Was this bad management?
September 20, 2018 3:13 PM Subscribe
A sour experience has led me to have second-thoughts about an "clever" agreement I have used with my direct reports. Please come inside for the details...
At the beginning of this year, I was a manager to three team leaders. In March one of them left our company and I proposed “Alex” from that team to take the position but my boss, whose approval was required, had doubts because of Alex’s perceived lack of experience so I ended up becoming the acting TL for that group.
On a one-on-one, I proposed a plan to Alex: I was very clear in that I did not have anything to offer them at that point and that "no" was an acceptable answer but, if Alex agreed, I would rely on them as the unofficial TL and coach them through it so that they could demonstrate they were up to the task and, later this year, both of us would try to convince the boss to approve their promotion based on the results of Alex’s unofficial tenure. Alex agreed with this course of action. I had previously done this same deal and process with one of the other TL's and it worked out great for them.
Fast-Forward 3 months, a new VP (boss's boss) comes in and flattens the organization eliminating the TL positions. Now we have three managers reporting to my boss (myself and the other TLs who were promoted in title if nothing else). I then told Alex that, through no fault of their own, our plan had now become obsolete, and that I would gladly keep coaching them and that I would sponsor them for any other positions if they decided to apply for them. Alex was very upset by these news and now we all feel bad.
I think that circumstances more than the strategy itself were to blame for the plan not working out this time, but the sour results have given me some pause and I would like to hear the hive mind’s thoughts: Was I wrong in proposing this to Alex?
At the beginning of this year, I was a manager to three team leaders. In March one of them left our company and I proposed “Alex” from that team to take the position but my boss, whose approval was required, had doubts because of Alex’s perceived lack of experience so I ended up becoming the acting TL for that group.
On a one-on-one, I proposed a plan to Alex: I was very clear in that I did not have anything to offer them at that point and that "no" was an acceptable answer but, if Alex agreed, I would rely on them as the unofficial TL and coach them through it so that they could demonstrate they were up to the task and, later this year, both of us would try to convince the boss to approve their promotion based on the results of Alex’s unofficial tenure. Alex agreed with this course of action. I had previously done this same deal and process with one of the other TL's and it worked out great for them.
Fast-Forward 3 months, a new VP (boss's boss) comes in and flattens the organization eliminating the TL positions. Now we have three managers reporting to my boss (myself and the other TLs who were promoted in title if nothing else). I then told Alex that, through no fault of their own, our plan had now become obsolete, and that I would gladly keep coaching them and that I would sponsor them for any other positions if they decided to apply for them. Alex was very upset by these news and now we all feel bad.
I think that circumstances more than the strategy itself were to blame for the plan not working out this time, but the sour results have given me some pause and I would like to hear the hive mind’s thoughts: Was I wrong in proposing this to Alex?
I'm sorry to say I'm going to go with yes. It's not your fault that the new VP eliminated the position midway through the trial. Sometimes plans don't work out, and it leads to big time disappointment without anyone being the bad guy.
But it doesn't sound like your boss was in on this plan, and that you didn't have a clear timeline for when Alex would have made the jump even if it all worked out. So basically they did TL work for 3 months, without the pay, and without the recognition. Now the other people doing the same job are Managers, and no one even knows Alex can do that job (even if at a beginner level) at all. And there's no path forward for Alex now. If your boss had been on board with this plan from the start, there might have been some consideration on a path forward for Alex as part of the flattening.
What if you went to the boss and they still just said No? What would the plan be then? Would you take over the work Alex had been doing and they go back to their old level?
I've been in Alex's shoes before, and it was one of the main reasons I left that company. In my mind I thought I'd shown I could do the job. I did it without pay for a year. But I was refused for being inexperienced, while people at the same experience level advanced. But the boss still expected me to do all this extra work he'd gotten used to me doing. And don't get me wrong, I LOVED this boss. He was a great guy, and I don't regret working for him. But it just made me decide that the company wouldn't be good for me long term.
I think your coaching instincts are great, and I'm glad it worked out the first time. But don't ask people to do work they're not being compensated for in any way if you don't have the power to back it up.
posted by Caravantea at 3:55 PM on September 20, 2018 [26 favorites]
But it doesn't sound like your boss was in on this plan, and that you didn't have a clear timeline for when Alex would have made the jump even if it all worked out. So basically they did TL work for 3 months, without the pay, and without the recognition. Now the other people doing the same job are Managers, and no one even knows Alex can do that job (even if at a beginner level) at all. And there's no path forward for Alex now. If your boss had been on board with this plan from the start, there might have been some consideration on a path forward for Alex as part of the flattening.
What if you went to the boss and they still just said No? What would the plan be then? Would you take over the work Alex had been doing and they go back to their old level?
I've been in Alex's shoes before, and it was one of the main reasons I left that company. In my mind I thought I'd shown I could do the job. I did it without pay for a year. But I was refused for being inexperienced, while people at the same experience level advanced. But the boss still expected me to do all this extra work he'd gotten used to me doing. And don't get me wrong, I LOVED this boss. He was a great guy, and I don't regret working for him. But it just made me decide that the company wouldn't be good for me long term.
I think your coaching instincts are great, and I'm glad it worked out the first time. But don't ask people to do work they're not being compensated for in any way if you don't have the power to back it up.
posted by Caravantea at 3:55 PM on September 20, 2018 [26 favorites]
Despite Alex's disappointment under the circumstances, I don't think your plan was ill conceived and I wish I worked for more people like you. That said, by my take, you effectively proposed a mentorship, which is a relationship that can often be incredibly rewarding and beneficial for both parties. I agree with the above advice that the more you are able to formalize such endeavors with your superiors and within the organization, the better everyone's experiences will be. Mentoring is also an activity that has best practices and real measurements that, when applied, can help both mentor and mentee feel like they are getting something worthwhile out of the experience, even if career advancement isn't an outcome.
posted by juliplease at 4:02 PM on September 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 4:02 PM on September 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
I think I get both what you did and why Alex feels slighted, but like--Alex wasn't titled as a TL anyway. So is there any reason things have to actually change that much?
"Lead" is such a fuzzy position that if there are no more leads in terms of official titles, it still feels entirely legit to refer to Alex as the team's lead and you as the team's manager. Having both a lead and a manger is totally a thing; my team has both and the lead definitely has more day-to-day influence over our work, whereas the manager has more of a long-term role. It does seem like Alex has been slighted out of a proper position to be promoted into, but if you'll continue to provide support for the idea that Alex's leadership is important to your team, I don't think they have to actually lose that much out of this. It might just be that their next role is more likely to be in a different organization, if yours now has worse promotion prospects, but you can still support them.
If anything, the fact that there's no more leads means that it will depend very much on local culture, but that this might be even less of a barrier for him now introducing himself as officially the team's lead despite still being titled as, say, a senior developer. I think this would go better with at least some support from management, but I feel like the most upsetting thing here is "okay we're done with that" rather than "okay your promotion path here is weirder but we'll work on getting you more money/helping you transition into management/whatever else would be appropriate". My org chart says my lead isn't actually my superior, but hey, we're a self-organizing team, and this is how we organized. (Being able to throw around Agile buzzwords to support your decisions helps, at least where I am, ymmv.)
posted by Sequence at 4:04 PM on September 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Lead" is such a fuzzy position that if there are no more leads in terms of official titles, it still feels entirely legit to refer to Alex as the team's lead and you as the team's manager. Having both a lead and a manger is totally a thing; my team has both and the lead definitely has more day-to-day influence over our work, whereas the manager has more of a long-term role. It does seem like Alex has been slighted out of a proper position to be promoted into, but if you'll continue to provide support for the idea that Alex's leadership is important to your team, I don't think they have to actually lose that much out of this. It might just be that their next role is more likely to be in a different organization, if yours now has worse promotion prospects, but you can still support them.
If anything, the fact that there's no more leads means that it will depend very much on local culture, but that this might be even less of a barrier for him now introducing himself as officially the team's lead despite still being titled as, say, a senior developer. I think this would go better with at least some support from management, but I feel like the most upsetting thing here is "okay we're done with that" rather than "okay your promotion path here is weirder but we'll work on getting you more money/helping you transition into management/whatever else would be appropriate". My org chart says my lead isn't actually my superior, but hey, we're a self-organizing team, and this is how we organized. (Being able to throw around Agile buzzwords to support your decisions helps, at least where I am, ymmv.)
posted by Sequence at 4:04 PM on September 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I then told Alex that, through no fault of their own, our plan had now become obsolete, and that I would gladly keep coaching them and that I would sponsor them for any other positions if they decided to apply for them. Alex was very upset by these news and now we all feel bad.
If Alex had handled the news in a more professional way & showed some gratitude, do you think you would feel the same way now? I kind of doubt it? I don't think you were wrong to propose this plan, but you might have chosen someone who didn't deserve your help.
posted by bleep at 4:16 PM on September 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
If Alex had handled the news in a more professional way & showed some gratitude, do you think you would feel the same way now? I kind of doubt it? I don't think you were wrong to propose this plan, but you might have chosen someone who didn't deserve your help.
posted by bleep at 4:16 PM on September 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
It's a boon for Alex personally to have gotten a chance to develop those skills, but as someone above noted, if there isn't a path for him to use them (and get recognized/compensated for them) at your company, don't be surprised if he takes that new skill set with him elsewhere. That said, three months' work of experience in itself doesn't usually qualify someone to jump up a level. I don't blame him for being disappointed but... he wasn't particularly hard done by here.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:17 PM on September 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:17 PM on September 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
It sounds like you told Alex to do extra work without compensation, but had no actual authority to do so, because your boss specifically said Alex could not do the work. This doesn't sound like mentoring very much at all, and my assessment would be different if your boss had agreed to this arrangement - doing it on your own seems like a serious mistake.
It is challenging for a subordinate employee, who due to their position and career goals likely doesn't want to make a fuss, especially if doing your work has previously helped other employees get ahead. Sure, you gave them an opportunity to say no, but try to think about it from their perspective and how much choice they felt like they really had, especially if they wanted to keep their career moving.
You note that Alex is upset, so you probably should consider what your boss will think if/when Alex explains from their perspective what happened, and how they worked for so long doing your job without additional compensation, because you made them think it would help their career to do this additional uncompensated work. Mentoring can be great, but this seems like an example of how it could be exploitative and unfair.
posted by Little Dawn at 4:19 PM on September 20, 2018 [33 favorites]
It is challenging for a subordinate employee, who due to their position and career goals likely doesn't want to make a fuss, especially if doing your work has previously helped other employees get ahead. Sure, you gave them an opportunity to say no, but try to think about it from their perspective and how much choice they felt like they really had, especially if they wanted to keep their career moving.
You note that Alex is upset, so you probably should consider what your boss will think if/when Alex explains from their perspective what happened, and how they worked for so long doing your job without additional compensation, because you made them think it would help their career to do this additional uncompensated work. Mentoring can be great, but this seems like an example of how it could be exploitative and unfair.
posted by Little Dawn at 4:19 PM on September 20, 2018 [33 favorites]
One of the most frustrating things in my early career was how much I was relied on to do the work of management, but never had the title or pay. Sure, I got experience doing it, but not in any way that was recognized or portable. In resumes and cover letters, it looked identical to the padding that I'm sure most people do to make their experience sound more important. I can't count how many times I was ready for a job only to be told I didn't have the experience even though I'd been doing it from the second seat for years. It was nearly impossible to turn that work and experience into an offer at another place with the title. I had to make a series of lateral moves that stalled my career for almost a decade to get back to the work I had been doing at first.
posted by advicepig at 4:22 PM on September 20, 2018 [33 favorites]
posted by advicepig at 4:22 PM on September 20, 2018 [33 favorites]
I don't think you did anything all that wrong. In fact, I'll go one step further: I think you did the right thing in trying to train up a member of your organization to take on a bigger role. This is what I would want my team to do in those circumstances, instead of having you stretched to manage two leads and also act fully as a lead yourself indefinitely. The fact that your manager didn't want to make Alex an official lead doesn't mean that she was against you giving him stretch assignments, that is well within your mandate as the manager of that team. If Alex had struggled in the role, you would have seen the wisdom of your manager's stance, but it sounds like this was a case of incomplete information that could go either way.
You disappointed Alex, but you never promised them that this would work out, and it wasn't your boss who made the org change but the new VP. The idea that causing someone disappointment means that you are a failure as a manager is expecting too much from a manager.
Finally, the fact that you weren't paying them to do the TL role is totally besides the point. It is extremely commonplace for people to be expected to show they can do a job for a period of time before getting promoted into the job. Now, this was only a 3-month time period. Asking someone to indefinitely operate in a more senior role without title or compensation is exploitive. But that's not what you did here.
I think your conscience should be clear. You behaved with good intentions towards Alex, and the outcome is unfortunate but I would hate for you to become reluctant to give people these kind of changes just because this one didn't turn out.
posted by ch1x0r at 4:46 PM on September 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
You disappointed Alex, but you never promised them that this would work out, and it wasn't your boss who made the org change but the new VP. The idea that causing someone disappointment means that you are a failure as a manager is expecting too much from a manager.
Finally, the fact that you weren't paying them to do the TL role is totally besides the point. It is extremely commonplace for people to be expected to show they can do a job for a period of time before getting promoted into the job. Now, this was only a 3-month time period. Asking someone to indefinitely operate in a more senior role without title or compensation is exploitive. But that's not what you did here.
I think your conscience should be clear. You behaved with good intentions towards Alex, and the outcome is unfortunate but I would hate for you to become reluctant to give people these kind of changes just because this one didn't turn out.
posted by ch1x0r at 4:46 PM on September 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Experience is bullshit unless it can be backed up with evidence. Alex has nothing to show for his work but his word, and maybe yours (if the opportunity arises).
As a mentor and supervisor, I absolutely prioritize fairly compensating the people that work for me or my mentees, both in pay and title. I think it's not ethical to do so otherwise for many reasons. First, and most importantly, you are profiting off of someone else's labor. But you are also showing that person how to mentor others by example. When I do this, I'm modeling good behavior for the people that work for me. Some of them will be in my position someday, and I want them to treat their workers fairly too.
I'm sorry this turned out this way this time. It looks like you also taught yourself a valuable lesson about being a good mentor. One of the things that I enjoy about mentoring is that it gives me a way to reflect on my own behavior at work. Don't beat yourself up about this, just do differently in the future.
posted by sockermom at 4:54 PM on September 20, 2018 [14 favorites]
As a mentor and supervisor, I absolutely prioritize fairly compensating the people that work for me or my mentees, both in pay and title. I think it's not ethical to do so otherwise for many reasons. First, and most importantly, you are profiting off of someone else's labor. But you are also showing that person how to mentor others by example. When I do this, I'm modeling good behavior for the people that work for me. Some of them will be in my position someday, and I want them to treat their workers fairly too.
I'm sorry this turned out this way this time. It looks like you also taught yourself a valuable lesson about being a good mentor. One of the things that I enjoy about mentoring is that it gives me a way to reflect on my own behavior at work. Don't beat yourself up about this, just do differently in the future.
posted by sockermom at 4:54 PM on September 20, 2018 [14 favorites]
Coaching prospects for eventual promotion is a good thing! It is part of your job as a manager. The problem comes twofold - (1) calling it "unofficial Team Leader" which implies they're already doing the job without title/pay, and (2) tying the coaching to a specific date and a specific promotion that you don't have the power to fill. From Alex's perspective, you got Alex to do your job for free. You can coach someone and help them develop skills to be a team leader without them actually filling the role of team leader, officially or unofficially. This involves figuring out with your boss what skills Alex is lacking and helping Alex develop/demonstrate those skills within their current role.
posted by muddgirl at 5:44 PM on September 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 5:44 PM on September 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
Working above your level with the active support and mentorship of a manager for three months and then a higher level management change makes the entire career ladder obsolete? Alex is nursing sour grapes; you were not wrong.
posted by love2potato at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2018
posted by love2potato at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2018
I think this is fine. My employer has an unofficial policy of basically requiring people to do the job for a cycle before a promotion; in fact i’m in the middle of doing this myself. Basically this shows the org you are capable of doing the job before being promoted. Promotions are not guaranteed, but this is one of the best ways to get one if the opportunity presents itself. Perhaps not the most fair thing in the world for the employee, but it’s understood by all that’s the game we’re playing. But sometimes, orgs flatten and positions get eliminated. Shit happens, and there’s really nothing you can do. I don’t think you did anything wrong here, assuming you didn’t actually promise the promotion — that would have been a misstep. Doesn’t sound like that’s what you did, so in the end positions were eliminated and people feel bad as a result — it has nothing to do with your management style.
posted by cgg at 7:28 PM on September 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cgg at 7:28 PM on September 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think you may have exceeded your authority a little and this became apparent when the plan didn't work.
Personally, I would have made the unofficial parts official.
I would have included my manager in the plan and suggested Alex's role was the Acting TL role. A fomal development plan for Alex with a timescale and evidence they were capabale of the role.
Depnding on how upset Alex was I think your boss may have been right, and it may be worth thinking about that and how it relates to your own exerience and skills. Your boss probably knew about the VP plan and your effective demotion which is why they tried to keep the TL position open. I would have a discussion with them around whether this was the case. If it was then it may be worth discussing why they didn't feel they could trust you with this information. Consider your actions if they had told you the VP's plan in advance (whether you would have told Alex or the other TLs) and how this would give your boss pause in incuding you.
I have been in similar situations and taken the same route you took which is why my actions would have been different if the situation arose again.
posted by fullerine at 11:04 PM on September 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Personally, I would have made the unofficial parts official.
I would have included my manager in the plan and suggested Alex's role was the Acting TL role. A fomal development plan for Alex with a timescale and evidence they were capabale of the role.
Depnding on how upset Alex was I think your boss may have been right, and it may be worth thinking about that and how it relates to your own exerience and skills. Your boss probably knew about the VP plan and your effective demotion which is why they tried to keep the TL position open. I would have a discussion with them around whether this was the case. If it was then it may be worth discussing why they didn't feel they could trust you with this information. Consider your actions if they had told you the VP's plan in advance (whether you would have told Alex or the other TLs) and how this would give your boss pause in incuding you.
I have been in similar situations and taken the same route you took which is why my actions would have been different if the situation arose again.
posted by fullerine at 11:04 PM on September 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
On the American version of the television show The Office, there is a running joke based on an employee who has been given the title "Assistant to the Regional Manager." The actual manager, Michael, uses this fabricated title to trade on the employee's company loyalty/desire for promotion, regularly asking him to complete tasks that are far outside his scope of responsibilities. At one point in the series, a different employee attempts to explain this non-authorized relationship to a new corporate VP. The conversation did not go well.
I have no doubt that your intentions were positive, but making-up positions in a professional setting causes everyone to lose credibility.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:10 PM on September 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I have no doubt that your intentions were positive, but making-up positions in a professional setting causes everyone to lose credibility.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:10 PM on September 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I‘m not a manager, but what sticks out to me is that Alex has nothing to show for the work he did.
Is it possible for you to draw up some kind of performance review on paper, where it says what he did and how well he did it, plus a recommendation to consider him for the management track or something?
Again, not sure whether this would be good from the company‘s POV but it would give Alex something concrete for the work he did.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:40 PM on September 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
Is it possible for you to draw up some kind of performance review on paper, where it says what he did and how well he did it, plus a recommendation to consider him for the management track or something?
Again, not sure whether this would be good from the company‘s POV but it would give Alex something concrete for the work he did.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:40 PM on September 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
I don't think you were wrong. I know (and the comments here make clear) that some places view promotions as pretty formal: You do a job at level 3, then a spot at level 4 opens up and you get promoted and trained and increased pay. Where I've worked though the best way to get promoted into a new role is to already be doing the work, and the difficulty of getting management experience 'informally' is actually a problem, so I view your set up as generous and helpful. Alex presumably learned new skills and is better situated if something comes up, internally or externally. Only thing on your side is whether you made explicit to your managment (both before and after the change) that Alex was getting experience and ability.
Thing is I don't think Alex is wrong to be annoyed either; from their point of view the company made a commitment and then reneged. The "through no fault of their own" framing is probably a bit tone deaf. Why should Alex think it's their fault? You are the one who couldn't execute on your half of the agreement and get Alex the job, albeit for extraordinary reasons. Maybe Alex isn't responding maturely but resentment will be human.
posted by mark k at 7:18 AM on September 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Thing is I don't think Alex is wrong to be annoyed either; from their point of view the company made a commitment and then reneged. The "through no fault of their own" framing is probably a bit tone deaf. Why should Alex think it's their fault? You are the one who couldn't execute on your half of the agreement and get Alex the job, albeit for extraordinary reasons. Maybe Alex isn't responding maturely but resentment will be human.
posted by mark k at 7:18 AM on September 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I get what you were trying to do here and it was a good and generous thing, but without your boss's agreement and participation you were taking quite a risk.
posted by DrGail at 3:40 PM on September 20, 2018 [6 favorites]