Am I on the hook for the boat Grandpa bought?
October 29, 2018 5:46 PM Subscribe
In 18 months leading up to his sudden and rapid decline to death my father-in-law, on a fixed income bought a boat/truck and three bedroom house in a rural Town on South Puget Sound. We did our best to not let him be alone but we in no way had any input into his financial life.
It was a rough ride, and we as advocates felt like hospice too delayed a response, making the end of his life very traumatic.
Anyhow, he passed away intestate, with no will,no nothing. We consulted with an attorney who told us that this wasn't worth our time or energy and that there was a process in place it would begin for the creditors getting their assets back.
The other evening we were served with a summons,in relation to the credit union that must hold the note on the small boat he bought.
Partner re-consulted with attorney we had consulted previously, his attitude was generally "that sucks" and "I don't do litigation but can give you a recommendation of somebody that"
Anyhow I'm a preschool teacher and can't afford lawyer fees, I feel like this is something that is sort of a do-it-yourself and my husband and I should be able to handle a response to this.
Am I on the hook? I dont even understand how to look up what my rights are.
PS I need to be kind when discussing this in front of my sensitive nine and almost 11 year old daughters.
Anyhow, he passed away intestate, with no will,no nothing. We consulted with an attorney who told us that this wasn't worth our time or energy and that there was a process in place it would begin for the creditors getting their assets back.
The other evening we were served with a summons,in relation to the credit union that must hold the note on the small boat he bought.
Partner re-consulted with attorney we had consulted previously, his attitude was generally "that sucks" and "I don't do litigation but can give you a recommendation of somebody that"
Anyhow I'm a preschool teacher and can't afford lawyer fees, I feel like this is something that is sort of a do-it-yourself and my husband and I should be able to handle a response to this.
Am I on the hook? I dont even understand how to look up what my rights are.
PS I need to be kind when discussing this in front of my sensitive nine and almost 11 year old daughters.
Unsavory creditors will attempt to contact people about their parents or grandparents' debts.
You have zero duty to pay these debts. Your grandfather's estate will be liquidated to cover all debts. Creditors get paid before inheritors. If the estate can't cover the debt, you are under zero legal obligation to even respond.
If you feel you must respond, ask the creditor to provide documentation proving you are liable for the debt.
Unless your grandfather stole your identity and signed things in your name, or unless you cosigned on loans for him, you have no legal or moral obligation to do anything in this case.
posted by erst at 6:06 PM on October 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
You have zero duty to pay these debts. Your grandfather's estate will be liquidated to cover all debts. Creditors get paid before inheritors. If the estate can't cover the debt, you are under zero legal obligation to even respond.
If you feel you must respond, ask the creditor to provide documentation proving you are liable for the debt.
Unless your grandfather stole your identity and signed things in your name, or unless you cosigned on loans for him, you have no legal or moral obligation to do anything in this case.
posted by erst at 6:06 PM on October 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
The good news is that Washington state is not a Filial Responsibility state, so creditors cannot go after you on that basis.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 PM on October 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 PM on October 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
You may want to call Northwest Justice Project and see what they have to say.
posted by soelo at 6:10 PM on October 29, 2018
posted by soelo at 6:10 PM on October 29, 2018
If you are actually being sued, I would not ignore it. These creditors might be using confusing forms or letters to make you think you are being sued when you are not, so try to find out if you have a court date or a case number that the local courts recognize.
posted by soelo at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by soelo at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
Also, is your name also on any of his bank/savings/checking accounts? That could make you legally responsible in some way. IANAL, of course.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Are you sure it is a summons? A summons is an official court order that requires you to show up in court. Read the letter again. If they are just asking you to pay them money, I (a non-lawyer) would simply send them a letter saying that you are not the executor and that your FIL's estate is being handled by the XX court and they should contact the court if the estate owes them money. Then see what happens.
posted by metahawk at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by metahawk at 6:12 PM on October 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
One thing- I’m assuming that the credit union knows where the boat and truck is? If not, and you have the keys, you might drop them off in the parking lot of the credit union, and drop the keys off inside along with the title and a death certificate. The death certificate is a key part of making various kinds of problems go away- the gears often keep grinding as if the person is alive until they know that they aren’t.
posted by rockindata at 7:05 PM on October 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 7:05 PM on October 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yes. Get as many death certificate copies as possible. You'll need them for *everyone* when/if you're the ones closing down his estate. Not the testate part, but the practical things. People like the phone company need them to cancel things, if you're not the person named on the account (which you won't be, obviously).
Reply to any summons/bill/whatever with a copy of the death certificate and refer them to the court. I don't believe it is your responsibility to pay, but it will go easier with regards to the hassle if you notify people in this way.
Keep records of all the correspondence. And be prepared for maddening phone calls. Like the one I had when I had to ask my father-in-law's insurer to stop sending bills for life insurance premiums because a) he'd died, and b) they had already paid out on the claim for that. Many hours of "but we need to speak to the insured before we cancel the policy" conversations. This seems to be normal. It sucks, but being thorough is the only way through it.
posted by DangerIsMyMiddleName at 11:19 PM on October 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Reply to any summons/bill/whatever with a copy of the death certificate and refer them to the court. I don't believe it is your responsibility to pay, but it will go easier with regards to the hassle if you notify people in this way.
Keep records of all the correspondence. And be prepared for maddening phone calls. Like the one I had when I had to ask my father-in-law's insurer to stop sending bills for life insurance premiums because a) he'd died, and b) they had already paid out on the claim for that. Many hours of "but we need to speak to the insured before we cancel the policy" conversations. This seems to be normal. It sucks, but being thorough is the only way through it.
posted by DangerIsMyMiddleName at 11:19 PM on October 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
A complaint is a document that tells the court the creditor is asserting a claim. A summons is attached, and tells the recipient what he must do. The most important point is that it tells him he has ____ days to answer.
Who is named as the defendant? You or the "Estate of Grandpa"? If it is you, then you do need to answer. A response as simple as a handwritten "This was not my debt and is not my responsibility" would probably suffice. Since you say you had no input into his finances, I assume that means your name is not on any of his accounts.
If it is the Estate, then you can ignore it, since there is no estate, unless you want to advise the lawyer filing the lawsuit that there is no estate. As others have noted, creditors can open an estate themselves if they need to. If they do, they have to notify family members.
The other responses above are sound. If he had assets justifying the opening of an estate, it and only it has the obligation to pay the debts he incurred. If not, the creditors lose out. They can foreclose on any security interest they have, and that process will work itself out without involving his family, unless you want to follow rockindata's suggestion to help the process along.
All of the above is general only and is roughly accurate in most jurisdictions; I do not know Washington law.
posted by megatherium at 1:02 AM on October 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Who is named as the defendant? You or the "Estate of Grandpa"? If it is you, then you do need to answer. A response as simple as a handwritten "This was not my debt and is not my responsibility" would probably suffice. Since you say you had no input into his finances, I assume that means your name is not on any of his accounts.
If it is the Estate, then you can ignore it, since there is no estate, unless you want to advise the lawyer filing the lawsuit that there is no estate. As others have noted, creditors can open an estate themselves if they need to. If they do, they have to notify family members.
The other responses above are sound. If he had assets justifying the opening of an estate, it and only it has the obligation to pay the debts he incurred. If not, the creditors lose out. They can foreclose on any security interest they have, and that process will work itself out without involving his family, unless you want to follow rockindata's suggestion to help the process along.
All of the above is general only and is roughly accurate in most jurisdictions; I do not know Washington law.
posted by megatherium at 1:02 AM on October 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
My thought is they were reaching out legally to you as his next of kin to say, by the way, the credit union comes first. Help them collect their stuff as best you can by providing keys and addresses to authorized agents as well as a copy of the death certificate. Collections has a process for people who die before their debt is paid off. Just don’t get personally sucked in. It’s not your debt/problem.
posted by childofTethys at 7:28 AM on October 30, 2018
posted by childofTethys at 7:28 AM on October 30, 2018
If you want to post a (personal details redacted) image of what they sent you, we can probably tell you if it is an actual summons or something else.
posted by praemunire at 7:43 AM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:43 AM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
Seconding megatherium and praemunire.
If applicable, Pierce County has its records online (check under both civil and probate). At a glance other counties along the sound's southern coast appear not to.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:29 AM on October 30, 2018
If applicable, Pierce County has its records online (check under both civil and probate). At a glance other counties along the sound's southern coast appear not to.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:29 AM on October 30, 2018
If not, and you have the keys, you might drop them off in the parking lot of the credit union, and drop the keys off inside along with the title and a death certificate.
Why move the truck and boat? You'd be one car accident away from a big mess. They're the credit union's now, so they can pick them up.
posted by zamboni at 10:39 AM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
Why move the truck and boat? You'd be one car accident away from a big mess. They're the credit union's now, so they can pick them up.
posted by zamboni at 10:39 AM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
If you did in fact receive a summons and complaint, I'd start by contacting the relevant court and speaking with a clerk. They can't give legal advice but should be able to give you general info about how to answer the summons. You can also ask them to direct you to any resources for self-represented ("pro se") litigants.
posted by messica at 12:44 PM on October 30, 2018
posted by messica at 12:44 PM on October 30, 2018
« Older Expected speeds of upload to Gdrive | To rent or to buy and sell - short term car needs Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Unless you co-signed on the loans for the truck, boat, and house, they're not your concern. The creditors have the first right to them, as they are the lienholders. They will sell them, and if the sale doesn't pay off the loan, they have the right to be made whole from his estate; if he owns other assets - including bank accounts - they have the first right to any of those before you and his other heirs do. Whoever executes his estate has an obligation to communicate with his creditors and to ensure they get paid.
If his liabilities outweigh his debts, the debts die with him and the creditors are screwed. They may try to suggest that you 'make things right' or that paying his debts is 'what he would have wanted'. You can ignore them, they have no legal claim to any of your assets.
If you did co-sign, then yes, you are on the hook for the entire balance of the loans.
posted by Hatashran at 5:58 PM on October 29, 2018 [32 favorites]