The truth about power-cycling routers & modems
October 5, 2018 2:05 PM Subscribe
I'm dealing with frequent cable internet outages at home. The tech support guides me through a five-step procedure which seems like superstitious ritual. Why can't I just plug my cable modem and wifi router into a power strip?
Tech support says I must:
1. unplug the wifi router from electrical supply (mains)
2. unplug the cable modem
3. wait for five minutes
4. replug the cable modem
5. replug the wifi router
in that order.
Would this sequence
1. Turn off the power strip
2. Wait for five minutes
3. Turn on the power strip
be "electronically equivalent" to the five-step routine tech support advises? If it isn't, is there an alternative that doesn't require so much crawling, reaching, and hand-eye coordination?
Tech support says I must:
1. unplug the wifi router from electrical supply (mains)
2. unplug the cable modem
3. wait for five minutes
4. replug the cable modem
5. replug the wifi router
in that order.
Would this sequence
1. Turn off the power strip
2. Wait for five minutes
3. Turn on the power strip
be "electronically equivalent" to the five-step routine tech support advises? If it isn't, is there an alternative that doesn't require so much crawling, reaching, and hand-eye coordination?
This kept happening to me and I eventually found a frayed cable that was only intermittently transmitting the signal. (Thank you ex-roommates house rabbit. Sigh.)
But yeah, what Huffy Puffy said.
posted by ananci at 2:16 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
But yeah, what Huffy Puffy said.
posted by ananci at 2:16 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I would suggest this minor modification to your plan - leave them connected to the same power strip but while everything is powered off, disconnect the ethernet cable that goes from the modem to the router, at either end. Wait until all lights on both devices are happy green, then plug the ethernet cable back in. In my experience, if there are connectivity problems that can be solved by a power cycle, trying to power up the modem while the wifi router is connected can continue to cause errors.
Obviously power-cycling every time there is an outage is not a long-term solution to outages. Is it a wifi outage or do devices plugged directly into the modem also lose connectivity? Has the modem been replaced?
posted by muddgirl at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2018
Obviously power-cycling every time there is an outage is not a long-term solution to outages. Is it a wifi outage or do devices plugged directly into the modem also lose connectivity? Has the modem been replaced?
posted by muddgirl at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2018
Best answer: Power strip for me, too.
But I haven't had to reset or power cycle even once since I finally forced Comcast to come out to my apartment and actually troubleshoot, and they discovered that one of the coax connectors out on the side of my building was full of water. Things worked a lot better when my internet signal didn't have to swim to get to me.
posted by phunniemee at 2:23 PM on October 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
But I haven't had to reset or power cycle even once since I finally forced Comcast to come out to my apartment and actually troubleshoot, and they discovered that one of the coax connectors out on the side of my building was full of water. Things worked a lot better when my internet signal didn't have to swim to get to me.
posted by phunniemee at 2:23 PM on October 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: The benefit of the modem being connected before the router is turned on is that the router can immediately reach the Internet, since some devices give up trying to connect if they don't see a connection right away. In general, though, routers can handle this and will keep trying until the connection comes online. Try it and see - you won't do any harm giving it a shot, and chances are very good it will work fine.
Also, waiting 5 minutes is unnecessary. I suspect the main reason for the 5 minute delay is that it's just long enough that you won't keep the tech support rep on the phone. I would try waiting 5 or 10 seconds.
posted by pocams at 2:28 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, waiting 5 minutes is unnecessary. I suspect the main reason for the 5 minute delay is that it's just long enough that you won't keep the tech support rep on the phone. I would try waiting 5 or 10 seconds.
posted by pocams at 2:28 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm so lazy, I once considered hooking my modem to the Clapper. Barring that, your idea makes sense to me.
posted by 4ster at 2:38 PM on October 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by 4ster at 2:38 PM on October 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
pocams has it --- there is at least a logic to turning on the modem first. The simplest way to think about it is that your cable modem does not depend on your wifi router, but your wifi router does have a dependency on your cable modem.
That said, a good router will just keep trying and eventually work fine.
So you can certainly try just power-cycling everything from a single power strip. If that doesn't work, then you might want to try the modem-then-router procedure.
A power strip is equivalent to unplugging. 5-10 seconds is enough, 5 minutes is almost certainly unnecessary (I mean, I could engineer a solution where something on their end needs 5 minutes to reset, but it is extremely unlikely).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2018
That said, a good router will just keep trying and eventually work fine.
So you can certainly try just power-cycling everything from a single power strip. If that doesn't work, then you might want to try the modem-then-router procedure.
A power strip is equivalent to unplugging. 5-10 seconds is enough, 5 minutes is almost certainly unnecessary (I mean, I could engineer a solution where something on their end needs 5 minutes to reset, but it is extremely unlikely).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2018
Also, waiting 5 minutes is unnecessary.
Not always. There could be stuff on the provider's end that does a full reset after a loss of connection of more than umpteen seconds, and just a bit of twiddling to get the connection back for shorter blips. Five minutes will probably be well over that umpteen seconds limit, so that even with impatient customers the tech is sure that your connection goes through that full reset, testing line conditions and such when it comes back up.
You could test if it makes a difference in connection speed afterwards, as well as time until the next occurrence
posted by Stoneshop at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2018
Not always. There could be stuff on the provider's end that does a full reset after a loss of connection of more than umpteen seconds, and just a bit of twiddling to get the connection back for shorter blips. Five minutes will probably be well over that umpteen seconds limit, so that even with impatient customers the tech is sure that your connection goes through that full reset, testing line conditions and such when it comes back up.
You could test if it makes a difference in connection speed afterwards, as well as time until the next occurrence
posted by Stoneshop at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2018
Best answer: i usually just lie to tech support about resetting the router, and 9 times outta 10 it doesn't make a difference. evidence: i always chat with tech support online. while online, i tell them i'm about to unplug the router -- which would turn the internet off, thus terminating the conversation -- and then i write to them "i've turned off the internet, what do i do now? they always reply "oh just wait" and we proceed as normal. since there's nothing in the tech support script about contacting a client while their internet is off, i'm willing to bet that it doesn't matter.
since i work on computers, i can provide some technical details for the interested:
power cycling (turning it off and then on again) -- usually solves software problems. this is mostly because it forces the computer to start from scratch. things like buffers and caches get cleared out on a restart, and sometimes that makes a difference. but, if there's a hardware problem, it won't change anything.
as for keeping the router off for some amount of time, the only guess i have is to allow it to cool down -- but honestly, if the router is overheating, 15-30 seconds will do the same thing. and the router will behave the same way once it gets too hot again. from there, the only true solution is to get a new router... (because it's a hardware problem).
on preview, Stoneshop brings up the point that there could be things happening on the network -- in my experience, most software is built to be resilient to networks doing weird things. which is to say, the router doesn't need to be off whilst the network resets, and pretty much any decent router will "watch idly" (AKA be fine) while the network comes back up. Which is to say, yes, it is a superstitious practice.
posted by =d.b= at 3:34 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
since i work on computers, i can provide some technical details for the interested:
power cycling (turning it off and then on again) -- usually solves software problems. this is mostly because it forces the computer to start from scratch. things like buffers and caches get cleared out on a restart, and sometimes that makes a difference. but, if there's a hardware problem, it won't change anything.
as for keeping the router off for some amount of time, the only guess i have is to allow it to cool down -- but honestly, if the router is overheating, 15-30 seconds will do the same thing. and the router will behave the same way once it gets too hot again. from there, the only true solution is to get a new router... (because it's a hardware problem).
on preview, Stoneshop brings up the point that there could be things happening on the network -- in my experience, most software is built to be resilient to networks doing weird things. which is to say, the router doesn't need to be off whilst the network resets, and pretty much any decent router will "watch idly" (AKA be fine) while the network comes back up. Which is to say, yes, it is a superstitious practice.
posted by =d.b= at 3:34 PM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
The cable modem can take quite a long time to get an internet connection. It's the only slow part. I'd unplug the modem, plug it in, wait 5 minutes (or until all the modem connection lights come back on), unplug the router, plug it back in. Within a few seconds (after the router boots and gets DHCP), everything should be working.
posted by w0mbat at 4:44 PM on October 5, 2018
posted by w0mbat at 4:44 PM on October 5, 2018
as for keeping the router off for some amount of time, the only guess i have is to allow it to cool down -- but honestly, if the router is overheating, 15-30 seconds will do the same thing. and the router will behave the same way once it gets too hot again. from there, the only true solution is to get a new router... (because it's a hardware problem).The only other potential thing here is to let any capacitors that are inside of the hardware discharge sufficiently to clear the internal memory, but as you say, 15-30 seconds is almost certainly enough for that.
The only piece of hardware where this is evidenced in my house to any degree is my vacuum sealer, which is... not a router, nor anywhere close to it.
posted by kdar at 4:54 PM on October 5, 2018
I used to have frequent internet outages and found that just rebooting the cable modem via its web interface worked as well as unplugging it and waiting. Ultimately a tech on site determined that the line into the house wasn’t carrying a reliable signal though, and they had to lay new cable.
posted by rodlymight at 7:03 PM on October 5, 2018
posted by rodlymight at 7:03 PM on October 5, 2018
I mean, I could engineer a solution where something on their end needs 5 minutes to reset, but it is extremely unlikely
Uh, in the old days of the early 2000s that was exactly what the five minute wait was all about. I would suspect at this point that's just a dance that got baked into the tech support routine, cargo cult style. But back when the best internet you could get at home was DSL, the DSLAM often had a reset cycle that only happened after the client device had been completely offline for a period of time. Five minutes was a good estimation, if not the actual hard coded reset period.
But anyway, as other people have said, at this point you probably don't really need to wait for all the lights to be in order on your modem before you turn your router on, and the power strip should be fine.
posted by fedward at 7:37 PM on October 5, 2018
Uh, in the old days of the early 2000s that was exactly what the five minute wait was all about. I would suspect at this point that's just a dance that got baked into the tech support routine, cargo cult style. But back when the best internet you could get at home was DSL, the DSLAM often had a reset cycle that only happened after the client device had been completely offline for a period of time. Five minutes was a good estimation, if not the actual hard coded reset period.
But anyway, as other people have said, at this point you probably don't really need to wait for all the lights to be in order on your modem before you turn your router on, and the power strip should be fine.
posted by fedward at 7:37 PM on October 5, 2018
We have a couple smart switches set up on ours because hauling my ass up a ladder in our garage is a pain (but it’s the only place our router and modem can really live). We went through a period where work on our neighborhood lines was causing repeated need for reset and it was becoming a huge hassle
Just a couple of these and I can cycle them from anywhere in the house (or anywhere, really) from my phone.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:49 PM on October 5, 2018
Just a couple of these and I can cycle them from anywhere in the house (or anywhere, really) from my phone.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:49 PM on October 5, 2018
Another potential reason for the 5 minute wait is to let your DHCP lease expire, forcing your provider to assign a fresh IP address. This way the support infrastructure will update their routing tables, providing you with an entirely new configuration.
Or not.
posted by jeporter99 at 9:20 AM on October 6, 2018
Or not.
posted by jeporter99 at 9:20 AM on October 6, 2018
Response by poster: Thanks all for your speedy & helpful replies!
On the plus side, our neighborhood has hundreds of mature 30 ft trees and the utility wires run between the lots, not cluttering the street with poles.
On the minus side, we lose power/net/(landline) with every thunderstorm.
@phunniemee: I want you to play in my next tech support call.
posted by Jesse the K at 10:24 AM on October 6, 2018
On the plus side, our neighborhood has hundreds of mature 30 ft trees and the utility wires run between the lots, not cluttering the street with poles.
On the minus side, we lose power/net/(landline) with every thunderstorm.
@phunniemee: I want you to play in my next tech support call.
posted by Jesse the K at 10:24 AM on October 6, 2018
I bought a $5 mechanical/clockwork outlet timer, and use that to turn off the power strip for 15 minutes at 03:00. This solved most of our internet suckness.
posted by monotreme at 10:56 AM on October 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by monotreme at 10:56 AM on October 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I bought a $5 mechanical/clockwork outlet timer, and use that to turn off the power strip for 15 minutes at 03:00. This solved most of our internet suckness.
That is an extremely hackerish solution in the old (and correct!) sense of the word. Very elegant.
Plus whatever I have in the bank on the cargo-cult nature of tech support scripts. I am definitely guilty of just lying when they give me some nutty instruction. After all, they're usually lying when they say "no one else has ever reported that problem."
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 3:31 PM on October 7, 2018
That is an extremely hackerish solution in the old (and correct!) sense of the word. Very elegant.
Plus whatever I have in the bank on the cargo-cult nature of tech support scripts. I am definitely guilty of just lying when they give me some nutty instruction. After all, they're usually lying when they say "no one else has ever reported that problem."
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 3:31 PM on October 7, 2018
Best answer: Too late.
power off everything.
power on cable modem.
wait for cable modem to be done.
power to router.
wait for router to be done.
It is far simpler to diagnose logfiles of the modem without dealing with external influences. Then the remote side can check the function of the modem in isolation.
Then the router. Depending..... is also better logwise in connecting to something that is already known to work vs looking at logs of it trying to connect to something that doesn't work.
5 minutes is way too long, more like 30-60 seconds for capacitance to fully discharge. That time is for their software to do the eventual consistency thing and for information (new) to propagate. (I had a wait 15 minutes for stuff to sync due to reasons).
So yes when I have to reboot my stuff, I unplug them all, bring up the modem, watch the lights... then on with the router, watch the lights.
Does it really matter.... probably not. It's actual ease of use and remote diagnosis. Bring the modem up, let it do it's testing, maybe do loopback that would make your network flakey if you turned your router on (it'd go up and down and up and down while doing line testing). Separate points of failure.
Even without help... If I unplug modem and router at once. Then wait like 30s. Then the modem gets power and watch the lights and see if it is up and looks all good. Then power up the router and let it talk to something that is fully functional.
5 minutes is their software. Modem first before router has it's point. Turning them both on at once will probably be fine.... but somebody trying to fix your thing would not do that. To many variables.
posted by zengargoyle at 9:48 PM on October 7, 2018
power off everything.
power on cable modem.
wait for cable modem to be done.
power to router.
wait for router to be done.
It is far simpler to diagnose logfiles of the modem without dealing with external influences. Then the remote side can check the function of the modem in isolation.
Then the router. Depending..... is also better logwise in connecting to something that is already known to work vs looking at logs of it trying to connect to something that doesn't work.
5 minutes is way too long, more like 30-60 seconds for capacitance to fully discharge. That time is for their software to do the eventual consistency thing and for information (new) to propagate. (I had a wait 15 minutes for stuff to sync due to reasons).
So yes when I have to reboot my stuff, I unplug them all, bring up the modem, watch the lights... then on with the router, watch the lights.
Does it really matter.... probably not. It's actual ease of use and remote diagnosis. Bring the modem up, let it do it's testing, maybe do loopback that would make your network flakey if you turned your router on (it'd go up and down and up and down while doing line testing). Separate points of failure.
Even without help... If I unplug modem and router at once. Then wait like 30s. Then the modem gets power and watch the lights and see if it is up and looks all good. Then power up the router and let it talk to something that is fully functional.
5 minutes is their software. Modem first before router has it's point. Turning them both on at once will probably be fine.... but somebody trying to fix your thing would not do that. To many variables.
posted by zengargoyle at 9:48 PM on October 7, 2018
Response by poster: Thanks for the details, zengargoyle.
An hour ago I witnessed the very nice Spectrum technician do exactly that, and now I understand why!
posted by Jesse the K at 3:15 PM on October 17, 2018
An hour ago I witnessed the very nice Spectrum technician do exactly that, and now I understand why!
posted by Jesse the K at 3:15 PM on October 17, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
I assume the unplugging thing is because there’s no power button. And there may be some benefit to powering up one before the other, so the router sees an active internet connection when it boots up. But the power strip works for me.
If you really need to boot them in order, you could use two power strips.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:12 PM on October 5, 2018 [1 favorite]