Get engaged or break up?
January 14, 2019 1:42 AM Subscribe
I’ve been dating an amazing man and I don’t know what to do. He wants to get married. I’m not sure.
Hi AskMe. You’ve always provided me food for thought so I’m turning to you now after debating this in my mind for much too long. I’m sorry in advance for putting you through an essay.
I’ve been dating my boyfriend for three years. He’s in his mid-thirties, and I’m in my late twenties. My boyfriend is fabulous. We’re so easy together. We never fight. We had very different childhoods, but we have the same values and preferences, down to our favorite cookie. We have an adorable dog. My boyfriend is a great partner, so responsible and considerate and loving. And I really truly love him. I really want to emphasize how happy we are together. That feeling doesn't come easily to either of us. He has always been so sure about me, much more than I've felt, and has wanted to propose for a year, but I haven’t been ready. I’m driving both of us crazy with the uncertainty since marriage is important to him. If we don’t get married then I’m just wasting his time.
What has been hard for me is that I'm not sure if our long-term happiness is compatible, even though our short-term happiness is off the charts. Here are my two worries about the long term:
(1) He lives in Small City, and I live in Big City. I’ve been flying back and forth for the last 2 years and spend 1-3 weeks every month in Small City with him and our dog because I can partly work remotely. I’m tired! Often I don’t feel like I have a home in either place anymore. I’ve lived in Big City most of my life and I love it. My family and friends are there. My work only exists in Big City. Sometimes I worry that the life we have in Small City feels, well, small, even though it’s also lovely. He has shallow roots in Small City but he wants to be near his family in the same state. He could find a similar job in Big City but he would need to settle for a lower position (Big City is more competitive) and doesn't want to. He previously told me I have to move to Small City full time but has recently offered to move to Big City. But when he lived in Big City, he hated it. I won’t ask him to do anything that makes him unhappy!
(2) I’m a woman from a conservative minority that values family. I’m an only child and first-generation immigrant. My parents are very strongly opposed to my boyfriend, to the point where they are sometimes emotionally and verbally abusive. They want me to marry someone of our culture and “of our class” as our family is wealthy. They think he doesn’t care enough about me because he doesn't travel to see me. And honestly years of my parents’ badmouthing have sown doubts. I don’t blame my boyfriend for this; it’s hard to overstate how awful it's been. I'm so tired of fighting. I used to be so strong against their objections but lately I’ve started to wonder whether my boyfriend can support us and whether he’s the right person for me. I’m building a new career so my salary is unreliable, and his salary isn’t enough to live in the neighborhood where I grew up even if we moved to Big City. If we had kids (I’m on the fence), I think I would have to go back to my last career, which is more lucrative than his. And even though my parents are behaving terribly and I can’t handle the almost daily fights and shouting and sobbing, I still want them to be happy and to be in my life. I love my parents and that familial respect is a part of my identity too.
I really don’t know how to proceed. I’ve been stuck for so long. I veer between happy contentment and a deep-seated misery. I’m prone to depression and this really has been quite bad for my mental health. And even though I worry so much about our future together, it’s also clear to me that on a fundamental level I don’t want to break up with my boyfriend, and that’s why I haven't been able to actually do it although I think about it constantly. I feel like I'm stuck between two awful choices, both of which involve leaving people I love. I feel so torn and so tired. At this point, I feel like maybe I should just end our relationship over my persistent doubts, even though our relationship itself is very happy. We’re so happy whenever we’re with each other. We just love each other so much. I also feel like I'm making all this drama, when I should just feel lucky to have an awesome boyfriend who loves me, an exciting new career, and extremely devoted parents. Advice, please?
Hi AskMe. You’ve always provided me food for thought so I’m turning to you now after debating this in my mind for much too long. I’m sorry in advance for putting you through an essay.
I’ve been dating my boyfriend for three years. He’s in his mid-thirties, and I’m in my late twenties. My boyfriend is fabulous. We’re so easy together. We never fight. We had very different childhoods, but we have the same values and preferences, down to our favorite cookie. We have an adorable dog. My boyfriend is a great partner, so responsible and considerate and loving. And I really truly love him. I really want to emphasize how happy we are together. That feeling doesn't come easily to either of us. He has always been so sure about me, much more than I've felt, and has wanted to propose for a year, but I haven’t been ready. I’m driving both of us crazy with the uncertainty since marriage is important to him. If we don’t get married then I’m just wasting his time.
What has been hard for me is that I'm not sure if our long-term happiness is compatible, even though our short-term happiness is off the charts. Here are my two worries about the long term:
(1) He lives in Small City, and I live in Big City. I’ve been flying back and forth for the last 2 years and spend 1-3 weeks every month in Small City with him and our dog because I can partly work remotely. I’m tired! Often I don’t feel like I have a home in either place anymore. I’ve lived in Big City most of my life and I love it. My family and friends are there. My work only exists in Big City. Sometimes I worry that the life we have in Small City feels, well, small, even though it’s also lovely. He has shallow roots in Small City but he wants to be near his family in the same state. He could find a similar job in Big City but he would need to settle for a lower position (Big City is more competitive) and doesn't want to. He previously told me I have to move to Small City full time but has recently offered to move to Big City. But when he lived in Big City, he hated it. I won’t ask him to do anything that makes him unhappy!
(2) I’m a woman from a conservative minority that values family. I’m an only child and first-generation immigrant. My parents are very strongly opposed to my boyfriend, to the point where they are sometimes emotionally and verbally abusive. They want me to marry someone of our culture and “of our class” as our family is wealthy. They think he doesn’t care enough about me because he doesn't travel to see me. And honestly years of my parents’ badmouthing have sown doubts. I don’t blame my boyfriend for this; it’s hard to overstate how awful it's been. I'm so tired of fighting. I used to be so strong against their objections but lately I’ve started to wonder whether my boyfriend can support us and whether he’s the right person for me. I’m building a new career so my salary is unreliable, and his salary isn’t enough to live in the neighborhood where I grew up even if we moved to Big City. If we had kids (I’m on the fence), I think I would have to go back to my last career, which is more lucrative than his. And even though my parents are behaving terribly and I can’t handle the almost daily fights and shouting and sobbing, I still want them to be happy and to be in my life. I love my parents and that familial respect is a part of my identity too.
I really don’t know how to proceed. I’ve been stuck for so long. I veer between happy contentment and a deep-seated misery. I’m prone to depression and this really has been quite bad for my mental health. And even though I worry so much about our future together, it’s also clear to me that on a fundamental level I don’t want to break up with my boyfriend, and that’s why I haven't been able to actually do it although I think about it constantly. I feel like I'm stuck between two awful choices, both of which involve leaving people I love. I feel so torn and so tired. At this point, I feel like maybe I should just end our relationship over my persistent doubts, even though our relationship itself is very happy. We’re so happy whenever we’re with each other. We just love each other so much. I also feel like I'm making all this drama, when I should just feel lucky to have an awesome boyfriend who loves me, an exciting new career, and extremely devoted parents. Advice, please?
I'm sorry, this is so hard. I would definitely take marriage off the table for now, and see if you can figure out what your lives would look like together first. Would your parents be against you co-habiting? Can your boyfriend move to Big City for a couple years and see if he really hates it (if your work doesn't exist in small city, you moving there is something of a non-starter). Or, see if there is a Third City that has options for you both?
When you talk to him about it, I would emphasise that you're not *against* marriage, but that you need to sort out how you're going to deal with x, y, z together before you feel comfortable committing to that future together.
Also, don't fight with your parents. If they start in about your boyfriend, just leave or hang up. It's not like you're spending quality time with them anyway if they're making you cry.
posted by stillnocturnal at 1:57 AM on January 14, 2019 [18 favorites]
When you talk to him about it, I would emphasise that you're not *against* marriage, but that you need to sort out how you're going to deal with x, y, z together before you feel comfortable committing to that future together.
Also, don't fight with your parents. If they start in about your boyfriend, just leave or hang up. It's not like you're spending quality time with them anyway if they're making you cry.
posted by stillnocturnal at 1:57 AM on January 14, 2019 [18 favorites]
We’re so easy together. We never fight...we have the same values and preferences...My boyfriend is a great partner, so responsible and considerate and loving.
You write, this, but when I read on, I discover that you are the one making all the sacrifices in this relationship. You are the one travelling back and forth & investing all this time that could be going into your career. He expects you to give up the life you enjoy & join him in a place where he has status that he is unwilling to give up.
Where are his sacrifices in all this? What is he compromising on for you?
When I was in a long distance relationship with the women I married, we alternated trips to see each other. This relationship seems very unbalanced to me - is it going to continue in the same vein once you’re married? It’s very easy to have an apparently “great” relationship on the surface if you never challenge your partner in any way & always say “yes” to everything, burying what you really want deep inside.
I really don’t know how to proceed. I’ve been stuck for so long. I veer between happy contentment and a deep-seated misery.
This is because you haven't addressed these conflicts that lie at the heart of your relationship. Until you do, those feelings aren't going to go away. Marriage isn’t going to solve this problem for you.
To be clear - if you value this relationship above everything else, then that’s fine. Lots of people chose marriage & children over the 'job in the big city'. But they make that choice with open eyes & with an actively involved partner who doesn't force a choice between them & the life you want purely because said partner wants life to be on their terms, not yours.
posted by pharm at 2:32 AM on January 14, 2019 [80 favorites]
You write, this, but when I read on, I discover that you are the one making all the sacrifices in this relationship. You are the one travelling back and forth & investing all this time that could be going into your career. He expects you to give up the life you enjoy & join him in a place where he has status that he is unwilling to give up.
Where are his sacrifices in all this? What is he compromising on for you?
When I was in a long distance relationship with the women I married, we alternated trips to see each other. This relationship seems very unbalanced to me - is it going to continue in the same vein once you’re married? It’s very easy to have an apparently “great” relationship on the surface if you never challenge your partner in any way & always say “yes” to everything, burying what you really want deep inside.
I really don’t know how to proceed. I’ve been stuck for so long. I veer between happy contentment and a deep-seated misery.
This is because you haven't addressed these conflicts that lie at the heart of your relationship. Until you do, those feelings aren't going to go away. Marriage isn’t going to solve this problem for you.
To be clear - if you value this relationship above everything else, then that’s fine. Lots of people chose marriage & children over the 'job in the big city'. But they make that choice with open eyes & with an actively involved partner who doesn't force a choice between them & the life you want purely because said partner wants life to be on their terms, not yours.
posted by pharm at 2:32 AM on January 14, 2019 [80 favorites]
The issue isn’t with either of these people, the issue is with you. You’re being pulled in two directions, by two factions. 1) your boyfriend who wants to dictate your life while making no compromises himself, and 2) your parents who also want to control who you date. At no point have you made a stand against either one of them for what you actually want.
1) The guy. He hasn’t made any effort to visit you, he TOLD you (not asked, told) that you have to move to his city, even though he knows your job doesn’t exist there, meanwhile, he is capable of working in your city (at a decreased income, but still) but refuses to go and you’re expected to do all the travel and all the compromising. And you do it! I’m not surprised your parents don’t like him.
I think what you both want is fundamentally incompatible without one person sacrificing their happiness for the other (hint; I don’t think that person will be him.) I know you love him, but that’s only one ingredient in a happy marriage and you’re missing the rest. For both your sakes, move on.
2) Your parents are trouble as well. Daily shouting and sobbing fights? Are you serious? At what point are you going to tell your parents to butt out of your life? You need to grow a backbone and cut the cord from all these influences so you can grow as a person and figure out what you want instead of being told what to do.
With your next partner, don’t involve your parents or again, you’ll never make it to the altar. Who knows if you two would have made it if they didn’t feel the need to control you? As long as you let them, they’ll always be the third person in your relationship and you imagine how attractive that will be for future boyfriends.
I wish you all the best, I know this is hard but the reason these people treat you like this is because you let them. Stop it.
posted by Jubey at 2:39 AM on January 14, 2019 [51 favorites]
1) The guy. He hasn’t made any effort to visit you, he TOLD you (not asked, told) that you have to move to his city, even though he knows your job doesn’t exist there, meanwhile, he is capable of working in your city (at a decreased income, but still) but refuses to go and you’re expected to do all the travel and all the compromising. And you do it! I’m not surprised your parents don’t like him.
I think what you both want is fundamentally incompatible without one person sacrificing their happiness for the other (hint; I don’t think that person will be him.) I know you love him, but that’s only one ingredient in a happy marriage and you’re missing the rest. For both your sakes, move on.
2) Your parents are trouble as well. Daily shouting and sobbing fights? Are you serious? At what point are you going to tell your parents to butt out of your life? You need to grow a backbone and cut the cord from all these influences so you can grow as a person and figure out what you want instead of being told what to do.
With your next partner, don’t involve your parents or again, you’ll never make it to the altar. Who knows if you two would have made it if they didn’t feel the need to control you? As long as you let them, they’ll always be the third person in your relationship and you imagine how attractive that will be for future boyfriends.
I wish you all the best, I know this is hard but the reason these people treat you like this is because you let them. Stop it.
posted by Jubey at 2:39 AM on January 14, 2019 [51 favorites]
If we had kids (I’m on the fence)
Where is he on this? Have you talked through things like who would be in charge of what if you had kids; whether there is any expectation that you would stay at home or step back your career to care for them; whether he might stay home or step back his career; what sort of culture and environment you want to raise them in; your views on education and time with extended family; etc. etc.?
What did he dislike about life in your city when he lived there? How much of that is workable?
It sounds like since most of your time together has been spent in his area, you two don't have experience living together on your turf, not only with respect to location but with respect to living around your schedule, your friends, your local life, your family life, etc. You've shown you can adapt to his world, but if you're thinking of staying together you should find out how willing and able he is to adapt to yours.
Beyond that, I agree with the other comments to be careful that your own reluctance to ask others for things that might make them unhappy doesn't default to you being the one who takes on things that make you unhappy. That holds for both your SO and your parents.
posted by trig at 3:14 AM on January 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
Where is he on this? Have you talked through things like who would be in charge of what if you had kids; whether there is any expectation that you would stay at home or step back your career to care for them; whether he might stay home or step back his career; what sort of culture and environment you want to raise them in; your views on education and time with extended family; etc. etc.?
What did he dislike about life in your city when he lived there? How much of that is workable?
It sounds like since most of your time together has been spent in his area, you two don't have experience living together on your turf, not only with respect to location but with respect to living around your schedule, your friends, your local life, your family life, etc. You've shown you can adapt to his world, but if you're thinking of staying together you should find out how willing and able he is to adapt to yours.
Beyond that, I agree with the other comments to be careful that your own reluctance to ask others for things that might make them unhappy doesn't default to you being the one who takes on things that make you unhappy. That holds for both your SO and your parents.
posted by trig at 3:14 AM on January 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
Figure out if there's a way you and your boyfriend could have a happy life together in the same city (or in different cities with *both* of you making the effort to travel to see each other...married people living in different cities is a thing).
Re: your parents, enough is enough. Tell them you're not going to listen to any more badmouthing of your boyfriend, and when they do it, leave or hang up the phone. You're an adult and you need to make relationship decisions that will make YOU happy even if they're not the same decisions that would make your parents happy. There are a couple of reasons for this: (1) You're the one who has to live with whoever you marry for the rest of your life. Your parents are not going to be around forever, anyway. Worry about what/who will make YOU happy. (2) If you break up with your boyfriend to make your parents happy, do you really think your relationship with them will just magically go back to being idyllic? These years of fighting and tears have likely taken their toll, and you may very well feel resentful towards them for pressuring you to give up a boyfriend you loved.
posted by sunflower16 at 3:25 AM on January 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
Re: your parents, enough is enough. Tell them you're not going to listen to any more badmouthing of your boyfriend, and when they do it, leave or hang up the phone. You're an adult and you need to make relationship decisions that will make YOU happy even if they're not the same decisions that would make your parents happy. There are a couple of reasons for this: (1) You're the one who has to live with whoever you marry for the rest of your life. Your parents are not going to be around forever, anyway. Worry about what/who will make YOU happy. (2) If you break up with your boyfriend to make your parents happy, do you really think your relationship with them will just magically go back to being idyllic? These years of fighting and tears have likely taken their toll, and you may very well feel resentful towards them for pressuring you to give up a boyfriend you loved.
posted by sunflower16 at 3:25 AM on January 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
As noted above, you're the one making all of the sacrifices, where he doesn't have to go out of his way for you at all. He seriously NEVER comes to Big City to see you? To enjoy the amenities with you, see your place, see what you love about Big City? Not okay. I was in a LDR for two and a half years and we explicitly talked about wanting to make the travel 50/50 because it wasn't fair to either of us if we didn't. Is he at least splitting the cost of travel with you?
Also, it's cool that this guy loves you but it's not okay to think of relationships as a "waste of time" if you don't get married by a certain point. If he's willing to dismiss what you've had up to this point as a "waste of time", that's pretty awful of him.
If you want him to be your partner long term, make a list of the things you need in this relationship and what you need from him, like, him taking on the travel to visit you for the next year, discussing what you want to do together instead of him just telling you what's going to happen, etc.
The conditions of your relationship should be something you and your parter agree on, not something he dictates to you. I think this is very unbalanced and messed up, and it's not fair to put that burden on you, or to expect you to be on the same internal time schedule.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:51 AM on January 14, 2019 [8 favorites]
Also, it's cool that this guy loves you but it's not okay to think of relationships as a "waste of time" if you don't get married by a certain point. If he's willing to dismiss what you've had up to this point as a "waste of time", that's pretty awful of him.
If you want him to be your partner long term, make a list of the things you need in this relationship and what you need from him, like, him taking on the travel to visit you for the next year, discussing what you want to do together instead of him just telling you what's going to happen, etc.
The conditions of your relationship should be something you and your parter agree on, not something he dictates to you. I think this is very unbalanced and messed up, and it's not fair to put that burden on you, or to expect you to be on the same internal time schedule.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:51 AM on January 14, 2019 [8 favorites]
I’m driving both of us crazy with the uncertainty since marriage is important to him. If we don’t get married then I’m just wasting his time.
These both sound like his perspective. What I want for you out of all of this, to echo what some others have said: I want you to listen to your own inner voice in this. What is difficult or annoying about the situation? What do you wish were different? Listen to yourself, not to be negative, but to have a realistic view of what you want and need out of this, not just what everyone around you wants. Don't let yourself be pushed into marriage if it doesn't feel right and if you're the only one making sacrifices, just because someone else is feeling their age and has a timeline.
posted by limeonaire at 6:19 AM on January 14, 2019 [15 favorites]
These both sound like his perspective. What I want for you out of all of this, to echo what some others have said: I want you to listen to your own inner voice in this. What is difficult or annoying about the situation? What do you wish were different? Listen to yourself, not to be negative, but to have a realistic view of what you want and need out of this, not just what everyone around you wants. Don't let yourself be pushed into marriage if it doesn't feel right and if you're the only one making sacrifices, just because someone else is feeling their age and has a timeline.
posted by limeonaire at 6:19 AM on January 14, 2019 [15 favorites]
This clip from Stephen Colbert is very clarifying for people who aren't sure whether to get married or not. It simplifies the question pretty well.
posted by pipti at 6:28 AM on January 14, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by pipti at 6:28 AM on January 14, 2019 [12 favorites]
I'm you, 25 years later. For a few years now, I've been wishing -- oh, so hard -- that I never married him. And I'm working on making my way out of the marriage.
Good luck to you.
posted by KleenexMakesaVeryGoodHat at 6:51 AM on January 14, 2019 [18 favorites]
Good luck to you.
posted by KleenexMakesaVeryGoodHat at 6:51 AM on January 14, 2019 [18 favorites]
I actually see never arguing as a red flag that someone isn’t speaking up and is setting their own needs and preferences aside to go along to get along. Based on your description, that someone seems to be you.
Like others, I see red flags in his never coming to see you and making a unilateral decision about where to live based on what is best for him.
Good luck and take care.
posted by bighappyhairydog at 7:05 AM on January 14, 2019 [22 favorites]
Like others, I see red flags in his never coming to see you and making a unilateral decision about where to live based on what is best for him.
Good luck and take care.
posted by bighappyhairydog at 7:05 AM on January 14, 2019 [22 favorites]
Your relationship with your boyfriend cannot progress because your lives are not compatible and one of you really can't/won't give up your life/career for the other. If it's "get married or break up," you will be breaking up. I'm sorry to tell you that, but if you want to stay in Big City or he wants to stay in Small, you need to date someone who wants to live in your own city if moving isn't something anyone wants to do. If you give up things or move (or he does), odds are the relationship ends up miserable anyway because one of you hates the rest of your life that isn't the SO. It'll be doomed one way or the other.
As for your parents, I suspect they would be godawful to you with any boyfriend you had unless they picked him out for you. I can't really tell you what to do there because I found out that giving up on dating was the best solution for me and nobody but me is going to pick that one. But they will be shitty no matter who you are with unless they control the situation.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:12 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
As for your parents, I suspect they would be godawful to you with any boyfriend you had unless they picked him out for you. I can't really tell you what to do there because I found out that giving up on dating was the best solution for me and nobody but me is going to pick that one. But they will be shitty no matter who you are with unless they control the situation.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:12 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
I won’t ask him to do anything that makes him unhappy!
Before you get married to anyone, but especially before you get married to this someone, you need to really, deeply sit with this statement.
You need to feel the weight of what you've said here.
It's huge.
Are you truly going to live your entire life with someone that you won't ask to do anything that makes them unhappy? In my marriage, which has mostly by luck but a little by work been one of the greatest sources of joy in my life, my husband and I have have asked -- and ask - each other regularly to do things that make us unhappy. We ask, we talk, we reflect together. We trade. We work it out. We try it and see if we can become happy. We try it and realize we can't, so we make further unhappy asks.
Everyone loses. Everyone wins.
My daughter died and we buried her.
We moved to Ottawa, which made me unhappy.
We moved back, which made him unhappy.
We had kids, which makes us so happy, and occasionally so trapped.
He found a local passion, which made me lonely.
I got involved, which made us both happy.
I travel with a SO once a year, the days of can be very stressful on him.
He does meditation retreats, the days of which can be very stressful on me.
Life is long. We're not even in the worst of aging parents, aging siblings, aging us...dying.
The flip side of that statement you made, of course, is what he gets to ask or not ask you to do anything which makes you unhappy.
I think it is possible to have a strong and happy marriage where no one asks anyone to do anything unnecessary that makes each other unhappy...but only if both people are equally failing to ask. It doesn't sound like this is the case. He was perfectly happy to ask you to move to Small City. He's been perfectly happy to ask you to travel, which tires you out.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:17 AM on January 14, 2019 [57 favorites]
Before you get married to anyone, but especially before you get married to this someone, you need to really, deeply sit with this statement.
You need to feel the weight of what you've said here.
It's huge.
Are you truly going to live your entire life with someone that you won't ask to do anything that makes them unhappy? In my marriage, which has mostly by luck but a little by work been one of the greatest sources of joy in my life, my husband and I have have asked -- and ask - each other regularly to do things that make us unhappy. We ask, we talk, we reflect together. We trade. We work it out. We try it and see if we can become happy. We try it and realize we can't, so we make further unhappy asks.
Everyone loses. Everyone wins.
My daughter died and we buried her.
We moved to Ottawa, which made me unhappy.
We moved back, which made him unhappy.
We had kids, which makes us so happy, and occasionally so trapped.
He found a local passion, which made me lonely.
I got involved, which made us both happy.
I travel with a SO once a year, the days of can be very stressful on him.
He does meditation retreats, the days of which can be very stressful on me.
Life is long. We're not even in the worst of aging parents, aging siblings, aging us...dying.
The flip side of that statement you made, of course, is what he gets to ask or not ask you to do anything which makes you unhappy.
I think it is possible to have a strong and happy marriage where no one asks anyone to do anything unnecessary that makes each other unhappy...but only if both people are equally failing to ask. It doesn't sound like this is the case. He was perfectly happy to ask you to move to Small City. He's been perfectly happy to ask you to travel, which tires you out.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:17 AM on January 14, 2019 [57 favorites]
Just wanted to add that this -
He could find a similar job in Big City but he would need to settle for a lower position (Big City is more competitive) and doesn't want to
- sounds purely speculative, unless he's actually been making a serious effort all this time to find work in your city. Otherwise, he doesn't actually know what's out there. (Even if it is as bad as he says, he could at least give himself the chance to luck into something good.)
posted by trig at 7:33 AM on January 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
He could find a similar job in Big City but he would need to settle for a lower position (Big City is more competitive) and doesn't want to
- sounds purely speculative, unless he's actually been making a serious effort all this time to find work in your city. Otherwise, he doesn't actually know what's out there. (Even if it is as bad as he says, he could at least give himself the chance to luck into something good.)
posted by trig at 7:33 AM on January 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
I knew someone who left someone she cared about and an excellent job to marry someone her parents arranged for her to marry and then she moved to his state. Presumably, she quit her job she worked hard for. She felt that she would lose her parents' love and their social standing in the eyes of their peers.
She chose her parents. Followed their wishes. She thought it was the right thing to do but she had doubts and wanted to call it off. By that point, the arrangements had already been made and she felt it was too late to cancel. She went ahead and got married and I haven't heard about how she's doing now. I hope she's happy, but I'm sad for her that she felt obligated to completely change her life. I couldn't and wouldn't do that.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:41 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
She chose her parents. Followed their wishes. She thought it was the right thing to do but she had doubts and wanted to call it off. By that point, the arrangements had already been made and she felt it was too late to cancel. She went ahead and got married and I haven't heard about how she's doing now. I hope she's happy, but I'm sad for her that she felt obligated to completely change her life. I couldn't and wouldn't do that.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:41 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
I also feel like I'm making all this drama
Why do you feel like having a say in how you live your life is drama? Focus on yourself and what you want. My opinion? Break up and focus on yourself and your career. If you happen to get into another relationship, tell your parents that they are welcome to share their opinion but draw boundaries. Don't let them make you cry. Don't let it get to that point. Now is a great time to learn more about yourself and what you want out of life and a partner and maybe redefining the relationship you have with your parents as you go into your thirties. Good luck.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:47 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
Why do you feel like having a say in how you live your life is drama? Focus on yourself and what you want. My opinion? Break up and focus on yourself and your career. If you happen to get into another relationship, tell your parents that they are welcome to share their opinion but draw boundaries. Don't let them make you cry. Don't let it get to that point. Now is a great time to learn more about yourself and what you want out of life and a partner and maybe redefining the relationship you have with your parents as you go into your thirties. Good luck.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:47 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
Most of the people I know who got divorced had chosen "get married" when the relationship reached the "well, we either get married in the next 18 months or we break up" stage. There are lots of reasons to get married and only some of them are romantic--a lot of them are practical--but if the most compelling reason you have for getting married is that otherwise you're going to break up, don't get married. The most compelling reason for marriage you have given is that otherwise you are wasting his time. That's a not a reason to get married. That's not a reason to leave your career and your town. That's not a reason to keep fighting with your parents about your relationship.
I agree with most people in this thread that you need to listen to your quietest inside-yourself-voice, and let it be the only voice you listen to for a few days, at least, while asking whether or not your should get married to this man. Even if all that voice is saying to you right now is "I don't know", heed it. If you don't know that you want to be married to this man, living in his Small City, 18 months from now, don't get engaged. If that means you break up, then you'll deal with that.
There's some great stuff in this thread about how good relationships are about both people ordering their lives to accommodate each other. Think about that. Think about what that means. Honestly consider whether that is happening in this relationship. Sure, sometimes the best choice--when you're choosing as a couple--is something that one of you prefers less than the other does but that if there is not reasonable balance in those choices, if there is not a constant adjustment over who gets centered in the decisionmaking, something is not right.
Learn how to center yourself in your decisionmaking before you get the habit of always centering other people. Don't get married until both you and your partner have learned how to make decisions together which sometimes center you and sometimes center your partner all while building toward a joint goal of strength and longevity in your life together.
posted by crush at 8:11 AM on January 14, 2019 [16 favorites]
I agree with most people in this thread that you need to listen to your quietest inside-yourself-voice, and let it be the only voice you listen to for a few days, at least, while asking whether or not your should get married to this man. Even if all that voice is saying to you right now is "I don't know", heed it. If you don't know that you want to be married to this man, living in his Small City, 18 months from now, don't get engaged. If that means you break up, then you'll deal with that.
There's some great stuff in this thread about how good relationships are about both people ordering their lives to accommodate each other. Think about that. Think about what that means. Honestly consider whether that is happening in this relationship. Sure, sometimes the best choice--when you're choosing as a couple--is something that one of you prefers less than the other does but that if there is not reasonable balance in those choices, if there is not a constant adjustment over who gets centered in the decisionmaking, something is not right.
Learn how to center yourself in your decisionmaking before you get the habit of always centering other people. Don't get married until both you and your partner have learned how to make decisions together which sometimes center you and sometimes center your partner all while building toward a joint goal of strength and longevity in your life together.
posted by crush at 8:11 AM on January 14, 2019 [16 favorites]
I want to say that it is possible that your parents are behaving terribly AND that some element of what they are saying is resonating with you, and that's okay. This isn't a "is boyfriend right or parents right?" question. It is okay to want someone who is culturally compatible with you, and who wants the same things and to live in the same place, AND to reject your parents' interference. I very strongly want to live in the city I live in, and I found a partner who happily wants the same thing. If either of us got an awesome job offer in another place, it would be a major dilemma--not because of some tit-for-tat of "who's giving up more," but because one of us would likely be profoundly unhappy in another place, and having one person in a marriage being profoundly unhappy is a big problem. That's not anyone's fault, it's just your circumstances. It's okay if what you want doesn't mesh, and to say goodbye.
posted by pipti at 8:19 AM on January 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by pipti at 8:19 AM on January 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
If you marry this dude you're just adding domineering husband to your already domineering family, which is all-too-common a pattern.
You're saying this: so responsible and considerate and loving, but we're not getting any of that from the rest of your concerns or from his described behavior.
We're getting:
He previously told me I have to move to Small City full time
If we don’t get married then I’m just wasting his time.
These are shitty sentiments, and based on the rest of the inequality in this relationship already I suspect that you should break up with him. And seriously, take a break from your parents, too. Are you living with them? With the money you're blowing visiting this guy you could probably afford to move out, at least into a roommate situation. I get that you want to make them happy, but wealthy families can dangle money over their children in really manipulative ways, and you're going to be much happier in the long run if you can assert yourself a little here.
And finally:
it’s also clear to me that on a fundamental level I don’t want to break up with my boyfriend, and that’s why I haven't been able to actually do it although I think about it constantly
That fundamental level that you don't want to break up with him on? That's something most people feel when they're in a relationship, however terrible it might be, because most humans want to be in relationships.
You're constantly thinking about breaking up with him! That isn't something most people feel when they're in a relationship, until there's something wrong with the relationship. This is no foundation for a relationship, let alone a marriage. This internet stranger encourages you to break up with him, cut your parents out a little more, and maybe have a fling with someone you've had a crush on for a while.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:44 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
You're saying this: so responsible and considerate and loving, but we're not getting any of that from the rest of your concerns or from his described behavior.
We're getting:
He previously told me I have to move to Small City full time
If we don’t get married then I’m just wasting his time.
These are shitty sentiments, and based on the rest of the inequality in this relationship already I suspect that you should break up with him. And seriously, take a break from your parents, too. Are you living with them? With the money you're blowing visiting this guy you could probably afford to move out, at least into a roommate situation. I get that you want to make them happy, but wealthy families can dangle money over their children in really manipulative ways, and you're going to be much happier in the long run if you can assert yourself a little here.
And finally:
it’s also clear to me that on a fundamental level I don’t want to break up with my boyfriend, and that’s why I haven't been able to actually do it although I think about it constantly
That fundamental level that you don't want to break up with him on? That's something most people feel when they're in a relationship, however terrible it might be, because most humans want to be in relationships.
You're constantly thinking about breaking up with him! That isn't something most people feel when they're in a relationship, until there's something wrong with the relationship. This is no foundation for a relationship, let alone a marriage. This internet stranger encourages you to break up with him, cut your parents out a little more, and maybe have a fling with someone you've had a crush on for a while.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:44 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
Before marriage, people are on their best behavior in the relationship. You are bending over backwards to be ‘reasonable’ and accommodate his wishes; you may be much less willing to do that after being married for a while having given up your city and your preferred work. And he’s already putting his own needs and feelings above yours; that’s more likely to get worse, not better. You don’t live together full time, and that usually means the romance remains stronger while reality takes somewhat of a back seat.
posted by wryly at 9:57 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by wryly at 9:57 AM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
You don’t sound like you want to get or be married to this person, though he may be lovely enough. I think you definitely need to separate yourself from the opinions of your parents but the way to do this is not to generally to push past your resistance to a different figure in your life. Spend some time alone amd figure out what you want.
posted by vunder at 10:07 AM on January 14, 2019
posted by vunder at 10:07 AM on January 14, 2019
I won’t ask him to do anything that makes him unhappy!
There's a type of man out there (and probably woman, but I've only dated men) who has their life set out in front of them and wants their partner to fit into the small space they've left for that person to squeeze themselves into. These men don't make life compromises. They don't move for you. They've already decided where they will live, how they will live, and you can join them for the ride or you can fuck off.
Your boyfriend is one of those men. He has no issue with asking you to make choices that make you unhappy, and honestly he's probably picking you for marriage because you've been happy to do what he's asked while also not asking for anything.
I wouldn't marry him. Or date him. Maybe you'd be happy riding as his passenger, but personally I like having a say in my life.
This relationship might feel comfortable to you because in mirrors your relationship with your parents in this way. You've been raised to do what you're told and not to ask for what you want. Your parents abuse you when you don't stick to their rules, your boyfriend will leave you if you don't follow his.
There are people out there who will want to compromise with you, who will want to do their second choice solely because it's your first choice.
posted by Dynex at 10:31 AM on January 14, 2019 [24 favorites]
There's a type of man out there (and probably woman, but I've only dated men) who has their life set out in front of them and wants their partner to fit into the small space they've left for that person to squeeze themselves into. These men don't make life compromises. They don't move for you. They've already decided where they will live, how they will live, and you can join them for the ride or you can fuck off.
Your boyfriend is one of those men. He has no issue with asking you to make choices that make you unhappy, and honestly he's probably picking you for marriage because you've been happy to do what he's asked while also not asking for anything.
I wouldn't marry him. Or date him. Maybe you'd be happy riding as his passenger, but personally I like having a say in my life.
This relationship might feel comfortable to you because in mirrors your relationship with your parents in this way. You've been raised to do what you're told and not to ask for what you want. Your parents abuse you when you don't stick to their rules, your boyfriend will leave you if you don't follow his.
There are people out there who will want to compromise with you, who will want to do their second choice solely because it's your first choice.
posted by Dynex at 10:31 AM on January 14, 2019 [24 favorites]
"If we don't get married, I'm just wasting his time"
You know, fuck that noise. You - the time he spends with you, what you give him of yourself now - that isn't a waste of time. He has agency - he could break up with you and find a small town woman already in town. He could move to big city. In short - he could compromise, and prioritize goals. He isn't, and he isn't taking any responsibility, but putting it all on you. He may love you, but it sounds like a selfish kind of love. There are other kinds.
I think the words you tell your love are: If we don't get married, I would be sad.
But you're wasting his time? No, nobody is wasting anyone's time, as long as there is happiness and growth. But the lesson may be painful.
Look - it is possible to be deeply in love with someone you aren't compatible with, and neither of you is willing to compromse because 'becoming us', means giving up something important that makes you you. It's bittersweet, it hurts, but it heals as long as you are true to yourself about what you need to maintain your health and sanity. I had a friend whose love was from Germany and he was American. They broke up because he German person really wanted to go home and the American couldn't see a life in Germany. They went no contact for a while, and now are friends, with different partners.
Basically, you deserve someone who sees themselves in big city with you. Someone who isn't going to guilt you for having to 'give up their dream' to come to big city. Someone who knows how important community is to someone with depression and isn't going to pressure you into moving to small town. That isn't this guy, and you don't deserve the burden of carrying his happiness - you've done so much already - always traveling to small town for him.
I know you are thinking about what you would be giving up in letting him go, but think about what remains and you would gain. I say break up, let him go find someone who wants to live in small town - not someone who would resent being in small down in 6 months, live your life in big city
(without the weight of feeling like you need to make big city okay for him) and see how you both feel about it in 6 months. Does he miss you enough to give up small town, do you miss him enough to give up big city, does it feel like a loss to you, or are you happier? Is he?
I say take the leap and let him go.
posted by anitanita at 10:50 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
You know, fuck that noise. You - the time he spends with you, what you give him of yourself now - that isn't a waste of time. He has agency - he could break up with you and find a small town woman already in town. He could move to big city. In short - he could compromise, and prioritize goals. He isn't, and he isn't taking any responsibility, but putting it all on you. He may love you, but it sounds like a selfish kind of love. There are other kinds.
I think the words you tell your love are: If we don't get married, I would be sad.
But you're wasting his time? No, nobody is wasting anyone's time, as long as there is happiness and growth. But the lesson may be painful.
Look - it is possible to be deeply in love with someone you aren't compatible with, and neither of you is willing to compromse because 'becoming us', means giving up something important that makes you you. It's bittersweet, it hurts, but it heals as long as you are true to yourself about what you need to maintain your health and sanity. I had a friend whose love was from Germany and he was American. They broke up because he German person really wanted to go home and the American couldn't see a life in Germany. They went no contact for a while, and now are friends, with different partners.
Basically, you deserve someone who sees themselves in big city with you. Someone who isn't going to guilt you for having to 'give up their dream' to come to big city. Someone who knows how important community is to someone with depression and isn't going to pressure you into moving to small town. That isn't this guy, and you don't deserve the burden of carrying his happiness - you've done so much already - always traveling to small town for him.
I know you are thinking about what you would be giving up in letting him go, but think about what remains and you would gain. I say break up, let him go find someone who wants to live in small town - not someone who would resent being in small down in 6 months, live your life in big city
(without the weight of feeling like you need to make big city okay for him) and see how you both feel about it in 6 months. Does he miss you enough to give up small town, do you miss him enough to give up big city, does it feel like a loss to you, or are you happier? Is he?
I say take the leap and let him go.
posted by anitanita at 10:50 AM on January 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
if the most compelling reason you have for getting married is that otherwise you're going to break up, don't get married
I need to emphasize this - because this (engaged vs. break up) impasse leads to marriage and it's bananas.
If this is the choice you're struggling with, I can imagine you'll be doubting yourself the whole way. If the answer to "should I get married" is not a hell yes, it's a hell no. It's too big a decision to wiffle with, and "undoing" a marriage through divorce or other means is super difficult, can be expensive and totally annoying.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:18 AM on January 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
I need to emphasize this - because this (engaged vs. break up) impasse leads to marriage and it's bananas.
If this is the choice you're struggling with, I can imagine you'll be doubting yourself the whole way. If the answer to "should I get married" is not a hell yes, it's a hell no. It's too big a decision to wiffle with, and "undoing" a marriage through divorce or other means is super difficult, can be expensive and totally annoying.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:18 AM on January 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
And even though I worry so much about our future together, it’s also clear to me that on a fundamental level I don’t want to break up with my boyfriend, and that’s why I haven't been able to actually do it although I think about it constantly.
If you didn't want to break up with him, you wouldn't think about it constantly.
I see this as being a situation where you are dying to break up with him but maybe are struggling because you don't think he deserves it. Breaking up with someone is really hard! It truly hurts. And it's especially hard when on the surface, the relationship actually seems pretty good. And maybe you are worried you won't find a better partner.
But it really doesn't sound like you want to marry him at all.
I am here to give you permission to break up with him.
posted by wondermouse at 6:52 PM on January 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you didn't want to break up with him, you wouldn't think about it constantly.
I see this as being a situation where you are dying to break up with him but maybe are struggling because you don't think he deserves it. Breaking up with someone is really hard! It truly hurts. And it's especially hard when on the surface, the relationship actually seems pretty good. And maybe you are worried you won't find a better partner.
But it really doesn't sound like you want to marry him at all.
I am here to give you permission to break up with him.
posted by wondermouse at 6:52 PM on January 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
Hold on.. if you're having daily fights in tears with your parents, are you living with them by chance? At the very least you're seeing them daily by your description? If your parents hate this man so much that they're willing to put you through daily hell over him, and are a part of your daily life, is it really any wonder why your boyfriend might not be comfortable visiting you at your place? Furthermore, is it at all possible that he's suggesting you move there to get away from your toxic relationship with them that's causing you so much distress?
And why the pile-on about him wanting marriage. 30's is a time when people of both sexes tend to start putting timelines and ultimatums on relationships that they would like to lead towards a family due to biological, investment and lifestyle factors.
posted by OnefortheLast at 7:25 PM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
And why the pile-on about him wanting marriage. 30's is a time when people of both sexes tend to start putting timelines and ultimatums on relationships that they would like to lead towards a family due to biological, investment and lifestyle factors.
posted by OnefortheLast at 7:25 PM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
Ill also add that it sounds more like you're trying to take the path of least resistance, or easiest out of the daily abuse from your parents. If you break up with him, then maybe they'll stop abusing you? Maybe I'm wrong here too of course...
His reasons for not moving are valid: he wants to keep his job to be able to support you and a family... but then there is more piling on about him being domineering, even though he has also offered to move to your city despite all of this.
I don't actually see any reason in your post to break up with this man other than to just finally shut your parents up. Which may be exactly what they've been doing it for. You may or may not find someone else they approve of ever. You may or may not find someone else you love as much and get along with as well again ever. That's a chance you'll have to take if you break up. right.now. to make it all stop. I don't think this is a time to act impulsively.
I think you need to get into some type of therapy or counseling to have an impartial 3rd party help you sort out where your exhaustion, depression and doubt is really coming from, and to help you create some healthy boundaries with everyone, so you can make decisions from a place of confidence insyead of a place of being worn down.
A good partner and good parents would be totally understanding of this, so if your boyfriend is willing to put off an engagement for the time being while you do this, then that is a really good sign for your relationship with him. If your parents aren't willing to stfu while you do this, then that is a really bad sign for your relationship with them.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:09 PM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
His reasons for not moving are valid: he wants to keep his job to be able to support you and a family... but then there is more piling on about him being domineering, even though he has also offered to move to your city despite all of this.
I don't actually see any reason in your post to break up with this man other than to just finally shut your parents up. Which may be exactly what they've been doing it for. You may or may not find someone else they approve of ever. You may or may not find someone else you love as much and get along with as well again ever. That's a chance you'll have to take if you break up. right.now. to make it all stop. I don't think this is a time to act impulsively.
I think you need to get into some type of therapy or counseling to have an impartial 3rd party help you sort out where your exhaustion, depression and doubt is really coming from, and to help you create some healthy boundaries with everyone, so you can make decisions from a place of confidence insyead of a place of being worn down.
A good partner and good parents would be totally understanding of this, so if your boyfriend is willing to put off an engagement for the time being while you do this, then that is a really good sign for your relationship with him. If your parents aren't willing to stfu while you do this, then that is a really bad sign for your relationship with them.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:09 PM on January 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
This is a sockpuppet, because it sounds kind of douchey to tell you that I am a child of a somewhat wealthy immigrant family, but I wanted to try to give my perspective.
There are obvious benefits to growing up in a 'good family', but one of the things that can happen is that your family demands things that you don't want, and you become used to suppressing your own inner voice that tells you what you want. Over time, you can get really attuned to what other people want, and not very in touch with what you want. I can read this as kind of 'This is what my parents want from me' vs 'This is what my partner wants from me', but it's not completely clear what you want. For people like me, well, there are a lot of people I can 'never fight' with, because I'm good at getting along with people. Just because I'm good at suppressing what I want doesn't mean that it never comes out, though. And just because it's your parents saying something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're wrong. Also, it's perfectly valid to break up with people who you get along with just fine for long-term reasons, like if they want kids and you don't.
I also wanted to write because I think it's very easy for people not raised in a family-oriented environment to give advice to tell your parents to go pound sand. It's not that simple. As I got older, the demands for me to marry somebody 'appropriate' of 'similar background' got less and less. I did not end up marrying exactly according to the wishes of my parents, so I will tell you that if you do decide to get married, and you make it work, and they see that it's working, they may come around. (Grandkids helped a lot, but I see you're on the fence about it). Also know that if you do end up marrying, your partner will likely have demands about your relationship with your parents.
I also don't know how much financial support you receive from your parents. You mention that your career is starting and your salary is unreliable, and I don't want to assume, but the more people are paying for things, the more they want a say in things. If they are supporting you financially, it will be much more difficult to convince them that you can do well marrying whomever you choose, particularly if they don't feel that your partner of choice is financially stable.
Anyway, I guess my advice is to try to get down deep in yourself and figure out what you want, not what your parents or your boyfriend want. If you know he wants to marry you, but deep down inside you are feeling conflicted, something is going on.
posted by Dogulas at 6:47 AM on January 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
There are obvious benefits to growing up in a 'good family', but one of the things that can happen is that your family demands things that you don't want, and you become used to suppressing your own inner voice that tells you what you want. Over time, you can get really attuned to what other people want, and not very in touch with what you want. I can read this as kind of 'This is what my parents want from me' vs 'This is what my partner wants from me', but it's not completely clear what you want. For people like me, well, there are a lot of people I can 'never fight' with, because I'm good at getting along with people. Just because I'm good at suppressing what I want doesn't mean that it never comes out, though. And just because it's your parents saying something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're wrong. Also, it's perfectly valid to break up with people who you get along with just fine for long-term reasons, like if they want kids and you don't.
I also wanted to write because I think it's very easy for people not raised in a family-oriented environment to give advice to tell your parents to go pound sand. It's not that simple. As I got older, the demands for me to marry somebody 'appropriate' of 'similar background' got less and less. I did not end up marrying exactly according to the wishes of my parents, so I will tell you that if you do decide to get married, and you make it work, and they see that it's working, they may come around. (Grandkids helped a lot, but I see you're on the fence about it). Also know that if you do end up marrying, your partner will likely have demands about your relationship with your parents.
I also don't know how much financial support you receive from your parents. You mention that your career is starting and your salary is unreliable, and I don't want to assume, but the more people are paying for things, the more they want a say in things. If they are supporting you financially, it will be much more difficult to convince them that you can do well marrying whomever you choose, particularly if they don't feel that your partner of choice is financially stable.
Anyway, I guess my advice is to try to get down deep in yourself and figure out what you want, not what your parents or your boyfriend want. If you know he wants to marry you, but deep down inside you are feeling conflicted, something is going on.
posted by Dogulas at 6:47 AM on January 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
There's no reason to assume that people giving advice to tell your parents to piss off aren't from family-oriented environments. I'm one of those people who posted that advice above, and I'm very close to my family, and I've been through a situation where my parents disapproved of the person I was with. We're very family-oriented which is why the situation was so difficult - no one ever said it was easy. Not even close.
And yet, it must be done. What I realized during that experience of dating someone my parents disapproved of was that they'd put me in a lose-lose situation. Even if I cowed to their wishes and broke up my relationship to make them happy, my relationship with them was not going to magically return to what it was. I would've been resentful towards them the rest of my life. (Have you seen Crazy Rich Asians? This is exactly the point made in the mah jong scene.)
This is why I say you ultimately need to do what's right for you and be with whoever you decide YOU want to be with, even if your parents don't approve.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:35 AM on January 15, 2019
And yet, it must be done. What I realized during that experience of dating someone my parents disapproved of was that they'd put me in a lose-lose situation. Even if I cowed to their wishes and broke up my relationship to make them happy, my relationship with them was not going to magically return to what it was. I would've been resentful towards them the rest of my life. (Have you seen Crazy Rich Asians? This is exactly the point made in the mah jong scene.)
This is why I say you ultimately need to do what's right for you and be with whoever you decide YOU want to be with, even if your parents don't approve.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:35 AM on January 15, 2019
He doesn't have to be a monster for it to be not right. Just because you gave someone a few years doesn't mean you owe them your life. Break up.
Then figure out whether your values match your family of origin or not...before you start dating again. Seize your future! You don't need this agony.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 6:06 PM on January 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
Then figure out whether your values match your family of origin or not...before you start dating again. Seize your future! You don't need this agony.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 6:06 PM on January 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
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posted by WitchCat at 1:57 AM on January 14, 2019 [6 favorites]