How to handle private harassment in a social group

November 13, 2019 5:04 PM

I recently discovered that a friend whose behavior I had had some somewhat hazy reservations and discomfort about has apparently been privately harassing several other mutual friends via DMs, text, and letters? possibly for years? Everyone involved is part of an extended and long-established network of friends, and the harasser is someone who has been part of this group for much longer than the people being harassed. I'm not directly involved, so I could say "not my circus" but... snowflakes.

I am not directly involved in the sense that I have not been the target of abusive/harassing behavior from this person. I strongly suspect that this is because my spouse is close with the person, and the person is savvy enough to realize that problematic behavior towards me would be heard about by my spouse.

I, and everyone involved here, is part of a friend network that has been established for nearly 20 years. The group has changed over time, but this tends to be a group that invites basically the whole network to big parties and events. In addition, my spouse is friends with this person, and I definitely cannot stop inviting this person to events that we host without explaining why to my spouse, who will be upset and defensive.

The harasser and the people who are being targeted were all involved in an unpleasant dust-up over some romantic relationships a few years ago. Everyone, especially the harasser, claimed to have resolved this over two years ago now. However, the harasser apparently has been DMing, texting, and sending letters to some/all of the other people involved sporadically ever since the "resolution". The harasser is apparently claiming that the victims are "verbally abusing and defaming" the harasser. This seems to be based on the harasser believing that posts on social media that are in no way directed at the harasser are in fact subtle digs, and are somehow poisoning the harassers reputation. Which... irony! The victims have asked the harasser a number of times to just stop contacting them, and just let everyone exist in this group without insisting that everyone be besties. This is something that has definitely happened in this social circle before, where folks who had a private falling out just... don't hang out in the same room at parties anymore, and don't really have a between-them friendship in addition to the sort of floaty community connection. This is what the victims would like, and they have all said so to the harasser-- who sometimes agrees to back off and then for whatever reason starts bothering the victims again.

In addition, the harasser is diabetic , and my spouse has expressed concern about this person managing this condition. I believe that poor diabetes management can cause or acerbate some paranoia and other issues that could be contributing factors. So this could be:
a) a pattern of privately abusive behaviors that no one realized was an ongoing issue
b) a preexisting tendency towards poor boundaries and pushiness that has escalated in the last few years due to a combination of factors that may include poorly-managed diabetes
c) both of the above

On one hand I have not experienced abuse from this person myself. On the other hand, I do not want to invite someone to my house who will cause my other friends to feel unwelcome or unsafe. I cannot possibly exclude this person from events at my house without the support of my spouse, who I have not yet discussed this with. I also don't know how one goes about... exposing a person's private bad behavior like this? But if no one knows about it, won't it continue? And if this is a pattern and this person has actually always been kind of toxic, what then? I'm really, really torn-- I don't want to enable abuse, but I don't know how to handle this, or even if I should. But the victims are worried about speaking up because the harasser has a lot of social capital, and they don't really relish the idea of saying "hey, this person has been harassing us" because... well, it feels icky to out someone based on their private texts.

posted by Ms.Stocking to Human Relations (14 answers total)

Maybe some of the stuff in these Captain Awkward posts can help you contextualize/address it. Google "Missing Stair" and "Geek Social Fallacies" and you'll find a lot of other folks writing about this topic.
posted by matildaben at 5:18 PM on November 13, 2019 [13 favorites]

I am diabetic and my mother and dad and grandmother were diabetic. High and low blood sugar does not cause us to harass people. Quite the opposite: it causes us confusion. But not to be harassers. That is definitely NOT an excuse to harass people, ever.

You should believe the people who have said they have experienced problems with this person, even if you have never had it yourself!

Get them off your group and ban them. That is my opinion. Don't make a medical condition or your lack of being abused an excuse for doing the right thing.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:21 PM on November 13, 2019 [31 favorites]

This doesn't sound like harassment so much as undiagnosed (or unmedicated) psychological issues. Maybe a good place to start is to have someone they trust (your hubs?) have a sit-down and tell them that these things are not really happening. I'm not a trained psy-anything, so this may actually be the worst don't-wake-up-a-sleepwalker thing to do, but dealing with it as a treatable thing rather than a banishable one seems fair.
posted by rhizome at 6:11 PM on November 13, 2019

Maybe a good place to start is to have someone they trust (your hubs?) have a sit-down and tell them that these things are not really happening.

Before you do that you should have a sit-down with the harassed people and your husband and a bunch of printouts and establish for him that the harassment really is happening.

He should be 100% convinced before he tackles this with his friend or things are likely to get much murkier and uglier.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:53 PM on November 13, 2019 [10 favorites]

I understand if you don't want to share details, but I'm a little unclear on how to interpret "an unpleasant dust-up over some romantic relationships," because it could mean a lot of things. Was the now-harasser also displaying harassing behaviour in this dust-up, or were they harassed themselves, or wronged/left on the outs somehow, or something else entirely? I'm also not sure whether the "reservations and discomfort" you have are related to the dust-up, are of a piece with the harassing behaviour, or aren't directly related to either but still uncomfortable.

I ask in part because I have, once, encountered a somewhat similar social situation -- but one where it turned out that the person in the "harasser" position was, in fact, being gaslit by some people who claimed to be the victims. It's vastly less likely than the reverse, of course... but it did happen, and it was awful for everyone, and when it eventually came out (one of the gaslighters then started going after another of the gaslighters, who defended themselves by revealing the receipts in a very public way), it was... yikes.

Again, it's much rarer than the reverse situation, but you might want to consider the underlying dynamics before you make moves to exclude this person. If it's clear that the harassment is coming from the harasser, though, exclusion does seem warranted, and talking to your partner is important to do -- sooner rather than later, before lines get drawn in the group and sides become entrenched. Waiting will make it harder for your partner to emotionally accept the situation.
posted by halation at 7:17 PM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: I’m not willing to add a lot of detail because I’d prefer that this not be recognizable, but the people reporting harassment are folks I believe to be reliable reporters. They are friends with one party who was part of a triangle involving the harasser, and agree that all parties could have done a better job of using their good behavior in that situation.

The past behavior I’ve been concerned about is a similar flavor to the harassing behavior— stuff like repeatedly contacting exes, being angry at people for not being sufficiently appreciative of “favors” the harasser did (without being asked to do them), etc.
posted by Ms.Stocking at 7:47 PM on November 13, 2019

Before you do that you should have a sit-down with the harassed people and your husband and a bunch of printouts and establish for him that the harassment really is happening.

To be clear, what I was saying they should be told wasn't happening is the "posts on social media that are in no way directed at the harasser are in fact subtle digs, and are somehow poisoning the harassers reputation."

We know the harassment is happening, it's a fact, but I think it makes a difference if it's plain spurnitude or something only triggered only by the perceptions they're bringing to the words they read that they think are directed at them. Yes, the effect is the same to the victims, but the fixes are different.
posted by rhizome at 7:48 PM on November 13, 2019

I'm really, really torn-- I don't want to enable abuse, but I don't know how to handle this, or even if I should. But the victims are worried about speaking up because the harasser has a lot of social capital, and they don't really relish the idea of saying "hey, this person has been harassing us" because... well, it feels icky to out someone based on their private texts.

I totally understand why the victims would feel uncomfortable about speaking up, but I think it's worth remembering (and possibly reminding them) that privacy in private texts is a privilege, earned by communicating respectfully and by respecting the boundaries and wishes of the recipient. If the victims have already privately asked the harasser to cease and desist and the harasser is ignoring this, it would not be unreasonable for the victims to seek a more public solution.

With that said, I totally support you cutting the harasser out of your circle, ideally after talking with your spouse if you think that would help ensure a united front (you said your spouse would be upset and defensive, but in the longer run, are they willing to listen to you and respect the fact that you think this is serious enough to take action on, despite the obvious challenges this poses?). Before talking with your spouse, though, I think your first step should be to talk with the victims again and find out what they want: are they comfortable with you cutting their harasser out and sharing what they told you with your spouse?
posted by DingoMutt at 8:11 PM on November 13, 2019 [10 favorites]

I strongly suspect that this is because my spouse is close with the person, and the person is savvy enough to realize that problematic behavior towards me would be heard about by my spouse.

I really encourage you to think about the fact that the only reason you are not a recipient of the harassment is because of your proximity to a man. Not because this person respects you, or realizes that harassment is wrong. Should your proximity to that man change, you are opening yourself up to be a target of harassment.

Cut this person out. And if your husband does not trust your instinct to do so, really ask him why he is choosing this person over your safety.
posted by Pretty Good Talker at 11:17 PM on November 13, 2019 [13 favorites]

Before you cut this person out, I think you should tell him you're considering it, and explain why. That would entail disclosing what his alleged victims have told you—which it sounds as if they don't want. But if you're considering excluding him on the basis of what you've heard, I'm strongly in favor of giving people the opportunity to defend themselves, first. As halation suggests, it is sometimes the case that the apparent victimizer is actually the victim. Things aren't always what they seem.

On the other hand, they often are. And the downside of being fair is that if this person is harassing other people, and you tell him you're considering excluding him, there is very little chance that he'll respond by confessing and reforming. Rather, he's much more likely to respond by lying to your face, and smearing you to other people behind your back. That's s.o.p for narcissist-types of people. (The reason I suggest he might be that type of person is because he is accusing people of "defaming" him. If that's not true, then it is a very telling detail, since narcissists classically accuse people of what they themselves are guilty of—and if there is one thing that narcissists are almost universally guilty of, it is defamation.)

Of course, he might smear you even if you exclude him without telling him why, first—in retaliation for being excluded. After all, it's not as if he won't notice. And with his social capital, it could well end up with YOU being excluded, and not him. While it's not an excuse, that's one reason many people choose to do nothing. Of course, if his victims don't actually want you to do anything, you wouldn't be morally compromising yourself if you do nothing—and if I were you, I wouldn't.

P.S. I just read DingoMutt's comment. So, when it comes to this guy's victims, I agree that you should speak to the victims before you do anything. If they don't want you to do anything, then that should be that. You won't get any thanks if you do something after they've asked you not to.

On the other hand, if they do want you to exclude this guy—but don't want you to tell him why—I'd beg them to reconsider. As I said, I think it's wrong to 'punish' people—even socially—without giving them a chance to defend themselves (however unlikely it is that they'd succeed). In the second place, if they think they can avoid his wrath, they're fooling themselves. Even if you don't tell him what they told you, somebody else will. Or he'll guess for himself.

Also—and this is my last point, I promise—if the victims of this guy's harassment agree to let you tell him what they've told you, they should be present when you do. You're not god or the appointed enforcer of the group's norms. All you can or should do is support this guy's victims in the expectation that they be treated decently. (And if you are going to support this guy's victims, your husband has to support you. If he doesn't, then I'm sorry to say, but you should give it up. None of this is tenable.)
posted by Transl3y at 2:28 AM on November 14, 2019

I understand the ways in which this reads as "male harasser, male spouse," folks, but the OP went way out of their way not to gender anyone in the story.
posted by teremala at 5:05 AM on November 14, 2019 [9 favorites]

Are all the people involved adults?

If so, I strongly agree with the advice above about talking to the victims and seeing what they want to do about it, and then going from there. Putting yourself in the middle of this, especially if you go beyond what the parties directly involved are willing to do, risks getting everyone annoyed at you and not the harasser.

That said, I understand how this would make you very uncomfortable, and not want to spend time with this person or have them around more than absolutely necessary for the "requirements" of the group. Even if the parties don't want to make a big issue about it, I'd say it's time to have a discussion with your spouse about what you know about what's going on, how it makes you feel, and how/whether you would like their support in changing your own level of social interaction with this person.
posted by rpfields at 7:14 AM on November 14, 2019 [1 favorite]

In addition, my spouse is friends with this person, and I definitely cannot stop inviting this person to events that we host without explaining why to my spouse, who will be upset and defensive.

It sounds to me like this is your real problem. If your spouse's response to "hey, your friend is harassing our other friends" is to push back, that's... not great. But! You haven't had this conversation yet. Maybe you'll be surprised by your spouse's reaction. In any event, I think having this conversation with your spouse, uncomfortable as it may be, is a necessary first step to doing anything about this. It's going to be way harder to deal with the social dynamics here without your spouse on board.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:36 AM on November 14, 2019 [8 favorites]

The victims have asked the harasser a number of times to just stop contacting them, and just let everyone exist in this group without insisting that everyone be besties.

When the harasser then continues contacting them and insisting on being besties without their consent, that is time for the victims to make a hard choice that it sucks to have to make: either continue being contacted and expected to be besties with the harasser, or give up socializing in the mode where "everyone" is invited to "everything."

Imagine if the victims choose this second option. What if they start organizing events just for them, and socialize with each other and not the larger group? What if they hang out in one-on-ones and double dates and restaurants that can't accept parties larger than 6 and wedding venues that can only accommodate 30 and so on? What if you still invite the whole group to whole-group stuff that you and your spouse host, and the harasser always shows up while the victims always RSVP their regrets that they just can't make it this time, but they offer to catch up over coffee the next time you (or you+spouse) want to meet up?

You don't have control over how the victims choose to deal with this, but if you were to organize little one-on-ones or small groups or meetups over coffee or other alternative ways of socializing with the victims, maybe it would help. Because it would help rule out the possibility that maybe they keep showing up at events where their harasser will likely harass them because they don't know how else to stay connected to the rest of their friends.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:31 PM on November 14, 2019 [2 favorites]