poncho-thing to shield from wood dust
March 17, 2019 12:20 PM Subscribe
Wood allergy— easily get headaches and nausea from inhaling even small amounts of airborne dust when using chop saw, table saw, sander.
I want to see if a quick-to-put-on smock-overshirt type thing that I can throw on/off will help.
I do use a dual filter face mask, but I think dust is getting on my upper body, and then I’m inhaling it the rest of the day.
(I do have dust collector hooked up to the saws, but I’m worried about small particle stuff, which I don’t think the DCs catch all of)
I do use a dual filter face mask, but I think dust is getting on my upper body, and then I’m inhaling it the rest of the day.
(I do have dust collector hooked up to the saws, but I’m worried about small particle stuff, which I don’t think the DCs catch all of)
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49899&cat=1,101,45989&ap=1 Is what came to mind but sadly shows as no longer available... but searching for wood turning smocks does show me some similar options at various places.
posted by Northbysomewhatcrazy at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2019
posted by Northbysomewhatcrazy at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2019
You might also consider getting an air cleaner in addition to your dust collector. I myself use the cheap version: a box fan with good quality 20x20 furnace filters zip tied against the air intake side and it helps a lot. Depending on your dust collector, you can upgrade the bags to catch more of the small stuff.
posted by Poldo at 1:18 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Poldo at 1:18 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
Woodturner's Smocks. Someone on this thread uses an oversized Dickie's workshirt. But I think with small particles, the issue might be with bits and dust, getting in your hair? To then drift down to torment you for the remainder of the day. Perhaps cover your head, or commit to showering after woodworking.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:21 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:21 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you want to up your face mask game too-- the Trend Airshield is excellent. I ended up getting the nice 3M quick-latch dual filter face mask, but the AirShield was on my dream list-- it's really hard to keep a face-mask nicely sealed at all times.
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:10 PM on March 17, 2019
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:10 PM on March 17, 2019
Response by poster: Great replies guys, thanks.
2 follow up questions
For air filtration, what spec should I be looking for in the air filters to go with the box fan?
Got a link for the quick latch 3M mask?
posted by disnchntd at 6:34 AM on March 18, 2019
2 follow up questions
For air filtration, what spec should I be looking for in the air filters to go with the box fan?
Got a link for the quick latch 3M mask?
posted by disnchntd at 6:34 AM on March 18, 2019
Wood dust long term can be very bad. I recommend for some info you look at this mans website a little he took a deep dive after developing a pretty bad alergy. One of the the things is that small non industrial dust collectors and the plumbing people do with them aren't really designed and so don't necessarily work that well. Once the fine stuff is in the air it takes for ever to settle or even with positive airflow into and out of the space a long time to clear. For years I thought I had a mild allergy to my cat and then for some reason it dawned on me that maybe it had something to do with having some wood shop tools in the basement (with dust collection, with the dust collector moved outside,) and so I put a box fan in one of the basement windows and cracked the ones across from it and have it running 24 hours a day. It made a big difference. Chalk one up for Captain Stupid.
On the other hand I disagree with the proponents of the "air cleaner" type schemes. If one were actually designed for the job and tested I might feel differently but I do not believe they would limit your exposure as I suspect that after a few chop saw cuts they would have to run all day to significantly reduce the level of particulates in the air. Even if that were not the case they are not going to keep you from breathing the dust in the time between when you create it and when the machine finally clears, (if it even can.) I feel that they can give people a false sense of safety and as you probably well know there are a lot of ex wood workers who were exed because they developed an allergy to their materials.
posted by Pembquist at 6:05 PM on March 18, 2019
On the other hand I disagree with the proponents of the "air cleaner" type schemes. If one were actually designed for the job and tested I might feel differently but I do not believe they would limit your exposure as I suspect that after a few chop saw cuts they would have to run all day to significantly reduce the level of particulates in the air. Even if that were not the case they are not going to keep you from breathing the dust in the time between when you create it and when the machine finally clears, (if it even can.) I feel that they can give people a false sense of safety and as you probably well know there are a lot of ex wood workers who were exed because they developed an allergy to their materials.
posted by Pembquist at 6:05 PM on March 18, 2019
On re reading the thread I wanted to emphasize my opinion, which others will disagree with, do not use a box fan with furnace filters to try to control dust. If you have already acquired an allergy that makes you have headaches and feel nauseous with what sounds like very little exposure you should not take any chances as things can get much worse and can put you in the hospital. The recurrence of exposure can make the reaction worse and worse.
Take care.
posted by Pembquist at 6:22 PM on March 18, 2019
Take care.
posted by Pembquist at 6:22 PM on March 18, 2019
Response by poster: Pemquist
OK, talk me down.
Are you saying get out of wood working altogether?
posted by disnchntd at 7:15 AM on March 19, 2019
OK, talk me down.
Are you saying get out of wood working altogether?
posted by disnchntd at 7:15 AM on March 19, 2019
Pemquist was probably wanting to link to Bill Pentz's site. It's a lot to slog through but well worth the read for any woodworker concerned about their health.
Bottom line: Your dust collector, unless you've taken special steps, isn't collecting the finest and most dangerous dust (and likely most sensitizing); really it is just performing chip collection. If you aren't venting your collector outside it actually ends up stiring dust up whenever it is running. Room dust filters are generally ineffective and leave dust suspended for the time you are in the shop.
Best solutions:
1) Invest in actual dust collection that will collect fine dust and preferably vent it outside.
That is of course expensive and takes up a lot of room.
2) Alternatively wear your respirator and cross ventilate the hell out of your work space. Open windows/doors on opposite sides of the work space and set the largest fan you can to blow air out of your workspace (something like one of these drum fans). You need to run the fan before you start making dust and for at least a half hour after. This is also either expensive or uncomfortable if you live in an area that requires heating or cooling.
posted by Mitheral at 9:03 AM on March 19, 2019
Bottom line: Your dust collector, unless you've taken special steps, isn't collecting the finest and most dangerous dust (and likely most sensitizing); really it is just performing chip collection. If you aren't venting your collector outside it actually ends up stiring dust up whenever it is running. Room dust filters are generally ineffective and leave dust suspended for the time you are in the shop.
Best solutions:
1) Invest in actual dust collection that will collect fine dust and preferably vent it outside.
That is of course expensive and takes up a lot of room.
2) Alternatively wear your respirator and cross ventilate the hell out of your work space. Open windows/doors on opposite sides of the work space and set the largest fan you can to blow air out of your workspace (something like one of these drum fans). You need to run the fan before you start making dust and for at least a half hour after. This is also either expensive or uncomfortable if you live in an area that requires heating or cooling.
posted by Mitheral at 9:03 AM on March 19, 2019
Response by poster: Mith—
Thank you for the explainer...
1) when you say “actual dc that will collect fine dust” —what unit spec should I focus on? CFM? HP? particulate size filtered?
2) those fans you linked to list CFM of up to 5000... BUT I’m seeing units like this
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-20-in-3-Speed-High-Velocity-Fan/4755301
that claim 6100 CFM.
Would they work?
posted by disnchntd at 3:11 PM on March 23, 2019
Thank you for the explainer...
1) when you say “actual dc that will collect fine dust” —what unit spec should I focus on? CFM? HP? particulate size filtered?
2) those fans you linked to list CFM of up to 5000... BUT I’m seeing units like this
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-20-in-3-Speed-High-Velocity-Fan/4755301
that claim 6100 CFM.
Would they work?
posted by disnchntd at 3:11 PM on March 23, 2019
For actual dust collection you need minimum CFMs at point of collection. The larger the area needing collection the more CFMs you need (because it is actually minimum surface cfm that is important). So something like a shaper has lower requirements than a radial arm or mitre saw. Bill's site goes into much more detail but sufficient to say most consumer level DCs do not provide enough air flow. And then they are further hampered by restrictive piping (undersized and heavy utilization of flexible hose with a ridged interior).
Then if your DC isn't located outside or completely venting outside the very fine, most dangerous dust is going straight through your filter media and ending up suspended in the air where it can end up in your lungs. Filter bags are a joke when is comes to capturing fine dust. Again Bill's site goes in to the details but like "6HP" vacuums which plug into a 15A circuit (maximum 2 real HP) the filtering claims of DC manufacturers is mostly marketing bullshit.
As far as fans go: in general more CFM is better (but skepticism is warranted when comparing numbers). The goal is to exhaust any dust before it has chance to settle on surfaces so that when you turn off your machines and take off your mask you aren't breathing in dust created hours, days, weeks before.
Keep in mind with fans more CFM generally means more noise and larger blades generally mean less noise as does lower RPMs (everything else being equal which generally they aren't but still stands as a general guideline). So a 20" fan is going to be noisier than a 36" fan with equivalent CFMs. Personally I wouldn't be going for ultimate CFM (10% either way probably isn't significant anyways) but would be considering price, packaging (will it fit in my window/door opening), and sound levels (sadly missing from most specs but if shopping in person you may be able to try them in store).
As an extreme example I've installed 10' and 12' Big Ass Fans that move a huge amount of air but are hard to hear even when running at full speed.
posted by Mitheral at 9:47 PM on March 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Then if your DC isn't located outside or completely venting outside the very fine, most dangerous dust is going straight through your filter media and ending up suspended in the air where it can end up in your lungs. Filter bags are a joke when is comes to capturing fine dust. Again Bill's site goes in to the details but like "6HP" vacuums which plug into a 15A circuit (maximum 2 real HP) the filtering claims of DC manufacturers is mostly marketing bullshit.
As far as fans go: in general more CFM is better (but skepticism is warranted when comparing numbers). The goal is to exhaust any dust before it has chance to settle on surfaces so that when you turn off your machines and take off your mask you aren't breathing in dust created hours, days, weeks before.
Keep in mind with fans more CFM generally means more noise and larger blades generally mean less noise as does lower RPMs (everything else being equal which generally they aren't but still stands as a general guideline). So a 20" fan is going to be noisier than a 36" fan with equivalent CFMs. Personally I wouldn't be going for ultimate CFM (10% either way probably isn't significant anyways) but would be considering price, packaging (will it fit in my window/door opening), and sound levels (sadly missing from most specs but if shopping in person you may be able to try them in store).
As an extreme example I've installed 10' and 12' Big Ass Fans that move a huge amount of air but are hard to hear even when running at full speed.
posted by Mitheral at 9:47 PM on March 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Mitheral, I emailed you with more specific questions about the workspace I'm in.
posted by disnchntd at 8:42 PM on March 25, 2019
posted by disnchntd at 8:42 PM on March 25, 2019
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posted by pipeski at 12:29 PM on March 17, 2019 [3 favorites]