What would happen to Dick?

February 15, 2006 6:14 AM

What would happen to Vice President Cheney if Harry Whittington were to die? What are the different possibilities?
posted by dead_ to law & government (23 answers total)

Since the authorities in Texas have already judged the shooting to be accidental, I suppose nothing will happen.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:21 AM on February 15, 2006

It does matter if he dies, since Texas has an offense of criminally negligent homicide (but not criminally negligent assault). So if he dies the authorities will have to decide whether Cheney was criminally negligent, which is possible despite the shooting being accidental.

Texas Penal Code § 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.
(a) A person commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by criminal negligence.
(b) An offense under this section is a state jail felony.

§ 6.03(d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

There's still a lot of debate over whether Cheney grossly deviated from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise.
posted by grouse at 6:29 AM on February 15, 2006

/Derail
"...Substantial and unjustifiable risk.."
Oh, like sending soldiers to a die in a war based on lies?
/Derail off

But seriously an ordinary person would likely be charged by any but the most laid-back prosecutors. Conviction would depend on many factors, especially how good a lawyer the defendant had.
Cheney, for all practical considerations, has nothing to worry about. The sitting Republican VP is not going to face charges in the state run by the President's Republican brother as long as there is ANY wiggle room in statute to justify declining prosecution.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 6:42 AM on February 15, 2006

I doubt much of anything would happen on the legal side. As Thorzdad said, the shooting has already been declared accidental. The Smoking Gun has the incident report from Texas Parks & Wildlife and it seems to be a very typical hunting accident.

The political fallout would be much worse given the secrecy the veep's office continues to have about the entire situation.
posted by Ateo Fiel at 6:46 AM on February 15, 2006

FWIW, Aaron Burr was charged with murder after killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel (dueling was illegal), but the case never went to trial.

The sitting Republican VP is not going to face charges in the state run by the President's Republican brother

That's no surprise, seeing as people usually aren't charged in Florida for shootings that happen in Texas.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:51 AM on February 15, 2006

There is speculation that Cheney may have been drunk at the time of the shooting but the Secret Service refused to allow the sheriff's department to interview the Vice President immediately following the accident.

What consequences would come out of these actions? Of course I assume nothing is going to come out of all of this but the political fallout is going to be huge.
posted by brokekid at 7:01 AM on February 15, 2006

No prosecutor is going to even suggest that they so much as look into bringing charges. That would be tantamount to hanging a sign around their neck declaring they no longer wish to be able to hold any sort of steady job anywhere in the United States.
And don't even think for a moment Whittington's family would press charges. Faithful Followers just don't do that sort of thing.

After Whittington gets out, watch for the inevitable press photo of Whittington holding up a small bottle containing some of the birdshot doctors scraped from his wounds, and everyone in the room having a good chuckle about it. Good Ol' Boys, y'know.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:02 AM on February 15, 2006

There are many more illegal things that he hasn't gotten in trouble for, so I doubt that anything will happen with this.
posted by _zed_ at 7:06 AM on February 15, 2006

an ordinary person would likely be charged by any but the most laid-back prosecutors

Vigorously investigated, yes, charged, not so likely in the case of an accidental shooting, even for ordinary people, unless of course alcohol was involved, in which case even the Veep is vulnerable.
posted by caddis at 7:15 AM on February 15, 2006

DevilsAdvocate, obviously you are absolutely right - I dunno what I was thinking, getting today mixed up with the mid-90s re Bush governorships. That's what I get for posting before tea.

But Ol' Dick still has nothing to worry about.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 7:16 AM on February 15, 2006

From what I've heard, there will almost certainly be some sort of investigation, whether it is a coroner's inquest, or something else, if Whittington dies.

Also, I think you'll see some major political fire storms if the local authorities do try to sweep this under the rug. This isn't something that can be treated specially because it falls under Mr. Cheney's duties as Vice President of the United States. This is the sort of thing that could happen to any schmoe walking the street who can bag a gun permit.

Forgive my ranting, but somehow the notion that, because of the office he holds, Mr. Cheney should not be held to the same legal standards that Joe or Jane Citizen would be held to seems to undercut a lot of the principles embodied in the Constitution that he has sworn to protect and uphold.
posted by hwestiii at 7:25 AM on February 15, 2006

Fellow Hunter Shot by Cheney Suffers Setback, New York Times [subscription required], February 15, 2006:

In Texas, Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would immediately spur a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation. . .

Local officials have not considered any charges in the shooting because no one in the hunting party, including the victim, has accused Mr. Cheney of wrongdoing.

"Everybody that I've heard so far has said it was an accident," said Mr. Valdez, who holds an elected position and is a Democrat. "The victim probably told the sheriff's department it was an accident."

Mr. Valdez added, "Now, if the worst happens and the man happens to die, we would take an additional step."

Under the law, even an accidental hunting fatality can result in criminal charges. Mr. Cheney could be charged with negligence, defined as failing to understand the dangers involved and disregarding them, or recklessness, defined as understanding the dangers and disregarding them.
posted by mlis at 7:34 AM on February 15, 2006

He'd have to be drunk or there would have to be some other evidence of foul play or negligence that would need to be proven without witnesses. There would also need to be a prosecuter who wants to get on the national stage. Considering that everyone involved were the last people to rat out Cheney, and that it happened in Texas, the perfect storm is very unlikely to happen unless some amazing investigative work was done. Even if he was drunk, without anyone there admitting it, there's no way to prove it happened.

Why they didn't put the blame on the ranch owner and totally left Cheney out is something I think they contemplated doing but didn't for reasons unknown now.
posted by geoff. at 7:43 AM on February 15, 2006

but the political fallout is going to be huge

not if Whittington stays alive. if he recovers, one week from now the story will be "sadistic slimy Democrats trying to make political hay out of a hunting accident". it's not like he shot Cindy Sheehan, he shot a buddy who will be certainly compensated for his discretion. as soon as out of the ICU he'll show up on Tv saying that it was an accident and the VP is s a very sweet man, end of story.

and as pointed out above, the SS prevented the local authorities from questioning Cheney -- State's rights indeed.
posted by matteo at 7:46 AM on February 15, 2006

I thought causing death accidentally was manslaughter. No?
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:52 AM on February 15, 2006

Depends on the specific circumstances, YSSTOG. Manslaughter's one thing (and IANAL), but criminal negligence is something other. I'd guess that criminally negligent homicide is a type of manslaughter, but is different in the details.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:57 AM on February 15, 2006

Manslaughter involves recklessness, which is more severe than criminal negligence. The details are in the links I posted above.
posted by grouse at 8:24 AM on February 15, 2006

Cheney, for all practical considerations, has nothing to worry about. The sitting Republican VP is not going to face charges in the state run by the President's Republican brother as long as there is ANY wiggle room in statute to justify declining prosecution.

Jeb bush is the governor of Florida, not Texas. But yeah, Cheney doesn't have much to worry about in Texas either, I would imagine.

That would be tantamount to hanging a sign around their neck declaring they no longer wish to be able to hold any sort of steady job anywhere in the United States.

If you're any good, you'll be able to get work as a private practice Defense Attorney. The people choosing to hire you would be Criminals, and probably not too worried about your political positions.
posted by delmoi at 8:47 AM on February 15, 2006

I got your best answer right here:

Mr. Cheney... seems to undercut a lot of the principles embodied in the Constitution that he has sworn to protect and uphold.

Assuming Cheney would or will face any legal penalty for anything from littering to first-degree murder assumes anyone in this Administration is accountable to the law—and the past five years have determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are not.

So: nothing.
posted by S.C. at 8:54 AM on February 15, 2006

Dallas defense attorney David Finn, who has been a state and a federal prosecutor, said Wednesday that a Texas grand jury could bring a charge of criminally negligent homicide if there is evidence the vice president knew or should have known "there was a substantial or unjustifiable risk that his actions would result in him shooting a fellow hunter."

"The risk must be of such a nature and degree that it got to be pretty outrageous -- that a reasonable person would have to say, `I am not pulling the trigger because this other guy might be in front of me,'" Finn said.

The charge carries up to two years behind bars, but with no previous felonies Cheney would be eligible for probation, the former prosecutor said.

Mark Skurka, first assistant district attorney of the three-county area where the shooting took place, said prosecutors did not have an investigation under way.

"If something unfortunate happens, then we'll decide what to do, then we'll decide whether we're going to have an investigation or not," Skurka said.

from here (and yeah, I know, AM NY, but I'm sure the article can be found elsewhere, and I'm a college student, I can't afford to buy the Times)
posted by anjamu at 12:48 PM on February 15, 2006

If the theme of this question were anything but, "Could this ACCIDENT somehow turn out terribly for this or any other Republican?" this question would've been mercilessly run off the rails.
posted by raider at 5:27 PM on February 15, 2006

>dead_ to law & government:
>What would happen to Vice President
>Cheney if Harry Whittington were to die?

Same thing that's happened to him already.
He'll say "I'm sorry" and go about business
from his usual undisclosed location.

> You Should See the Other Guy:
>I thought causing death accidentally
>was manslaughter. No?

For you & me, yes. For him, no.
posted by Ken McE at 5:47 PM on February 15, 2006

No, causing death accidentally is not the same as manslaughter. Manslaughter is the type of causing death accidentally where you were reckless -- acting in such a way that you knew was likely to cause death or severe injury -- but without the intent to kill someone.

Some states distinguish between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Beating a man up who later dies is the former; hitting him with a brick you threw blindly is the latter. Voluntary manslaughter is also sometimes classed with second-degree murder.

Vehicular homicide, typically applying largely to drunk-driving deaths, is generally not considered manslaughter, but negligent homicide. It is not necessary with negligent homicide to prove that someone was aware their actions could kill or injure, only that they did not observe safety precautions when doing something potentially dangerous such as operating a motor vehicle.

Depending on the circumstances, hunting accidents could be charged as voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, or negligent homicide.

I think the calculus based on Texas politics is off base. There certainly are plenty of Democrats in Texas -- a lot of them happen to have Hispanic names. The Sheriff of Kenedy County is Hispanic, for example, and it's a good bet that he was one of the Kerry voters in that county -- but notice that there's no DA for Kenedy. It's practically a wholly owned company town for a handful of massive ranches still owned by the descendants of 19th-century settlers, and the few non-family residents are longstanding ranch-hand families associated with individual ranches (and probably heavily inter-related). That's a big reason why the Sheriff was so tentative about coming by to ask about the ambulance. His political future in Kenedy could still be in severe jeopardy. The DA in the next county over, though, who has jurisdiction over Kenedy but is beholden to another county's voters, may not be so rollable, and in any case a grand jury could certainly act to indict without the DA under Texas law. I don't think it's likely in this case, though, as the evidence is too fuzzy; it would be difficult to prove recklessness. Even a finding that Cheney was drunk would lean more toward negligence than recklessness.

All that said I think the case for charges is weak. I don't think if Whittington dies that being a Republican Pioneer or whatever means your family won't initiate a wrongful death lawsuit, which is where I think this wouild much more likely end up. They'd face enormous pressure, of course, but whether they'd pursue it against an unpopular VP is an open question.
posted by dhartung at 1:13 AM on February 16, 2006