Comments on: how to find an invisible city

Question: how to find an invisible city

suedehead — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:35:50 -0800

Help me find a city in which to lose myself.

I'm looking for a non-North-American city/country in which to lose myself -- just streets or alleys with the right amount of disorientation and disconnect. Think of the red-lit alleys in Venice at 1am, or certain empty streets on a weekday night in New York, or Apgujung in Seoul, or even MG Road in Bangalore.

I'm able to travel for a week, or less. This city has to have a deep night with a city full of people I don't know. This is as much your question as it is mine.

I travel alone often, so cleanliness/comfortability/sanitary conditions/running water doesn't really matter -- all I want is the thick sense of giddy and disorientation.

Like Calvino's Invisible Cities.
"Arriving at each new city, the traveler finds again a past of his that he did not know he had: the foreignness of what you no longer are or no longer possess lies in wait for you in foreign, unpossessed places."

Where would you go?

By: kcm

kcm — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:38:52 -0800

Amsterdam is not a bad choice. Everyone there is not from there, there's plenty of seedy areas, plenty of upscale areas, and then even more lonely quiet alleys. Quite safe on the whole, regardless. Anything you want to do, you can.

By: fourcheesemac

fourcheesemac — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:43:18 -0800

Tokyo is famous for maps not even being useful. On purpose. People are rumored to get lost for days trying to find particular addresses, sometimes having to go home and return the next day to pick up the search where they left off.

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:51:54 -0800

Mumbai? One of the disorienting experiences I've ever had in my life.

I think many of the world's largest cities are large enough to contain worlds inside them: Moscow, Istanbul, Tokyo, Cairo, Rio de Janeiro - although with varying degrees of how safe it is for you if you wander into the wrong world.

By: pdb

pdb — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:04:27 -0800

Barcelona or Madrid. Tons of alleys, tons of nooks and crannies, and a million ways to lose yourself - and you'll almost always end up at a good restaurant at the end of the day.

By: user92371

user92371 — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:10:36 -0800

I liked Macau for this purpose. You could get lost, and then when you didn't want to be lost, you walked in a straight line until your feet got wet. I had one of those freebie maps, but I didn't look at it until night started falling, had to get back to Hong Kong Y M C A (it's fun to stay there ... seriously, cheap 'n' cozy, very European feel, bunkbeds, four to a room, so great meeting other travellers, 10x better than The Nathan at 1/5th the price).

Also that Tokyo thing sounds like bunk. I know the taxi drivers sometimes get out and ask where things are but "picking up the search" ...? I had no problem finding things in Tokyo, I don't speak Japanese and read about 3% of it. You're telling me someone who can speak the language can't ask around, like the taxi drivers do? They can't call their destination?

Kuala Lumpur is also a good bet. Not as fun getting lost as Macau, though.

By: Paris Hilton

Paris Hilton — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:17:18 -0800

Jeez I wouldn't consider wondering around in Rio or Moscow particularly safe.

By: frogan

frogan — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:18:17 -0800

all I want is the thick sense of giddy and disorientation

A friend once told me a rather harrowing tale of getting completely batshitinsane lost at night in Mauritius. Good-sized city. No fucking street lights or signs of any kind.

By: wilful

wilful — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:19:31 -0800

You will totally lose yourself in the old city of Varanasi/Benares, on the banks of the Ganges in India. Four or five story buildings with lanes no wider than about two metres, extending for several square kilometres. The only reference points are one or two main thoroughfares and the river.

I had myself a strong bhang lassi and got badly disorientated tehre one night. Found my way out eventually.

The whole city is a mindfuck anyway, watching the buring ghats and the religious folks and everything.

user, you say KL? Quite easy to navigate, I found.

By: barnacles

barnacles — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:39:59 -0800

Tashkent, Uzbekistan. Getting the Visa might be the hard part, though.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:41:25 -0800

Barcelona, though you'll do better the darker your skin tone is. White foreigners tend to get robbed by poor Africans in the Gothic Quarter. While I'm white and had no problem, people we met there did and we were warned over and over about not wandering alone. Still, it's a fantastic place to be alone in.

By: disillusioned

disillusioned — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:01:09 -0800

Taipei, Taiwan surprised me with its life, even late at night. Winding miles of night markets with many, many people (not as empty as you may prefer) would filter down to dark, empty streets and alleys with plenty to still see and take in.

It was absolutely incredible.

By: rob511

rob511 — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:30:31 -0800

Assuming you're not necessarily looking to put yourself at risk (as some posters seem to think), consider sampling the plaintive saudade of Lisbon expressed through fado, in some of its after-hours haunts.

By: Serial Killer Slumber Party

Serial Killer Slumber Party — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:30:55 -0800

Jakarta, though quite unsafe, sounds sort of like the thing you are looking for. Even during the day, the city can be very disorientating, and it doesn't appear to cater directly for tourists. At least that's what I found there.

By: ouke

ouke — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:32:25 -0800

In the past Genova, Italy worked for me in this respect. It's crowded, it's loud, it's smelly. I think the barren harbor environment is a bonus. I always wondered about Marseille, to be the ultimate harbor city.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:50:26 -0800

I'd second Amsterdam. It's exactly as you describe.

By: sizemore

sizemore — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:45:42 -0800

Amsterdam is fantastic, but small. Tokyo is vast, but expensive.

Mexico City is the only place I've ever really lost myself in the way you describe. It's so alive at night that it hurts and it took a guy with electrodes to really snap me out of my giddiness.

By: Happy Dave

Happy Dave — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:23:29 -0800

Stone Town, Zanzibar, the place is an absolute maze of little alleys - although it's pretty small, so walk in one direction for any length of time and you'll hit water. The night fish market is amazing, as is the mix of Arabic, European and African architecture.

By: slimepuppy

slimepuppy — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:33:16 -0800

I'd say London to a certain extent. The architecture and sprawl make it quite ideal for being lost in. A city built upon itself for centuries. Not too much city planning to make it easy to navigate. What it lacks in height it makes up in land area.

The language might provide a reconnect, though. So a foreign language city is probably your best bet.

By: badlydubbedboy

badlydubbedboy — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:02:30 -0800

Edinburgh Old Town. It's not very big but there are so many nooks, crannies, doorways, arches, it's good for an exploration.

Not to mention the fact they have STREETS ON TOP OF STREETS. That does bake my noodle.

You may not find it big enough for a week - but then you can pop over to Glasgow and other places.

By: zanni

zanni — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:32:16 -0800

1) The medina in Marrakech (or any major Arab city).
2) Jerusalem.
3) Pamplona during San Fermin (the actual geography of the town becomes almost irrelevent due to the mass of drunken runners and spectators).
4) Asakusa (Tokyo) on New Year's Day (similar to above but more sober).

By: pollystark

pollystark — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:35:57 -0800

I third Barcelona. The central part is an absolute maze of six storey buildings towering over narrow streets. And so much interesting stuff to find.

By: ceri richard

ceri richard — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:37:51 -0800

I'd go for Marseilles, especially if you don't speak French. I got lost near the old port one bright, sunny morning and it didn't take long before I was hurrying through endless, dark streets desperate to find a way out. Didn't dare directions of anyone seated ouside cafés because I suspect many were active/former gangsters. And I don't think this was the product of an overactive imagination and/or too many Jean Gabin movies. Come to think of it, there are suburbs of Paris that fit the bill but it's been too long since I've been there to suggest an area.

Again, not sure if there's enough in Marseilles to keep you occupied for a whole week but badlydubbedboy's Edinburgh/Glasgow suggestion is a great one.

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:52:19 -0800

I'll second Marrakesh.

By: meehawl

meehawl — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:16:19 -0800

Edinburgh. Nice twisty alleys. Lots of festivals.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:27:20 -0800

Istanbul is enchanting, and I mean that in the most earnest and non-ironic way.
Amsterdam is real and rustic at the same time, but I'm prejudiced in her favour.

It's too bad I can't say New York.

By: signal

signal — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:40:30 -0800

La Paz, Bolivia.
Jerusalem, Israel.
Any medium to large greek island town.
Istanbul, Turkey.

By: handee

handee — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:51:42 -0800

I'll third Marrkech. And Istanbul.

By: Decani

Decani — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:11:18 -0800

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to metion London. The sheer, mind-numbing size of the place means you can get hopelessly lost in ever-unfamiliar areas, if that's really what you're looking for. I lived there for twenty years and there are still huge areas of the city I don't know at all.

It's not pretty, but it is big - almost intimidatingly so - and there are certainly areas that are faiy labyrinthine.

I visited Moscow in 1987 and spent a lot of time deliberately losing myself. It's an easy city to do that in, however, as others have pointed out, it ain't exactly safe to be wandering around in these days.

By: Decani

Decani — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:15:56 -0800

Also: I second the medium-to-large Greek town idea. Many of these are ramshackle and feature haphazard street layouts, skinny alleys and surprisingly-located shops and tavernas. Specifically:

Iraklio, Crete
Chania, Crete (a bit small, though)
Thessaloniki, mainland
Patras, mainland
Chora, Chios
Samos Town, Samos

By: a007r

a007r — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:37:38 -0800

Forestville ! Mwahah. You can't have a more invisible/lost city than that ;)

By: maxpower

maxpower — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:52:13 -0800

Bankgkok or Hanoi.

When you've had your fill of strange city, culture, and people there is still fantastic things to see. Temples and tombs and the like for example. Both are very safe.

By: misteraitch

misteraitch — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:05:08 -0800

Rome is a perfect city for losing oneself in.

By: booth

booth — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:43:36 -0800

You could get lost for a week in Istanbul's Grand Bazaar.

By: WinnipegDragon

WinnipegDragon — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:46:51 -0800

A third for Edinburgh. A fantastic city...

By: borkingchikapa

borkingchikapa — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:48:32 -0800

Bangkok.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:52:09 -0800

Any of the old Middle Easter cities.

Syria is a police state, which is bad for citizens, but good for tourists as there is virtually no crime. You could safely get lost in the old city of Damascus or the Christian Quarter of Aleppo with little consequence other than incredible experiences and a coffee buzz (from being invited to drink coffee with a million shop keepers).

By: m@

m@ — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:52:23 -0800

London on a Sunday (heck, doesn't even have to be nighttime), it's like the opening scenes in 28 Days Later.

By: grahamwell

grahamwell — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:23:16 -0800

For a small city, Sienna has just the kind of atmospherics that you are looking for (very like Venice, which you've already mentioned) and despite its size you really can get utterly lost in it, since there's no discernible logic to its plan. It's also ravishingly beautiful but if it bores you then head back to Florence. For a big city Moscow is the obvious choice, but it's just nasty. A more gentle choice might be Budapest - it's huge, rambling, dark, decrepit and fascinating, obscured by an impenetrable language and people in motion apparently without point or purpose. A great gas-lit Imperial city without an Empire. Stay in the Gellert for the true experience.

By: exacta_perfecta

exacta_perfecta — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:25:30 -0800

Guanajuato, Mexico. Many of the streets are winding, cobblestone alleyways that all lead back to one another, like a maze without dead ends. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site, and so there are no traffic lights or neon signs, and the major street has been tunneled under the city so as not to disturb the original buildings. It's a small city, but beautiful and somewhat surreal.

By: BuddhaInABucket

BuddhaInABucket — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:48:27 -0800

I'm surprised nobody mentioned old Toledo, Spain. It's not very big, but delightfully get-lost-in-able.

By: ig

ig — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:53:55 -0800

the medina in Fès, or Chefchaouen, Morocco. Phnom Pehn, Cambodia. São Paulo, Brazil.

By: vignettist

vignettist — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:50:30 -0800

Try Prague.

If you stay off the main thoroughfares and the Charles' Bridge, you can completely cut yourself off from English speakers and tourists. Lots of twisty little roads to explore, and I never once felt unsafe, even wandering alone at night.

The architecture in the city is amazing. You will be recognized as a tourist however for constantly staring upward at the buildings, as opposed to looking in the direction that you are walking. The locals are numbed to it.

By: dmd

dmd — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:47:46 -0800

By: jack_mo

jack_mo — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:14:39 -0800

Berlin would be a good bet. I ended up in some very odd places when I visited - loads of squats, weird bars in former arms depots, filthy Thai restaurants taken over by dyke DJs with seven foot trannies guarding the door. Basically, pull aside any bit of corrugated iron you see, or head through a gap in a wall, and chances are something odd/cool/shady will be going on, often just off seemingly respectable streets. You might need to order your wandering a little, though - I think most of the above fun happened in the Mitte area. Vast swathes of the place are dull as ditchwater, all huge boulevard streets and blocks of flats (though they can be fun at dawn, very dead).

Maybe not quite what you're after, but I always recommend Zagreb - it's fairly small, but I found jumping on a tram and getting off at random led to some wonderful nooks and crannies. There's a nice divide between the old and new parts of the town (with very, um, interesting people hanging about on the border between the two at night). It's also wonderfully easy to get lost - all the streets have official and colloquial names, but people and maps both seem to use one or the other at random.

Oh, and please ignore all suggestions to visit Edinburgh - lovely place, but from the question, absolutely not what you're after (llabyrinthine in places, sure, but it's a labyrinth lined with gift-shops).

By: smallerdemon

smallerdemon — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:19:26 -0800

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Vienna, Austria. Lots and lots and lots of back streets and alleys with little shops, 3,000 known coffee shops, an entire chunk of the city devoted just to museums , art on every other street corner, great food, great wine, great beer, and plenty of opporutunities to wander and find yourself in a park underneath a WWII guntower in a beautiful garden, or perhaps standing at a sausage stand with construction workers, tourists and businessmen. It's just a really fascinating city with one of the most interesting vibes I've ever experienced.

The city has public transportation galore, but it's very walkable as well. If you really want to duck away and have a beer in the corner of a smokey cafe, there's a great little place called Cafe Benno with excellent food, beer and wine, and very very weird 70s and 80s progressive art rock music playing in the background while people sit around and smoke and chat.

There's just a lot to discover there, and I regret only having had a week to explorer. It's too beautiful and the people while not slap you on the back Southern style friendly are very kind, jovial when you try some German, and hell, the invented coffee with rum in it.

By: Ogre Lawless

Ogre Lawless — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:04:16 -0800

Oxford, England. Load up on absinthe at The Turf and find yourself some very odd places.

By: LanTao

LanTao — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:25:38 -0800

Berlin's a big, big city. Mitte is where it's currently happening, though the movement is slowly expandin into other areas such as Friedrichshain.

just wanted to comment on Berlin. Living in Amsterdam I of course have to vote for that - and we have absinthe too. And any major Asian metropolis.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:24:54 -0800

Jerusalem's Old City is nothing but twisty alleyways, tiny doorways to duck under to get to the next street, sudden bazaars, ancient walls and sacred monuments.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:27:09 -0800

This city has to have a deep night with a city full of people I don't know.

Sorry, missed this requirement. Scratch the Old City.

By: divabat

divabat — Sat, 13 May 2006 07:37:07 -0800

As a Malaysian, I'm not sure I'd recommend KL; it's OK during the day, but at night it can get a bit unsafe, especially for a non-local. The police might think you're out for "indecent behaviour" or something.

I n+1 Edinburgh and Amsterdam, and would like to add Antwerp in Belgium (my host family brought me to this underground tavern my first night; SO COOL), Utrecht in the Netherlands (public transport ends early tho), Erfurt in Germany (SO PRETTY) and Modena in Italy (also with the pretty but not sure about the safety).