May - looking for advice on Venice, Bologna, and Florence.

We're taking a honeymoon trip in mid-May - flying to Bologna, then planning a couple days in Venice (and seeing Murano), a couple in Florence, a couple-three in Bologna then flying home.

I've looked at older ItalyThreads, and found some useful links for hotel reservations, but I was hoping to solicit additional advice based on personal experiences. Restaurants, hotels, bars you loved? Some clever shopping district a guidebook might not mention? (I love paper, leather journals, glass beads (I make my own jewelry), scarves and shawls.)

Did you find the trains easy to use? I'd like to just rent a car to avoid the schlepping of luggage from here to there, but I understand it's wicked expensive. Anything that you can tell me that Lonely Planet might not, I'd greatly appreciate it.

By: borkingchikapa

borkingchikapa — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:26:14 -0800

Don't stay IN Venice, there are plenty of nicer, cheaper hotels that aren't on the islands. The architecture and history are nice, but it's a repulsive tourist hole devoid of culture.

Other than that, Italy is wonderful. Have fun.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:34:56 -0800

Trains in that part of the world are super-easy and convenient (I used to take the Venice-Florence Eurostar every couple of months, and it was great). Remember that even if you do rent a car, it won't do you any good in Venice -- no cars at all on the islands.

Do you have a price range for the hotels?

If they're still there, in Venice, Alle Testiere and Vivaldi were my all-time favorite non-touristy places. Alle Testiere is right by Campo S. Maria Formosa; for Vivaldi, cross the Rialto Bridge away from S. Marco, turn left on the little shop-filled street that runs to the Frari church and it's 5-10min. down that way. (Get the seafood risotto. Oh my god, I miss that risotto.) (And Google just turned up the address: Calle della Maddonetta 1457, San Polo)

For bars, go sit at the counter at Florian -- it's much cheaper than sitting at the tables, it's a wonderful space, and the bartenders/baristas there ("barman", actually in Italian) are wonderful and fluent in English. On the non-San Marco side of the Rialto, there's also Do Mori, which is supposedly the oldest bar in the city and is wonderful.

You should also try to get gelato at Da Nico and sit outside on their deck, right on one of the main canals. You'll have a view of the water and the Palladio churches; it was one of my favorite spots to spend some time.

Beads (especially Murano glass) and shawls will be everywhere. The Rialto markets are best Tues-Sat and are definitely worth checking out one morning.

I'm jealous!

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:36:36 -0800

On non-preview: *Do* stay in Venice. May is the perfect season for it -- it's not totally overrun by tourists, and the merchants and hotel owners are still happy to see foreigners. You'll be fine.

/biased advice from a girl who made her living as a Venice tourguide for a year...

(Actually, feel free to email me if you'd like -- I haven't been back in a while, but I'm happy to answer what questions I can.)

By: Sara Anne

Sara Anne — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:47:27 -0800

I stayed at the Locanda Orchidea ( you need to scroll down for it) ages ago. It was not fancy, but really neat, with huge windows and the bathroom shower was just a huge room with a showerhead poking out of the wall. Florence in general really fun for Dante nerds like me. Follow the plaques around and eat eat eat.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:48:37 -0800

I just stumbled across the Slow Food Northern Italy article list when I was looking up one of those bars above; looks like they have some great off-the-beaten-path (and not in the Lonely Planet way!) info.

By: handful of rain

handful of rain — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:30:49 -0800

The Orto dei Medici hotel in Florence, recommended in a previous Italy thread, also gets my rave review. Very good quality room and service for a reasonable price. When in Bologna, do the big walk up the hill (don't wimp out and drive) to visit the Madonna in the church up above the city. It's a covered walkway under 500-some arches all the way to the top, and you'll be rewarded with a peaceful, quiet view of the city. Then get gelatto on the way back down!

My husband spent a month in Bologna for work last fall, and I joined him for a week in Florence with a day trip to Bologna at the end of his time there. Loved every minute.

By: leafwoman

leafwoman — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:55:20 -0800

Read the new Grisham (if you are a Grisham fan) much is set in Bologna and it will psych you up for that town.

Stay in Venice. Pensione Accademia Villa Maravege was really good and just steps from the Accademia bridge and boat stop. We had a totally incredible Thanksgiving at Corte Sconta, off the beaten path.

By: zpousman

zpousman — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:57:03 -0800

I'll be in Venice end of may. I've been there twice before. Email is in my profile if you'd like to meet up. I think that I'm there the week of May 23-26.

By: leafwoman

leafwoman — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:05:49 -0800

Oh... and when you are in Venice, if you are a fan of a little champagne with your meals, try the Prosecco, it is a local grape that is turned into a very good sparkly! (Dry, not sweet and served by the pitcher in some restaurants.)

By: missmobtown

missmobtown — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:46:01 -0800

I would cast my vote for staying in Venice. When I was there in October, I stayed in Dosoduro at this place. The location was perfect--all the sights were easily accessible either on foot or via vaporetto, and I felt like I was living in a real neighborhood rather than a tourist hole. I was thoroughly charmed by everything I saw and did--hope you are too!

You'll never be bored in Florence--I don't feel like I have to point out the obvious tourist attractions, but if you do feel the need to get out of the city for the day, San Miniato al Monte is close by and beautiful.

By: lois1950

lois1950 — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:24:45 -0800

Ahhh, Venice... I was there for the first time last April-May and found that despite all the hype, it really is one of the most amazing cities I've ever visited. It's a whole other place at night when day tourists are gone, particularly mid-week. We stayed on the other side of Venice near the Jewish ghetto, in a wonderful place called Ai Mori d'Oriente (not inexpensive, but wonderful, quiet location, 30 minute walk to San Marco, close to vaporettos, etc. and beautiful rooms.) The 'Secret Tour of the Doges Palace' was fun. Venice at night in a rain squall is a unique experience; Piazza San Marco with dueling orchestras and people dancing in a foot of water is sublime.
Florence: a museum not to miss (closed Wednesdays) is La Specola, the natural history museum of the University of Florence...
Escape from Firenze for an afternoon take a crazy bus ride (#4? #7? can't remember) to Fiesole and wander around. The archeological site and the attached museum there is surprisingly interesting.

By: beelzbubba

beelzbubba — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:48:26 -0800

I was not fortunate to stay in Venice, so I'll not comment there. I found Bologna to be a depressing area, maybe it was just me. May is the best time to avoid the crowds. If you want to see Italy, rent a car. Check with Sixt or Auto Europe. Should be able to get a weeks worth with unlimited miles for about $350-$380.

We rented an apartment in a villa. The first time through ItalianVillas based in Norwalk, CT. They check out all the properties and can make personal recommendations if you call them. The second time, we arranged our agriturismo through the proprietors themselves, staying in Camuccia, just outside Cortona.

You love leather journals? You must go to Pienza in Tuscany. Besides having the most wonderful fresh pecorino, the town has two leather goods shops that specialize in journals. And you'll be a short drive to Montepulciano, which has the (imo) second best wine in Italy, the amazing Brunello di Montalcino. (The best is the Barolos of the Piedmont. Best meal of my life was in the Langhe, where Barolo hails from, at the Albergo Ristorante Giardino "da Felicin".) Assisi is a delight. So was Orvieto. Check to see when the monthly antiques market is in Arezzo (fiera antiqueria?). I think it is the last Saturday of the month and first Sunday of the next. Arezzo is a short drive from Florence.

We are vegetarian and found no problem finding excellent restaurants everywhere. If you aren't vegetarian, you'll have 100 times more choices than we did.

There were special ones in Florence and Greve-in-Chianti, in Arezzo and Cortona, in Perugia and Orvieto. Passable in Pitigliano and Siena and better than that in Assisi.

But here's the thing about food in Italy. We stopped often at the local version of Wal-Mart (that is, food & clothing and furniture shopping under one roof) to pick up food for the villa. They are cooperatives--the big ones called Iper-coop (as in hyper-coop) with full service food bars where they make fresh pasta for you and a decent wine selection.

You'll find that time will go too fast. But you'll have a memorable honeymoon. Have a great trip!

By: naxosaxur

naxosaxur — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:17:59 -0800

>>We stayed on the other side of Venice near the Jewish ghetto, in a wonderful place called Ai Mori d'Oriente (not inexpensive, but wonderful, quiet location, 30 minute walk to San Marco, close to vaporettos, etc. and beautiful rooms.)

i stayed in that same hotel, too!! in july 2004 for 3 nights. it was lovely because the neighboorhood was so quiet and civil and clean, and we spent most of our time participating in activities in the Jewish Ghetto, so it was perfect for us.

the rooms and facilities are very clean and totally new, big, and the buildings of the hotel are so opulent. i think it opened in 2003. my room was a bit strange, as it was a single, and one of my windows opened into the garden of a local old couple...one night in my room preparing to go out, i heard them making dinner and listening to the radio and chat with each other. it was nice. also, there is etro products in the bathroom, which is pretty cool.

By: romakimmy

romakimmy — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 06:25:45 -0800

Re: renting a car. You say you only have a few days in each city. Unless you have your heart set on out of city excursions, based on the time factor and the cities you'll be visiting, I'd stick with the trains.

You'll waste less time and money that way. Gas is expensive, autostrada tolls add up, you'll likely run into massives queues on said autostradas, and then you have to find parking (and pay for it). Plus you might run into the blocco days once you reach the cities - certain days traffic in 'green areas' of the cities is blocked or goes by alternating odd/even numbers of licence plates. (ie here in Rome is Thursdays and some Sundays).

I can't really see one wanting to add that amount of stress to their honeymoon...auguri! :)

Ps - My preference would be for Venice proper; Mestre just inspires feelings of 'meh' for me...

By: deadfather

deadfather — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 06:49:39 -0800

Don't stay IN Venice, there are plenty of nicer, cheaper hotels that aren't on the islands. The architecture and history are nice, but it's a repulsive tourist hole devoid of culture.

Lighten up. Before visiting, I fully expected this to be the case, but not even my pessimism could put a dent in one of the most romantic cities in the world. It's not a college course, it's their honeymoon.

Alle Testiere (recommended above)
Calle del Mondo Novo, Castello 5801, Venice, Italy
041/5227220
Probably the best restaurant in Venice. Expensive, but not prohibitively so. �20 entrees. Small, so make reservations!

In Florence:
Trattoria Cibrèo
Via de Macci 122r, Firenze, Italy
055/2341100
More casual version of Ristorante Cibrèo next door. Excellent seafood and soups. Skip dessert, walk over to Caffé Cibrèo around the corner, and get the flourless chocolate tort (�3). Mandatory. Small, so make reservations!

Osteria de Benci
Via de Benci 13r, Firenze, Italy
Near Santa Croce
055/2344923
Streetside dining, huge portions. Tourists and natives alike here. Big, but make reservations!

By: deadfather

deadfather — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 06:55:37 -0800

Oops: Trattoria Cibrèo doesn't take reservations. But showing up ten minutes before they open will get you a table.

By: leafwoman

leafwoman — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 07:39:29 -0800

"Oops: Trattoria Cibrèo doesn't take reservations. But showing up ten minutes before they open will get you a table."

We had a lovely meal there (highly recomended) at a shared table! Two expats were just starting a meal and we joined them. Discussing the local scene, politics, Italian food and what was good onthe menu. Great fun. (Hadn't even discovered Prosecco yet.)

By: judith

judith — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:00:18 -0800

i used lastminute.com to find a hotel room in venice and was very pleasantly surprised to get a room in a beautiful 14th century palazzo (palazzo priuli) for under $100/night.

By: Chuck Cheeze

Chuck Cheeze — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:43:51 -0800

DO, DO, DO stay in Venice. Stay right in the heart of every city you visit...become part of the city and dive deep into the culture. Calling it a tourist trap devoid of culture is someone who can't appreciate it. America is devoid of culture. Venice's pinky finger has more culture than all of America...

Take the trains...and pay a little extra for your own 1st class sleeping room. Its a wonderful thing to sleep on the trains with the door shut and wake up as you come into the next city you are visiting. We were there in July, so the A/C in the 1st class was nice, but you should have cooler weather. You may want to but a eurorail pass ahead of time, like a 7 day pass or whetever fits your needs.

Oh, and go with the flow...don't plan everything out (other than where or when you are going). And I highly reccomend the Rick Steve's guides for help finding your way around.

Finally, Murano will take you about 2 hours, maybe a little more. It was interesting for sure but its not a full day or anything.

Have fun!

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:58:52 -0800

(You won't need sleeper trains on your route -- it's like 2 hours on the Eurostar.)

If you like shawls and such, you might want to visit Burano as well as Murano. It's the lace-making (and fishing) center, and much less touristed. Makes you feel like you're in an old Italian village. Torcello, the other main island, has a lovely old church with a gorgeous Virgin Mary mosaic; if you like mosaics, it's worth a visit. (Torcello is basically where Venice started.)

By: initapplette

initapplette — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:57:51 -0800

Some of my favorite restaurants in Venice:

Alle Testiere (seems I'm not alone in this assessment!) Only fish and shellfish are served. There's no printed menu; you'll be choosing among whatever is fresh at the market that day. If you're lucky, they'll be serving cuttlefish. You can also have a different glass of wine tailored to each course; just ask the server (who is co-owner and chooses the restaurant's wines). You'll need reservations.

Il Refolo, near Campo San Giacomo dall'Orio in Santa Croce: Dining is outdoors only. Pizza, pasta, and great, large, Spritzes. Very friendly waitstaff and the owner is always around to chat and maybe offer you a glass of Limoncello on the house, especially if you tell him you're on your honeymoon.

Locanda Cipriani on the island of Torcello. Overlooks a beautiful garden. You may not want to spend a large chunk of your time getting to the island and back, but if you have the time, it is worth it. The food is plated at your table. A little pricy, but the Bellinis here are cheaper than at Harry's Bar (owned by the same people). You'll need reservations here too.

Da Marisa, in Cannaregio, Fondamenta San Giobbe 652/b. Telephone 041 72 02 11. No menu; you eat whatever they feel like cooking. Moderately priced and tasty. Small enough that you might start talking with people at the next table, and friendly enough that you might be invited into the kitchen to meet the family.

If there are specific restaurants where you know you definitely want to go, make reservations before you leave. Some places are booked well in advance.

Things to do in Venice:

If you love jewelry, you have to go to Sent. It's in Campo San Vio in Dorsoduro, near the Peggy Guggenheim Museum. I bought two necklaces made of glass beads, and they bring me compliments every time I wear them.

If you like art, get a CHORUS pass; one price gets you into 15 churches. Can be purchased at any of the churches.

The Secret Itineraries tour mentioned upthread was a highlight for me.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:19:45 -0800

If you like shawls and such, you might want to visit Burano as well as Murano.

Burano is also gorgeous. Highly recommend.

By: Ogre Lawless

Ogre Lawless — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:20:12 -0800

Eats in Florence: Za-Za is tasty and pleasantly atmospheric.

You have to work not to find nice scarves at reasonable prices (~€20) in Florence. The Straw Market in Piazza del Mercato Nuovo is probably your best bet, though its of the sort of open-air tourist-targeting market one finds worldwide if that sort of thing puts you off.

I was a bit dissapointed in the leatherwork I found there -- my local Border's usually had equitable prices for better Italian leather journals (my road writing weapon of choice).

Had lovely drunken evenings at the Fiddler's Elbow which is typically staffed by Irish expats and right across from the train station. They sling mostly UK beer, but Italy isn't exactly known for its brew.

Trains are generally pretty good and a reasonable way to travel on a shorter trip, though I'd definately recommend a car to anyone who wanted to see Tuscany as the best towns are hilltop which != trains.