Help with rejecting unwanted advances
February 4, 2019 4:56 PM Subscribe
A younger relative (in her late 20s, but emotionally/mentally more like a teenager due to a mild disability) attends a weekly community group. An older man has started bringing her flowers and saying she is the only reason he attends the group meetings. Last week he asked for a kiss and she compromised with a hug although not really wanting too. My question is, can you think of some simple things she can say to him to firmly head off these advances? Ideally I will practise saying them with her so she feels confident.
Being a prickly standoffish sort of person I’ve never had to do this myself and don’t want to push her away with the indignant and vehement advice I feel like giving. She is friendly, very kindhearted and absolutely will not tell even a white lie. She wants to keep attending the group but is worried about hurting his feelings, especially as he may be disabled, socially isolated, or otherwise disadvantaged in some way as most members of the group are.
Being a prickly standoffish sort of person I’ve never had to do this myself and don’t want to push her away with the indignant and vehement advice I feel like giving. She is friendly, very kindhearted and absolutely will not tell even a white lie. She wants to keep attending the group but is worried about hurting his feelings, especially as he may be disabled, socially isolated, or otherwise disadvantaged in some way as most members of the group are.
"No thank you"
"No, I don't want to."
"No, I don't like that."
Probably the "I statements" are the best because they are simple statements that express how she feels. Since they are not critical of the man (they don't use "you statements", it shouldn't hurt his feelings too much. But it's unavoidable. Why should his feelings be protected 100% while she is made to feel uncomfortable?
Starting off with "No" is important.
She should try to explain to the facilitator what is happening. Or should get some help from someone (like you?) to explain what is happening.
"I feel unsafe."
"I feel uncomfortable."
"I feel bad."
"I feel unhappy."
posted by JamesBay at 5:06 PM on February 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
"No, I don't want to."
"No, I don't like that."
Probably the "I statements" are the best because they are simple statements that express how she feels. Since they are not critical of the man (they don't use "you statements", it shouldn't hurt his feelings too much. But it's unavoidable. Why should his feelings be protected 100% while she is made to feel uncomfortable?
Starting off with "No" is important.
She should try to explain to the facilitator what is happening. Or should get some help from someone (like you?) to explain what is happening.
"I feel unsafe."
"I feel uncomfortable."
"I feel bad."
"I feel unhappy."
posted by JamesBay at 5:06 PM on February 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
"This is making me uncomfortable and I don't like it."
"I want to keep coming to this group every week, but I can't if you make it uncomfortable for me by making romantic gestures."
"You are a nice person but I don't like you in a romantic way and your romantic advances make me uncomfortable."
Is their a group leader or organizer you can both talk to about this?
posted by runcibleshaw at 5:07 PM on February 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
"I want to keep coming to this group every week, but I can't if you make it uncomfortable for me by making romantic gestures."
"You are a nice person but I don't like you in a romantic way and your romantic advances make me uncomfortable."
Is their a group leader or organizer you can both talk to about this?
posted by runcibleshaw at 5:07 PM on February 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
She or someone she is comfortable with needs to talk to the facilitator of this group and get them to handle it. She shouldn't be dodging kisses and romantic attention from anyone. Someone in charge needs to shut this down hard.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:11 PM on February 4, 2019 [111 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:11 PM on February 4, 2019 [111 favorites]
Yes, this is the textbook definition of sexual harassment. And lest we think the man should be given a pass because of cognitive abilities, you can teach consent to young children.
posted by JamesBay at 5:27 PM on February 4, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by JamesBay at 5:27 PM on February 4, 2019 [27 favorites]
To stay focused on the question of what can she say, she has to be able to pin this on someone who can be a rock for her. Her feelings might at times waver toward pitying him (and he'll twist that to his advantage), but rules are rules.
Ask her if it would help if you flat-out forbid her to do some specific things that she doesn't want to do. "I can't accept flowers or other gifts. I can't hug or kiss or hang out alone. My older relative forbids all of this."
Get the group organizer to tell him to stop. If he does it again: "The group organizer asked you to stop singling me out for attention." And tell the group organizer he did it again.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:34 PM on February 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Ask her if it would help if you flat-out forbid her to do some specific things that she doesn't want to do. "I can't accept flowers or other gifts. I can't hug or kiss or hang out alone. My older relative forbids all of this."
Get the group organizer to tell him to stop. If he does it again: "The group organizer asked you to stop singling me out for attention." And tell the group organizer he did it again.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:34 PM on February 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Talk to the organizer. If the man is not disabled, he is acting like a predator and this is a threat to her personal safety.
If he is, he needs to be deflected by the people who are responsible where he's concerned.
But first, talk to the organizer. If they are ineffective, escalate. The worst thing you can do is nothing.
posted by emjaybee at 6:03 PM on February 4, 2019 [28 favorites]
If he is, he needs to be deflected by the people who are responsible where he's concerned.
But first, talk to the organizer. If they are ineffective, escalate. The worst thing you can do is nothing.
posted by emjaybee at 6:03 PM on February 4, 2019 [28 favorites]
My question is, can you think of some simple things she can say to him to firmly head off these advances?
Figuring out the right thing to say to someone who already wouldn't respect her 'no' doesn't seem like a workable solution, because it's not her fault that she is being pressured into having unwanted physical contact with someone making obsessive romantic gestures.
Free and confidential support is available from hotlines and organizations for survivors of abuse. These organizations have training and experience that could be valuable as you figure out how to navigate this particular situation, and I encourage you to contact them for feedback and guidance.
posted by Little Dawn at 6:37 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Figuring out the right thing to say to someone who already wouldn't respect her 'no' doesn't seem like a workable solution, because it's not her fault that she is being pressured into having unwanted physical contact with someone making obsessive romantic gestures.
Free and confidential support is available from hotlines and organizations for survivors of abuse. These organizations have training and experience that could be valuable as you figure out how to navigate this particular situation, and I encourage you to contact them for feedback and guidance.
posted by Little Dawn at 6:37 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Men (and I say this as one of them) are sometimes obtuse and need a very clear message. Any excuse that isn’t direct rejection is not likely to work. If she says, “Sorry, Frank, but I only date deep sea welders” as a way to get rid of him, the dude will show up to next week’s class hauling a diving suit. However, it is possible to be both forthright and kind: “Frank, you’re a swell guy, but I’m not interested in you like that.” and if he still tries for a kiss, “sorry, no.”
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 6:44 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 6:44 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
"I'm saying no, but my relative Anonymous would be happy to discuss this with you if you don't understand, do you need their phone number?"
But yeah, the facilitator needs to intervene here.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:40 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
But yeah, the facilitator needs to intervene here.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:40 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
"Men (and I say this as one of them) are sometimes obtuse and need a very clear message. Any excuse that isn’t direct rejection is not likely to work."
I don't want to leave this unaddressed. Men are not any more obtuse than women, nor any less capable of understanding "softened" refusals.
A 1999 journal article "Just say no? The use of conversation analysis in developing a feminist perspective on sexual refusal" describes how researchers using the tools of conversational analysis concluded that:
I don't want to leave this unaddressed. Men are not any more obtuse than women, nor any less capable of understanding "softened" refusals.
A 1999 journal article "Just say no? The use of conversation analysis in developing a feminist perspective on sexual refusal" describes how researchers using the tools of conversational analysis concluded that:
"both men and women have a sophisticated ability to convey and to comprehend refusals, including refusals which do not include the word ‘no’, and we suggest that male claims not to have ‘understood’ refusals which conform to culturally normative patterns can only be heard as self-interested justifications for coercive behaviour."posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:16 PM on February 4, 2019 [82 favorites]
RAINN offers a variety of materials, including How To Respond if Someone is Pressuring You, and a series of comics about consent.
posted by Little Dawn at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Little Dawn at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Ask her if it would help if you flat-out forbid her to do some specific things that she doesn't want to do. "I can't accept flowers or other gifts. I can't hug or kiss or hang out alone. My older relative forbids all of this."
Respectfully, this is not the best advice, as it turns it into a Romeo and Juliet Forbbidden Love situation that he gets to rescue her from. It also allows him to pressure her to do things that are kept secret. It may be fiction, but it gives him the idea there's leverage.
"I am not interested in you romantically" with some serious follow up with the co-ordinator, with the support of someone trustworthy (like you, anon!) is really the only way to go here. It's possible he's spotted her cognitive delays and is targetting her specifically because she's at a disadvantage to fighting him off. Pressuring her into body contact is a huge red flag for me and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt off the back of that - most of the awkward, socially inept men I've known would not know how to turn a refusal into a hug. The people running these classes need to know what they've got on their hands.
She's in her rights to just tell him no. No, no, no. She doesn't need to candy coat it for him. If he drops the class it's his problem, and not her fault at all. She needs to know that a firm "no" is always acceptable.
posted by Jilder at 8:50 PM on February 4, 2019 [21 favorites]
Respectfully, this is not the best advice, as it turns it into a Romeo and Juliet Forbbidden Love situation that he gets to rescue her from. It also allows him to pressure her to do things that are kept secret. It may be fiction, but it gives him the idea there's leverage.
"I am not interested in you romantically" with some serious follow up with the co-ordinator, with the support of someone trustworthy (like you, anon!) is really the only way to go here. It's possible he's spotted her cognitive delays and is targetting her specifically because she's at a disadvantage to fighting him off. Pressuring her into body contact is a huge red flag for me and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt off the back of that - most of the awkward, socially inept men I've known would not know how to turn a refusal into a hug. The people running these classes need to know what they've got on their hands.
She's in her rights to just tell him no. No, no, no. She doesn't need to candy coat it for him. If he drops the class it's his problem, and not her fault at all. She needs to know that a firm "no" is always acceptable.
posted by Jilder at 8:50 PM on February 4, 2019 [21 favorites]
If she doesn’t want to tell a white lie, that’s perfect, he gets the unvarnished truth. “Please don’t touch me or bring me flowers, I’m just not interested.” The thing is, he almost certainly knows she’s not interested, he just wants to bulldoze straight through her boundaries so she will have to be blunt and tell it like it is. Don’t say sorry, don’t say you just want to be friends - he will latch onto it. You’re not interested. Period.
posted by Jubey at 9:22 PM on February 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 9:22 PM on February 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
These are all great suggestions but volume might be something to consider as well. Not shouting but something a person standing nearby could hear.
posted by East14thTaco at 9:50 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by East14thTaco at 9:50 PM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Ohhh, it pains me to say all the things that we've all said to men to try to nicely get them to stop doing inappropriate things. I would avoid all discussions about what she does and does not do romantically because he'll just argue with her and look for a lawyerly way in.
The best literally-honest responses are probably in the camp of begging the question in her favor (in the original sense, meaning an argument that requires that the desired conclusion be true. )
"I don't like kissing or hugging. If you like me, you'll respect that, right?"
"These flowers are pretty and it's very nice for you to bring them. It would make me happiest to share them with the whole group, so I am going to do that."
(Nthing that the facilitator should be stepping in to help.)
posted by desuetude at 10:51 PM on February 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
The best literally-honest responses are probably in the camp of begging the question in her favor (in the original sense, meaning an argument that requires that the desired conclusion be true. )
"I don't like kissing or hugging. If you like me, you'll respect that, right?"
"These flowers are pretty and it's very nice for you to bring them. It would make me happiest to share them with the whole group, so I am going to do that."
(Nthing that the facilitator should be stepping in to help.)
posted by desuetude at 10:51 PM on February 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
This is really a job for the facilitator. You can work on assertive speech with her, but if he's already pushed her physical boundaries into hugging her when she didn't want to hug, she might need more support than words.
In addition to "No" and "I don't want that" and "I'm not interested" another nice direct phrase to use would be "That's inappropriate!" You can coach her on nonverbal behavior, too - don't sit next to him at the group meetings, don't be alone with him, if he comes up to her she can lean away from him, cross her arms, walk away and go stand by some other people, etc. She might need to be reminded that it is okay to be loud and rude if someone is doing something bad to you, and what he is doing is not okay.
You should emphasize to her that this is not her fault. The problem is not that she doesn't want his attention, the problem is that he is doing something that he should not do. It is not okay for older men to come to community group meetings and pressure young women to kiss them.
posted by beandip at 10:36 AM on February 5, 2019 [8 favorites]
In addition to "No" and "I don't want that" and "I'm not interested" another nice direct phrase to use would be "That's inappropriate!" You can coach her on nonverbal behavior, too - don't sit next to him at the group meetings, don't be alone with him, if he comes up to her she can lean away from him, cross her arms, walk away and go stand by some other people, etc. She might need to be reminded that it is okay to be loud and rude if someone is doing something bad to you, and what he is doing is not okay.
You should emphasize to her that this is not her fault. The problem is not that she doesn't want his attention, the problem is that he is doing something that he should not do. It is not okay for older men to come to community group meetings and pressure young women to kiss them.
posted by beandip at 10:36 AM on February 5, 2019 [8 favorites]
Tell her to say "I don't like you like that". It's straightforward, non-judgemental and pretty unanswerable, there is no real argument he can make to her that's not a direct refutation of her stated position, which annoys even the most timid person.
posted by fshgrl at 2:03 PM on February 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 2:03 PM on February 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
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"Nope, not here for kisses."
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:02 PM on February 4, 2019 [7 favorites]