Comments on: What are the neighbors doing?

Question: What are the neighbors doing?

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:28:11 -0800

How can I judge whether new rural neighbors are making meth, or just growing plants?

A couple of men renting a nice house, on isolated acreage in California; they're friendly, aren't fluent in English, have big dogs, drive back and forth a lot. Purported employment doesn't fit with the vehicles and the cost of living. If they're growing plants I have no desire to get them into trouble; but if they've making meth and dumping waste chemicals into the groundwater, I have a big problem with it. I can't exactly ask them, so what should I be looking for? (besides missing teeth and general crazedness, neither of which is evident; but wouldn't be, if they're just making and not using.)

The landlord lives out of the area, and I've never met him.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:53:52 -0800

Do you have any evidence stronger than that "hunch" of yours? You're making some huge logical leaps there, buddy. I say keep your nose out of their business.

By: Orb2069

Orb2069 — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:59:18 -0800

Meth/drug labs produce a lot of waste - Here's a partial list of what to look for if you can pick their trash up or observe their comings and goings.

The easiest one to spot, IMO, is people going outside to smoke - Nobody in their right mind is going to smoke around a meth cook. Way too much ether in the air.

Where I came from, the police department gave yearly briefings to the landlords' assn. on how to spot meth lab residue and equipment: you might want to contact the police anonymously and ask if they're doing something like this in your area.

By: LarryC

LarryC — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:03:41 -0800

Good for you for not just turning a blind eye. From this article, here are a few more things to watch for:

Red flags

If a renter or neighbor seems to be going through an unusual number of propane bottles, there's a good chance he's not just a barbecue fanatic, Ames said. If the bottles are tinged with blue around the top, it's almost a sure sign they're cooking meth.

Propane bottles are used to transfer the stolen anhydrous ammonia and during the process there's a reaction that turns the bottle tops blue.

There are several other telltale signs: unusual amounts of garbage, particularly with large volumes of chemicals; red-stained coffee filters; light bulbs, which are used for smoking meth; hoses and tubing running out of a house; windows left open, even in winter; red spots on carpeting and even dead spots on the lawn.

If the occupants of a house seem secretive and unfriendly, if they build a fence, black out their windows or install extensive security systems, they might have something to hide. Renters paying their rent in cash is another tip-off.

Even their behavior, moody, aggressive and unpredictable, is a good clue, he said.

By: elisabeth r

elisabeth r — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:07:13 -0800

Purported employment doesn't fit with the vehicles and the cost of living.

Ermmm... how do you know what their employment is if you've said yourself that you can't ask them?

Besides that, you're making the assumption that meth makers would also be meth users.

And I don't know what language they speak because you didn't say, but are you one of those people who's suspicious of non-English speaking/ non-white rich people in America?

Also, other than the potential explosion hazards around a meth lab, why is it different than a weed farm?

By: theredpen

theredpen — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:11:00 -0800

Also, unusual amounts of garbage and dead spots on the lawn ... that could be any of us with kids and crappy gardening skills.

By: sophist

sophist — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:13:42 -0800

Going outside to smoke doesn't mean much. Going through the trash is the only thing I can think of, which is risky and may or may not net any results. If you are really concerned, you could hire a private investigator. An infrared imaging system would be able to detect the lights required for plants, but may be inconclusive if they are involved in other criminal activities. A parabolic microphone might be useful, but since they don't speak English you would need a translator too.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:19:48 -0800

I just learned more than I ever want to know about meth production in the course of working on a website about the meth problem. But this particular part of your phrasing:

"renting a nice house"

suggests to me that they are not producing meth. Remote California labs tend to be set up in abandoned/ramshackle properties. It's a destructive process, as others have mentioned, so producers set up in places where debris/damage is likely to go unnoticed. That, and why bother paying for a nice place where you're going to be swimming in the ugly/smelly byproducts of a meth lab anyway? It cuts into your bottom line and doesn't afford you any additional comfort-- even if you set up a meth lab in a suite at the Four Seasons (assuming you wouldn't get caught), you're going to be living in squalor after a couple days anyway.

By: JJ86

JJ86 — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:39:13 -0800

Most chemicals used in meth labs will kill plants, so it should be obvious if the place where they are dumping things has no plant life or not. Of course it could be any number of illicit enterprises, not necessarily meth. Most people who make Meth, take Meth so craziness is pretty apparent.

By: gramcracker

gramcracker — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:50:53 -0800

There's a great frontline on Meth.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:17:55 -0800

Most people who make Meth, take Meth so craziness is pretty apparent.
Not necessarily. Depends on who controls the regional meth industry.

If there's not a godawful stink of what smells like how you'd imagine fermented cat piss, they're probably not making meth, though.

By: small_ruminant

small_ruminant — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:37:44 -0800

What desuetude said: unless you're consistently upwind, you'd know it if they were making meth.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:40:24 -0800

(besides missing teeth and general craziness, neither of which is evident; but wouldn't be, if they're just making and not using.)

Belive it or not you can use meth without going crazy all the time or losing your teeth. In fact "meth mouth" is mostly caused by a general lack of dental hygiene, not from the drug itself, or at least there have been no studies linking meth use to toothloss. It's just an urban legend.

The easiest one to spot, IMO, is people going outside to smoke - Nobody in their right mind is going to smoke around a meth cook. Way too much ether in the air.

WTF? No one in their right mind wants to stink up their house with tobbaco smoke. None of my friends who smoke have ever smoked in their apartments.

By: Loto

Loto — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:42:06 -0800

You also mentioned that they are friendly. Hard drug producers generally (in my experience) tend not to be friendly.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:45:40 -0800

Wait a minute, I reread this here is the evidence you have "against" them:

*renting a nice house, on isolated acreage in California; *they're friendly,
*aren't fluent in English,
*have big dogs,
*drive back and forth a lot.
*Purported employment doesn't fit with the vehicles and the cost of living.

How the hell do you get "meth cook" from that? I assumed that you saw them bringing in lots of fertilizer, but rereading that I don't see that anywhere. I don't even know why you think they might be "growing plants".

This just seems like a bunch of paranoia to me.

By: cellphone

cellphone — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:47:05 -0800

You also mentioned that they are friendly. Hard drug producers generally (in my experience) tend not to be friendly.
posted by Loto at 10:42 AM CST on February 27 [!]

If they're dealing, they're probably actually pretty nice.

By: cellphone

cellphone — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:48:40 -0800

That said, so far you have no evidence besides their choice of vehicles and their living schedule. Until you get harder evidence (that you don't have to invade their privacy for), butt out. You sound paranoid.

By: Medieval Maven

Medieval Maven — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:59:18 -0800

Apparently people who make meth smell like ammonia. According to an educator friend of mine, they were told that if a child smells like ammonia or cat pee, that they should be on the look out for other signs.

Of course, the cat could just be peeing on their clothes, which is bad enough,but if there's no kitty . . . .

By: Medieval Maven

Medieval Maven — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:01:05 -0800

Delmoi, meth mouth is not an urban legend. Prisons spend more money on meth addicts' mouths, because the chemicals in the meth break up your enamel, and then apparently the stuff also makes you crave sugar (mountain dew, anyone?), and also you don't give a crap about brushing your teeth . . . hey presto! Meth Mouth!

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:20:55 -0800

There's a great Frontline on Meth

hey presto! Meth Mouth!

There's also a great video on the site about "meth mouth." (I put it together.)

By: frogan

frogan — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:22:49 -0800

meth mouth is not an urban legend ... the chemicals in the meth break up your enamel

You're only half right.

Meth causes your salivary glands to stop producing saliva. Combine that with an addict's general tendency to not see doctors or dentists, and you can get tooth decay.

Meth does not ruin tooth enamel all by itself.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:25:12 -0800

Around here, you can always tell the rural meth houses because there are tents up in the front lawn, since it's not fit for people to live inside.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:09:11 -0800

Mayor, a meth lab was busted last year about a half-mile up the street from me, in yes, a *nice house*. It was semi-isolated by being surrounded by bushes and trees, but the smell apparently gave it away.

That aside, it does seem that the evidence presented here is kind of thin.

By: 445supermag

445supermag — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:56:34 -0800

If by "growing plants" you mean pot, you might want to think hard about "not getting them in trouble". (If indeed they really are doing anything illegal.) There was a home invasion not all that long ago in my county where the people invading thought they were at the growers house, but were actually at a neighbor's. A couple of days later they came back to the right house, but that was no consolation for the people who were held up and beat up at the first house.

wife of 445supermag