Copyeditors: Is this correct?

July 17, 2019 10:26 AM

Example is: "a very well rounded student."

Example: "a very well rounded student."
If I weren't using the "very," I know "well-rounded" would get a hyphen. But isn't it the case that when the adverb "very" is used, the hyphen gets omitted? I can't seem to find the rule on the internet...

posted by noelpratt2nd to Writing & Language (14 answers total)

Best answer: It should be hyphenated according to this link. Since very is the adverb, it should still be hyphenated, but using very could be considered hyperbole or extraneous.

But!

http://www.writewithjean.com/usage-and-grammar/how-the-pros-use-hyphens/

A Chicago Manual of Style hyphenation PDF (Refer to page 3 of the pdf - your example is there "a very well-read child.")

(I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I'd hyphenate. But I also enjoy the Oxford comma.)
posted by theseventhstranger at 10:45 AM on July 17, 2019 [5 favorites]

Keep the hyphen. She's exceptionally well-rounded. She's not rounded exceptionally well.
posted by The Bellman at 11:00 AM on July 17, 2019 [32 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks!
posted by noelpratt2nd at 11:11 AM on July 17, 2019

The Bellman has it. Whether "well-rounded" is hyphenated or not might vary depending on style guide, but there is never reason to change the variation based on contextual adverbs or adjectives.
posted by 256 at 11:21 AM on July 17, 2019

I think you are thinking about the rule that "Adverbs ending in “-ly,” as well as the adverb very, do not take a hyphen in compound constructions because it is always clear that they are modifying the adjective or participle that follows them."

In "She is a very bright student," very modifies bright, but you don't need to write "very-bright" because it is clear that "very" modifies "bright."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:25 AM on July 17, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Maybe it was "She was very well known" that I'm remembering. In such a case, does the usual permanent hyphen get omitted?
posted by noelpratt2nd at 6:41 AM on July 18, 2019

Maybe it was "She was very well known" that I'm remembering. In such a case, does the usual permanent hyphen get omitted?

The Chicago Manual of Style and the AP stylebook apparently disagree on that one (scroll to the bottom of the linked post).

If we're broadening the question, can I piggyback on it to ask what people think of two examples from theseventhstranger's links? The examples are

(1) He seems to be hard nosed about changing the policy.

and

(2) The question was open ended.

These both look awful to me without a hyphen; to my mind, hard-nosed is (hard nose)+(-ed), not (hard)+(nosed), and it should have a hyphen to reflect that morphology regardless of its position in the sentence. Am I wrong here?
posted by aws17576 at 11:16 AM on July 18, 2019

(Egads, and here's a blogger on Grammarly recommending Is this hotel dog friendly? without a hyphen. Evidently my beliefs about what should and should not be hyphenated are far from universal.)
posted by aws17576 at 11:48 AM on July 18, 2019 [1 favorite]

(Egads, and here's a blogger on Grammarly recommending "Is this hotel dog friendly?" without a hyphen.)

That's correct, assuming, of course, that you are inquiring about the friendliness of the hotel dog. And he is. He is the goodest boy.
posted by The Bellman at 12:28 PM on July 18, 2019 [3 favorites]

AP recently overhauled its guidance on hyphenation. Among the changes: No hyphen is required following a form of the verb to be.
posted by Shoggoth at 12:48 PM on July 18, 2019

That hotel dog example is weird. The hyphen makes all the difference in the world for me. Without the hyphen, I read it as asking about the dog itself. With the hyphen, I read it as asking about the hotel. I guess I'm maybe way to removed from the world of grammar.... that and I work with preschoolers, so there isn't any incentive to keep my written grammar sharp.
posted by kathrynm at 2:11 PM on July 18, 2019 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I still think it possible that "she" was known very well, therefore she was very well known. And maybe that rule disappeared since I read it. But that would surprise me, notwithstanding the grammatic vagaries expressed here. Likewise, she was a student who was rounded very well, and therefore -- as an alternative way of saying it -- was a very well rounded student. Don't get me wrong, I love my hyphens...
posted by noelpratt2nd at 2:15 PM on July 18, 2019

I thought that these sorts of hyphenations are idiomatic, and the general rule is you don't break up an idiom. Is that not what the base argument is anymore? Genuinely asking, as my grammar sharpness is twenty years dull at this point.
posted by eclectist at 3:11 PM on July 18, 2019

Response by poster: It's really high-concept, man...
posted by noelpratt2nd at 12:55 PM on July 20, 2019