My borderline sister is destroying my relationship with our parents
November 5, 2018 8:30 PM Subscribe
How do I maintain a good relationship with my parents while minimizing contact with my BPD sister, who lives with them?
My sister is an undiagnosed borderline. I was seriously depressed until I realized, well into adulthood, what was going on and minimized contact. Now, she resents me, I presume because I don't let her manipulate me anymore. She still has frequent outbursts of blind rage in which she hurls hurtful personal attacks at others.
She recently moved back in with our aging parents. Sadly, they have to bear the brunt of her outbursts. I see the toll this has taken on their happiness, their self-confidence, and their outlook on life. They do enable her in a lot of ways that I disagree with, but the bottom line is that they're loving, kind parents, and kicking their kid out of the house is not an option for them. If it helps to understand the situation, my parents are immigrants from South Asia, where family ties are paramount.
I want to visit them more, but I don't want to interact with her. They constantly entreat me to reconcile my relationship with her - to them, family comes first, and they keep telling me that this is just childish sibling rivalry. I'm hurt that they won't even acknowledge the depression and confusion I went through because of her. This has strained my relationship with my parents - they feel that, by refusing to bring my sister back into my life, I'm denying them the happy, harmonious family life they always envisioned.
When I go to visit them, I feel tense the entire time because I never know when she's going to come around the corner and yell at me or someone else for some random thing. I actually don't like going to visit my parents' house because her presence seriously stresses me out, but I want to see them. I don't want her to keep me from them. This whole reconciliation thing has also caused a lot of fights between me and my parents, where I try to get them to understand what's going on and they dismiss my story.
My question is, how do I visit my parents while keeping my distance from my sister? I have fought so hard for my own sanity and independence and don't want to jeopardize that, but I also love and respect my parents and want to do right by them. What is acceptable? Can I reasonably say, "We can go out to lunch as long as [sister] doesn't come along"? If my sister's going through a particularly mean/rageful phase, can I say, "I do not want to visit you for the next few weeks, but you can visit me"? Can I demand that they not mention her in front of me? Is it acceptable to encourage them to suggest psychiatric help to my sister? I don't want to force my parents to choose between me and her, but I think that I may have to sometimes.
I have zero intention to extend an olive branch to my sister, but cutting off my parents is not an option, even if they have not been super supportive of me on this particular topic.
It would be particularly helpful to hear from people who come from immigrant backgrounds because of the unique family dynamics, but all advice would be very, very much appreciated.
My sister is an undiagnosed borderline. I was seriously depressed until I realized, well into adulthood, what was going on and minimized contact. Now, she resents me, I presume because I don't let her manipulate me anymore. She still has frequent outbursts of blind rage in which she hurls hurtful personal attacks at others.
She recently moved back in with our aging parents. Sadly, they have to bear the brunt of her outbursts. I see the toll this has taken on their happiness, their self-confidence, and their outlook on life. They do enable her in a lot of ways that I disagree with, but the bottom line is that they're loving, kind parents, and kicking their kid out of the house is not an option for them. If it helps to understand the situation, my parents are immigrants from South Asia, where family ties are paramount.
I want to visit them more, but I don't want to interact with her. They constantly entreat me to reconcile my relationship with her - to them, family comes first, and they keep telling me that this is just childish sibling rivalry. I'm hurt that they won't even acknowledge the depression and confusion I went through because of her. This has strained my relationship with my parents - they feel that, by refusing to bring my sister back into my life, I'm denying them the happy, harmonious family life they always envisioned.
When I go to visit them, I feel tense the entire time because I never know when she's going to come around the corner and yell at me or someone else for some random thing. I actually don't like going to visit my parents' house because her presence seriously stresses me out, but I want to see them. I don't want her to keep me from them. This whole reconciliation thing has also caused a lot of fights between me and my parents, where I try to get them to understand what's going on and they dismiss my story.
My question is, how do I visit my parents while keeping my distance from my sister? I have fought so hard for my own sanity and independence and don't want to jeopardize that, but I also love and respect my parents and want to do right by them. What is acceptable? Can I reasonably say, "We can go out to lunch as long as [sister] doesn't come along"? If my sister's going through a particularly mean/rageful phase, can I say, "I do not want to visit you for the next few weeks, but you can visit me"? Can I demand that they not mention her in front of me? Is it acceptable to encourage them to suggest psychiatric help to my sister? I don't want to force my parents to choose between me and her, but I think that I may have to sometimes.
I have zero intention to extend an olive branch to my sister, but cutting off my parents is not an option, even if they have not been super supportive of me on this particular topic.
It would be particularly helpful to hear from people who come from immigrant backgrounds because of the unique family dynamics, but all advice would be very, very much appreciated.
Best answer: can I say, "I do not want to visit you for the next few weeks, but you can visit me"? Can I demand that they not mention her in front of me? Is it acceptable to encourage them to suggest psychiatric help to my sister?
I mean, you *can.* But none of those things sound harmonious, which is what your parents want. Can you find a compromise?
There have been a lot of times I was "sick" or "working" or "out of town with friends" that really I just didn't want to be around my family. Giving excuses allows them to save face.
Also, there's part of me that wants to be seen as the good daughter. And that is often at odds with doing what is right for me when a family situation is triggering me. So I have had to become more comfortable with being seen as the bad daughter. I view the "bad daughter" accusation like a child saying "bad mommy" when mom is doing something perfectly reasonable that the child doesn't like. Someone has to be the grownup, and sadly, it's you, and the immature little kids won't like it. But mature adults will.
I've gradually discovered how to do the bare minimum that helps my particular parents feel like their family is whole. Which holidays I need to show up at and which I can skip with a flimsy excuse, which traditions, which family rituals need to continue on a surface level. But I know--and I think the while family knows on some level--that family is really very broken and they're just in denial about how and why.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 9:16 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
I mean, you *can.* But none of those things sound harmonious, which is what your parents want. Can you find a compromise?
There have been a lot of times I was "sick" or "working" or "out of town with friends" that really I just didn't want to be around my family. Giving excuses allows them to save face.
Also, there's part of me that wants to be seen as the good daughter. And that is often at odds with doing what is right for me when a family situation is triggering me. So I have had to become more comfortable with being seen as the bad daughter. I view the "bad daughter" accusation like a child saying "bad mommy" when mom is doing something perfectly reasonable that the child doesn't like. Someone has to be the grownup, and sadly, it's you, and the immature little kids won't like it. But mature adults will.
I've gradually discovered how to do the bare minimum that helps my particular parents feel like their family is whole. Which holidays I need to show up at and which I can skip with a flimsy excuse, which traditions, which family rituals need to continue on a surface level. But I know--and I think the while family knows on some level--that family is really very broken and they're just in denial about how and why.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 9:16 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
Your feelings and experience is important and valid.
From your description, no one could possibly know what your sister’s diagnosis is. I grew up with a mentally ill abusive parent, so I TOTALLY get why being able to name her reactions and behavior is so important for you. I want to tell you that depending on your goals, it might not be helpful to think of her as BDP. And, like, I don’t want to turn you off, but my mother would be diagnosed BPD and lo’ these many many years later, I’m pretty certain my mother was (sexually) abused as a child and she would be more accurately diagnosed with ptsd. I mean, she was wildly abusive and flew off the handle all the time, but like, I also know now as an older person what might’ve been behind most of the awful shit she did.
Either way, just think of your sister as someone with a faulty nervous system, because that is an accurate and actionable description of her behavior. Your sister is raw, everything triggers her, everything is danger, she is manipulative because people who manipulate others lack a sense of self-control and internal stability.
Help your parents find resources to connect your sister with treatment and otherwise don’t go to their home. Make them see you separately from your sister. Don’t debate the issue, simply make this the way things are. Shut down your parents when they bug you by asking what they are doing to connect your sister with treatment. Wash, rinse, repeat.
You can maintain maximum boundaries and distance from your sister and still feel a lot of empathy for her. Your sister’s inner life sounds positively awful. You don’t have to fix her or get involved, she ceases to be a danger to you when you take your power back from her and your parents. Be plain, tell your parents “No” when they push you about her + ask them what they are doing to get her help. That’s all you need to do. Make them deal with your sister.
posted by jbenben at 9:18 PM on November 5, 2018 [9 favorites]
From your description, no one could possibly know what your sister’s diagnosis is. I grew up with a mentally ill abusive parent, so I TOTALLY get why being able to name her reactions and behavior is so important for you. I want to tell you that depending on your goals, it might not be helpful to think of her as BDP. And, like, I don’t want to turn you off, but my mother would be diagnosed BPD and lo’ these many many years later, I’m pretty certain my mother was (sexually) abused as a child and she would be more accurately diagnosed with ptsd. I mean, she was wildly abusive and flew off the handle all the time, but like, I also know now as an older person what might’ve been behind most of the awful shit she did.
Either way, just think of your sister as someone with a faulty nervous system, because that is an accurate and actionable description of her behavior. Your sister is raw, everything triggers her, everything is danger, she is manipulative because people who manipulate others lack a sense of self-control and internal stability.
Help your parents find resources to connect your sister with treatment and otherwise don’t go to their home. Make them see you separately from your sister. Don’t debate the issue, simply make this the way things are. Shut down your parents when they bug you by asking what they are doing to connect your sister with treatment. Wash, rinse, repeat.
You can maintain maximum boundaries and distance from your sister and still feel a lot of empathy for her. Your sister’s inner life sounds positively awful. You don’t have to fix her or get involved, she ceases to be a danger to you when you take your power back from her and your parents. Be plain, tell your parents “No” when they push you about her + ask them what they are doing to get her help. That’s all you need to do. Make them deal with your sister.
posted by jbenben at 9:18 PM on November 5, 2018 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: I wanted to thank everyone for their very insightful, very thoughtful replies so far.
jbenben, you mentioned something else that I could really use some advice on. My parents often ask me to try to "help my sister" - by reaching out to her and repairing her supposedly-broken self-esteem, making her feel that she has not been abandoned, convincing her to get therapy. I do not want to do any of this. Can I refuse to do this? Would it be wrong for me to turn this back onto my parents and recommend that they make these attempts?
Thank you again everyone, this is very helpful to me.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:31 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
jbenben, you mentioned something else that I could really use some advice on. My parents often ask me to try to "help my sister" - by reaching out to her and repairing her supposedly-broken self-esteem, making her feel that she has not been abandoned, convincing her to get therapy. I do not want to do any of this. Can I refuse to do this? Would it be wrong for me to turn this back onto my parents and recommend that they make these attempts?
Thank you again everyone, this is very helpful to me.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:31 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you’re asking whether it’s ok not to sacrifice your own well-being for the well-being of another adult, yes. It’s ok. What’s more, you cannot fix another person’s self esteem or fill their bottomless pit of need.
I know you asked jbenben specifically, but I wanted to chime in and be supportive.
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:58 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
I know you asked jbenben specifically, but I wanted to chime in and be supportive.
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:58 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
If your parents are pro-therapy for your sister, they can make it a condition of living in their home - no need to involve you.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:43 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:43 PM on November 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
To your parents when they press you: “Sister needs professional help non-professionals like us can’t provide. Are you willing to get her the professional help she needs?”
Or something like that. But a strong line that you can’t be involved unless they are actively getting her professional support and intervention.
Right now they are trying to make you solve their problem. Don’t be involved unless it is to provide them with phone numbers of healthcare professionals. Don’t even provide articles. Don’t be their support service professional. Don’t offer to research anything beyond that list. “If you don’t want to call those professionals, get a referral from your own doctor or google.”
I’m really glad my perspective resonated with you because I was super reticent to post. The views expressed are not necessarily common, the usual recommendation is to read the book, “Walking On Eggshells.” I mean, sure. But if you want to jump to the heart of your issue, I think where I evolved to on all of this is the natural place that folks who successfully navigate this type of family situation end up.
posted by jbenben at 11:08 PM on November 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
Or something like that. But a strong line that you can’t be involved unless they are actively getting her professional support and intervention.
Right now they are trying to make you solve their problem. Don’t be involved unless it is to provide them with phone numbers of healthcare professionals. Don’t even provide articles. Don’t be their support service professional. Don’t offer to research anything beyond that list. “If you don’t want to call those professionals, get a referral from your own doctor or google.”
I’m really glad my perspective resonated with you because I was super reticent to post. The views expressed are not necessarily common, the usual recommendation is to read the book, “Walking On Eggshells.” I mean, sure. But if you want to jump to the heart of your issue, I think where I evolved to on all of this is the natural place that folks who successfully navigate this type of family situation end up.
posted by jbenben at 11:08 PM on November 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Is there any way you can help them run errands to spend one on one time with them? Like, drive your mom or dad to the store?
I think if you want a stable detente, you need to find a way go stop arguing. Your parents do not want to hear the truth about you, your sister and both of your mental health. They‘re going to keep arguing until the cows come home because unlike your sister‘s state, your unwillingness to interact is something they feel they can fix. You‘ve always been the reasonable one, the one they could talk into doing things the way they want. You’ve become the easiest way to Fix All The Things. In a way, arguing with you has become a proxy for the actual problem in their life. They worry away and fixate at your unwillingness to play family, it becomes a symbol for everything that‘s wrong. If only aqamvidam weren‘t so ornery, everything would be ok! they think. It means they don‘t have to think about the really hard things, you know?
So at the moment you‘re playing an important part in the whole effed up family drama, The Bad One Upon Whom Everything Hinges. They‘ve slotted you into that role because they need to make sense of their story now that you are no longer The Easy One. You have changes the rules on them! Chaos and Confusion!
My advice would be to define a new role and get them used to it: The Disobedient But Reliable Offspring. They need get to a place where, regardless of what they do or say, they know you aren‘t going to hang out with sister/come home for thanksgiving/arrange therapy/whatever. They need to know that they can‘t browbeat you, guilt you or say anything to make you act differently. That means stop arguing, start acting. Decide on rules and as patiently as you can, act on them. Sister throws a fit? You excuse yourself and tell your parents, „welp, time for me to go, see you next time.“ Parents harp on about need for therapy? You nod and say, „well you know my opinion on this“ and change the topic (or leave the house if they won‘t stop!).
I know you‘re here to figure out what rules you can set, and I hope this thread will help you do that. I‘m just here to help you get into the mindset of you will never convince your parents that what you are doing is right. A better goal would be to comvince them it‘s no use arguing with you.
You know how in every family there are eccentric members who do odd, rude things and it‘s „just the way they are“? What if you became the person about whom your family says that?
The way there is to do your thing regardless of what the family says. The transition period until they accept the new you is rough (because change is rough, look how hard it is now!) but worth it.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:56 PM on November 5, 2018 [21 favorites]
I think if you want a stable detente, you need to find a way go stop arguing. Your parents do not want to hear the truth about you, your sister and both of your mental health. They‘re going to keep arguing until the cows come home because unlike your sister‘s state, your unwillingness to interact is something they feel they can fix. You‘ve always been the reasonable one, the one they could talk into doing things the way they want. You’ve become the easiest way to Fix All The Things. In a way, arguing with you has become a proxy for the actual problem in their life. They worry away and fixate at your unwillingness to play family, it becomes a symbol for everything that‘s wrong. If only aqamvidam weren‘t so ornery, everything would be ok! they think. It means they don‘t have to think about the really hard things, you know?
So at the moment you‘re playing an important part in the whole effed up family drama, The Bad One Upon Whom Everything Hinges. They‘ve slotted you into that role because they need to make sense of their story now that you are no longer The Easy One. You have changes the rules on them! Chaos and Confusion!
My advice would be to define a new role and get them used to it: The Disobedient But Reliable Offspring. They need get to a place where, regardless of what they do or say, they know you aren‘t going to hang out with sister/come home for thanksgiving/arrange therapy/whatever. They need to know that they can‘t browbeat you, guilt you or say anything to make you act differently. That means stop arguing, start acting. Decide on rules and as patiently as you can, act on them. Sister throws a fit? You excuse yourself and tell your parents, „welp, time for me to go, see you next time.“ Parents harp on about need for therapy? You nod and say, „well you know my opinion on this“ and change the topic (or leave the house if they won‘t stop!).
I know you‘re here to figure out what rules you can set, and I hope this thread will help you do that. I‘m just here to help you get into the mindset of you will never convince your parents that what you are doing is right. A better goal would be to comvince them it‘s no use arguing with you.
You know how in every family there are eccentric members who do odd, rude things and it‘s „just the way they are“? What if you became the person about whom your family says that?
The way there is to do your thing regardless of what the family says. The transition period until they accept the new you is rough (because change is rough, look how hard it is now!) but worth it.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:56 PM on November 5, 2018 [21 favorites]
Best answer: Can I reasonably say, "We can go out to lunch as long as [sister] doesn't come along"?
Yes. You can also formulate this as a boundary: "We can go out to lunch, but if [sister] shows up I will leave immediately" - and then, if she does, leave immediately without a word of apology or a backward glance.
They need to understand that you're quite serious about maintaining zero contact with your sister, and that they can plead and entreat all they want but you won't be changing your mind about it, that their only possible pathway toward the harmonious family they want involves doing whatever they can do to induce your sister to do whatever she needs to do in order to be able to behave like a reasonable adult, and that further attempts to draw you into any such process will simply be a waste of their time.
You need to understand that your sister is an adult, and therefore solely responsible for seeking whatever professional treatment she needs in order to maintain her own mental health. Being your sister's unpaid, untrained therapist and/or handy emotional punching bag is not on you.
Of course it's not on your parents either, but that's a matter for them. But given their consistent past pattern of enabling they're unlikely to do anything different, and you need to be prepared to live with that.
Your main task is accepting fully that your sister's current inability to maintain a tenable relationship with you is not of your making, not your fault, and not your job to fix.
posted by flabdablet at 1:14 AM on November 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yes. You can also formulate this as a boundary: "We can go out to lunch, but if [sister] shows up I will leave immediately" - and then, if she does, leave immediately without a word of apology or a backward glance.
They need to understand that you're quite serious about maintaining zero contact with your sister, and that they can plead and entreat all they want but you won't be changing your mind about it, that their only possible pathway toward the harmonious family they want involves doing whatever they can do to induce your sister to do whatever she needs to do in order to be able to behave like a reasonable adult, and that further attempts to draw you into any such process will simply be a waste of their time.
You need to understand that your sister is an adult, and therefore solely responsible for seeking whatever professional treatment she needs in order to maintain her own mental health. Being your sister's unpaid, untrained therapist and/or handy emotional punching bag is not on you.
Of course it's not on your parents either, but that's a matter for them. But given their consistent past pattern of enabling they're unlikely to do anything different, and you need to be prepared to live with that.
Your main task is accepting fully that your sister's current inability to maintain a tenable relationship with you is not of your making, not your fault, and not your job to fix.
posted by flabdablet at 1:14 AM on November 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
Best answer: What is acceptable? Can I reasonably say, "We can go out to lunch as long as [sister] doesn't come along"?
You certainly can, but be prepared they possibly will not choose to honor your request or even try to set you up.
I have a mentally ill brother, who is quite manipulative and will ask my elderly aunt to invite me to lunch together with him without telling me he will be there under the pretense of seeking reconciliation or whatever. She falls for it each time and does it despite me telling her that she should pleae not do this again. I walked out of restaurants as a result.
If my sister's going through a particularly mean/rageful phase, can I say, "I do not want to visit you for the next few weeks, but you can visit me"?
Yes. Again be prepared for remonstrations or that they will not visit you but rather give in to pressure from her to not honor your request. But it is a legit request from your side.
Can I demand that they not mention her in front of me?
As with all such things, you can. But I think this is setting yourself up for disappointment. Both my mother and my aunt know I prefer they do not mention my brother in front of me, tell me stories and how much he wants to meet me. After some years now, the tactic that works for me is to change the topic, repeatedly if necessary. Everythign else is useless with my relatives.
Is it acceptable to encourage them to suggest psychiatric help to my sister?
I would refrain. Unless they ask for your advice but not unsolicited. In my expererience this only opens more avenues for discussion of your sister and can only end hurtful to you.
I don't want to force my parents to choose between me and her, but I think that I may have to sometimes.
Unless you are prepared they choose her over you and can live with that I would not force the issue. In my experience parents will choose the unwell child obviously needing them over the apparently well child (regardless of whther you yourself see yourself as needing them).
I think rather work on establishing your own relationship with them, independent of your sister. Are there for example things one or both parents would enjoy doing with you, that your sister would not be interested in? I found things to do with my mother that my brother finds boring.
IN addtion this sticks out to me
She recently moved back in with our aging parents. Sadly, they have to bear the brunt of her outbursts. I see the toll this has taken on their happiness, their self-confidence, and their outlook on life. They do enable her in a lot of ways that I disagree with, but the bottom line is that they're loving, kind parents, and kicking their kid out of the house is not an option for them. If it helps to understand the situation, my parents are immigrants from South Asia, where family ties are paramount.
My brother, at the height of his mental problems moved back in with my (by then widowed) mother. He abused her emotionally, physically etc. She enabled his behaviour. All attempts at intervention from my side were interpreted by both (!!) as sibling rivalry. My mother literally preferred to be threatened by an axe to me interfering and removing him.
When I was at breaking point I finally involved the authorities without their knowledge or prior consent. They acted swifltly he is now in a care home under court wardship.
What I learned through those years was that I am no longer foremost a child, a daughter or sister. I am, foremost, my own person, with an independent life and my choices are mine to make. I could not live with knowing he might any moment bash her head in an episode of madness and go to prison for it. So I involded the authorities, not altruistically for their sake but mine, as I did not want her dead and him in prison.
posted by 15L06 at 2:16 AM on November 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
You certainly can, but be prepared they possibly will not choose to honor your request or even try to set you up.
I have a mentally ill brother, who is quite manipulative and will ask my elderly aunt to invite me to lunch together with him without telling me he will be there under the pretense of seeking reconciliation or whatever. She falls for it each time and does it despite me telling her that she should pleae not do this again. I walked out of restaurants as a result.
If my sister's going through a particularly mean/rageful phase, can I say, "I do not want to visit you for the next few weeks, but you can visit me"?
Yes. Again be prepared for remonstrations or that they will not visit you but rather give in to pressure from her to not honor your request. But it is a legit request from your side.
Can I demand that they not mention her in front of me?
As with all such things, you can. But I think this is setting yourself up for disappointment. Both my mother and my aunt know I prefer they do not mention my brother in front of me, tell me stories and how much he wants to meet me. After some years now, the tactic that works for me is to change the topic, repeatedly if necessary. Everythign else is useless with my relatives.
Is it acceptable to encourage them to suggest psychiatric help to my sister?
I would refrain. Unless they ask for your advice but not unsolicited. In my expererience this only opens more avenues for discussion of your sister and can only end hurtful to you.
I don't want to force my parents to choose between me and her, but I think that I may have to sometimes.
Unless you are prepared they choose her over you and can live with that I would not force the issue. In my experience parents will choose the unwell child obviously needing them over the apparently well child (regardless of whther you yourself see yourself as needing them).
I think rather work on establishing your own relationship with them, independent of your sister. Are there for example things one or both parents would enjoy doing with you, that your sister would not be interested in? I found things to do with my mother that my brother finds boring.
IN addtion this sticks out to me
She recently moved back in with our aging parents. Sadly, they have to bear the brunt of her outbursts. I see the toll this has taken on their happiness, their self-confidence, and their outlook on life. They do enable her in a lot of ways that I disagree with, but the bottom line is that they're loving, kind parents, and kicking their kid out of the house is not an option for them. If it helps to understand the situation, my parents are immigrants from South Asia, where family ties are paramount.
My brother, at the height of his mental problems moved back in with my (by then widowed) mother. He abused her emotionally, physically etc. She enabled his behaviour. All attempts at intervention from my side were interpreted by both (!!) as sibling rivalry. My mother literally preferred to be threatened by an axe to me interfering and removing him.
When I was at breaking point I finally involved the authorities without their knowledge or prior consent. They acted swifltly he is now in a care home under court wardship.
What I learned through those years was that I am no longer foremost a child, a daughter or sister. I am, foremost, my own person, with an independent life and my choices are mine to make. I could not live with knowing he might any moment bash her head in an episode of madness and go to prison for it. So I involded the authorities, not altruistically for their sake but mine, as I did not want her dead and him in prison.
posted by 15L06 at 2:16 AM on November 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
I don’t think an armchair diagnosis of your sister is particularly helpful in this case, except maybe inasmuch as it presents strategies to you for dealing with her. And only you— it also doesn’t seem helpful to try to get your parents (or your sister for that matter) to buy in as well; my guess is that they don’t view mental healthcare the same way that you do. And even then, it almost sounds like you're pathologizing or putting a DSM label on her personality, your relationship, and/or her non-MH-related life troubles.
All of your questions that start “Can I...?” Of course you can. You have a much better sense of whether they’ll be successful than anyone else. I would only reconsider the last; BPD is heavily stigmatized among medical and mental healthcare workers alike. Unless, of course, you have reason to believe your sister is a danger to herself or others, but a psychiatrist’s job isn’t to make it easier for you to be around her or for your parents to be able to cut her loose.
Maybe mentally take your sister out of the equation and start strategizing ways to improve your relationship with your parents given an abstract set of constraints. How can you see them more and enjoy your time together more given (a) restrictions on location, not their house; (b) restrictions on topic of conversation, not your sister; (c) their desire to control your relationships? (Of course, (c) cuts both ways.) Those are all pretty standard parent/adult child boundary-setting issues that can pop up. If you can take out the emotional element and plan solutions in the abstract, perhaps that could help?
posted by supercres at 4:03 AM on November 6, 2018
All of your questions that start “Can I...?” Of course you can. You have a much better sense of whether they’ll be successful than anyone else. I would only reconsider the last; BPD is heavily stigmatized among medical and mental healthcare workers alike. Unless, of course, you have reason to believe your sister is a danger to herself or others, but a psychiatrist’s job isn’t to make it easier for you to be around her or for your parents to be able to cut her loose.
Maybe mentally take your sister out of the equation and start strategizing ways to improve your relationship with your parents given an abstract set of constraints. How can you see them more and enjoy your time together more given (a) restrictions on location, not their house; (b) restrictions on topic of conversation, not your sister; (c) their desire to control your relationships? (Of course, (c) cuts both ways.) Those are all pretty standard parent/adult child boundary-setting issues that can pop up. If you can take out the emotional element and plan solutions in the abstract, perhaps that could help?
posted by supercres at 4:03 AM on November 6, 2018
Best answer: It's a given that it's the (adult) Problem Child who nearly always requires a great deal of support from their family members, especially their parents. Obviously, if they were stable and productive, they wouldn't need assistance. The more unstable and unproductive they are, the more assistance they need.
I've noticed that in families who have a family member (parent) needing some sort of care or support, it's very often the Problem Child who ends up filling that role. Since the stable and productive kids have lives, jobs, families of their own, they simply can't provide the degree of care necessary, and when the family can't afford to pay for care, the Problem Child ends up in that role. It kills two birds with one stone: gives the Problem Child a place to stay, and provides some level of care and supervision of the elderly parents.
The danger in that arrangement is that the Problem Child very often takes advantage of, or abuses, the parents. It can be very hard on the parents, especially when the Problem Child takes out his/her issues on the parents. Now they're desperately afraid of angering their child, who they depend upon. They'll do anything to placate them: give them money, give them their way, ask the other kids not to antagonize the Problem Child.
You're seeing this situation as mainly a problem for you, but I'm seeing it mainly as a problem for your parents. I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds like living with your sister is putting a lot of stress on them - more than you, since they're with her all the time.
Is there any possibility that you could work with them to help get your sister out of their house and back on her own? That would be a win-win for everyone.
I'd question your parents about what's going on, and maybe even talk to the neighbors, too. Watch for possible signs of elder abuse. A call to Social Services might even be in order.
posted by Lunaloon at 6:02 AM on November 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've noticed that in families who have a family member (parent) needing some sort of care or support, it's very often the Problem Child who ends up filling that role. Since the stable and productive kids have lives, jobs, families of their own, they simply can't provide the degree of care necessary, and when the family can't afford to pay for care, the Problem Child ends up in that role. It kills two birds with one stone: gives the Problem Child a place to stay, and provides some level of care and supervision of the elderly parents.
The danger in that arrangement is that the Problem Child very often takes advantage of, or abuses, the parents. It can be very hard on the parents, especially when the Problem Child takes out his/her issues on the parents. Now they're desperately afraid of angering their child, who they depend upon. They'll do anything to placate them: give them money, give them their way, ask the other kids not to antagonize the Problem Child.
You're seeing this situation as mainly a problem for you, but I'm seeing it mainly as a problem for your parents. I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds like living with your sister is putting a lot of stress on them - more than you, since they're with her all the time.
Is there any possibility that you could work with them to help get your sister out of their house and back on her own? That would be a win-win for everyone.
I'd question your parents about what's going on, and maybe even talk to the neighbors, too. Watch for possible signs of elder abuse. A call to Social Services might even be in order.
posted by Lunaloon at 6:02 AM on November 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This is so tough. I really feel for you.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that framing your sister's behavior as borderline, since it resonates with you, is indeed helpful. As the child of a borderline parent, I've learned that one of the most difficult problems in relationships with BPD folks is being gaslighted--not just by them, but by others in the family who don't support your view of what's happening. They don't mean to, but it happens.
"Undiagnosed borderline" is a phrase used often by family and friends because it's so difficult for a BPD person to realize they need help, and a proper diagnosis may never be forthcoming. It helps us figure out what's happening, why it's so confusing, and how we can navigate a difficult situation with someone we love.
If I'm reading you correctly, I feel that you're trying to set boundaries to protect your own health and well-being. This is good! I believe others here are correct when they say your parents are never going to get it. Your sister certainly won't. If you want to feel empowered here, you have to move forward without seeking validation from your parents or anyone else, with the exception of a therapist. It's difficult but surprisingly liberating when you start to see yourself as an empowered adult who has the right to self-care and good mental health.
I also agree with others that you cannot fix your sister and you can't fix your relationship. It's not your job and it's impossible unless she wants to get help herself. Your parents can't fix her either, but it's up to them to negotiate their own relationship with her.
My heart goes out to you. I have a lot of experience dealing with a BPD family member; please feel free to memail me if you'd like to.
I'm rooting for you.
posted by J. Tiberius at 9:51 AM on November 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that framing your sister's behavior as borderline, since it resonates with you, is indeed helpful. As the child of a borderline parent, I've learned that one of the most difficult problems in relationships with BPD folks is being gaslighted--not just by them, but by others in the family who don't support your view of what's happening. They don't mean to, but it happens.
"Undiagnosed borderline" is a phrase used often by family and friends because it's so difficult for a BPD person to realize they need help, and a proper diagnosis may never be forthcoming. It helps us figure out what's happening, why it's so confusing, and how we can navigate a difficult situation with someone we love.
If I'm reading you correctly, I feel that you're trying to set boundaries to protect your own health and well-being. This is good! I believe others here are correct when they say your parents are never going to get it. Your sister certainly won't. If you want to feel empowered here, you have to move forward without seeking validation from your parents or anyone else, with the exception of a therapist. It's difficult but surprisingly liberating when you start to see yourself as an empowered adult who has the right to self-care and good mental health.
I also agree with others that you cannot fix your sister and you can't fix your relationship. It's not your job and it's impossible unless she wants to get help herself. Your parents can't fix her either, but it's up to them to negotiate their own relationship with her.
My heart goes out to you. I have a lot of experience dealing with a BPD family member; please feel free to memail me if you'd like to.
I'm rooting for you.
posted by J. Tiberius at 9:51 AM on November 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Best answer: your sister is not destroying your relationship with your parents. your parents are. your sister has only got the responsibility for ruining the relationships she is personally a part of.
you talk about turning around your parents' suggestion that you intervene, telling them it's their responsibility, not yours. and when she was a child, it was their responsibility. but they already did their best to raise her well. they tried, and they weren't able to do it. if they knew how to help her, they would have, years ago.
My parents often ask me to try to "help my sister" - by reaching out to her and repairing her supposedly-broken self-esteem, making her feel that she has not been abandoned, convincing her to get therapy. I do not want to do any of this. Can I refuse to do this? Would it be wrong for me to turn this back onto my parents and recommend that they make these attempts?
since they sound open to therapy as a concept, at least for the family's identified patient, maybe they will be open to you suggesting therapy not to your sister -- who you don't have to talk to until you want to, if ever -- but to them, for themselves. for coping skills, ways to speak productively to both their children, feelings of helplessness and failure as parents that may be justified and that their children cannot be honest with them about either because they are too protective (you) or too vindictive (your sister, maybe.)
they can't force her to get better, but they can choose to help themselves. if your sister is old enough that she's not likely to mature out of her condition, they'll need it.
the nice thing is that if you fail to convince them they should go to therapy, they can't keep asking you to convince your sister. they just proved that it doesn't work and that your advice is ignored.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:11 AM on November 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
you talk about turning around your parents' suggestion that you intervene, telling them it's their responsibility, not yours. and when she was a child, it was their responsibility. but they already did their best to raise her well. they tried, and they weren't able to do it. if they knew how to help her, they would have, years ago.
My parents often ask me to try to "help my sister" - by reaching out to her and repairing her supposedly-broken self-esteem, making her feel that she has not been abandoned, convincing her to get therapy. I do not want to do any of this. Can I refuse to do this? Would it be wrong for me to turn this back onto my parents and recommend that they make these attempts?
since they sound open to therapy as a concept, at least for the family's identified patient, maybe they will be open to you suggesting therapy not to your sister -- who you don't have to talk to until you want to, if ever -- but to them, for themselves. for coping skills, ways to speak productively to both their children, feelings of helplessness and failure as parents that may be justified and that their children cannot be honest with them about either because they are too protective (you) or too vindictive (your sister, maybe.)
they can't force her to get better, but they can choose to help themselves. if your sister is old enough that she's not likely to mature out of her condition, they'll need it.
the nice thing is that if you fail to convince them they should go to therapy, they can't keep asking you to convince your sister. they just proved that it doesn't work and that your advice is ignored.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:11 AM on November 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
+1 for the recommendation of reading the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. There are online support groups and some are active and some have slowed down/closed.
posted by dlwr300 at 10:17 AM on November 6, 2018
posted by dlwr300 at 10:17 AM on November 6, 2018
Great book about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder, also useful for dealing with anyone who has poor boundaries, is manipulative, highly dramatic, etc. Stop Walking on Eggshells.
I have some experience of this. I have very strong boundaries with my sibling whose behavior is sometimes extreme, including threatening behaviors. But I have to stay with sibling for a family wedding, so I'm nervous. I'm driving, so I have an option to leave if I need it.
posted by theora55 at 11:54 AM on November 6, 2018
I have some experience of this. I have very strong boundaries with my sibling whose behavior is sometimes extreme, including threatening behaviors. But I have to stay with sibling for a family wedding, so I'm nervous. I'm driving, so I have an option to leave if I need it.
posted by theora55 at 11:54 AM on November 6, 2018
Response by poster: Thank you again everyone for your amazing replies. I cannot tell you how much they have helped me.
To Omnomnom, Lunaloon, and everyone else who explained that becoming The Bad Kid may be a necessary part of this whole process, wow, you opened my eyes!
Everyone, on some level, I understood that this was first and foremost about protecting myself, as well as setting boundaries, but it helped to hear it articulated so clearly.
Lenny Lemming, this both resonated with me and broke my heart:
"But I know--and I think the while family knows on some level--that family is really very broken and they're just in denial about how and why."
J. Tiberius, thank you for your direct words of support.
I have a lot to think about going forward, thank you everyone for giving me some clarity and validation and helping me understand what our family dynamics might look like. I feel a lot better and more ready to accept that
For the record:
- I have read Stop Walking on Eggshells, I Hate you, Don't Leave Me, and every other book on BPD available at the public library. I've read every AskMe post I could find. I've pored over countless online articles and forums.
- I am certain that this is BPD. I left out salient details that support that diagnosis because I wanted to focus on my question.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:18 PM on November 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
To Omnomnom, Lunaloon, and everyone else who explained that becoming The Bad Kid may be a necessary part of this whole process, wow, you opened my eyes!
Everyone, on some level, I understood that this was first and foremost about protecting myself, as well as setting boundaries, but it helped to hear it articulated so clearly.
Lenny Lemming, this both resonated with me and broke my heart:
"But I know--and I think the while family knows on some level--that family is really very broken and they're just in denial about how and why."
J. Tiberius, thank you for your direct words of support.
I have a lot to think about going forward, thank you everyone for giving me some clarity and validation and helping me understand what our family dynamics might look like. I feel a lot better and more ready to accept that
For the record:
- I have read Stop Walking on Eggshells, I Hate you, Don't Leave Me, and every other book on BPD available at the public library. I've read every AskMe post I could find. I've pored over countless online articles and forums.
- I am certain that this is BPD. I left out salient details that support that diagnosis because I wanted to focus on my question.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:18 PM on November 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Chiming in a data point, as the daughter of a Hindu immigrant (purchased by a white Canadian man).
I've had a similar relationship with my younger sister throughout my life -- literally, she used to pounce on me when I'd walk in the door after school so she could have a release of her rage.
Our parents also constantly ragged on me for not figuring out how to do their job and take over the parenting of sister (whose rage for me grew only more toxic whenever I tried to help).
My sister and I (in our 30s) have a difficult relationship now, in which sometimes we can acknowledge... how severely my parents would ignore her as a person. No one in a caregiver role in her life ever listened to her. No one in a caregiver role ever treated her like an actual person with dreams and wishes of her own (arguably, in a family where the over-privileged man has purchased the under-privileged woman for breeding purposes, no one is getting their own individualization needs met).
The only way for both me and my sister to be happy has been to individuate separately and with increasing distance from our family of origin.
If the communication patterns in your family unit are anything like mine, I suspect your sister is never actively listened to by the adults who conceived her, and this might have a lot to do with her outbursts of rage. Since you are not one of the people who was involved in conceiving her, this is not something you are empowered to fix.
I recommend: Work on yourself, role-model empowerment in your own life, and love your sister from a respectful distance. To this day, I can still say to my sister, "I understand why you were so angry" and "I understand why you had to handle mom and dad like that". Because her raging outbursts were about unacknowledged inequities in her reality... inequities that her parents force-molded her to try and accept, as a lesser-than human being.
I will also emphasize that South Asian parents are not the only people capable of parenting-to-produce-mental-illness here in North America. Best of luck!
posted by human ecologist at 9:26 AM on November 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've had a similar relationship with my younger sister throughout my life -- literally, she used to pounce on me when I'd walk in the door after school so she could have a release of her rage.
Our parents also constantly ragged on me for not figuring out how to do their job and take over the parenting of sister (whose rage for me grew only more toxic whenever I tried to help).
My sister and I (in our 30s) have a difficult relationship now, in which sometimes we can acknowledge... how severely my parents would ignore her as a person. No one in a caregiver role in her life ever listened to her. No one in a caregiver role ever treated her like an actual person with dreams and wishes of her own (arguably, in a family where the over-privileged man has purchased the under-privileged woman for breeding purposes, no one is getting their own individualization needs met).
The only way for both me and my sister to be happy has been to individuate separately and with increasing distance from our family of origin.
If the communication patterns in your family unit are anything like mine, I suspect your sister is never actively listened to by the adults who conceived her, and this might have a lot to do with her outbursts of rage. Since you are not one of the people who was involved in conceiving her, this is not something you are empowered to fix.
I recommend: Work on yourself, role-model empowerment in your own life, and love your sister from a respectful distance. To this day, I can still say to my sister, "I understand why you were so angry" and "I understand why you had to handle mom and dad like that". Because her raging outbursts were about unacknowledged inequities in her reality... inequities that her parents force-molded her to try and accept, as a lesser-than human being.
I will also emphasize that South Asian parents are not the only people capable of parenting-to-produce-mental-illness here in North America. Best of luck!
posted by human ecologist at 9:26 AM on November 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm sorry for threadsitting. I want to add one last point to address what human ecologist and others have touched on. My parents have always been loving and kind. Perhaps a bit overprotective and flawed as all parents can be, but they have never been horrible to us. My sister has never been the subject of any kind of abuse - I can say that for sure. Callous as it may sound, I am not interested in empathizing with my sister at this point. She is a grown adult in full possession of her faculties. I am primarily interested in my own self-protection and my relationship with my parents.
Once again, thank you everyone, I these responses have been nothing but incredibly helpful to me.
posted by aquamvidam at 6:27 PM on November 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Once again, thank you everyone, I these responses have been nothing but incredibly helpful to me.
posted by aquamvidam at 6:27 PM on November 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
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Yes you can invite your parents to go out to do something with you without inviting your sister as well. Yes you can tell your parents you don't want to visit them at their home and invite them to your home instead. Yes you can tell your parents that you don't want to talk about your sister (and if they persist you can tell them that you will have to cut short the conversation/visit). It's okay to set boundaries with other people to protect your own emotional well-being.
You can encourage your parents to suggest to your sister that she seek psychiatric help, but they may not be interested in doing this and she sounds even less likely to follow that advice. There's no sense in pushing too hard on this if it's going to damage your relationship with your parents.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 9:08 PM on November 5, 2018 [4 favorites]