Reasonable expectations, real estate buying edition
May 9, 2019 3:08 AM Subscribe
In the process of buying a home in Vermont using a buyer's broker and a lawyer, and I'm not sure if I'm asking for more handholding than usually provided. In the negotiation process, the broker and lawyer don't respond to emails promptly and it's usually with some vague, "people are working on this and we will let you know." What's reasonable?
I have an accepted offer on a house with a closing date 6 weeks from now. During inspection, some big issues arose and a list was sent to the sellers a week ago and I've heard nothing since.
The P&S inspection addendum only gave ME a deadline to back out based on inspection results, no deadline for sellers to respond. That deadline was 2 days ago; neither the lawyer nor the broker reminded me.
Currently, I'm emailing both of them daily asking for updates and yesterday's response was that the lawyer's team is working on this and they will tell me when they know something. The broker (who answered for the lawyer) said the seller is getting estimates, but nothing more than that.
It's a big move and I'm clearly anxious, but because I'm new to this I'm not sure if my expectations are reasonable and I obviously want to be assured on some level this deal is a go.
Is it reasonable for me to ask who is doing what, precisely what they're doing to close this deal, and what timelines are in effect? How to best get these people to work for me?
I have an accepted offer on a house with a closing date 6 weeks from now. During inspection, some big issues arose and a list was sent to the sellers a week ago and I've heard nothing since.
The P&S inspection addendum only gave ME a deadline to back out based on inspection results, no deadline for sellers to respond. That deadline was 2 days ago; neither the lawyer nor the broker reminded me.
Currently, I'm emailing both of them daily asking for updates and yesterday's response was that the lawyer's team is working on this and they will tell me when they know something. The broker (who answered for the lawyer) said the seller is getting estimates, but nothing more than that.
It's a big move and I'm clearly anxious, but because I'm new to this I'm not sure if my expectations are reasonable and I obviously want to be assured on some level this deal is a go.
Is it reasonable for me to ask who is doing what, precisely what they're doing to close this deal, and what timelines are in effect? How to best get these people to work for me?
I will say, though, if there was a deadline that went past without anyone letting you know about any action--extension of the deadline, discussion between your team and theirs about flexibility or timelines--then yeah, I would not be okay with that.
It's true that there is likely nothing to do but wait, but you should have an idea of what is being waited for and who is doing the waiting. I wouldn't expect to hear every day, but when there's a big change or once a week if there's no motion would seem reasonable to me.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:26 AM on May 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
It's true that there is likely nothing to do but wait, but you should have an idea of what is being waited for and who is doing the waiting. I wouldn't expect to hear every day, but when there's a big change or once a week if there's no motion would seem reasonable to me.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:26 AM on May 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Is it reasonable for me to ask who is doing what, precisely what they're doing to close this deal, and what timelines are in effect? How to best get these people to work for me?"
Yes, it is absolutely reasonable to ask this. They may not have the information you need yet if they are working on getting estimates for different types of work. I'd expect a few weeks at least to get this info. The construction season is just getting ramped up and typically most contractors have more work than they can get to. If they don't they are either just getting started or no one wants to work with them for some reason.
I'd try giving your realtor a call and see if they can give you a little more background in a conversation vs emailing daily.
posted by bookrach at 4:33 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yes, it is absolutely reasonable to ask this. They may not have the information you need yet if they are working on getting estimates for different types of work. I'd expect a few weeks at least to get this info. The construction season is just getting ramped up and typically most contractors have more work than they can get to. If they don't they are either just getting started or no one wants to work with them for some reason.
I'd try giving your realtor a call and see if they can give you a little more background in a conversation vs emailing daily.
posted by bookrach at 4:33 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
I guess I am a little confused by this process....you made an offer, the inspection showed some issues, and you sent a list of those issues to the seller? But was the list accompanied by a revised offer, either stipulating that the seller would fix these issues or reducing your offer value? I am surprised it's been left to the seller to do the legwork here. But perhaps things work differently where you are. In our case, our agent sent a revised offer in the night we had our inspection (based on inspector's rough estimates). It was all very fast.
Pro tip: never count on the seller fixing things properly. If given the opportunity, take the money and fix it yourself!
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 4:44 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Pro tip: never count on the seller fixing things properly. If given the opportunity, take the money and fix it yourself!
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 4:44 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: was the list accompanied by a revised offer, either stipulating that the seller would fix these issues or reducing your offer value?
Apparently not. The seller's broker was just given the list with a stipulation that I want a response before moving forward.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:37 AM on May 9, 2019
Apparently not. The seller's broker was just given the list with a stipulation that I want a response before moving forward.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:37 AM on May 9, 2019
Best answer: I just bought a house (in Illinois) and had similar issues with wanting more communication than I got. And it was about the inspection stuff, too - our lawyer sent our list of "these are the things we want fixed" to their lawyer and the sellers were slow to respond. We also had to negotiate to get a fridge and range installed because our mortgage required it. We didn't re-sign a new contract because we didn't change the agreed-upon price and the fridge and range were included in our initial contract; apparently the emails were sufficient agreement in writing.
I can say that it all worked out in the end (moving in tomorrow!) but to this day I am unclear about how it was possible that the Attorney Review deadline came and went before we and the sellers actually came to an agreement about what they would fix and no one except us seemed concerned about it.
You won't be able to get information your team doesn't have yet, but asking "what are the timelines here, what happens if they drag their feet for another week, are there deadlines in effect that could nix this deal if this takes too long?" etc. is very reasonable. In our case it was easier to have a phone call with our attorney even though we typically communicated by email, where she was able to calm our concerns somewhat.
posted by misskaz at 6:22 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
I can say that it all worked out in the end (moving in tomorrow!) but to this day I am unclear about how it was possible that the Attorney Review deadline came and went before we and the sellers actually came to an agreement about what they would fix and no one except us seemed concerned about it.
You won't be able to get information your team doesn't have yet, but asking "what are the timelines here, what happens if they drag their feet for another week, are there deadlines in effect that could nix this deal if this takes too long?" etc. is very reasonable. In our case it was easier to have a phone call with our attorney even though we typically communicated by email, where she was able to calm our concerns somewhat.
posted by misskaz at 6:22 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Currently, I'm emailing both of them daily asking for updates and yesterday's response was that the lawyer's team is working on this and they will tell me when they know something. The broker (who answered for the lawyer) said the seller is getting estimates, but nothing more than that.
Unless you assume they're lying, those are answers.
Use the telephone if there's some additional nuance you need to hear.
...gave ME a deadline to back out based on inspection results,...That deadline was 2 days ago
You share the blame for letting this deadline go by. That said, if you want to back out, or threaten to back out, two days is probably not an unreasonable delay for notifying them of this.
Finally, call the seller and ask them for the full story on what's happening. There are too many filters between you and the facts. It's possible you've misunderstood some "speak only thru lawyers" idea. It's always appropriate for the principals (you and the seller) to speak directly. Use the telephone.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:09 AM on May 9, 2019
Unless you assume they're lying, those are answers.
Use the telephone if there's some additional nuance you need to hear.
...gave ME a deadline to back out based on inspection results,...That deadline was 2 days ago
You share the blame for letting this deadline go by. That said, if you want to back out, or threaten to back out, two days is probably not an unreasonable delay for notifying them of this.
Finally, call the seller and ask them for the full story on what's happening. There are too many filters between you and the facts. It's possible you've misunderstood some "speak only thru lawyers" idea. It's always appropriate for the principals (you and the seller) to speak directly. Use the telephone.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:09 AM on May 9, 2019
Best answer: Currently, I'm emailing both of them daily
Just a little local context. Many people, professional people, don't really work well in the email sphere around here so it might be worth calling or even texting to explain where you're at and what you're expecting. Looks like you did not back out, so you are most likely buying this house (I don't think it's anyone's job to remind you?) but that should be okay. Moving the closing date is pretty normal also.
was the list accompanied by a revised offer, either stipulating that the seller would fix these issues or reducing your offer value?
Yeah I'm confused by this as well. Maybe have a phone convo with your broker (who works for you) and explain what the situation is for you, because usually there's some sort of "Fix these issues or else there will be consequences" negotiation. I agree with everyone else, getting estimates is something that always takes longer than you think and getting the work done sometimes longer still (depending on if we're talking things like a roof or more basic things like some plumbing repair). Don't contact the lawyer anymore, they cost a fortune. Lean on your broker a little bit (in a friendly way) and think about how you'll play things if the seller continues to not have updates.
Keep in mind that all the people involved in this transaction may be friends, so try to stay cool and just be kindly brontosaurus here. Slowly this will most likely work out.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Just a little local context. Many people, professional people, don't really work well in the email sphere around here so it might be worth calling or even texting to explain where you're at and what you're expecting. Looks like you did not back out, so you are most likely buying this house (I don't think it's anyone's job to remind you?) but that should be okay. Moving the closing date is pretty normal also.
was the list accompanied by a revised offer, either stipulating that the seller would fix these issues or reducing your offer value?
Yeah I'm confused by this as well. Maybe have a phone convo with your broker (who works for you) and explain what the situation is for you, because usually there's some sort of "Fix these issues or else there will be consequences" negotiation. I agree with everyone else, getting estimates is something that always takes longer than you think and getting the work done sometimes longer still (depending on if we're talking things like a roof or more basic things like some plumbing repair). Don't contact the lawyer anymore, they cost a fortune. Lean on your broker a little bit (in a friendly way) and think about how you'll play things if the seller continues to not have updates.
Keep in mind that all the people involved in this transaction may be friends, so try to stay cool and just be kindly brontosaurus here. Slowly this will most likely work out.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
What jessamyn said. Email is usually the tertiary option after mail and phone call. And maybe even fourth behind "I'll chat when I see you at ____"
Good luck and let us know when you are ready for a meetup :)
posted by terrapin at 8:52 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Good luck and let us know when you are ready for a meetup :)
posted by terrapin at 8:52 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Just pick up the phone and call both. Get your questions answered and find out by when you should expect to hear from them next. If that date passes without contact you call them again...
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:18 PM on May 9, 2019
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:18 PM on May 9, 2019
Response by poster: An update a week later: despite leaving messages my lawyer's not responding and the broker says the sellers got estimates, felt the estimates were too high and are getting more, no further details. They've still agreed to no repairs. I am trying to be kindly brontosaurus but come on, right?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:42 AM on May 15, 2019
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:42 AM on May 15, 2019
Major repairs might not be doable in the next five weeks. Even if it can theoretically happen, rushed work will be some combination of overpriced (unacceptable to the seller) and shoddy (unacceptable to you). Especially if the closing date is critical for some reason, I think you need to find contractors on your own and get independent estimates, so you can request a specific concession ($$$ adjustment...) and set a meaningful boundary (...or the deal’s off). As it is, the seller has some incentives to slow-walk the process. The longer it takes, the better their chances of finding a lowball price quote to minimize the concession. The closer the closing date gets, the more willing you might be to cave.
In other words, I suggest actively improving your negotiating position.
posted by jon1270 at 5:14 AM on May 16, 2019
In other words, I suggest actively improving your negotiating position.
posted by jon1270 at 5:14 AM on May 16, 2019
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You can ask when the seller expects to know something, but that might not help much because they can’t control how fast the contractors respond. If you can access the property yourself then maybe bring in a contractor of your own choosing... probably smart anyhow, but you’ll face the same delays and the sellers might not accept what your contractor says. None of this is unusual, so try to soothe yourself. If something turns into a pumpkin in 6 weeks, devise a backup plan.
posted by jon1270 at 4:16 AM on May 9, 2019 [2 favorites]