How do you know when your bike frame doesn't fit?
July 22, 2019 6:40 AM   Subscribe

I bought a bike. I can still return it. Riding it feels weird and I was not totally comfortable with the sales process. Does it really feel weird or am I weird? Details within.

I bought a Jamis Coda Sport. I had a Jamis Coda for a long time and really liked it.

Unfortunately, my most recent bike died a spectacular death and was not available at the shop to show what I like to ride.

The salesperson put me on the smallest frame, which is technically correct, I guess - I'm 5' 5". I've always ridden bikes that were the largest I could stand over, though, and this is a size down. The salesperson said I should not raise the seat because I'd pedal wrong and get ankle arthritis, but when the seat isn't raised pretty high, my legs cramp. I feel like I need to curl my spine to fit onto the frame, and I feel like it's harder to fill my lungs - I am getting out of breath really easily.

But again, technically it's the right size for my height, technically you're not supposed to stretch your legs out all the way when you pedal.

I've been riding it around as much as is commensurate with probably returning it (I've ridden about twenty five miles in shorter stretches). Is it just that I need to ride "correctly"? How can I tell if the frame is really wrong or if I'm wrong?

I felt that the sales person did not listen to me because I am not a young cis man - they, like, explained what shifters were, and told me the ankle arthritis thing and lowered the seat and suggested that I get an extra-small frame, which is utterly bananas. I felt that they were really biased toward "anyone who is not a young thin cis man is stupid and doesn't Know Bicycles".
posted by Frowner to Sports, Hobbies, & Recreation (22 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
You don't like it. Take it back and get what you like. You don't have to justify your choice. You probably spent a fair amount, and you should have something comfortable that you love.
posted by theora55 at 6:54 AM on July 22, 2019 [21 favorites]


I am 1/2 inch taller than you and ride a medium size frame. When traveling I rented a bike and they put me on small frame - while it was technically the right size - it felt weird to me. Bike sellers are not necessarily bike fitters. Take it back to the shop and tell them you would like to try a different size, you are their customer you deserve to be happy. Or if you don't like that shop, is there another bike shop (or more importantly bike fitter) you could take the bike to and describe why it feels weird? Then you know what to say when you return it. Bottom line - it doesn't feel right to you and you know your body.
posted by turtlefu at 6:55 AM on July 22, 2019 [5 favorites]


You know when your frame doesn't fit when you exhaust the limits of what you can reasonably do to make it fit - raising the seatpost, changing the stem, etc - these are all ordinary parts of setting up a bike to fit you.

A good rough rule for saddle height is high enough so that your heel can touch the pedal; that way, when your foot is on the pedal properly (ball of the foot), you have some bend to the knee. If it's too low, you aren't engaging all the leg muscles - so yeah, you'd get out of breath easier. If you feel all curled up, a longer stem (the thing that holds the handlebars) is a pretty simple fix, and a good shop has a bucket of cast-offs that should cost like twenty bucks, or be free.

If seatpost and stem adjustments don't get you there, then you know that the frame is too small.

But also you should love your bike and feel good about the sales process, so if you don't want to do that and want to return it and find a friendlier shop that lets you walk out totally jazzed about and confident in your new bike, well then that's what you totally deserve.
posted by entropone at 7:05 AM on July 22, 2019 [8 favorites]


Yeah, take that bike back - go somewhere else.

I'm a bike novice, but I have put more than 4k km on my bike that was a hand me down. It was a hybrid bike, and I use it with panier packs for commuting to work, or just biking in the country for a bit of a workout if my legs need a break from running. Around the 2k mark, while getting the rear deraileur replaced and some other stuff, I got a part (see, bike novice - I don't know what it was called (Ah, stem, thanks entropone)) that allowed the handlebars to be raised about another 6 inches. I found this *much* more comfortable for my back on rides. Sure, it made me less aerodynamic I'm sure, but I don't really race.

I'll note that this frame is 19" and 22-23" would be more appropriate to my long legged 6'1" height. Having a smaller frame means you'll be putting up the seat post higher relative to where the handlebars are (I needed to buy an extra long seat post to get the proper leg extension. If your back is curved you'll have problems fully inflating your lungs, which sounds like it happening to you. If I were buying a bike new, I personally would get the largest frame that wasn't too big for me. And even then, I'd still probably look to see how I liked it with the handlebars raised up like they are on my franken-bike.
posted by nobeagle at 7:15 AM on July 22, 2019


If it doesn't feel good, it's wrong. Bike fit is much more than just "this is the right frame for your body geometry", it's also dependent on your riding preferences. Two different frame sizes can be made to "fit" with seatpost height and stem adjustments, but the handling will be completely different. Generally, smaller frame is more aggressive/aero/tucked (again, modulo stem length), none of which sound like something you're after, but potentially something that this shop is used to optimizing for.

A full computer- and camera-aided fit (e.g. Retul or similar) sounds like overkill, but I will say that it gave me a bike out of the shop that fit like a glove, even though I was "just" commuting on it.
posted by supercres at 7:23 AM on July 22, 2019


I'd return it and go somewhere else. After a couple of decades of biking, I've come to learn to listen to what my body's telling me first and whatever the latest bike-shop folklore is second. I bought a new bike last year and a shocking number of the things said confidently by the sales guy were the direct opposite of what I'd been confidently told fifteen years previously when I bought my earlier bike from the same shop. I eventually decided that, even if their advice is usually good, there are times when they push solutions that hurt you and you need to ignore that.

I *think* from previous comments that we live in the same metro area; if you want to talk about specifics of individual bike shops by mefimail, I have a ton of opinions about who's decent and who's a nest of shitheads.
posted by COBRA! at 7:34 AM on July 22, 2019 [4 favorites]


Ankle arthritis is a wholly new one to me. (typically they claim you'll get knee problems: patellar tendonitis or something. I think this is only a real concern if you cycle dozens of miles a day or whatever)

technically you're not supposed to stretch your legs out all the way when you pedal

If they told you this I guess it depends what you mean by "all the way". If you place your heel on the pedal, your leg should be fully extended with the pedal fully down and your foot flat. That way when your toe is on the pedal your leg is ever so slightly bent (so you can power through more of the pedal rotation than if your leg was fully straight with the toe on the pedal).

This is for performance reasons though. If you're not comfortable that way, then it doesn't matter. You're not in the velodrome.

Bicycle fitting is a tricky thing, especially for women, but it can be weird for everyone. I'm over 6' but I have a bit of a long torso and short legs (relative to the "average" proportions for someone my height), so I prefer a bike that's a little shorter than I'm supposed to get, but with a longer top tube (if I can find it), and I have to do a lot of handlebar adjustments before it's just "right".

If you don't feel good on the bike then you won't ride it and so it's not right. Take it back.
posted by dis_integration at 7:36 AM on July 22, 2019 [3 favorites]


so, you have two equally valid options; you could return it for something else, or you could make changes to what you have.

if you want to make changes to what you have then your shop should be willing to work with you to make what they sold right. if they start making noises about "getting used to it" then it's definitely time for a new shop. your body is not lying to you! if it ain't right it ain't right.

more on making changes: the heel-on-pedal method is good for seat height. once you have that settled, then you have your reference point for the handlebar position. for an around-town bike, my preference is handlebars at or, ideally, above seat height. if your stem isn't installed so the extension is angled up, have the shop flip it so that it is. that will buy you some handlebar height. if your upper body still feels too cramped, have the shop swap the stem for a longer one.

according to the spec sheet for the coda sport, the 15" model comes with a 90mm long stem- you may very well feel more comfortable on a 100mm or a 110mm stem, especially if your torso or arms are long.

again, your shop should absolutely be willing to work with you on this. bikes sold off the wall are not one-size-fits-all solutions, and any shop that isn't hopelessly stuck in the past should understand that.

in fact, they should be eager to use their expertise to make it right- not to make you feel like you are wrong.
posted by One Thousand and One at 8:09 AM on July 22, 2019 [4 favorites]


I'm barely 5'4" and I just got a bike in the brand's medium size, just as a data point for you. And the guy at the bike shop was not at all condescending and made sure to fully understand how conversant I was with bike lingo before he even started helping me choose a bike. (note: I am not very conversant but he definitely did NOT talk down to me.) In the end, he had recommended that the seat be a little higher than I was comfortable with but was super happy to lower it to accommodate me.
posted by cooker girl at 8:14 AM on July 22, 2019


I feel like I need to curl my spine to fit onto the frame, and I feel like it's harder to fill my lungs

That frame doesn't fit you. I've found bike shops aren't really any better at frame fit for tall men than they are for short women, and that doesn't even account for gender. I'd say go in, tell them what you said here about the fit, and see if they are supportive and helpful or if they're just stupid bike shop bros. If they rub you the wrong way or try to make it your fault, just get your money back and go somewhere else. But if they ask questions about the fit and try to make it right, maybe they can recover from a poor initial experience.

I'm not sure that adjusting stem length or stack height is really going to make it right, but it may be worth trying different stems and/or spacers to see if one combo makes the rest of the frame work. I'm totally afraid (perhaps unreasonably afraid) of the handling changes that come with a different stem length and I'm wary of the day I go shopping for my next bike. Bike fit is like a sticker with air bubbles under it. You can minimize the problem in one place, but it may just create a problem in another place instead. I'd be willing to give stem length changes a shot on a new frame where I wasn't already used to the handling, but I'd also wonder if what I really wanted was a different frame geometry to start with (e.g. what I, an Old, think of as a longer or shorter top tube in relation to the seat tube, but what the cool kids now refer to as stack and reach). You can adjust some of that with stem length, but then you get into the geometry of the steering axis (and trail, and and and) and at some point you're maybe working against the frame geometry instead of with it.

But anyway. Start by telling them "this doesn't fit, and here's how." Maybe they can improve your experience post-sale, or maybe you get your money back and go somewhere else. When you go to the new place you can say "I tried this, in this size, and it didn't work in this way."
posted by fedward at 8:23 AM on July 22, 2019 [3 favorites]


I've shifted around on bike size a few times over the years (even though my height and reach have, unsurprisingly, not changed.) The most important thing is that it feels comfortable to you, now.

I would agree that it's not necessarily a great idea to have your saddle set so high your knees aren't bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke, but it's your knees and hips, and adjusting your seatpost only takes a minute and it'll go back to its former positions just fine.

More specific suggestion for finding another bike that suits you as well as your old one: check the geometry of your old Jamis Coda Sport and compare it with the geometry of this bike and any others you consider. It'll help with figuring out which numbers might be important to you (reach/effective top-tube length is a big one) and with vocabulary for fit problems.
posted by asperity at 8:42 AM on July 22, 2019


tl;dr It should feel good right away, or with minor adjustments made the first day. Take it back if it's not comfortable.

We can't say much specifically about the size since we're not there with you. I am not a fitting expert. However, I do know that the bike should feel good and not make you wonder whether it's you or the bike that's causing the problem.

Not sure what you mean by the word "technically" in your question.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:54 AM on July 22, 2019


One other thing: for people who haven't been on a bike in years, the first couple of weeks can be a bit of an adjustment and it may be worth just going with it and working more on fit later. You are not new to biking and are not in that category. You know where your sit bones are, and this isn't a matter of needing to acclimate yourself to biking generally.

And yeah ugh to bike sales staff that won't adjust their sales talk to your actual level of experience and intended style of riding (and not just assume.)
posted by asperity at 9:09 AM on July 22, 2019 [3 favorites]


Just 'cause you're 5'-5" doesn't mean that you necessarily need the bike that was made with one particular 5'-5" person in mind. From the sound of it, you have a long torso and short-ish legs, so the correct frame may be a little bit closer to your crotch than one-size-fits-all suggests.

Return the bike. Go somewhere else.
posted by notsnot at 9:38 AM on July 22, 2019 [5 favorites]


I'd say return the bike and explain that you're returning it because the salesperson sent you home with a bike that had a bad fit and especially explain that you felt that the salesperson was talking down to you and that they pressured you into buying it despite your reservations about the fit. It's up to you at that point whether you want to let a different salesperson from that shop try to get you a frame/setup that's a better fit or whether you want to get a replacement bike from a different shop. If I had previously had better interactions at that shop, I'd be inclined to give them a second chance (with a different salesperson), but if it was my first impression and I had other options that weren't really inconvenient I'd probably just go somewhere else.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:54 AM on July 22, 2019 [3 favorites]


The salesperson said I should not raise the seat because I'd pedal wrong and get ankle arthritis...

I've never heard that one before! Anyway, any competent salesperson should know that proper saddle height depends on your pubic bone height and your preferred riding style. The heel-on-pedal technique is a good starting point, but might not be where you wind up. Regardless, saddle height should be independent of frame size, unless the frame is too big to put the saddle low enough for you. Frame size is important for standover height and reach, but not otherwise for saddle height.

I agree with those who recommend you return the bike and either go elsewhere or find another salesperson to sell you a bike that fits you. Do you have a photo of yourself on your old bike, or a receipt that would indicate what size it was?
posted by brianogilvie at 12:05 PM on July 22, 2019


Yeah, I'm thinking your body shape is similar to mine and another's upthread where the proportion of our torso to legs is different than the bike frame's average recommendation. We have longer torsos, so need a longer frame.
posted by jillithd at 1:14 PM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]


Nthing that I’m just under 5’4” and recently bought a new bike (albeit a different brand). The small should technically have been my size, but I felt scrunched up over it and went for the medium. The bike shop were happy to sell me whichever I preferred after letting me go ride round in circles on it in the nearby streets. Bikes are too special (and expensive!) not to love the one you’ve got. Take it back.
posted by penguin pie at 3:12 PM on July 22, 2019 [3 favorites]


Take it back. It sounds like we're similar when it comes to bike fit. I bought an expensive bike a few years ago that supposedly was a perfect fit. After about a year of not enjoying riding it and so hardly riding at all, I realized I had wasted my money, and sold it for only about half what I paid. Recently I got a new bike, it was one I had had as a rental and knew that I loved. It's a "men's" frame and higher than I am "supposed" to be using, so they tried to talk me out of it, but I like the way it feels and my posture on it much better.

You know what you like. Trust yourself. You're the one who has to ride it, and you know more about you than they do.
posted by Miko at 4:58 PM on July 22, 2019


If every person of a similar height was the same we wouldn't have short and long leg jeans - aside from your personal preferences about bikes, which also count. There's nothing convincing about your salesperson's argument.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 10:48 PM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Update, more positive than I had pessimistically feared:

I returned the bike. They were very nice about it and even took back the fenders that I'd had put on. They'll have the next size up available to try mid-week (they didn't have any ready yesterday) and no one said anything about how the next size up would obviously be too big and I shouldn't have one, etc. I'd had a lot of anxiety about needing to prove that the first bike didn't fit but no one even raised the question.

To be totally fair, it might have been that the first salesperson was new (they were pretty young - not that you can't be a new salesperson at fifty, but it seems like the odds are a bit higher when you're in your early twenties) and that might have led to a bit more of the These Are The Bike Rules than you'd get from someone who had fitted more bikes.

I really hope the next size up is a good fit. It's a very nice bike. I kept getting tempted to deal with the smallness of the frame because the bike itself was so nice, and then I'd try to ride up a hill, end up gasping for breath because of being so cramped and decide against it.

Thank you for the advice and spirit-bolstering, everyone! It was extremely helpful, a sort of spiritual armor.
posted by Frowner at 6:29 AM on July 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


I am also 5'5" and do not ride the smallest frame of my Surley. Everybody has different dimensions and you may have a long inseam or maybe not, and your reach and shoulder width is all more important than your height in my opinion. My handlebars are way high, but you know what... I'm not racing, I'm biking down a city street. I also had to switch out the handlebars for narrower ones (it's made for men's shoulder width). There weren't many options and I wish I had pushed them to find better ones or gone somewhere else in that case. If it's right for you you then it's right.

I am lucky in that there are a lot of bike shops where I live and I choose to go to ones where they don't talk down to me. There's even a woman-owned, woman-focused bike shop in my town! Try a search for woman-friendly shops near you. Defaulting to what young men fit is bad business and lazy.
posted by Bunglegirl at 9:41 AM on July 23, 2019


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