How close can we really be when we have such disparate views?

April 25, 2019 8:48 PM

A new friend and neighbor adamantly believes that modified Harley riders have every right to ride wherever they wish. Rap and bass music, meanwhile, should be wiped from the face of the earth. She sees no inconsistency in this view and resists all our efforts to reveal it.

Last fall we moved to a mixed apartment and owned condo community favored by those of us who appreciate quiet, natural surroundings. The tagline on the community sign at the entrance reads, "A quiet place to live." At the same time we're tormented by no less than four vehicles (3 motorcycles and one truck) that reach 100+ decibels from our balcony using an iPhone app. When one of these roared past our open window tonight as we entertained our neighbor it prompted a discussion that has us confounded.

We can handle differences of opinion but, on something so integral to the very peace of our home, we wonder how close we should realistically try to be. Our new friend landed on, "bikers can't help it if a used bike has straight pipes" while we must have sounded naive with our answer about the importance of being "good global and local neighbors." We suspect we did nothing to change her mind and, as a lifelong smoker who says her own muffler is on the loud side, perhaps this is impossible.

We'd love to hear from any others who've had similar encounters and how you advise going forward. We're fine with being a good neighbor and friend, it's just that we'll have to back away a little from the daily contact we've already established and we don't exactly know how to do this gracefully.

posted by R2WeTwo to Human Relations (27 answers total)

Are you upset at her lack of compassion for you or at her apparent racist double standards? I suspect you'll get more relevant answers if you could specify.
posted by lazuli at 8:54 PM on April 25, 2019 [10 favorites]

This seems like such an incredibly minor difference of opinion that I'm pretty confused by what you're asking. You want to know how to stop being friends with her because she's insufficiently mad at loud strangers? Or is there more to the disagreement?
posted by brainmouse at 8:59 PM on April 25, 2019 [23 favorites]

There are no people on Earth who don't hold inconsistent or even hypocritical views on things based on personal preferences. None.

I don't know enough about bass music to be able to tell if you're mentioning those genres as examples of her biases against black people or if they're just examples of other loud things that she hypocritically doesn't like. If it's the former, then you have a difference in values. If it's the latter, you have a difference in how much you are annoyed by specific loud things, which seems like a very strange thing to care about in terms of a friendship.

If you really need to do a slow fade, then you can do that -- take longer to respond to text messages, extend fewer invitations to visit, refuse occasional invitations to visit. Gradually ramp up those moments of rejecting the connection until the need comes further and further apart.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:04 PM on April 25, 2019 [8 favorites]

Response by poster: You nailed it lazuli. A lack of compassion exactly. Thanks.
posted by R2WeTwo at 9:17 PM on April 25, 2019

Response by poster: It is both, Jacqueline. This music happens to be the only thing she opposes and we suspect it’s not a coincidence.
posted by R2WeTwo at 9:20 PM on April 25, 2019

Response by poster: It doesn’t feel minor at all, brainmouse, when the decibels are bearing down. We want to report them while she defends them. We’re talking about our home after all.
posted by R2WeTwo at 9:24 PM on April 25, 2019

You nailed it lazuli.

This sounds like just a difference of opinion, then.
posted by lazuli at 9:33 PM on April 25, 2019 [2 favorites]

Is she going to stop you from reporting them? Is she going to defend them to whatever body you'd be reporting them to? Or is it just they bug you and trigger some empathy in her? The fact that she disagrees about this just doesn't seem like an issue?

That said, you don't need to justify to me why you don't want to be friends with someone. Slow fade as said above, make yourself less available, and move on. But she will not see this as as big as issue as you do.
posted by brainmouse at 9:39 PM on April 25, 2019 [4 favorites]

I don’t understand, has she somehow physically barred you from making a phone call and reporting them? The great thing about being autonomous adults is that you get to have your opinion and act on it and she does too. You don’t need her permission or approval to report an annoyance and by the same token, if the noise doesn’t bother your neighbour, she gets to let it slide.

You also don’t have to agree on everything to be friends, in fact it’s impossible. So go and report them and then have a drink with her later. If the topic annoys you, don’t bring it up. That’s how you stay friends.
posted by Jubey at 9:43 PM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: The last time we hoped such differences could be managed a four-year friendship with a couple ended suddenly when she sent us one of those “birther” emails. We responded with, “Are you both Birthers now” and they took offense. We still don't know exactly how but we do know that it was never a deep friendship. Maybe we should have asked this time, “Is this a portent of things to come?” We believe we have our answers now. Thanks, everyone!
posted by R2WeTwo at 10:58 PM on April 25, 2019

Music is not the same thing as ambient noise. But what counts as music varies from person to person. And even if you love music (or the sound of American iron through a straight pipe is music to your ears) you don’t always want to hear it or hear it loud enough to drown out the world. I don’t think you can infer that someone is racist for preferring loud motors to trap beats. I know plenty of POCs who love loud motors too (and the two go together in the world of hip hop-centric car customization, or have you never seen and heard a wicked slab with a sub? ) I know (way many) white people who seem to love hip hop but are also racist in various ways. I know POC who hate loud music of all sorts. I know white people who think no one else exists when they’re jamming.

With several others I think you are plating a whole family-sized can of beans here. If you’ve known someone that long and still wonder if they’re prejudiced or selfish or hypocritical in ways that exceed the perfectly normal human range of imperfection you’re willing to tolerate in your quiet place you live, you’d probably know it from far less subtle signs than preferring the sound of a chopped hog Harley to an 808 through a sub.
posted by spitbull at 3:45 AM on April 26, 2019 [5 favorites]

Oh and a “birther email” is one of those less subtle signs.
posted by spitbull at 3:51 AM on April 26, 2019

Response by poster: With respect, spitbull, we've known her for three days. Yes, we've been here longer but she tends to keep to herself and we only began socializing three days ago. I do agree that we should have trusted our own sense of the signs rather than trouble MeFi.
posted by R2WeTwo at 5:17 AM on April 26, 2019

Three days makes a whole lot of difference versus the months your original post made it seem. You don't need to slow fade. Just stop asking her over and be polite but busy if she asks you over. Do the kinds of favours you would do any neighbour, but don't get further involved.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:31 AM on April 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

I think there are two ways to handle these kinds of disagreements while staying friendly, and which one you pick depends on your own comfort level.
1) Gentle pushback with I-statements. "Hmm, I don't agree with that. The motorcycle sounds really hurt my ears/I actually like listening to loud bass music"
2) Just don't discuss these subjects. "well, Susan, I disagree on that but I don't want to get into an argument" followed by a change of subject.
posted by capricorn at 5:51 AM on April 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

Mod note: Please limit your follow-ups to essential clarifications and the like, OP. Not a big deal -- just don't turn this into an extended back-and-forth. Thanks!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 5:55 AM on April 26, 2019

Yes, we've been here longer but she tends to keep to herself and we only began socializing three days ago.

This will work itself out by you both failing to plan another get-together. It’s normal for new neighbors to have a one-time visit to get to know each other and then not socialize much otherwise—she won’t think “but I thought we were going to be best friends?!?!” Just smile, wave, say “nice weather today, right?!” and keep walking when you see her around.
posted by sallybrown at 8:12 AM on April 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Three days in? She's not a friend, she's an acquaintance.

The world would not be the same if we only associated people with people who shared exactly our same point of views and beliefs. So do what lots of other human beings do - agree to disagree, keep things neutral, and live your own lives.
posted by HeyAllie at 8:38 AM on April 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

I can't help but comment that

• An iPhone app is a poor substitute for an actual sound level meter. I've personally tested this (not in any comprehensive manner, but enough to convince myself)(YMMV).
• "100+ dB" is meaningless without the distance between the sound source and the measuring device.
• Let's say your balcony is 10 meters away from the offending sound source. A 100dB reading on your balcony implies an SPL of 120dB at 1 meter from the sound source. From this I can infer that:
  • The person producing the sound is permanently damaging their hearing unless they are wearing ear protection. Which they probably are not.
  • That's not "A quiet place to live".
  • You've got neighbors who are at least as unhappy as you are about the situation.
  Moving on ...
  • Many motorcyclists believe that "loud pipes save lives". If this didn't come up in your conversation with your neighbor, I'm surprised. My point is that she may well lump loud pipes in with things like ambulance sirens and other loud things we accept because we believe they serve the greater good.
  • Or not.
  • Her comment that "bikers can't help it if a used bike has straight pipes" had me rolling on the floor. Almost all motorcyclists customize their bikes, and modding / replacing the exhaust system is one of - perhaps the - most common modification of them all.
  • I've never heard of anyone swapping in quieter pipes without some kind of ticket or legal action hovering over their heads.
  • I may have this wrong but - is the neighbor assumed to be racist because she dislikes rap music? Is it possible that she simply dislikes music that glorifies violence, guns and drug use, idealizes the "gangster" lifestyle, debases women by calling them offensive names, and other stuff like that? There's rap music out there that doesn't have those characteristics, but most people haven't heard it.
  • If this is really a make-or-break issue, then sure, just fade on her.
  • Be forewarned that life gets boring when everyone you know agrees with you on everything.

posted by doctor tough love at 9:23 AM on April 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

My mom has a kind neighbor who has been amazing to her for years, seriously beyond next-level neighboring (she cleaned in mom's basement after a flood because she knew mom shouldn't go down there). I recently learned from mom that she's also an anti-vaxxer, which is a deeply held belief disagreement. They agree to disagree because they've built years of mutual respect on many other topics. Having a neighbor who hasn't already become that sort of good friend means that backing off and being friendly-acquaintance neighbors is the easy choice. It may be a little awkward to not invite her over or accept her offers for a bit, but if you end up "busy" for a bit and try for quick visits over agreeable subjects as you wean away, you'll all survive the backing off.

On a separate note, I wonder if you might not want to look into eventually moving somewhere that's Actually quieter. That kind of noise would also drive me bonkers.
posted by ldthomps at 9:28 AM on April 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

Dr Tough Love, have you heard bestselling radio hip hop within the past 20 years? Because your description of mainstream hip hop isn’t recognizable to someone who has. Meanwhile, “music that glorifies violence, guns and drug use, idealizes the "gangster" lifestyle, debases women...” could cover large swaths of Irish drinking songs, some classical opera, and at least a plurality of American folk and blues songs just as well. You don’t sound any more grounded in reality than the neighbor in this matter — that is to say, not much.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 11:58 AM on April 26, 2019 [11 favorites]

> With respect, spitbull, we've known her for three days.

My goodness, this much emotional turmoil over someone you've known for three days who has differing opinions about motorcycle noise seems like a bit much, and you'd be better off just letting it go. Either just accept that this person has different feelings about motorcycle noise than you do or just stop being "friends" with this person who you barely know.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:13 PM on April 26, 2019

Response by poster: My goodness, this much emotional turmoil over someone you've known for three days...She did a kind thing for us and we thanked her with an impromptu supper at which we sort of bonded around each learning to be sociable again. Next morning we awoke to thoughtful texts and that afternoon we had fun playing games at the clubhouse. Is this clarification too much, staff, or am I once more being entirely inappropriate?
posted by R2WeTwo at 2:32 PM on April 26, 2019

Have you considered that you might be making your (lovely-sounding, if a bit empathetically limited) neighbour bear the brunt of your dissatisfaction with the place you have moved to?

I mean, your relationship to the world is where you have most power: it is likely that you can't do much about the noise, except move again, but you can, if you want, end your friendship with this person. Both sources of dissatisfaction are about your relationship to others, and you may perhaps be realising that you can't force others to change - the easiest thing - perhaps the only thing you can change is your relationship with them. Reading between the lines, your habit in the past may have been to run away or push away from things you don't like, and it sounds like that is not getting you to the place you want to be.

In every conflict, there is the potential for change. But be open to the idea that the change may be in you.
posted by cogat at 4:11 PM on April 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

She did a kind thing for us and we thanked her with an impromptu supper at which we sort of bonded around each learning to be sociable again.

If you are both learning how to be sociable again and you’ve talked about this, maybe you can confront her directly—“we really enjoyed hanging out with you but I’ve had bad experiences in the past with finding out people I got along with had harmful views. When you make the distinction between Harleys and rap I worried that your views have to do with stereotypes about the people who enjoy each. Do you object to rock music as well? I’m not trying to piss you off, I just figured we both are rusty at making new friends and it was worth asking you rather than assuming.”
posted by sallybrown at 10:39 PM on April 26, 2019

I sort of see the logic in her answer. Loud music is a choice. But once you have a loud vehicle, it makes noise no matter what you do. So there's a difference.

Imagine if you had a squalling infant in the condo next door ruining your sleep. Would you still be surprised if your new friend saw a difference between that and loud music?
posted by mono blanco at 5:29 AM on April 27, 2019

Your neighbor has a common position among middle-aged bikers (prevalently but not exclusively). It's one enforced by police, who cite young people for stereos, but Easy Rider it on the weekend (or ignore those who do). You will not change her view. She doesn't care what you think. You might as well ask her not to throw cigarette butts in the street or to clean up after her dog. My inner amateur-psychologist is pretty sure a good part of the point of these behaviors is that they piss people off. Talking about it will do nothing. So either avoid the subject or avoid the neighbor.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 12:51 PM on April 29, 2019