Is my MIL at risk of being scammed here?
September 15, 2018 4:16 AM Subscribe
My mother-in-law’s new-ish friend “Charlie” has borrowed money from her several times, but always returned the loan. Now Charlie is abroad and in trouble and needs money sent over urgently. I have concerns.
MIL met Charlie through a shared hobby a year or two ago. They aren’t hugely close as friends but do meet for hobby-related things fairly regularly.
I don’t know why Charlie has borrowed money from MIL on several occasions previously, except that it has been for some kind of last-minute unexpected crisis on all occasions. (I do know that he repaid her when he said he would). It was a moderate amount, enough to be done via direct bank transfer rather than cash. This is unlike MIL and it surprised me - she’s very kind and generous, but she’s very cautious around money and she hasn’t known Charlie that long or that well.
Charlie is currently abroad for a short trip. This morning he contacted MIL to say that he’d been attacked, drugged and had all his money cleared out from his bank account, and needed MIL to transfer money to another bank account so he could get help/get home. I know this is a common scam with scammers impersonating the person in trouble abroad, but MIL phoned Charlie to check and spoke to him directly.
MIL didn’t transfer him the money this time, and instead on mine and my husband’s advice sent him the details to the British consulate in the foreign city he’s in instead (we’re all UK citizens). But she is worried about Charlie and I think feels bad for not ‘helping’, although is content that the consulate will be better situated to provide help than she is anyway.
I have a bad feeling about this whole situation, both the current request and the history of previous ones. Charlie isn’t living in poverty and I’m unclear why he’d need to borrow money short-term from MIL at all, and the “in trouble abroad quick send money!” thing is sending massive alarm bells ringing. (And wouldn’t criminals who drugged you steal your phone too?). That said, Charlie does not seem like a master criminal - if anything, he comes across as fairly naive himself and possibly on the autistic spectrum. And he has always paid MIL back so far.
So I suppose what I’m asking is:
1) am I right to feel there’s something odd here?
2) if so, what’s the best way to advise caution for MIL, more tactfully than “maybe don’t trust your new friend”?
MIL met Charlie through a shared hobby a year or two ago. They aren’t hugely close as friends but do meet for hobby-related things fairly regularly.
I don’t know why Charlie has borrowed money from MIL on several occasions previously, except that it has been for some kind of last-minute unexpected crisis on all occasions. (I do know that he repaid her when he said he would). It was a moderate amount, enough to be done via direct bank transfer rather than cash. This is unlike MIL and it surprised me - she’s very kind and generous, but she’s very cautious around money and she hasn’t known Charlie that long or that well.
Charlie is currently abroad for a short trip. This morning he contacted MIL to say that he’d been attacked, drugged and had all his money cleared out from his bank account, and needed MIL to transfer money to another bank account so he could get help/get home. I know this is a common scam with scammers impersonating the person in trouble abroad, but MIL phoned Charlie to check and spoke to him directly.
MIL didn’t transfer him the money this time, and instead on mine and my husband’s advice sent him the details to the British consulate in the foreign city he’s in instead (we’re all UK citizens). But she is worried about Charlie and I think feels bad for not ‘helping’, although is content that the consulate will be better situated to provide help than she is anyway.
I have a bad feeling about this whole situation, both the current request and the history of previous ones. Charlie isn’t living in poverty and I’m unclear why he’d need to borrow money short-term from MIL at all, and the “in trouble abroad quick send money!” thing is sending massive alarm bells ringing. (And wouldn’t criminals who drugged you steal your phone too?). That said, Charlie does not seem like a master criminal - if anything, he comes across as fairly naive himself and possibly on the autistic spectrum. And he has always paid MIL back so far.
So I suppose what I’m asking is:
1) am I right to feel there’s something odd here?
2) if so, what’s the best way to advise caution for MIL, more tactfully than “maybe don’t trust your new friend”?
The pre-borrowing and paying back is testing your MIL to see if she's good for the money and sufficiently soft-hearted. Charlie's probably not abroad, just moved on to the next town over so he can work his marks. Charlie won't have reported it to police 'cos he's already known to them.
Charlie's a grifter. This is a ‘loan’ your MIL will never get back. I fell for the "beaten up abroad" scam when I was much younger, and that was £300 via Western Union I never saw again.
posted by scruss at 4:48 AM on September 15, 2018 [100 favorites]
Charlie's a grifter. This is a ‘loan’ your MIL will never get back. I fell for the "beaten up abroad" scam when I was much younger, and that was £300 via Western Union I never saw again.
posted by scruss at 4:48 AM on September 15, 2018 [100 favorites]
1. Completely fishy.
2. Perhaps tell MIL that this is a very common way that some people steal money from nice people - it happens all the time. Which is not to say, MIL, that we totally know that Charlie is doing that common scam. But you have to admit, MIL, that the thing about sending money to a *different* bank account is kind of weird. If you really need to, you can buy him a plane ticket - not send him the money but buy it yourself. My guess, MIL, is that he won't want that.
posted by sheldman at 5:16 AM on September 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
2. Perhaps tell MIL that this is a very common way that some people steal money from nice people - it happens all the time. Which is not to say, MIL, that we totally know that Charlie is doing that common scam. But you have to admit, MIL, that the thing about sending money to a *different* bank account is kind of weird. If you really need to, you can buy him a plane ticket - not send him the money but buy it yourself. My guess, MIL, is that he won't want that.
posted by sheldman at 5:16 AM on September 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
(note, regarding my answer above. I personally believe a 99.9 percent likelihood that Charlie is scamming her. But was trying to imagine how to actually persuade a sweet person to be careful.)
posted by sheldman at 5:29 AM on September 15, 2018
posted by sheldman at 5:29 AM on September 15, 2018
Charlie does not seem like a master criminal
Nobody gets scammed by someone who seems like a master criminal, because, well, they seem like a master criminal. So people don’t lend them money.
I’d hazard that nigh on 100% of people who have successfully scammed someone else have persuaded that person that they are nice/naive/genuine etc. It’s practically line one of the job description.
The good news may be that by failing to bail him out, she has revealed herself to be less gullible than he’d hoped and he may move on.
If not - can you find descriptions of similar scams online, print them out and give them to her to show how typical a scam this is (and that she’s done well to not fall for it, and should continue in that vein?) Am on my phone so not ideal for searching myself, sorry.
posted by penguin pie at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Nobody gets scammed by someone who seems like a master criminal, because, well, they seem like a master criminal. So people don’t lend them money.
I’d hazard that nigh on 100% of people who have successfully scammed someone else have persuaded that person that they are nice/naive/genuine etc. It’s practically line one of the job description.
The good news may be that by failing to bail him out, she has revealed herself to be less gullible than he’d hoped and he may move on.
If not - can you find descriptions of similar scams online, print them out and give them to her to show how typical a scam this is (and that she’s done well to not fall for it, and should continue in that vein?) Am on my phone so not ideal for searching myself, sorry.
posted by penguin pie at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
(Sorry, that last suggestion doesn’t really fit with your request for a tactful solution, but this may not be the place for tact - it could still be done with kindness, and an emphasis on how well she’s done to resist his request, so she doesn’t feel a fool).
posted by penguin pie at 5:53 AM on September 15, 2018
posted by penguin pie at 5:53 AM on September 15, 2018
I would bet anything Charlie is a scammer. Preying on older women is a thing. I just want to add that borrowing and paying back wasn’t just checking her vulnerability - it was also building trust. Charlie’s really good at this. I don’t know UK law, but is there a way to check him out with the police? It’s highly unlikely your MIL is his first mark, and it would be good for them to know. The police could also confirm how common this is - as can internet searching. Good on your MIL for not losing money. Women lose their life savings this way - and it happens all the time.
Agree that it’s important that you emphasize that she shouldn’t feel stupid over this. She got suspicious just in time.
posted by FencingGal at 6:34 AM on September 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Agree that it’s important that you emphasize that she shouldn’t feel stupid over this. She got suspicious just in time.
posted by FencingGal at 6:34 AM on September 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Just adding to the consensus that this is certainly a scam.
By the way, if your mother-in-law were to help Charlie out, I guarantee that whatever she sent would not be the end of the story. More costs would arise, more twists would occur. This is a common trait of these scams and preys on the 'sunk cost fallacy': if you stop sending money, you feel like all the previous investment was wasted. So when his appendix bursts as he's about to board the plane, and then he gets robbed again in the hospital, and then his passport is confiscated because his visa expired, the victim is obliged to throw more and more and more money into an ever-deepening hole.
Well done for not taking the bait. Tell Charlie to contact his travel insurance company. If he doesn't have travel insurance, tell him he should consider his current challenges as a heaven-sent lesson about the importance of travelling with proper insurance. And tell him you look forward to laughing about it over a glass of wine if and when he makes it back to Blighty.
posted by matthew.alexander at 6:54 AM on September 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
By the way, if your mother-in-law were to help Charlie out, I guarantee that whatever she sent would not be the end of the story. More costs would arise, more twists would occur. This is a common trait of these scams and preys on the 'sunk cost fallacy': if you stop sending money, you feel like all the previous investment was wasted. So when his appendix bursts as he's about to board the plane, and then he gets robbed again in the hospital, and then his passport is confiscated because his visa expired, the victim is obliged to throw more and more and more money into an ever-deepening hole.
Well done for not taking the bait. Tell Charlie to contact his travel insurance company. If he doesn't have travel insurance, tell him he should consider his current challenges as a heaven-sent lesson about the importance of travelling with proper insurance. And tell him you look forward to laughing about it over a glass of wine if and when he makes it back to Blighty.
posted by matthew.alexander at 6:54 AM on September 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
Your MIL’s and your instincts are absolutely right and you can reassure her she should not act on the guilt she’s feeling. It’s merely an effect of the manipulation Charlie is putting her through.
Also agreed that she can liaise with the consulate and/or buy him a plane ticket if she’s that worried. And that he should have reported it and will have a documentation trail if he has.
Agreed with those who say the previous borrowings and repayments were to build trust and condition your MIL to send Charlie money. If she doesn’t do it this time, well, why not? Does she not trust him or something? Is she accusing him of being a scammer? Well... yes actually because he’s acting just like one.
And maybe he seems like he’s on the spectrum because he’s good at playing dumb and naïve. But many people who act against you will leave enough ambiguity that it could, at least technically, be inadvertent. It’s also a good point that he may be acting under the direction of someone less naive.
If I had to bet I would bet that the ASD version of Charlie is a swappable persona and if you saw him in another context unexpectedly you would be shocked that he seems like a totally different person. But there’s no way to really know.
I say check him out with the police, don’t fork over any money, and toast yourselves in Cava when it turns out you were right.
posted by tel3path at 7:18 AM on September 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also agreed that she can liaise with the consulate and/or buy him a plane ticket if she’s that worried. And that he should have reported it and will have a documentation trail if he has.
Agreed with those who say the previous borrowings and repayments were to build trust and condition your MIL to send Charlie money. If she doesn’t do it this time, well, why not? Does she not trust him or something? Is she accusing him of being a scammer? Well... yes actually because he’s acting just like one.
And maybe he seems like he’s on the spectrum because he’s good at playing dumb and naïve. But many people who act against you will leave enough ambiguity that it could, at least technically, be inadvertent. It’s also a good point that he may be acting under the direction of someone less naive.
If I had to bet I would bet that the ASD version of Charlie is a swappable persona and if you saw him in another context unexpectedly you would be shocked that he seems like a totally different person. But there’s no way to really know.
I say check him out with the police, don’t fork over any money, and toast yourselves in Cava when it turns out you were right.
posted by tel3path at 7:18 AM on September 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
If MIL is still unsure that Charlie's a grifter because he seems so naive and nice, ask her why he is borrowing all this money from someone he has met recently through a hobby. Where is his reliable childhood friend, someone in his family who has a bit of cash, or any I'd-do-anything-for-them reciprocal relationships one builds up during a lifetime? Is there a reason this guy -- who is so able to form a close enough attachment to a new acquaintance that he can feel comfortable asking for this level of favor -- has no background? If he were really so socially awkward to the point of having no one else in his life, you might point out, he wouldn't have been able to get close to her this way so quickly.
Ask her: if you were stuck with no money, would you be calling a new friend from your hobby group?
Your MIL is lucky to have you and your spouse there as a reality check, because these guys can be incredibly manipulative and gaslighty. You're helping her dodge a known bullet.
posted by nantucket at 7:34 AM on September 15, 2018 [37 favorites]
Ask her: if you were stuck with no money, would you be calling a new friend from your hobby group?
Your MIL is lucky to have you and your spouse there as a reality check, because these guys can be incredibly manipulative and gaslighty. You're helping her dodge a known bullet.
posted by nantucket at 7:34 AM on September 15, 2018 [37 favorites]
An acquaintance of mine got scammed by a granddaughter in jail, send bail money scam and her granddaughter wasn't even involved. So if she got a text, not a phone call on a clearly audible line, it's (remotely) possible that this is a scam but he is not actively involved. (I don't know if that scenario would make her feel better as she waits.)
Does she know him not to have relatives, children, friends? It's odd that she's the number one source of financial help in his life. I don't borrow from my friends, but I have tried to hit up my brother for loans occasionally.
posted by puddledork at 8:33 AM on September 15, 2018
Does she know him not to have relatives, children, friends? It's odd that she's the number one source of financial help in his life. I don't borrow from my friends, but I have tried to hit up my brother for loans occasionally.
posted by puddledork at 8:33 AM on September 15, 2018
Definitely a scam, but I also just wanted to say that it also seems odd to offer to buy a plane ticket. How many people go on vacation without booking a return flight? Why doesn't this guy have credit cards, in which case if he'd really been robbed he'd just call, cancel the cards, and have new ones sent to him? How is it even possible for a robber to empty out a bank account, when debit cards have daily maximum withdrawal limits and require a passcode that a drugged victim presumably couldn't provide? Anyway, yeah, a scam. She shouldn't offer to help him in any additional way.
posted by pinochiette at 9:14 AM on September 15, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 9:14 AM on September 15, 2018 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: To clarify: she definitely spoke to Charlie on the phone, so to the extent that there’s a scam here (and I think there is) then Charlie’s an active part of it.
He apparently cannot ask family or friends for money because he’s estranged from his family and doesn’t have many friends. I don’t find this very convincing, especially not after nantucket‘s point.
I’m speaking to her tonight and will see if she’s heard anything from him since the call from abroad (or not...) earlier today. Thank you.
posted by Catseye at 9:38 AM on September 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
He apparently cannot ask family or friends for money because he’s estranged from his family and doesn’t have many friends. I don’t find this very convincing, especially not after nantucket‘s point.
I’m speaking to her tonight and will see if she’s heard anything from him since the call from abroad (or not...) earlier today. Thank you.
posted by Catseye at 9:38 AM on September 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
2) if so, what’s the best way to advise caution for MIL, more tactfully than “maybe don’t trust your new friend”?
Maybe point out that if she wasn't a kind and caring person she wouldn't be a target - the fact she'd readily help a friend in need is a good thing!
And it's called a "long con" for a reason - successful scammers lay the a groundwork of trust first. We have friends, perfectly intelligent people our own age, get taken in a somewhat similar way a while back.
If this is a con, he's put a effort into gaining her trust - he's been working at establishing his own "credit rating" with her through repaid loans.
If you're looking for examples to cite, in Maria Konnikova's book The Confidence Game, she looks at numerous examples of very smart and reasonable people being grifted. In the chapter about the process of gaining trust and setting up the con ("The Put-Up"), she says:
...confidence artists can use what they're learning as they go in order to get us to give up even more. We are more trusting of people who seem more familiar and similar to us, and we open up to them in ways we don't to strangers: those like us and those we know or recognize are unlikely to want to hurt us.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:47 AM on September 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Maybe point out that if she wasn't a kind and caring person she wouldn't be a target - the fact she'd readily help a friend in need is a good thing!
And it's called a "long con" for a reason - successful scammers lay the a groundwork of trust first. We have friends, perfectly intelligent people our own age, get taken in a somewhat similar way a while back.
If this is a con, he's put a effort into gaining her trust - he's been working at establishing his own "credit rating" with her through repaid loans.
If you're looking for examples to cite, in Maria Konnikova's book The Confidence Game, she looks at numerous examples of very smart and reasonable people being grifted. In the chapter about the process of gaining trust and setting up the con ("The Put-Up"), she says:
...confidence artists can use what they're learning as they go in order to get us to give up even more. We are more trusting of people who seem more familiar and similar to us, and we open up to them in ways we don't to strangers: those like us and those we know or recognize are unlikely to want to hurt us.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:47 AM on September 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Take your MIL to the local police, and as k what to do. I'm no fan of the old bill, but if Charlie's known to them and matches your MIL's description it should make doubt go away
posted by scruss at 9:49 AM on September 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by scruss at 9:49 AM on September 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Your mom should ask Charlie to send her pictures of his injuries after this attack.
posted by kitty teeth at 11:23 AM on September 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kitty teeth at 11:23 AM on September 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
He apparently cannot ask family or friends for money because he’s estranged from his family and doesn’t have many friends. I don’t find this very convincing, especially not after nantucket‘s point.
There are many reasons to think that this may be a scam, but this is not one of them. Please don't think that if someone doesn't have many friends there must be something wrong with them (either they are so socially awkward that it's immediately noticeable or they are grifters). It's super common, just read askme archives about family and friendship.
This is a big problem nowadays in politics as well. People who are fortunate to have a rich social life with many friends and acquaintances and a close family they can rely on (i.e. most politicians) just do not understand that that is for a big part just luck. Apparently they really think that everyone can just choose to have this safety net, so we don't need as much welfare etc., because why not just ask one of your many friends for help if you're in need? I thought that everyone knew that that was nonsensical, it is well known that completely normal people with office jobs end up homeless all the time. And not always because of medical catastrophes, it's often just little things that add up. But apparently not.
In this case, I agree that referring to the consulate was a good idea. That's what they're for (or the travel insurance company, travel organizer, etc.). It's totally okay to not want to lend more money, regardless of reason.
posted by blub at 11:25 AM on September 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
There are many reasons to think that this may be a scam, but this is not one of them. Please don't think that if someone doesn't have many friends there must be something wrong with them (either they are so socially awkward that it's immediately noticeable or they are grifters). It's super common, just read askme archives about family and friendship.
This is a big problem nowadays in politics as well. People who are fortunate to have a rich social life with many friends and acquaintances and a close family they can rely on (i.e. most politicians) just do not understand that that is for a big part just luck. Apparently they really think that everyone can just choose to have this safety net, so we don't need as much welfare etc., because why not just ask one of your many friends for help if you're in need? I thought that everyone knew that that was nonsensical, it is well known that completely normal people with office jobs end up homeless all the time. And not always because of medical catastrophes, it's often just little things that add up. But apparently not.
In this case, I agree that referring to the consulate was a good idea. That's what they're for (or the travel insurance company, travel organizer, etc.). It's totally okay to not want to lend more money, regardless of reason.
posted by blub at 11:25 AM on September 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
I am so glad she trusted her judgment. One thought that might soothe her totally unnecessary guilt is that she can maintain a supportive friendship with Charlie while still deciding to draw a boundary against lending him money again. She doesn't need a reason beyond the fact that money complicates relationships (case in point). If he abandons the friendship when she withdraws the possibility of financial support in the future, then she has her answer.
posted by juliplease at 11:27 AM on September 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 11:27 AM on September 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by lakeroon at 4:30 AM on September 15, 2018 [7 favorites]