How to co-parent with live-in ex?
November 17, 2019 1:44 AM Subscribe
My ex and I split up for good in April, after 18 years together. The last few years were rocky, but we both gave it our best. We have a 14 year old, who we are staying together to co-parent. I am dating, ex is not. Initially I said I would support my ex and we could live together until our child leaves home, but I've found the situation harder to manage than I had anticipated.
The reason I initially agreed to live together and co-parent our child is so that our child wouldn't have to experience their parents splitting up, and because my ex had been unemployed for the better part of a decade. Ex is now in work, although it is partly seasonal. We have a big enough chunk of savings that ex could live on for maybe a year if they moved out on their own.
We don't fight, but my ex still pines for me, and I know the situation is difficult for them. They suffer from anxiety and depression, and while I do not, I'm strongly affected by their emotions. Initially they said some accusatory and insensitive things about me after the breakup, and leaned a bit too heavily on our child for emotional support. They appear to have gotten this under control, but they are still sulky and anxious. I drink, not heavily, but daily, in part to avoid the pain of this person's unhappiness.
I did say eventually that I thought this was all too much, and that I wanted my ex to move out. My ex said they feel like part of a family in this house, and that's helping them emotionally. I felt bad for going back on my offer to live together. My ex is good person, and they are usually very good with our child. Our child feels supported and loved by both of us. We are still legally married for visa purposes, although my ex can apply for citizenship and I will encourage them to do so to be less dependent on me.
My ex does not sulk constantly, but I don't always know when it will happen and it affects me a lot. I wish I could insulate myself from them, emotionally, but I've been unsuccessful so far. When my current partner comes over, my ex has sat, staring at us wordlessly. When we moved to another room, ex followed us there, staring at us wordlessly. I didn't even argue with them about their behavior because after 18 years of trying to make things work, I know that they are unlikely to change. My current partner is delightful and kind and understanding, but even they referred to my ex as an "energy vampire" and it seemed appropriate.
I know I can't continue with this until my child leaves home. I'm thinking of waiting until they turn 15 next autumn to ask my partner to move out, but every day is a struggle. Child also has anxiety issues which I don't want to exacerbate, but I think it may be easier for me to manage these when my ex isn't around. I think about how much I resent supporting them and cleaning up after them. But I told our child that we would live together until they went to university, and I feel badly going back on that.
I'm not sure what to do now. I would appreciate tips for either making this go more easily, letting someone else's pain just be theirs and not to take it on myself, as well as suggestions for a timeline of separation. People who have made live-in co-parenting work, is this something that can resolve itself over time or is it likely to stay like this forever?
The reason I initially agreed to live together and co-parent our child is so that our child wouldn't have to experience their parents splitting up, and because my ex had been unemployed for the better part of a decade. Ex is now in work, although it is partly seasonal. We have a big enough chunk of savings that ex could live on for maybe a year if they moved out on their own.
We don't fight, but my ex still pines for me, and I know the situation is difficult for them. They suffer from anxiety and depression, and while I do not, I'm strongly affected by their emotions. Initially they said some accusatory and insensitive things about me after the breakup, and leaned a bit too heavily on our child for emotional support. They appear to have gotten this under control, but they are still sulky and anxious. I drink, not heavily, but daily, in part to avoid the pain of this person's unhappiness.
I did say eventually that I thought this was all too much, and that I wanted my ex to move out. My ex said they feel like part of a family in this house, and that's helping them emotionally. I felt bad for going back on my offer to live together. My ex is good person, and they are usually very good with our child. Our child feels supported and loved by both of us. We are still legally married for visa purposes, although my ex can apply for citizenship and I will encourage them to do so to be less dependent on me.
My ex does not sulk constantly, but I don't always know when it will happen and it affects me a lot. I wish I could insulate myself from them, emotionally, but I've been unsuccessful so far. When my current partner comes over, my ex has sat, staring at us wordlessly. When we moved to another room, ex followed us there, staring at us wordlessly. I didn't even argue with them about their behavior because after 18 years of trying to make things work, I know that they are unlikely to change. My current partner is delightful and kind and understanding, but even they referred to my ex as an "energy vampire" and it seemed appropriate.
I know I can't continue with this until my child leaves home. I'm thinking of waiting until they turn 15 next autumn to ask my partner to move out, but every day is a struggle. Child also has anxiety issues which I don't want to exacerbate, but I think it may be easier for me to manage these when my ex isn't around. I think about how much I resent supporting them and cleaning up after them. But I told our child that we would live together until they went to university, and I feel badly going back on that.
I'm not sure what to do now. I would appreciate tips for either making this go more easily, letting someone else's pain just be theirs and not to take it on myself, as well as suggestions for a timeline of separation. People who have made live-in co-parenting work, is this something that can resolve itself over time or is it likely to stay like this forever?
Your child is going to experience divorce. There is nothing magical about turning 15 or 18 that makes it better. What makes a good divorce for kids has little to do with age. This delay benefits nobody.
Have you considered the "nesting" or "birdnesting" transition model? That might work for you.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:30 AM on November 17, 2019 [25 favorites]
Have you considered the "nesting" or "birdnesting" transition model? That might work for you.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:30 AM on November 17, 2019 [25 favorites]
Child also has anxiety issues which I don't want to exacerbate, but I think it may be easier for me to manage these when my ex isn't around.
As someone who has been a child in this kind of scenario, I would like to offer a 95% certain assurance that your child's anxiety issues are being exacerbated by the current situation.
This isn't a healthy emotional environment for you, your child, or your ex.
posted by chiquitita at 2:58 AM on November 17, 2019 [81 favorites]
As someone who has been a child in this kind of scenario, I would like to offer a 95% certain assurance that your child's anxiety issues are being exacerbated by the current situation.
This isn't a healthy emotional environment for you, your child, or your ex.
posted by chiquitita at 2:58 AM on November 17, 2019 [81 favorites]
The reason I initially agreed to live together and co-parent our child is so that our child wouldn't have to experience their parents splitting up and...
The thing about this, is that your child is experiencing their parents splitting up. I guess they're not experiencing their family home split up yet, but their parents are no longer a couple, you have a new partner. The thing you thought you were protecting them from was always still happening anyway.
If you can't continue like this, then I suggest you don't. You can explain to your child that you are just not able to keep living with your partner for another four years. You can ask your ex to move out. Or you yourself can move out. You can file for divorce, or at least consult a lawyer about filing for divorce.
It feels like you are waiting for something about this situation to magically get better. But your ex hasn't moved on and is may be hoping that you'll eventually tire of your new partner and your relationship can be rekindled. It's probably unreasonable to expect them to unilaterally do things that will make the end of your relationship more concrete. So you will have to do those things.
posted by plonkee at 4:42 AM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
The thing about this, is that your child is experiencing their parents splitting up. I guess they're not experiencing their family home split up yet, but their parents are no longer a couple, you have a new partner. The thing you thought you were protecting them from was always still happening anyway.
If you can't continue like this, then I suggest you don't. You can explain to your child that you are just not able to keep living with your partner for another four years. You can ask your ex to move out. Or you yourself can move out. You can file for divorce, or at least consult a lawyer about filing for divorce.
It feels like you are waiting for something about this situation to magically get better. But your ex hasn't moved on and is may be hoping that you'll eventually tire of your new partner and your relationship can be rekindled. It's probably unreasonable to expect them to unilaterally do things that will make the end of your relationship more concrete. So you will have to do those things.
posted by plonkee at 4:42 AM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
Wow, this is much worse for the kid than a clean break with two households would be. Much worse.
What are you modeling for your kid here? Dishonesty, keeping up appearances that have no relation to reality, and the cruel hypocrisy of simultaneously kiiiind of living like a family but at the same time bringing your new partner around -- a situation which your ex is VERY OBVIOUSLY doesn't agree to and isn't ok with. And you're not just modeling it: the kid lives with you, you're forcing them to be part of this very weird setup. Of course they're anxious.
Tell the ex and the kid you made a mistake in thinking this was a workable plan, pay the ex whatever alimony you owe them, and follow through with your divorce the regular way. If their immigration status is prohibitive of a divorce, do the same thing but without the paperwork.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:13 AM on November 17, 2019 [58 favorites]
What are you modeling for your kid here? Dishonesty, keeping up appearances that have no relation to reality, and the cruel hypocrisy of simultaneously kiiiind of living like a family but at the same time bringing your new partner around -- a situation which your ex is VERY OBVIOUSLY doesn't agree to and isn't ok with. And you're not just modeling it: the kid lives with you, you're forcing them to be part of this very weird setup. Of course they're anxious.
Tell the ex and the kid you made a mistake in thinking this was a workable plan, pay the ex whatever alimony you owe them, and follow through with your divorce the regular way. If their immigration status is prohibitive of a divorce, do the same thing but without the paperwork.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:13 AM on November 17, 2019 [58 favorites]
Are you going to family therapy with your child? I’m concerned that they don’t have an outlet to work through the anxiety and have their actual needs for safety and security met. They are so trapped in this situation. There are lots of ways to be loving parents to your kid. You tried this idea but it isn’t working. Don’t change course without a safe environment for your kid to be heard and for them to receive support during this change.
posted by amanda at 6:51 AM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by amanda at 6:51 AM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
there is literally no possible way that you and your ex living apart could somehow be MORE traumatic for your child than having to watch one parent happily dating while the other parent creepily and bitterly stalks them around the house.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2019 [69 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2019 [69 favorites]
I wanted my ex to move out
With all due respect, you ended the relations, you have moved on with a new partner, you are not struggling with anxiety, and have stable employment (is this perhaps because they provided the majority of child care while you were employed, or their visa situation made employment complicated?). Perhaps you should consider being the one who leaves? To be honest, it strikes me as really, really cruel to bring your new partner into your partner's home - especially as you have only been broken up for six months from an 18 year marriage. I am hoping you have the good sense to not have your child aware that you have a new partner or introduced them, even in the guise of a "good friend".
I'm confused how you have been married for 18 years, have been the spouse with the ability to sponsor your spouse's citizenship (and know the national bureaucracy better than them) and yet have not taken steps to provide an anxious, depressed person with the stability of citizenship. There appears to be a major power imbalance in your relationship you are (probably unconsciously) exploiting.
But I told our child that we would live together until they went to university, and I feel badly going back on that
Wait, what?? You have discussed your marital issues with your child when they were 13(!) and made promises to them about your marriage? Whoaaaa. This is a really unhealthy dynamic with your child - and they are very much a child. I hope you are able to find a good therapist to help you unpack why you are making the choices you are and how to make child-centred decisions.
posted by saucysault at 8:42 AM on November 17, 2019 [86 favorites]
With all due respect, you ended the relations, you have moved on with a new partner, you are not struggling with anxiety, and have stable employment (is this perhaps because they provided the majority of child care while you were employed, or their visa situation made employment complicated?). Perhaps you should consider being the one who leaves? To be honest, it strikes me as really, really cruel to bring your new partner into your partner's home - especially as you have only been broken up for six months from an 18 year marriage. I am hoping you have the good sense to not have your child aware that you have a new partner or introduced them, even in the guise of a "good friend".
I'm confused how you have been married for 18 years, have been the spouse with the ability to sponsor your spouse's citizenship (and know the national bureaucracy better than them) and yet have not taken steps to provide an anxious, depressed person with the stability of citizenship. There appears to be a major power imbalance in your relationship you are (probably unconsciously) exploiting.
But I told our child that we would live together until they went to university, and I feel badly going back on that
Wait, what?? You have discussed your marital issues with your child when they were 13(!) and made promises to them about your marriage? Whoaaaa. This is a really unhealthy dynamic with your child - and they are very much a child. I hope you are able to find a good therapist to help you unpack why you are making the choices you are and how to make child-centred decisions.
posted by saucysault at 8:42 AM on November 17, 2019 [86 favorites]
What I suggest is not bringing your partner to your house if you think having two parents in the same house is very important for your child's well-being. I think it's pretty obvious that if you bring a partner over, your ex will be very uncomfortable because they still "pine" for you. It seems that if you agreed to enter into a co-parenting live-in arrangement, then considering the fact that your ex still has an emotional attachment to you, it's not really proper or considerate for you to bring a partner to the house.
posted by Dansaman at 8:45 AM on November 17, 2019 [16 favorites]
posted by Dansaman at 8:45 AM on November 17, 2019 [16 favorites]
Until the conservatives fuck it all up, we have a Family Court in Aus, and the big rule for that is "in the best interests of the child". I think that's a brilliant rule, and I think you should consider it as a baseline for your situation.
posted by pompomtom at 8:54 AM on November 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by pompomtom at 8:54 AM on November 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
I would appreciate tips for either making this go more easily, letting someone else's pain just be theirs and not to take it on myself, as well as suggestions for a timeline of separation.
I'd suggest, gently, that while you cannot fully shield either your child or your soon to be ex-spouse from pain, it's on you to not increase it unnecessarily by having your new partner over. Your child needs to process and grieve the end of their family as they knew it, and so does your ex.
That said, staying five years in the same household while terminating the relationship and marriage (especially when one partner still pines for the other) sounds like a recipe for blurred lines and general unhappiness for everyone, including your child.
Seeing that your spouse is not a citizen I'd recommend both of you talk to a lawyer before you make any decisions about the timeline and/or living arrangements.
posted by M. at 9:13 AM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'd suggest, gently, that while you cannot fully shield either your child or your soon to be ex-spouse from pain, it's on you to not increase it unnecessarily by having your new partner over. Your child needs to process and grieve the end of their family as they knew it, and so does your ex.
That said, staying five years in the same household while terminating the relationship and marriage (especially when one partner still pines for the other) sounds like a recipe for blurred lines and general unhappiness for everyone, including your child.
Seeing that your spouse is not a citizen I'd recommend both of you talk to a lawyer before you make any decisions about the timeline and/or living arrangements.
posted by M. at 9:13 AM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
It seems completely untenable to continue this arrangement so please seek advice both from a family lawyer and possibly an immigration lawyer and then take the steps that need to be taken to fix your spouse’s immigration status and to separate formally. From what you say it seems unlikely that your spouse will initiate any changes, even if they didn’t depend on you for residency, so you need to initiate these steps.
Waiting until your child‘s next birthday just links that birthday to the time their parents stopped living together so don’t do that.
You say your child feels fully supported. I cannot imagine any teen feeling as if they could be truly open with either one of you about how much this set-up, as described in your post, sucks. You leaning on them, their father pining and struggling with his own problems and you dating and bringing that person home thereby creating even more complex emotions. Give your child their own dedicated support for the foreseeable future.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:33 AM on November 17, 2019 [14 favorites]
Waiting until your child‘s next birthday just links that birthday to the time their parents stopped living together so don’t do that.
You say your child feels fully supported. I cannot imagine any teen feeling as if they could be truly open with either one of you about how much this set-up, as described in your post, sucks. You leaning on them, their father pining and struggling with his own problems and you dating and bringing that person home thereby creating even more complex emotions. Give your child their own dedicated support for the foreseeable future.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:33 AM on November 17, 2019 [14 favorites]
When my current partner comes over, my ex has sat, staring at us wordlessly. When we moved to another room, ex followed us there, staring at us wordlessly.
This alone, should be reason enough for demanding that they move out. It's not normal.
posted by beagle at 10:07 AM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
This alone, should be reason enough for demanding that they move out. It's not normal.
posted by beagle at 10:07 AM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
But I told our child that we would live together until they went to university, and I feel badly going back on that.
making your child responsible for this decision is a thing they will later find unforgivable, unless they have so thoroughly identified themselves with one or the other of you that they aren't able to get angry. which is its own kind of damage. This is sort of like what people usually call parentification, though perhaps a little worse.
You don't have the right to hang a decision like this around your kid's neck. you just don't have the right. Your bad feelings for breaking your word are your own to bear. The shame your child will later feel for holding you to your word -- as if they have any real power to do so, as if they should ever have been put in the premature position of being consulted and obeyed -- will be beyond any bad feelings you can have now. And I believe that your bad feelings are actually pretty horrible.
it would be easy to blame your ex for most of it, except for this. if you are counting on being forgiven eventually because your ex is so clearly worse, don't. children aren't reliable that way, and they don't have to be.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on November 17, 2019 [20 favorites]
making your child responsible for this decision is a thing they will later find unforgivable, unless they have so thoroughly identified themselves with one or the other of you that they aren't able to get angry. which is its own kind of damage. This is sort of like what people usually call parentification, though perhaps a little worse.
You don't have the right to hang a decision like this around your kid's neck. you just don't have the right. Your bad feelings for breaking your word are your own to bear. The shame your child will later feel for holding you to your word -- as if they have any real power to do so, as if they should ever have been put in the premature position of being consulted and obeyed -- will be beyond any bad feelings you can have now. And I believe that your bad feelings are actually pretty horrible.
it would be easy to blame your ex for most of it, except for this. if you are counting on being forgiven eventually because your ex is so clearly worse, don't. children aren't reliable that way, and they don't have to be.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on November 17, 2019 [20 favorites]
Hold on, you are actually currently married and living with your spouse, but six months ago you what? Decided to start sleeping with this new person? Your spouse is still reeling from this turn of events and faced with starting a new career in middle age while struggling with anxiety and depression, and you're bringing your lover into your shared home and expecting them to just be okay with it?
Meanwhile you've got a job, a new partner, and decent mental health, and you want THEM to move out? What the fuck? The timeline is, you move out and provide reasonable financial support to your partner while they get on their feet and show some actual compassion to them, not just your kid.
posted by HotToddy at 12:00 PM on November 17, 2019 [46 favorites]
Meanwhile you've got a job, a new partner, and decent mental health, and you want THEM to move out? What the fuck? The timeline is, you move out and provide reasonable financial support to your partner while they get on their feet and show some actual compassion to them, not just your kid.
posted by HotToddy at 12:00 PM on November 17, 2019 [46 favorites]
People who have made live-in co-parenting work, is this something that can resolve itself over time or is it likely to stay like this forever?
You already know the answer to this. It's not going to resolve.
If your ex were capable of pulling their act together, you'd still be married. They're not, and to continue living in an anxiety-producing and essentially miserable way is terrible. It's terrible for you, your kid, your ex. You're just extending an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage but you're calling it splitting up and co-parenting.
For all intents and purposes, you're still acting like married people. So you need to really break up. Consider the message your kid is getting--that it's perfectly fine for adults to choose to stay together, unhappily.
This is not a good situation for any of the involved parties and someone needs to step up and end it. That someone is you. You can do this.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:34 PM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
You already know the answer to this. It's not going to resolve.
If your ex were capable of pulling their act together, you'd still be married. They're not, and to continue living in an anxiety-producing and essentially miserable way is terrible. It's terrible for you, your kid, your ex. You're just extending an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage but you're calling it splitting up and co-parenting.
For all intents and purposes, you're still acting like married people. So you need to really break up. Consider the message your kid is getting--that it's perfectly fine for adults to choose to stay together, unhappily.
This is not a good situation for any of the involved parties and someone needs to step up and end it. That someone is you. You can do this.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:34 PM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
faced with starting a new career in middle age
I mean middle age is just what happens when you're "unemployed for the better part of a decade." "faced with" makes it sound like some special undue hardship for this person to a. be old and b. have to get a job, instead of a (miserable) thing that happens to us all.
of course, that decade of unemployment could mean that the spouse has been the primary caregiver for their child this whole time, out of the job market due to mutual choices, not individual ones, and the OP conveniently forgot to mention that in order to degrade their occupation, make them sound like a longtime useless dependent, and make supporting them sound like an act of kindness. and in that case I would agree that they have some fucking nerve complaining about their spouse's resistance to leaving and refusal to be chipper when the new partner comes over to THEIR HOUSE.
or, the OP could have been both sole financial provider and primary parent this whole time, while supporting a spouse who neither provides for their own financial upkeep nor does half the housework and childcare, let alone most of it. just being in the house is no guarantee that a person is looking after it. mentioning a "chunk of savings" to support this sulky glowerer through a single year, rather than an ongoing legal arrangement of alimony and child support, is a choice that suggests one conclusion over the other, to me. as does "cleaning up after them," though I guess that could be metaphorical.
but it's hard to tell.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:36 PM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
I mean middle age is just what happens when you're "unemployed for the better part of a decade." "faced with" makes it sound like some special undue hardship for this person to a. be old and b. have to get a job, instead of a (miserable) thing that happens to us all.
of course, that decade of unemployment could mean that the spouse has been the primary caregiver for their child this whole time, out of the job market due to mutual choices, not individual ones, and the OP conveniently forgot to mention that in order to degrade their occupation, make them sound like a longtime useless dependent, and make supporting them sound like an act of kindness. and in that case I would agree that they have some fucking nerve complaining about their spouse's resistance to leaving and refusal to be chipper when the new partner comes over to THEIR HOUSE.
or, the OP could have been both sole financial provider and primary parent this whole time, while supporting a spouse who neither provides for their own financial upkeep nor does half the housework and childcare, let alone most of it. just being in the house is no guarantee that a person is looking after it. mentioning a "chunk of savings" to support this sulky glowerer through a single year, rather than an ongoing legal arrangement of alimony and child support, is a choice that suggests one conclusion over the other, to me. as does "cleaning up after them," though I guess that could be metaphorical.
but it's hard to tell.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:36 PM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Reminder that the OP did not specify genders, please respect that. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 12:53 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 12:53 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
Here’s what I would do if I were you:
1) Set up the current household in a way which gives everyone some privacy while you work this out. For example, you could move the child’s bedroom to the ground floor and make that a common area and then you take the upstairs, and s/he takes the basement. You all can access the ground floor to be with a child but when you want privacy you go upstairs and s/he cannot follow you. There was a story I read about a couple who bought a duplex and each of them took one side of it and the children’s bedrooms were in a hallway that could be accessed by both houses. Think of something like that.
2) You agree not to bring the partner over. You also agreed to one adults only family dinner per week where are you and the partner sit down and work out the logistics of this. The goal is best interests of the child primarily, getting your ex on their feet in the most healthful way secondly, and getting as much if this humanely and kindly worked out between you as possible before a money pit lawyer gets involved.
3) You will want to look up beforehand what the rules are in your jurisdiction as some things may be mandated by law and are not negotiable (e.g. child support where I live is based on a formula and isn’t really negotiable. There was also a presumption of shared custody except in extraordinary situations. I know people who wasted a lot of money trying to fight this and were told that if the other parent wants equal time and is capable of providing it, they will get it full stop).
4) Both of you will want to think about what else you might need to be included here. Make those lists before you discuss. When at all possible, be willing to compromise and it will go much more smoothly.
It’s a tough situation but you can do it. Good luck!
posted by ficbot at 2:48 PM on November 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
1) Set up the current household in a way which gives everyone some privacy while you work this out. For example, you could move the child’s bedroom to the ground floor and make that a common area and then you take the upstairs, and s/he takes the basement. You all can access the ground floor to be with a child but when you want privacy you go upstairs and s/he cannot follow you. There was a story I read about a couple who bought a duplex and each of them took one side of it and the children’s bedrooms were in a hallway that could be accessed by both houses. Think of something like that.
2) You agree not to bring the partner over. You also agreed to one adults only family dinner per week where are you and the partner sit down and work out the logistics of this. The goal is best interests of the child primarily, getting your ex on their feet in the most healthful way secondly, and getting as much if this humanely and kindly worked out between you as possible before a money pit lawyer gets involved.
3) You will want to look up beforehand what the rules are in your jurisdiction as some things may be mandated by law and are not negotiable (e.g. child support where I live is based on a formula and isn’t really negotiable. There was also a presumption of shared custody except in extraordinary situations. I know people who wasted a lot of money trying to fight this and were told that if the other parent wants equal time and is capable of providing it, they will get it full stop).
4) Both of you will want to think about what else you might need to be included here. Make those lists before you discuss. When at all possible, be willing to compromise and it will go much more smoothly.
It’s a tough situation but you can do it. Good luck!
posted by ficbot at 2:48 PM on November 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile you've got a job, a new partner, and decent mental health, and you want THEM to move out? What the fuck?
Yeah, this is a huge red flag. You want things to be nice for you, you want the house, you want to not even face the mild inconvenience of going to your new partners house rather than bringing them back to yours, you want to not feel sad about their grief and freak out that they’re going to have to support themselves. But they are actually facing a huge loss. You’re making their middle and old age suddenly unstable in a country they don’t even have citizenship in. You are actively choosing to make their life worse so that yours can be better, and then you’re asking why it doesn’t work.
Maslow is a thing, you know? People can’t focus on your emotional needs when they’re worried about their survival needs. Your spouse made choices over the last 20 years of their life -giving you their youth and their time - predicated on the promises you made to them. Now you’ve decided you don’t want that. So what recompense are you going to give them for that 20 years of labor they’ve given you? The timeline of separation is not “help them for a few years and feel good”, it’s “make them whole for what they have lost by marrying you in the expectation of it continuing.”
posted by corb at 3:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [23 favorites]
Yeah, this is a huge red flag. You want things to be nice for you, you want the house, you want to not even face the mild inconvenience of going to your new partners house rather than bringing them back to yours, you want to not feel sad about their grief and freak out that they’re going to have to support themselves. But they are actually facing a huge loss. You’re making their middle and old age suddenly unstable in a country they don’t even have citizenship in. You are actively choosing to make their life worse so that yours can be better, and then you’re asking why it doesn’t work.
Maslow is a thing, you know? People can’t focus on your emotional needs when they’re worried about their survival needs. Your spouse made choices over the last 20 years of their life -giving you their youth and their time - predicated on the promises you made to them. Now you’ve decided you don’t want that. So what recompense are you going to give them for that 20 years of labor they’ve given you? The timeline of separation is not “help them for a few years and feel good”, it’s “make them whole for what they have lost by marrying you in the expectation of it continuing.”
posted by corb at 3:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [23 favorites]
Is it possible to specify, without reference to gender: who if any physically birthed the child, who was the primary caregiver of the child, if partner was linguistically and/or socially isolated by moving to your country, and what the earning disparity is currently?
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:45 PM on November 17, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:45 PM on November 17, 2019 [7 favorites]
even they referred to my ex as an "energy vampire"
lol yes even they. even the new partner, who sees things your way due to being your new partner and who is primed & predisposed to dislike being around your current spouse due to them being your current spouse, doesn't enjoy the feeling of being in the same room with someone you're married to, in your spouse's very own home, to which said spouse did not invite them, did not welcome them, and does not want them.
even they.
you drink in order to dull the pain; your "ex" vampires up stray threads of energy in order to make a faint impression on the world. we all have something.
seriously you got to get divorced because how much money you allot to this person and how much obligation you have to support them -- and let them be a guest in what I guess you don't think is half their home -- should not be up to you. it cannot be up to you. that's what courts are for. and yes get them citizenship first, if they want it.
(I have a lot of nerve but I cannot imagine complaining about the demeanor of my new boyfriend's wife when I come over to her house. ugh, doesn't she know that when I'm hanging out with my boyfriend, her husband, the last thing I want is her following me around looking at me? kills the vibe dead. very tactless.
genders specified for myself and my personal hypothetical only.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:15 PM on November 17, 2019 [17 favorites]
lol yes even they. even the new partner, who sees things your way due to being your new partner and who is primed & predisposed to dislike being around your current spouse due to them being your current spouse, doesn't enjoy the feeling of being in the same room with someone you're married to, in your spouse's very own home, to which said spouse did not invite them, did not welcome them, and does not want them.
even they.
you drink in order to dull the pain; your "ex" vampires up stray threads of energy in order to make a faint impression on the world. we all have something.
seriously you got to get divorced because how much money you allot to this person and how much obligation you have to support them -- and let them be a guest in what I guess you don't think is half their home -- should not be up to you. it cannot be up to you. that's what courts are for. and yes get them citizenship first, if they want it.
(I have a lot of nerve but I cannot imagine complaining about the demeanor of my new boyfriend's wife when I come over to her house. ugh, doesn't she know that when I'm hanging out with my boyfriend, her husband, the last thing I want is her following me around looking at me? kills the vibe dead. very tactless.
genders specified for myself and my personal hypothetical only.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:15 PM on November 17, 2019 [17 favorites]
^^ seconding that: please get divorced so that matters of equitable distribution of marital property, alimony, child support, and child custody are decided by third parties, not by you. You have far too much power over your ex and far too much stake in these decisions to be fair.
posted by MiraK at 9:58 AM on November 18, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 9:58 AM on November 18, 2019 [3 favorites]
What I've heard others do is maintain the family home full time for the kid, and swap out which of you goes to an apartment during the week and on the weekend. This keeps home life stable for the kids, and puts the burden of disruption where it belongs - with the parents. So - rent an apartment, and spend the weekdays there. When the weekend comes, you spend that time in the family home, and your partner lives in the apartment. You each pack a suitcase, instead of your kid.
posted by vitabellosi at 11:13 AM on November 18, 2019
posted by vitabellosi at 11:13 AM on November 18, 2019
You are at an upper hand in almost all cases in this situation, and you're still finding a way to blame your partner that it's not working. It's their fault you have to drink every day in front of your child? It's their fault you can't handle their "sulking"? What a petty and childish way to frame the legitimate grief of someone who is going through the end of and almost 2 decade relationship with a kid. This person has been in your country how long, you've been married how long, and you haven't helped them get citizenship? It is callous, to both your child and ex partner that you'd even dare to bring a new partner to the house. And it's a huge red flag that your new partner would agree! You're acting like this is your house, and not the house that you've lived in as a married couple, or as a family, or as co-parents. You're trying to control your partner's emotions so you don't have to deal with the fact that your own consequences have actions.
I agree with previous posters that say that you're the one who should move, if your goal really is to help and to make sure your child has two parents. Otherwise its just horribly selfish. The entire premise of your question is "I broke up with my partner of 18 years. How do I control them so that they make everything better for me, without me having to do any work or think about what i did?" The answer is, obviously, that you can't.
posted by FirstMateKate at 2:08 PM on November 18, 2019 [15 favorites]
I agree with previous posters that say that you're the one who should move, if your goal really is to help and to make sure your child has two parents. Otherwise its just horribly selfish. The entire premise of your question is "I broke up with my partner of 18 years. How do I control them so that they make everything better for me, without me having to do any work or think about what i did?" The answer is, obviously, that you can't.
posted by FirstMateKate at 2:08 PM on November 18, 2019 [15 favorites]
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A few thoughts: it sounds like your ex has poor boundaries and isn’t really accepting the end. The behavior around your partner seems pretty inappropriate. I don’t think they’ll accept that it’s over or start the citizenship process until then. (I also wonder about having a new partner over so soon, in that situation; it sounds like your current partner is okay with it, but it will get tiring to deal with that eventually).
But the thing I really want you to think about is what you’re modeling for your child. You are teaching your child how to be in a marriage. Is this current situation what you want them to grow up thinking is normal and healthy?
You could try making staying in the house contingent on your ex going to therapy.
Ultimately it seems like you need to realize you made a mistake in agreeing to still live together. No matter what your ex says, it’s going to be harder for them to move on while you still live together. It might be time to rip the bandaid off.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:07 AM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]