XBox games for honing laproscopic surgery skills.

February 21, 2006 7:40 PM

What non-violent XBox games would help hone and maintain laproscopic surgery skills?

Mrs. Eothele is a OB/GYN and has been told by colleagues that video games are good practice for laproscopic surgery. Unfortunately, she's turned off by the idea of blowing gory holes in aliens or slashing orcs to bloody atoms, so she doesn't really want to play any of my games. What non-violent or at least non-splatterific games should she check out?

posted by Eothele to sports, hobbies, & recreation (29 comments total)

Racing games?
posted by riffola at 7:49 PM on February 21, 2006

Chessmaster? Oddworld?
posted by pompomtom at 7:52 PM on February 21, 2006

On the Nintendo DS there's a game called Trauma Center, Under The Knife, where you're a trauma surgeon fixing people who have been in motorcycle accidents and whatnot. It's pretty hard, and it's not for the XBOX, and it's of course not realistic at all.

Of all the consoles the XBOX is the most blow-holes-in-people-ish. Racing games is another genre that is well represented on that platform.
posted by aubilenon at 7:54 PM on February 21, 2006

Sims?
posted by pompomtom at 8:00 PM on February 21, 2006

pompomtom, I don't think you've understood the question that was asked.

Eothele, what you want are games that require precision movements where small errors have large consequences. Most racing games would be good, though ones where you're running a course would be preferable to, say, EA NASCAR. The Tony Hawk games might be even better for developing the coordination to do complex moves. Or you could get SSX and get a little bit of both. The Prince of Persia games are known for requiring a fair degree of coordination, though they do also have a combat element -- essentially, these are games where you have to be able to do both to be successful.
posted by jjg at 8:23 PM on February 21, 2006

Oh yeah, and if you want something that's actually fun too, you should probably go with one of the high scorers on Metacritic's list.
posted by jjg at 8:25 PM on February 21, 2006

She *might* enjoy Prince of Persia, the Sands of Time. It has quite a bit of fighting, but there's also a lot of fairly involved climbing/jumping puzzles. And the story is really quite neat...it has a sort of a wistful lightheartedness to it that's quite nice.

They completely messed the feel up in the sequel... it changed from a whimsical sort of game to a dark and nasty one. I have never gotten less for my money; I bought the sequel based purely on the extreme strength of the original, and that fifty bucks lasted me thirty minutes, tops. What a disaster. It went from one of the better games in the last few years to one of the absolute worst.

Unfortunately, it is still pretty fighting-focused.

Are PC games an option?
posted by Malor at 8:50 PM on February 21, 2006

Well, I suck at the Tony Hawk/SSX style games, and I also suck at laparoscopic surgery, so I think this is right on. Seriously, I think jgg is right on with this. You've got the manual dexerity required to throw the tricks (combines precise movement with precise timing), but you also have to plan ahead so that you can string together a nice run. You've also got the more meta-goals of high scores, unlocking hidden items, hitting every trick, etc. that require very high level thinking. Another genre that sounds right (and I also suck at) are DOA-style fighting games. They are violent, but tend to be very cartoony, with little or not blood and gore.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:05 PM on February 21, 2006

Are PC games an option?

Not really, I use macs and her pc is slow and clunky.

What's a DOA-style fighting game? I should mention that I only play a few hours a week, and I spend alot of in-game time walking into walls and falling off of cliffs. Talk to me like I'm your granpa.

Thanks, folks, keep it coming.
posted by Eothele at 9:13 PM on February 21, 2006

Or you can use the Rotten Tomatoes list, which among other things, allows you to filter by ESRB ratings. The above link is sorted by scores given by reviewers, and filtered to include only those rated E for Everyone. The filter is not completely accurate, I see a couple T games in there. (Although, I'm sure some of the E10 for ages 10 and up, and T for Teen games would be OK as well.)

Good luck figuring out which ones require lots of coordination. The individual reviews might help. I personally don't have an XBox. However, I've played and had fun with some of these games on other systems:
- The Burnout games are racing games with lots of crashes. Forcing other cars to crash, and narrowly avoiding crashes yourself, lets you turbo boost your car. Maybe a little too violent, maybe not.
- Sid Meier's Pirates is lots of fun, and requires timing, reflexes, and strategy more than anything else. (Aim is not so important.) The basic idea behind everything is very simple, and tutorial mode is very forgiving. If the pace of the battles get too hectic, you can adjust the difficulty every time you split the booty.
- The Super Monkey Ball games have two modes: a single player mode which is a lot like the classic Marble Madness. It requires very precise maneuvering to get your monkeyball through the obstacle course without falling off the track. Multiplayer mode is a collection of mini-games ranging from pool to bowling to a simple "King of the Hill" game with giant cartoon boxing gloves.
- The skateboarding games tend to get T ratings due to harsh language, disrespectful attitudes ("Do a jump over that policeman and steal his hat!"), and a tiny bit of blood when you crash. No serious violence. It requires, at various times, good timing, quick button mashing, and small but quick controller adjustments to keep your skater's balance. I didn't think I'd enjoy it, but I did. If you want to go for this, try Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4.
- Fighting games in general do require lots of timing and quick reflexes, and you can avoid most of the blood and guts by avoiding the M for Mature games. But they can be kind of overwhelming for beginners. In order to be very good at all, you need to remember lots of little details on basic strategy (the various ways to block/dodge/reverse/roll under blows, perform/avoid throws, when to use powerful vs. quick attacks), and many of them make you remember combinations of button presses to use your best attacks. And you have to do it all in a split second, many times per match. As I said, overwhelming at first. I'm sure some fighting games are better for beginners, but I'm not sure which ones.

Also, sports games are ... well, sports games. Does she love sports? I don't, so I can't give you much advice on this. For what it's worth, golf games can be played at a slow pace, and require good timing and strategizing. Precise aim is a little less important, so if she's looking to practice that, maybe she should look somewhere else. The plus side is, if she likes sports, you can pick up the previous year's version of the game for dirt cheap.
posted by CrunchyFrog at 9:17 PM on February 21, 2006

DOA stands for "Dead or Alive." Here's a review of a version you can pick up cheap. I've played it before, and it's pretty good. This review says that the play mechanics are relatively simple, and come to think of it, that's correct. If you're interested in trying a fighting game, this would be a good place to start, since it's a) less complex than many and b) not overly violent (no blood, just punching, kicking, and falling down).
posted by CrunchyFrog at 9:23 PM on February 21, 2006

My girlfriend enjoys 'Fuzion Frenzy' which is a party game with several minigames and 'Shrek 2' which is a 3d adventure sort of game (stay well away from the first Shrek as it's a nightmare).
posted by ODiV at 9:24 PM on February 21, 2006

Super Monkey Ball Deluxe is exactly what you're looking for.
posted by tumult at 9:47 PM on February 21, 2006

I know it's obvious, but perhaps she should play Operation (the old-school non-video kind).

Following that line'o'thought: Perhaps someone should develop an extra-tough real-world variant of that game. Tweeze shit out of a hole like 3mm across and such.
posted by sourwookie at 10:01 PM on February 21, 2006

Keep in mind that when a non-gamer like your surgical colleagues says "video games" they likely mean the absolute most popular ones, which they're most likely to have experienced. And if you specifically mean Xbox games, then you're talking Halo. Yes, it's a shooter, but it's not terribly gory.

Also, keep in mind that the interface design of these games varies widely. Just to walk around, Halo requires you to use both thumbs to manuver two joysticks, each of which controls a different movement axis. Perhaps this is THE practice for surgery you're looking for?

I don't know, but don't think game -- think interface.
posted by frogan at 10:23 PM on February 21, 2006

What about Madden Football? In the harder settings and some of the mini games you have to have really good timing and awareness to avoid interceptions. And running plays require strategy with dodging defenders and stuff. Plus it's cool.

Also you should definitely go to Blockbuster instead of buying anything
posted by joshuak at 10:24 PM on February 21, 2006

I think frogan has it right that the key point here is developing motor skills with a particular type of interface. So I would guess that the best games for working on this type of hand-eye coordination are ones that use both of the Xbox controller's analogue sticks, and are particularly focused on movement of the sticks and not as much on button pressing.

Halo, I think, would be a good game if she can get acclimated to killing aliens, as there is a focus on moving the the two analogue sticks simultaneously, with an enjoyable story included. If shooting up aliens isn't her thing, maybe eating brains would be an improvement: Stubbs the Zombie was made by some of the same people who made Halo, and reportedly controls very similarly.

Racing games require precision stick movement, but I don't know any I can personally recommend, but I have heard good things about Forza Motorsport. Here is a list of reviews for racing games on Xbox. If a PS2 were available, Gran Turismo would seem to be an ideal candidate.

The Tony Hawk games do require a good deal of precision, but it's as much hitting the right buttons as moving the right direction. Same thing with fighting type games.

To make an off-topic recommendation: the best toy/tool I ever had for improving hand-eye coordination and dexterity were marble tilt mazes (bottom of the page).


posted by meditative_zebra at 11:50 PM on February 21, 2006

Check the Live Arcade. I have a 360 and there's a slew of non-gorefest little games (Geometry Wars!) that require manual dexterity without the bloodshed.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:34 AM on February 22, 2006

I can't believe I forgot Monkey Ball. It's definitely the kind of thing you're looking for -- essentially a more complex form of the marble tilt maze pictured above.
posted by jjg at 5:22 AM on February 22, 2006

Super Monkey Ball is a fantastic suggestion - the Xbox one was released at a budget price, too, I seem to recall, so you should be able to pick it up cheap.

If you're looking at racing games, I can't recommend Outrun 2 highly enough - unlike a lot of the other racers available, it's fun- rather than realism-oriented, but there's a vast amount of scope for improving hand-eye co-ordination and practice to yield tangible, satisfying results in better times. Plus, the locations you drive through are gorgeous, and might do a good job of drawing in someone who doesn't play many games and is put off by the tedious blood-and-guts 'urban' rubbish that seems to dominate the medium these days.

Almost everything I said there can be applied to Panzer Dragoon Orta, too - it's shooting-based, but in a fantastical, whimsical setting rather than a violent one, and it calls for lots of quick, co-ordinated control rather than button-mashing.

The other option, if you're willing to spend a bit more, is to pick up a Nintendo DS - it uses a touchscreen and stylus as input for most games, which might translate better to the sort of work your wife is looking to do, and it's very light on the violent games and heavy on quirky, fun stuff designed to be accessible. If you do end up thinking about the DS, a few good places to start might be: Wario Ware: Touched, The Rub Rabbits, Zoo Keeper, the aforementioned Trauma Centre, Nintendogs and, best of all (although you'd have to pick it up from a Japanese importer) Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan, a music game which teaches and demands more hand-eye co-ordination than anything else I've ever played.
posted by terpsichoria at 6:11 AM on February 22, 2006

I would guess that the best games for working on this type of hand-eye coordination are ones that use both of the Xbox controller's analogue sticks, and are particularly focused on movement of the sticks and not as much on button pressing.

Unless she's working with laproscopic equipment that's controlled with two thumbsticks, I wouldn't get hung up on this. Developing "muscle memory" with her thumbs on the sticks will do her exactly as much good on the laproscopic rig as learning to hit buttons in particular sequences. This is about general hand-eye coordination, not a specific interface.
posted by jjg at 6:35 AM on February 22, 2006

Seconding the Tony Hawk and Super Monkey Ball games.
posted by A Kingdom for a Donkey at 7:23 AM on February 22, 2006

She might consider the tortuously named "Dai Senryaku VII" as well. It's a turn-based, hexagonal military board game. Although it has a violent premise (modern warfare), it is definitely not "splatterific".

It is a bear to learn. However, it doesn't enforce time restraints (you make all your moves at your leisure, then when you indicate that you'r done done the computer will make its moves) and requires lots of control manipulation and specific button pressing to maneuver the map, zoom in and out, select units, view capabilities, etc.

The focus is on strategy, not action, so fast reflexes are not required.
posted by de void at 8:46 AM on February 22, 2006

de void, I don't think you've understood the question that was asked.
posted by jjg at 9:24 AM on February 22, 2006

I can't believe that no one has mentioned Katamari Damacy.
posted by empath at 9:57 AM on February 22, 2006

Um, because it's not an Xbox game?
posted by jjg at 10:33 AM on February 22, 2006

Soul Calibur 2 & 3 are both fighting games that require fast hand-eye coordination and rapid decision making. Though they involve fighting with swords and whatnot, there is no blood or gore. If your'e looking for a DOA-style game that isn't DOA, that's your best bet.
posted by Durhey at 10:59 AM on February 22, 2006

Dr. James Rosser, who did the study (pdf) about the correlation between video game playing and laparoscopic surgery skill, warms up in pre-op with Super Monkey Ball, Silent Scope, and Star Wars Racer.
posted by Errant at 11:57 AM on February 22, 2006

i had trouble thinking of an answer, but once i saw that someone mentioned super monkey ball, it seemed like an incredibly obvious choice. yeah, definitely go with super monkey ball.
posted by jimmy at 2:25 PM on February 22, 2006