Brother might be depressed, how can a mildly estranged sister help?
July 20, 2018 9:46 AM Subscribe
My mother is worried about my brother and wants me to call him and try and get him to talk to me. We haven't talked outside of family gatherings since I left home at 6 years ago. What do?
Backstory: I left home 5 days after I turned 18 because my parents were emotionally abusive and homophobic. I did this without their permission and they completely flipped out, so I was cut off from my whole family for about a year. Slowly things have gotten better, and I been attending family gatherings and the occasional invitation to a movie or dinner at their house.
Before I left, my relationship with my brother wasn't great. I had significant sensory processing difficulties, and he and my younger brother were constantly loud (usually fighting or arguing) and I spent a lot of my teenage years screaming at them to shut up (and/or crying in my bedroom). I'm not proud of it, and it's not something I've ever apologized for--but I also don't know if it's something that they were ever hurt by, because they only ever seemed to be amused or annoyed by my screaming. But I don't know.
Since leaving, I've talked to my brother only at family gatherings; we talk about video games and our relationship is perfectly cordial but we aren't close at all. I've texted him a congratulations about a new job or to say happy birthday but that's it outside these family gatherings. I have wanted to get closer in the past couple of years but haven't known how to do that. I never came out to him (or anyone in my family, though I know at least my dad and grandpa figured it out due to the fact that I've been "best friends" and living with the same female-presenting person for the last 6 years; not sure about my mother, who is oblivious and good at denial), and I don't know if he knows why I left my parents' house.
I also don't know if my parents are still emotionally abusing him like they were me. I know they have gotten better in some ways because my mother has texted me asking for advice and indicated things such as "and I know we can't do [x controlling thing that they did to me] because that will just make it worse," but there is still lots of yelling whenever I go over to the house. However it's always just telling my brothers to do household chores, except yelling it--I have not heard them yell anything emotionally abusive. But who knows if they're doing that in secret.
Today my mother texted me asking me to give my brother a call and ask how he's doing, because he doesn't talk to my parents about much of anything, and she's hoping that maybe he'll talk to me. Previously, she's expressed concerns about depression due to a conversation she overheard between him and an online friend, but later told me she talked to him about it and he said that was about something "years ago" and he's over that (which could be legit but also sounds exactly like me when trying to explain away the really depressing short stories I wrote). In this text she expressed concern about his laziness, though I don't know precisely what she means by that.
I really don't know how to approach this conversation. He's a 19 year old boy that doesn't talk much as it is. If I call (or text him, since I am 99.999% sure that is what he would infinitely prefer) and just ask how he's doing, I don't think there's any chance of me getting anything other than "yeah I'm fine." But I don't know how to express that I am concerned about him, because I grew up in that household and I went through a period of deep depression around his age. Part of the problem is I have never talked to him about what my parents did as being abusive, and I don't know if he sees it that way or not. I guess part of me is still afraid he'll disagree with me and then tell my parents that I said they're abusive--I know it's a childish fear, but I have never confronted them about their abuse and I don't know if I can now.
From the interaction I've had, and my parents' general lack of patience or understanding with how adolescence works, it's really difficult for me to show if he's showing signs of depression or if he's just being a teenager. And I don't know how to approach this conversation in a way that will actually be helpful for him, rather than just an exchanging of empty words. Advice?
Backstory: I left home 5 days after I turned 18 because my parents were emotionally abusive and homophobic. I did this without their permission and they completely flipped out, so I was cut off from my whole family for about a year. Slowly things have gotten better, and I been attending family gatherings and the occasional invitation to a movie or dinner at their house.
Before I left, my relationship with my brother wasn't great. I had significant sensory processing difficulties, and he and my younger brother were constantly loud (usually fighting or arguing) and I spent a lot of my teenage years screaming at them to shut up (and/or crying in my bedroom). I'm not proud of it, and it's not something I've ever apologized for--but I also don't know if it's something that they were ever hurt by, because they only ever seemed to be amused or annoyed by my screaming. But I don't know.
Since leaving, I've talked to my brother only at family gatherings; we talk about video games and our relationship is perfectly cordial but we aren't close at all. I've texted him a congratulations about a new job or to say happy birthday but that's it outside these family gatherings. I have wanted to get closer in the past couple of years but haven't known how to do that. I never came out to him (or anyone in my family, though I know at least my dad and grandpa figured it out due to the fact that I've been "best friends" and living with the same female-presenting person for the last 6 years; not sure about my mother, who is oblivious and good at denial), and I don't know if he knows why I left my parents' house.
I also don't know if my parents are still emotionally abusing him like they were me. I know they have gotten better in some ways because my mother has texted me asking for advice and indicated things such as "and I know we can't do [x controlling thing that they did to me] because that will just make it worse," but there is still lots of yelling whenever I go over to the house. However it's always just telling my brothers to do household chores, except yelling it--I have not heard them yell anything emotionally abusive. But who knows if they're doing that in secret.
Today my mother texted me asking me to give my brother a call and ask how he's doing, because he doesn't talk to my parents about much of anything, and she's hoping that maybe he'll talk to me. Previously, she's expressed concerns about depression due to a conversation she overheard between him and an online friend, but later told me she talked to him about it and he said that was about something "years ago" and he's over that (which could be legit but also sounds exactly like me when trying to explain away the really depressing short stories I wrote). In this text she expressed concern about his laziness, though I don't know precisely what she means by that.
I really don't know how to approach this conversation. He's a 19 year old boy that doesn't talk much as it is. If I call (or text him, since I am 99.999% sure that is what he would infinitely prefer) and just ask how he's doing, I don't think there's any chance of me getting anything other than "yeah I'm fine." But I don't know how to express that I am concerned about him, because I grew up in that household and I went through a period of deep depression around his age. Part of the problem is I have never talked to him about what my parents did as being abusive, and I don't know if he sees it that way or not. I guess part of me is still afraid he'll disagree with me and then tell my parents that I said they're abusive--I know it's a childish fear, but I have never confronted them about their abuse and I don't know if I can now.
From the interaction I've had, and my parents' general lack of patience or understanding with how adolescence works, it's really difficult for me to show if he's showing signs of depression or if he's just being a teenager. And I don't know how to approach this conversation in a way that will actually be helpful for him, rather than just an exchanging of empty words. Advice?
You can't force it but would be nice to send him a message asking how he is, that you're thinking of him and are available if he ever wants to chat in confidence or just hang out for a bit.
I've found as we've aged that it has become easier to get along with family - distance from each other but also from the past.
posted by JonB at 10:33 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've found as we've aged that it has become easier to get along with family - distance from each other but also from the past.
posted by JonB at 10:33 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Based on what you're saying, it sounds like...
- your mother is asking you to be her agent in communicating with your brother, and possibly expects you to report back to her (aka, triangulation). It sounds like you're not entirely comfortable with that.
- you're working on (and having some difficulty with) rebuilding your relationship with your brother in a way that feels healthy for you.
- also and separately, you're still working on redefining your relationship with your parents in a way that feels healthy for you.
It's clear that you care about your brother, and you're worried that he may still be being abused in the way you were. Your former and perhaps current abuser is -- perhaps completely unintentionally -- stirring up those worries and caring feelings of yours, which is causing you to drift back towards the abusive system you only just escaped. It sounds like you've got some serious doubts about whether that's a good idea -- listen to those doubts!
I'd urge you to...
1. Avoid participating in triangulation (see this helpful article for a summary of why and how)
2. Address your relationship with each of your family members separately. Your relationship with your brother is your relationship with your brother; it doesn't have to meet your mom's needs, but it does have to meet yours. If you feel like you can and want to reach out to him* and create a deeper and more mutually supportive relationship, that's your choice, and it will have to be accomplished between you and him (not between you, him, and your mom). Same goes for your relationship with your mom. This is related to point 1.
3. Take care of yourself. When you've been living in a dysfunctional system, it's all too easy to think only about other people's needs (your mom's needs, your brother's needs), and get disconnected from what YOU need. How does this request feel to you? What is it that you want from this situation? What do you realistically have to give? What are your boundaries?
4. Get some help. Do you have a support system that's there for you? A therapist you trust? It sounds like you are still healing after some pretty traumatic events. Right now may be both (1) a time when you feel a bit fragile and prone to getting pulled back into the old dynamic, even if that's not really what you want, and (2) a really good opportunity to practice different ways of doing things and finding ways that feel more healthy and self-caring. This is tough and complex stuff; getting support from others during this time is crucial.
I truly wish you luck. It's clear that you've done a lot of work to pull yourself out an unhealthy, abusive dynamic, and that the work is not done yet. This is very hard to deal with, so get some help you trust, and keep working to stay anchored to your own self!
*Here are some ideas on how to cultivate a relationship with your brother. A lot of it seems to boil down to building a friendship, so -- what would you do if you had an acquaintance you wanted to turn into a friend? Try that with your brother. Whether it works is up to him as much as it is up to you -- and it may evolve over time, so don't give up. Know, too, that if you are acting as your parents' informant and your brother finds out (he will), that could cause a lot of damage to your relationship -- so make sure it stays about him, not them.
posted by ourobouros at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
- your mother is asking you to be her agent in communicating with your brother, and possibly expects you to report back to her (aka, triangulation). It sounds like you're not entirely comfortable with that.
- you're working on (and having some difficulty with) rebuilding your relationship with your brother in a way that feels healthy for you.
- also and separately, you're still working on redefining your relationship with your parents in a way that feels healthy for you.
It's clear that you care about your brother, and you're worried that he may still be being abused in the way you were. Your former and perhaps current abuser is -- perhaps completely unintentionally -- stirring up those worries and caring feelings of yours, which is causing you to drift back towards the abusive system you only just escaped. It sounds like you've got some serious doubts about whether that's a good idea -- listen to those doubts!
I'd urge you to...
1. Avoid participating in triangulation (see this helpful article for a summary of why and how)
2. Address your relationship with each of your family members separately. Your relationship with your brother is your relationship with your brother; it doesn't have to meet your mom's needs, but it does have to meet yours. If you feel like you can and want to reach out to him* and create a deeper and more mutually supportive relationship, that's your choice, and it will have to be accomplished between you and him (not between you, him, and your mom). Same goes for your relationship with your mom. This is related to point 1.
3. Take care of yourself. When you've been living in a dysfunctional system, it's all too easy to think only about other people's needs (your mom's needs, your brother's needs), and get disconnected from what YOU need. How does this request feel to you? What is it that you want from this situation? What do you realistically have to give? What are your boundaries?
4. Get some help. Do you have a support system that's there for you? A therapist you trust? It sounds like you are still healing after some pretty traumatic events. Right now may be both (1) a time when you feel a bit fragile and prone to getting pulled back into the old dynamic, even if that's not really what you want, and (2) a really good opportunity to practice different ways of doing things and finding ways that feel more healthy and self-caring. This is tough and complex stuff; getting support from others during this time is crucial.
I truly wish you luck. It's clear that you've done a lot of work to pull yourself out an unhealthy, abusive dynamic, and that the work is not done yet. This is very hard to deal with, so get some help you trust, and keep working to stay anchored to your own self!
*Here are some ideas on how to cultivate a relationship with your brother. A lot of it seems to boil down to building a friendship, so -- what would you do if you had an acquaintance you wanted to turn into a friend? Try that with your brother. Whether it works is up to him as much as it is up to you -- and it may evolve over time, so don't give up. Know, too, that if you are acting as your parents' informant and your brother finds out (he will), that could cause a lot of damage to your relationship -- so make sure it stays about him, not them.
posted by ourobouros at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
I was trying to think of how i would approach this with my brother, but we have a much less complicated relationship with each other and our parents. Regardless, I was thinking a text that sort of makes it about you, and your experience at the age (at a high level) and that you realize he might be going though similar shit now? Leave your mom out of it entirely. Maybe something along the lines of 'hey bro - just wanted to see how you're holding up? I was just remembering being 18 and living in the house and how much it sucked for me, so if you feel like venting to someone who might have a chance at understanding, let me know, i'm here'. And then leave it at that. He may respond, he might not, but at least he knows you're there if needed.
posted by cgg at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2018
posted by cgg at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2018
What ourobouros says. When you were younger it wasn't possible to be closer to your brother. It may be possible now, simply because you would like that. So try, if you want to, but do let your brother know that you are not sharing anything with your mom and don't share anything with your mom. I refuse to tell my dad anything about my siblings because they have stopped talking to him for reasons and it is not my job to be the go-between. I do my thing, they do theirs, it is fine, we are still buddies. Take care of yourself. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 10:48 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 10:48 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'll add that if your brother is depressed and doesn't want to talk to your parents about it, this could mess up your relationship with him if he thinks you are trying to get information for your mom (which it sounds like is what your mom wants). The above advice about trying to develop a separate relationship with him seems good.
BTW, this is true regardless of your mom's motives - and she could be coming from a place of genuinely caring about him and wanting to make sure he's OK. But at 19, he's an adult, and he gets to decide what he wants to share with her.
posted by FencingGal at 10:53 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
BTW, this is true regardless of your mom's motives - and she could be coming from a place of genuinely caring about him and wanting to make sure he's OK. But at 19, he's an adult, and he gets to decide what he wants to share with her.
posted by FencingGal at 10:53 AM on July 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm answering the question starting from the assumption stated in your question (your brother might be depressed) and how to have a conversation about this with him.
Also as a start, I will nth what other people stated (i.e., start a friendship, hang out on a regular basis, do not relay any information you find out with your parents).
But I do have something different to add to this part of your question:
...Part of the problem is I have never talked to him about what my parents did as being abusive, and I don't know if he sees it that way or not. I guess part of me is still afraid he'll disagree with me and then tell my parents that I said they're abusive...
You can still have the conversation, but have it in a more nuanced way. For example, at age X, I felt X. This is what happened to me at home [give an example]. But you remove comments such as whether you conclude that it was abusive. He can listen to what you experienced, what you felt, and make his own conclusion.
If he is depressed or going through something similar, I do think a conversation might help (assuming that you work at building up a friendship first). Mainly because he would realize it is okay to be vulnerable/say how you feel based on what you stated (and he might see similarities). Also, there is a significant difference between relationships in childhood vs. adulthood, and that type of conversation might help him realize that, too.
Also nthing that you could state how you would never repeat what he tells you (per the advice from another poster above) so that he realized that it might be safe to disclose and discuss things with you.
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 11:11 AM on July 20, 2018
Also as a start, I will nth what other people stated (i.e., start a friendship, hang out on a regular basis, do not relay any information you find out with your parents).
But I do have something different to add to this part of your question:
...Part of the problem is I have never talked to him about what my parents did as being abusive, and I don't know if he sees it that way or not. I guess part of me is still afraid he'll disagree with me and then tell my parents that I said they're abusive...
You can still have the conversation, but have it in a more nuanced way. For example, at age X, I felt X. This is what happened to me at home [give an example]. But you remove comments such as whether you conclude that it was abusive. He can listen to what you experienced, what you felt, and make his own conclusion.
If he is depressed or going through something similar, I do think a conversation might help (assuming that you work at building up a friendship first). Mainly because he would realize it is okay to be vulnerable/say how you feel based on what you stated (and he might see similarities). Also, there is a significant difference between relationships in childhood vs. adulthood, and that type of conversation might help him realize that, too.
Also nthing that you could state how you would never repeat what he tells you (per the advice from another poster above) so that he realized that it might be safe to disclose and discuss things with you.
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 11:11 AM on July 20, 2018
Best answer: Yeah, I wouldn't try to have "a conversation" with him at this point. It's not the kind of thing you can usually do without some kind of relationship to build on. So if you are interested in building a closer relationship with him, do that: if you live nearby, see if you can go hang out sometimes, do activities or go to shows or something, and have discussions about things other than his private life. Let him into your own life, too - you can't ask for openness from someone without being open to them yourself. You might eventually get to the point where he'd want to talk with you. Or you might just be a positive relationship in his life, which is helpful in itself.
What about your younger brother? You might want to also work on having a relationship with him, both because it would be weird to only focus on one of them and for the same reasons you're worried about the brother in this question.
posted by trig at 11:20 AM on July 20, 2018
What about your younger brother? You might want to also work on having a relationship with him, both because it would be weird to only focus on one of them and for the same reasons you're worried about the brother in this question.
posted by trig at 11:20 AM on July 20, 2018
What about a text something like "hi there. Mom said she thinks you're depressed and that I should reach out. As I recall, she's not always the world's biggest expert on all this. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know and say 'hey whatsup.' It's been a long time since I've seen you. Has Spot eaten any more of your shirts lately?"
posted by salvia at 12:59 PM on July 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by salvia at 12:59 PM on July 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
After while, maybe see if he'll get lunch with you sometime. You can develop your own tradition. Maybe you do lunch at Denny's on the first Sunday of the month. Something to get him out of the house so you can connect with him away from parental influence.
posted by hydra77 at 10:00 AM on July 20, 2018 [16 favorites]