I repaired my sink. Help me get my landlord to pay for it.
March 30, 2019 4:58 PM Subscribe
We rent our apartment directly from the owners (a married couple), no property management company involved. The owners do most of their own maintenance, but unfortunately are not very competent. We fixed a sink that they said could not be made to work, and we'd like to deduct the costs from our rent. How do we approach the conversation?
Details: the master bathroom has a double sink. It featured in the pictures we saw of the apartment on Craigslist, so we were pretty upset when we moved in and discovered that it didn't work. (Yes, I know we should have checked it before signing the lease. The last tenants were still there and actually present when we saw the apartment, and it just felt too awkward to be testing all the fixtures. Our bad.) We asked about it when we did the move-in walkthrough with the landlords, and they said that there used to be a single sink there, then they installed a fixture with two sinks, and only then discovered that there wasn't enough water pressure. They said it couldn't be fixed.
To make a long story short, it turned out that the only thing that was wrong was that the faucet aerator was clogged. One trip to the hardware store and $10 in parts (replacement aerators plus handy little wrench thing to remove the old one) and both sinks now work. There is no problem at all with the water pressure (even with both sinks on at the same time and the shower in the bathroom going at the same time!). I figure my time is worth about $40 (one hour for trip to hardware store and installation), and I'd like to deduct the total ($50 for parts + labor) from our rent. Points in our favor:
The landlords are more or less nice, they used to live in the property themselves, and they aren't slumlords. I think this is their only rental property. They have fixed a couple things for us when we asked, but complained about the cost. (Literally, the husband complained about a $200 repair as I was handing him a $3200 check.) This is just to say that they're not uninterested in maintaining the property, but it seems like they're not willing to go to great lengths.
I actually don't even care about the money that much, but I'm upset that (a) they initially concealed the fact that the sink didn't work, and (b) they lied about it not being repairable, especially when it was such a trivial fix. I would actually be satisfied with an apology/acknowledgment, but I doubt that will happen, so I thought I'd propose a one-time $50 rent reduction instead.
How should we approach this conversation? Or should we just let it go?
Details: the master bathroom has a double sink. It featured in the pictures we saw of the apartment on Craigslist, so we were pretty upset when we moved in and discovered that it didn't work. (Yes, I know we should have checked it before signing the lease. The last tenants were still there and actually present when we saw the apartment, and it just felt too awkward to be testing all the fixtures. Our bad.) We asked about it when we did the move-in walkthrough with the landlords, and they said that there used to be a single sink there, then they installed a fixture with two sinks, and only then discovered that there wasn't enough water pressure. They said it couldn't be fixed.
To make a long story short, it turned out that the only thing that was wrong was that the faucet aerator was clogged. One trip to the hardware store and $10 in parts (replacement aerators plus handy little wrench thing to remove the old one) and both sinks now work. There is no problem at all with the water pressure (even with both sinks on at the same time and the shower in the bathroom going at the same time!). I figure my time is worth about $40 (one hour for trip to hardware store and installation), and I'd like to deduct the total ($50 for parts + labor) from our rent. Points in our favor:
- We've improved their property.
- My labor is cheaper than hiring a real plumber to do it.
The landlords are more or less nice, they used to live in the property themselves, and they aren't slumlords. I think this is their only rental property. They have fixed a couple things for us when we asked, but complained about the cost. (Literally, the husband complained about a $200 repair as I was handing him a $3200 check.) This is just to say that they're not uninterested in maintaining the property, but it seems like they're not willing to go to great lengths.
I actually don't even care about the money that much, but I'm upset that (a) they initially concealed the fact that the sink didn't work, and (b) they lied about it not being repairable, especially when it was such a trivial fix. I would actually be satisfied with an apology/acknowledgment, but I doubt that will happen, so I thought I'd propose a one-time $50 rent reduction instead.
How should we approach this conversation? Or should we just let it go?
You could also frame it as, "Good news! We've saved you [the cost to replace the thing that couldn't be fixed]. We spent about $XX doing this..."
posted by entropone at 5:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by entropone at 5:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
As a landlord, I would not compensate my tenant for a repair they made on their own without an agreement up front, and I certainly wouldn’t pay them for labor.
posted by OrangeVelour at 5:23 PM on March 30, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by OrangeVelour at 5:23 PM on March 30, 2019 [27 favorites]
You got what you wanted, it cost you ten bucks, unless ten bucks means you won't eat this week, let it go. Also, don't jump to "lied," when you already determined they were merely incompetent.
posted by sageleaf at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2019 [34 favorites]
posted by sageleaf at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2019 [34 favorites]
Best answer: It cost you ten dollars. Ten dollars. I would look at it this way, you can either tell them you repaired their sink free of charge and build some goodwill that might work in your favour some day or you can nickel and dime them, demanding way more money than it cost you, probably not get anywhere because it’s a ten dollar fix that they didnt authorise or ask for and potentially develop some really negative feelings that could eventually cost a lot more than ten dollars. Let it go.
posted by Jubey at 5:33 PM on March 30, 2019 [79 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 5:33 PM on March 30, 2019 [79 favorites]
Mrs. Proust and I own a 2-family house. We live in one unit and rent the other. We have always had good relations with our tenants and we try to keep things in good working order.
If my tenant came to me and said, "I needed to fix the foobar. The part cost $10. Can I deduct it from the rent?" I'd say "fine" and be happy that the tenant was competent and could deal with things. Totally fine.
If the tenant said, "I needed to fix the foobar. The part cost $10 plus I want to charge you $40 for my labor, so I'd like to deduct $50 from the rent," I'd think, "what a fucking clueless asshole." I would not pay the $40. I would still probably pay the $10, but I'd think poorly of the tenant from that point forward. It would color all of our interactions.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 6:52 PM on March 30, 2019 [16 favorites]
If my tenant came to me and said, "I needed to fix the foobar. The part cost $10. Can I deduct it from the rent?" I'd say "fine" and be happy that the tenant was competent and could deal with things. Totally fine.
If the tenant said, "I needed to fix the foobar. The part cost $10 plus I want to charge you $40 for my labor, so I'd like to deduct $50 from the rent," I'd think, "what a fucking clueless asshole." I would not pay the $40. I would still probably pay the $10, but I'd think poorly of the tenant from that point forward. It would color all of our interactions.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 6:52 PM on March 30, 2019 [16 favorites]
You felt awkward about turning on the faucet, but it’s your landlord’s fault? ask if you can deduct the cost of the parts, and take an assertiveness training course.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:58 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 6:58 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I should add, I had a tenant like you. When I say like you, I mean I had a tenant who is taking the approach you seem to be leaning towards (my advice given up thread). He moved in and asked if he could fix a few things that needed it around the house. He did it for free. He put in a vegetable garden and made the lawn better. He paid his rent on time. He was a great tenant, he never asked to be paid back either.
In turn, when my property manager told me it was time to bump the rent up, I didn’t do it. I wanted to look after him and I also didn’t want him leaving and risk getting someone else in who wouldn’t take of the place or worse still, trash it. My tenant and I had a great relationship and I never even met him.
He stayed there for years and I eventually did bump up the rent slightly but he always paid less than market value because I liked having someone I trusted there more than a few extra bucks. Finally when it came time for me to sell, I gave him first right of refusal to purchase it (he didn’t.) None of this would have happened if he’d fixed the washing machine at the beginning and demanded payment. Good tenants are worth keeping.
posted by Jubey at 8:03 PM on March 30, 2019 [26 favorites]
In turn, when my property manager told me it was time to bump the rent up, I didn’t do it. I wanted to look after him and I also didn’t want him leaving and risk getting someone else in who wouldn’t take of the place or worse still, trash it. My tenant and I had a great relationship and I never even met him.
He stayed there for years and I eventually did bump up the rent slightly but he always paid less than market value because I liked having someone I trusted there more than a few extra bucks. Finally when it came time for me to sell, I gave him first right of refusal to purchase it (he didn’t.) None of this would have happened if he’d fixed the washing machine at the beginning and demanded payment. Good tenants are worth keeping.
posted by Jubey at 8:03 PM on March 30, 2019 [26 favorites]
I'm a landlord and in this situation I would pay you for the part and definitely not for your labor, since it's not a necessary repair I was intending to perform. And there's no reason why I would assume my tenant is doing $40 an hour handyman quality labor, anyway.
Please don't nickel and dime over something this small unless you are in dire financial straits and are doing it out of necessity, and make sure you test the fixtures next time you move. Just let him know you fixed it, ask for $10 if you want, and let the $40 be paid in good will instead of a rent deduction.
posted by zdravo at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Please don't nickel and dime over something this small unless you are in dire financial straits and are doing it out of necessity, and make sure you test the fixtures next time you move. Just let him know you fixed it, ask for $10 if you want, and let the $40 be paid in good will instead of a rent deduction.
posted by zdravo at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice, everybody. We're going to let it go, mention that we fixed the sink next time we see the landlords, and hope to reap some goodwill in the future.
("Lied" may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but they've made a whole bunch of dubious claims about various things that they say can't be fixed, and we're starting to get pretty annoyed with them, given how expensive the rent is here.)
posted by number9dream at 8:43 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
("Lied" may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but they've made a whole bunch of dubious claims about various things that they say can't be fixed, and we're starting to get pretty annoyed with them, given how expensive the rent is here.)
posted by number9dream at 8:43 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Caveat: I'm not a landlord.
(1) I can imagine a landlord being annoyed that you attempted to fix something like plumbing without asking their permission first. What if you'd actually made it worse or caused a leak or something?
(2) I think it depends how expensive your rent is/how big a deal $10 is to you. If your rent is $200 and that $10 is significant in your budget, it seems potentially reasonable to ask for it. If your rent is $3000 and the $10 means nothing to you and this is all about principle, I think you'd come off looking cheap (even though I totally understand why you'd be annoyed on principle here and I suspect this isn't really about money).
Personally, I'd enjoy my newly-working sink and say nothing rather than risk your landlord's annoyance (1) and/or risk looking cheap (2).
posted by sunflower16 at 5:52 AM on March 31, 2019
(1) I can imagine a landlord being annoyed that you attempted to fix something like plumbing without asking their permission first. What if you'd actually made it worse or caused a leak or something?
(2) I think it depends how expensive your rent is/how big a deal $10 is to you. If your rent is $200 and that $10 is significant in your budget, it seems potentially reasonable to ask for it. If your rent is $3000 and the $10 means nothing to you and this is all about principle, I think you'd come off looking cheap (even though I totally understand why you'd be annoyed on principle here and I suspect this isn't really about money).
Personally, I'd enjoy my newly-working sink and say nothing rather than risk your landlord's annoyance (1) and/or risk looking cheap (2).
posted by sunflower16 at 5:52 AM on March 31, 2019
If something about the landlord is bothering you, deal with that issue directly rather than using something else as a proxy to vent your frustration. It’s ok to ask for a call or sit down so you can discuss “dubious claims about various things that they say can't be fixed.” Personally I’d say something like: “Great news! We were able to diagnose the problem with the sink and fix it pretty quickly. Could we schedule a time to talk about some of the other repairs we’d like around the house to find out more information about what you’ve already tried so we can all agree on a plan for how to tackle them? Turns out we’re pretty handy with repairs!”
There’s nothing inappropriate about asking directly to repair parts of the home or having an adult discussion about frustrations in the landlord/tenant relationship. If I were the landlord I’d find that far preferable to passive aggressive communications where my tenants are pouring all those piled-on frustrations into a fight over a $10 sink part.
posted by sallybrown at 7:22 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
There’s nothing inappropriate about asking directly to repair parts of the home or having an adult discussion about frustrations in the landlord/tenant relationship. If I were the landlord I’d find that far preferable to passive aggressive communications where my tenants are pouring all those piled-on frustrations into a fight over a $10 sink part.
posted by sallybrown at 7:22 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Current tenant in a high-rent area whose landlord is iffy on skills. I fix what I can if it's minor and less than $50 in parts and never mention it, mainly because I've developed that habit from not wanting to annoy good landlords and because I don't really want iffy landlord in my house. I alert him to things that are either beyond my capabilities (electric), potentially really bad for the house (leaks I can't fix), or more expensive. It's hit and miss about whether he fixes that stuff, or does it well, but he's decent, if slow, on anything major so I just shrug and sigh and get on with my life.
posted by lazuli at 7:26 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by lazuli at 7:26 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Point taken about not trying to charge for labor. I'm glad I posted this question before doing something dumb that would worsen relations with the landlords.
I'm going to mark this as resolved, but just to address a couple of points above:
Obviously I'm having a hard time letting go of this. I promise, I'm working on it! Thanks for all the sage advice.
posted by number9dream at 11:35 AM on March 31, 2019
I'm going to mark this as resolved, but just to address a couple of points above:
And there's no reason why I would assume my tenant is doing $40 an hour handyman quality labor, anyway.The actual thing I fixed was nothing that needed a handyman in the first place. It's the sort of thing where if you called in a plumber, you'd be embarrassed because the fix was so simple. I literally just unscrewed the little cap on the faucet holding the aerator, replaced the aerator, and screwed the cap back on. That's part of why I'm so annoyed in the first place, because it's a completely trivial fix, and either they couldn't be bothered to fix it or they didn't know it was trivial, then didn't call a professional, and instead told us some bullshit about the water pressure in order to justify not doing anything about it.
I can imagine a landlord being annoyed that you attempted to fix something like plumbing without asking their permission first. What if you'd actually made it worse or caused a leak or something?
Obviously I'm having a hard time letting go of this. I promise, I'm working on it! Thanks for all the sage advice.
posted by number9dream at 11:35 AM on March 31, 2019
Glad to see the direction you're going with this. I'm another small time landlord who would have concerns about paying for an improvement we didn't agree to. The $10, I'd be fine with, but learning you were billing me for your labor without us discussing that plan in advance would annoy me.
posted by slidell at 11:37 AM on March 31, 2019
posted by slidell at 11:37 AM on March 31, 2019
In response to your comment, it's also possible that some worker told them that. There are a lot of semi competent people doing work out there, so they might just be reporting what they believed. Wouldn't the kind of people who knew enough to know that they were lying also be the kind of people who could do that tiny fix?
posted by slidell at 11:40 AM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by slidell at 11:40 AM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
Tough crowd here answering the question. It sounds like the root of your irritation is that your landlord didn't mention that the sink was broken before signing the lease, and you want to punish them a bit for that (rightly IMHO). I mean, I get it -- my current small-time, "we're not slumlords" landlords are also a little shady and exploitative, and I don't have a lot of warm feelings toward them.
But I don't think this is the way to do it. I would just make very sure to get every service and dime you're legally entitled to out of them. E.g. when the smoke detector goes, that's on them, not you.
posted by crazy with stars at 2:47 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
But I don't think this is the way to do it. I would just make very sure to get every service and dime you're legally entitled to out of them. E.g. when the smoke detector goes, that's on them, not you.
posted by crazy with stars at 2:47 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well, a thing you could do is not tell them it's already fixed and ask if they'd be willing to deduct parts (not labor) for minor repairs. If they say yes, then "fix" the sink. To be honest, I'm leaning toward "you spent ten bucks to make your own life nicer, consider it ten bucks well spent." But it would be nice to be clear on how they stand on that issue for the future. Pre-approval? Cost limit? etc.
Last place I rented, I fixed the broken fridge for (IIRC) a $20 part, which they appreciated. I also had a wasp's nest removed for $100 (before I knew how easy it was to do) and they did not appreciate that since apparently they knew a guy. As always, clear communication can make the whole relationship better. Wanting to surprise charge them after the fact isn't that.
posted by ctmf at 6:58 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Last place I rented, I fixed the broken fridge for (IIRC) a $20 part, which they appreciated. I also had a wasp's nest removed for $100 (before I knew how easy it was to do) and they did not appreciate that since apparently they knew a guy. As always, clear communication can make the whole relationship better. Wanting to surprise charge them after the fact isn't that.
posted by ctmf at 6:58 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
(not labor) because if I'm the landlord and I'm paying for labor, I'm going to spend a bit more and pay for real, qualified, quality-reasonably-expected labor.
posted by ctmf at 7:03 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 7:03 PM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
If it helps your mental framing: I basically feel like any small repairs/improvements I make are investments in my own wellbeing, rather than property improvements that will benefit the landlord longterm. That also helps me set the boundary on what I'm willing to do and pay for myself, what I'm willing to push with the landlord, and what I'm willing to just let go.
posted by lazuli at 8:27 PM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 8:27 PM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
I rent properties and a request like this would probably rub me the wrong way. I'm not sure of the exact context, but if it came out of the blue with a bill, it would probably piss me off. That being said Jubey's advice is really good.
I would frame it this way: There's some things that need to be fixed around the house. You just fixed this one (for free) and established some proficiency in fixing things around the house. In the future, I would describe the problem, provide a solution (maybe you show them a youtube video or sketch) and establish an agreement before asking for compensation. That gives them the room to approve or disapprove any changes to their property (which they should have as the owners).
posted by kookywon at 9:25 AM on April 1, 2019
I would frame it this way: There's some things that need to be fixed around the house. You just fixed this one (for free) and established some proficiency in fixing things around the house. In the future, I would describe the problem, provide a solution (maybe you show them a youtube video or sketch) and establish an agreement before asking for compensation. That gives them the room to approve or disapprove any changes to their property (which they should have as the owners).
posted by kookywon at 9:25 AM on April 1, 2019
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posted by drlith at 5:09 PM on March 30, 2019 [9 favorites]