Is there any culture in Phoenix?

February 8, 2006 2:52 PM

Through circumstances semi-within and semi-without of my control, I may find myself moving to Phoenix, AZ soon. Am I gonna hate it? Alt-culture / mass transit / theatre . . . . do these things exist in Phoenix?

The few times I’ve visited there, it seems to be endless strip-malls and traffic and big-box retailers . . . . .and nothing else! Oh yeah, and somebody decided to build it directly on the surface of the sun.

I’m currently living in Salt Lake City, not exactly a cultural Mecca, but there is some decent theatre here, I live close to the light-rail train so I don’t have to drive much, and there are quite a few alternative-spirituality-type groups around thriving like mushrooms in the shadow of the LDS corporate office building. (If you check out the link, note that the left side of the building has a matching “globe” etching. Then, spend a few moments contemplating the patriarchal nature of the religion. Been living here over 15 years and it still makes me giggle.)

My questions:

1. Anybody know of or have any experience with any alternative spirituality things in Phoenix ? Anything along the Buddhist / Zen / Unitarian axis would be cool.
2. Where is the best area to live, assuming I will be attending school and working and won’t have a lot of money (renting an apartment)? Any hipster enclaves? (I’m guessing Tempe based on the info I found in a previous question to AskMeta.) I’m the bookish/geek sort, so coffee-shops and other places where you can pay a small loitering fee and hang around for hours are good.
3. Although I’m not much involved with the gay community and am afraid that they are going to revoke my membership card at any moment, if anybody has any info on gay-friendliness/unfriendliness aspects of the city, please share.
4. Theatre? Symphony? Etc.
5. Cusine / Dining?
6. Is the public transit any good?

Feel free to share any other info you might have on living, surviving, and thriving in the city of sun.

posted by Zendogg to grab bag (23 comments total)

First of all, everyone's going to tell you that public transit in Phoenix is awful. They're right, but within Tempe, it's a little better. Getting around the larger Valley by bus would be a nightmare, though. If you're attending ASU, the school gives out free bus passes, too. But you really need a car to get in between the enclaves of cool stuff. Tempe has a lovely downtown with a great coffee shop (Mill's End), so I would suggest trying to live in the student areas southwest of the university.
posted by gokart4xmas at 3:00 PM on February 8, 2006

Always bring a sweater. Seriously.
When it's 125' outside, it's 60' inside.
posted by clh at 3:02 PM on February 8, 2006

You need to live either in Tempe or mid-town Phoenix.

I live in the mid-town or 'historic' district and its pretty nice.. plenty of 'culture', stuff like that.

And.. to answer another of your questions.. its VERY gay friendly. I would say that upwards of 15% of my neighbors are gay couples.
posted by cowmix at 3:14 PM on February 8, 2006

I'll be attending gateway community college, gokart. Do you know if they give out free passes?

Note to self: dig sweater out of pile of winter clothes to donate to goodwill

Thanks for the info, cowmix.
posted by Zendogg at 3:19 PM on February 8, 2006

Yeah... in general, this ain't the hippest town in the world, but we've got a lot of cool stuff going on underneath the surface. I'm hardly a culture maven, but The Phoenix New Times is a good resource for upcoming events and whatnot. It'll at least get you started...

Personally, I really like living in Tempe, as living in my neck of the woods gives me access to the some of the area's larger parks to play in. Central Phoenix is pretty nice, too. That area in particular seems to be evolving quickly, with lots of artists and creative folks rehabbing the old neighborhoods.

'Course, this is The West and Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the US. We've got all manner of alternative spirituality going on 'round here... and if you need to recharge your juices, you can just jet up to the Energy Vortex in Sedona, about 2 hours north of here.

Other than that... remember to drink plenty of water. It was 80-something degrees here today and it's only going to get hotter.
posted by ph00dz at 4:02 PM on February 8, 2006

derail, but I've always thought the church office building overshadowing the temple was symbolic of the church bureaucracy overshadowing the doctrine . . .
posted by JekPorkins at 4:19 PM on February 8, 2006

Zendogg -- Don't go selling all your winter clothes just yet. While it does get to 115+ in the summer, some winter/evening nights can drop down to low-40's weather. When you're used to much warmer weather, that can feel quite cold. (I'm experiencing my first winter in South Korea, I would welcome temperatures in the 40's right about now. brrr!) I only spent last summer in Phoenix, and I am very much looking forward to moving there.
posted by lane73179 at 6:53 PM on February 8, 2006

Well, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask because [a.] the summers here are my favorite time, [b.] I have little time for culture or scene, and [c.] I'm a wage and brood slave who spends 99% of my week chasing kids, working, or driving. But FWIW I think Phoenix is heaven on earth.

For me, the sky is the perfect color blue and I've never experienced peace like that of the deep desert in the middle of summer. Yes, it does sometimes seem like everything is strip malls and block walls, but pick a point on the compass and drive for a bit and you'll see some pretty great stuff. People are generally wonderful.

Are you outdoorsy at all? If so then you're set... lakes, rivers, mountains, low desert, high desert, hiking, climbing, skiing, motor sports, hunting, fishing, blah blah blah. Any free second that I'm not working on the house or pretending to work at work, I'm out somewhere poking through ruins, photographing crazy terrain, or even just lying flat on my back enjoying the fact that there isn't a building for 30 miles in any direction.

Tempe is probably the place you want to be, although the glossy corporate monster is always about two steps away from devouring the last bits of personality it has managed to hold onto. There should be plenty of apartments or small houses to rent... may not be all that cheap now, but they're there. GCC is a little bit west of Tempe itself, and yeah the buses probably suck but they do at least exist. There should be lots of nooks and crannies for you to lay claim to.

As a giant metropolitan area, you should be able to find the alt.life you're looking for but it may not be right on your doorstep. Things are a bit country but all the gay people I've run into have been out and unafraid.

Hope your move goes well. I wish everyone could love this place as much as I do, but I hear enough complaining about the heat that I know better.

Oh, and if Cosmic Pizza is still open, then all your cuisine wishes can be fulfilled under one roof.
posted by BruceL at 7:35 PM on February 8, 2006

I'm mostly content with our mass transit system. Additionally, light rail construction should be finished in a few years.

I kind of hate this city otherwise, but I guess that's mostly just because I've never traveled anywhere else.

Tempe is definitely the closest you'll get to any culture around here.
posted by jimmy at 7:56 PM on February 8, 2006

I was born and raised in Phoenix, but now I live in Manhattan. I love Phoenix, but my tastes sound very different from yours.

I don't know much about the alt/hipster-scene, but if it exists in the Phoenix area, Tempe would be the place. I do know two cool record shops in Tempe from my punk rocker days - Eastside and Stinkweeds.

Dining in Phoenix and Scottsdale in particular is very, very good in my opinion. The area is a resort destination (for golf, mostly) and the resorts and restaurants built around this industry are top notch. Downtown Scottsdale has plenty of funky yuppie restaurants as does Tempe to a lesser extent. Downtown Phoenix is trying to develop in the same vein. Both downtown Scottsdale and Phoenix have very nice theater/symphony facilities, but I can't vouch for the quality of what goes on in those buildings.

The point I'd make overall is that Phoenix has some great dining, nightlife and culture if you're an upper-middle class yuppie. That describes me and my friends, so I love the place. That doesn't sound like you, so I say this only for posterity.
posted by mullacc at 8:14 PM on February 8, 2006

I've (Liz) lived in Phoenix for 12 years, and two of those most recent I've been living in Tempe. I currently attend ASU. Phoenix is "ok", it doesn't have much of a cultural identity, but you'll be sure to find a niche somewhere. Tempe is probably where you most want to live, that is, if you don't intend on living in a cookie cutter neighborhood.

1. Spirituallity. I don't know much about many alternative religions (as I am an atheist and John is an atheistic-Unitarian), but there is a UU church at Ray and Kyrene, in Chandler (which is maybe 15 minutes from downtown Tempe) Tempe has the widest variety of alternative religious outlets, especially around campus. Sedona, as mentioned before, is supposedly a very spiritual place with vortices and such. Tucson, which is a short 1 1/2 drive from Phoenix, is a little more "spiritual", again, especially around the college (UofA)

2. Tempe mainly. However, you can live elsewhere (out of college neighborhoods) because Tempe is very accessible. We live in Ahwatukee, which is 15 minutes from Tempe, 20 minutes from downtown and the airport. You will find coffee houses everywhere. 90% of them will be Starbucks, but there are a LOT of independent coffee houses. Also, if you are into hookah, within a 2 mile radius by ASU there are at least 3 hookah lounges (and others throughout the valley). As for bookstores, there is Changing Hands, Bookmans, and of course the usual chains.


3. I really don't know much about the gay community specifically, but it seems to be a very gay friendly area. Especially, again, the Tempe area. Though, Phoenix has its conservative people.

4. There is the Phoenix Symphony in downtown Phoenix. They recently remodeled Symphony Hall, and it is gorgeous. As students, we've gotten excellent rush seats for $10 (we've priced the section, and we saved $120+). They play the standard orchestral repertiore. There are a lot of small theaters, but the larger ones (Dodge theater, Gammage theater) mostly program "popular" shows. The Scottsdale Camelview 5 and the Valley Art theater in Tempe will show the film-festival style flicks.


5. Well, the dining is a mixed bag. Depending where you live, you'll either be surrounded by mom-and-pop restaurants (namely downtown Tempe) or chains. I'd say 80% of the dining in the Valley is chain. There are good restaraunts, but you'll have to go out and find them. We like Pizzeria Bianco (named best pizza in the nation by the New York Times) and Mrs. White's Golden Rule cafe (both in downtown Phoenix). You can get pretty good Mexican at most locations, downtown Tempe (The Mill Avenue area) has a lot of unique restaurants, but the area is slowly being taken over by more conventional chains. If you are a night owl, the options greatly decrease. In Scottsdale you'll find the majority of the clubs and upscale restaurants (we don't go to Scottsdale often so we can't give recommendations). If you're concerned about grocery shopping, there are Trader Joes (if you've never been to one, they are awesome), 'Pop' The Soda Shop for all your non-alcoholic needs, Fry's for you standard groceries (they are the cheapest in the Valley, a member of the Kroger family) and Sunflower Markets and Sprouts for veggies and organic needs.


6. As for transportation, there is a very large bus system, but it is mostly inconvenient (especially when you have to wait in the heat). The light rail, which will be completed soon, is essentially from downtown tempe, to the airport and downtown Phoenix. It won't be very large reaching for years. You need a car. You'll want a car, as biking, walking, blading, etc. can be unbearable 4-6 months of the year.

If you have any more questions, John or I would be glad to help out.
posted by lizjohn at 12:41 AM on February 9, 2006

I left my appendix in Phoenix, in 1996. I was very impressed by the level of care I recieved at the Good Samaritan hospital. From me, that is an amazing endoresment.

Alas, I visited Phoenix first in 1973. I can not reconcile the two times as being the same place.
posted by Goofyy at 12:59 AM on February 9, 2006

Thanks everyone for all the excellent info, and XTRA THANX to Liz and John for answering questions I hadn't even thought to ask (cinema and groceries). Overall, I feel that there is hope. Armed with this info and perhaps a good dose of BruceL's attitude, it sounds like Phoenix could be a lil' slice O paradise, new and improved, buy now and get 30% more Sprawl, free! =)
posted by Zendogg at 1:02 AM on February 9, 2006

lol, that's an interesting momento to leave behind, Goofyy. If I see it while I'm there, I'll send it your regards.
posted by Zendogg at 1:05 AM on February 9, 2006

perhaps I shouldn't laugh. note to self: appendix removal=not that funny.
posted by Zendogg at 1:06 AM on February 9, 2006

I used to live in Phoenix, but grew up in Portland, Oregon, and currently live there, so I started reading responses but decided to post a reply without reading all of them.

1. Phoenix itself I don't remember as being very alt-friendly though I left in 2000. However, there are some really crazy/cool enclaves of people in the small towns out in the desert. If you don't need contact with that community daily, this will probably work for you.

2. Cheapest rent I knew of was in north Phoenix, but you don't want to live there unless you are over 65 or trying to escape the law. Tempe is fairly cool, Mill Ave near ASU being the main attraction, but Mesa or Chandler areas are pretty close to Tempe and obscenely cheaper. Be prepared for endless apartment housing tracts. I's never seen complexes so big until I moved to AZ.

3. Gay-friendly/unfriendly I'm not the best to answer. Most of the kids I went to college (ASU) with were far more intolerant than I was used to growing up in Portland, but ironically there are more gay bashing incidents here than I remember taking place in Phoenix.

4. Not much of a theater go-er, but I recall there was a pretty decent symphony and several theater productions going around ASU at any given time. Fairly good art/museum spaces in Tempe/Scottsdale as well.

5. I would put Phoenix dining a bit below Portland, but that is my personal taste. Lots of fantastic restaurants, but I don't remember as many small, out-of-the-way places being talked about. Not bad but not exceptional.

6. Public transit is the worst I've seen anywhere in the country, actually. My friend relied on the bus to get to work, and generally it was a 1-2 hour commute to go approximately 7 miles, with 3 transfers. He could have walked faster, but no one walks in Phoenix. I recall getting stares from people in cars when I first visited, and then I realized why when I got back to my hotel and my forehead was burned. Not sunburned, but actual burn from being out in late July. If you haven't been in 120+ temperatures, it's frightening how bad it can be for you.

That being said, I had a lot of fun when I lived there and did not move back to Portland by choice. I did, however miss real grass and trees, and it was a culture shock to move to AZ in the first place. It's a resort mentality, as tough all the citizens have created a place outside of the normal pressures of a city. It's too hot and dry for normal people to live and yet they do. It's sunny a crazy amount of the time and drove me up the wall when there was 100 days without precipitation (or clouds). None of their resources actually come from where they live, it's all imported (water, wood, etc.) so most people don't give a crap about whats going on. I remember hearing about an local election for the first time on the news the day of the election. I suppose its a lot like any city, the more you have to spend, or the more passionate you are about life, the better your time spent there will be. Good luck with the move and definitely bring sweaters/jackets, you'd be surprised how quickly 45 can seem awfully cold.
posted by efalk at 3:23 AM on February 9, 2006

First off, an absolute hell-yes to anyone who knows about Mrs. White's Golden Rule Cafe. OMG, crazy. (Except that they're not open for dinner.)

And while Pizzeria Bianco is a great theory, they have in excess of a 2 hour wait, especially on weekends.

Anyway, nobody seemed to mention that Tempe's last mayor was openly gay. While Tucson is slightly more gay-friendly, Tempe's good times for the gay man (or lady), as opposed to the Mormon-infested Gilbert area (where I happen to reside.)

The great thing about the suburbs out here, and something that's important to remember is that they're all very close to each other. Tempe borders Mesa and Chandler, along with Phoenix. If you have your own vehicle, it's not terribly bad. My girlfriend is on campus at ASU and I'm in Gilbert, about 20 minutes away. It's not terrible, as most my friends are in Mesa as well.

Point being, if you're willing to drive a bit (which it appears you might not be) then things are just fine wherever you choose, in the 20-mile radius from ASU or Gateway.

Mill Ave. is Arizona's interpretation of the Gaslamp district in San Diego. It's a few blocks that borders ASU and the giant Tempe Town Lake. They have all sorts of festivals, events, and fun things, good coffee places, decent dining, clubs and bookstores and a Harkins, among other things. Broadway shows come in to Gammage (ASU) a lot, and Phoenix Symphony is just as the commenter above said.

Dining is fun here as well. There are a ton of great places if you're willing to look a little. For ultra-class, ritzy things, you'll look to Scottsdale, and overpay. For great Chinese, there's the basic chain places like Pei Wei and P.F. Chang's, but there's also this cozy place called Tott's Asian Diner, on McClintock & Baseline. (Or Guadalupe...) It's amazing food and cheap.

There's plenty of mexican food, but I hate mexican food as a rule, so I can't help you there. Italian, my favorite is Rigatony's, in Chandler—affordable, cozy, authentic, not a chain.

Mass transit is sort of a joke. Don't expect to be able to just grab a bus and be on the other side of town in 20. Things are disjointed, there's traffic, and the busses aren't so wildly used. ASU area has the Flash busses, which is campus-wide (and the surrounding few miles, including all of Mill) and they don't check for passes on it. Light rail many are assuming to be a complete joke, and many are probably right. The city doesn't function that way.

Downtown Phoenix is a 15-20 minute drive from Tempe/ASU. Phoenix in certain spaces is pleasant and rich. Scottsdale is uber rich. Gilbert is rich-but-we-don't-like-to-spend-it. Chandler is a mix, but more culturally available. Mesa is something of the dark horse. Certain spots are BIG crime magnets (also true of a large portion of bad areas of Phoenix) and you should avoid them. If your apartment is less than $500 for a two-bedroom, you need to be very concerned about the crime rates.

Ph00dz says to remember to drink lots of water. You won't have to. It'll become just a natural thing. You'll probably want a place with a filtration system, or you'll be buying lots of filtered water. Phoenix area water tables are somewhat shallow and not the best quality of water. (Reverse Osmosis is wonderful. Brita is a cheap alternative.)

I absolutely hate the lack of green here. That's why I travel a lot. It's a neat change at first, but it wears on you to barrel down the 60 and see nothing but pink rocks and desert flora on the sides.

The freeway system here is getting markedly better, so long as you're not doing the 101 during rush hour. The 60 is a nice stretch that'll connect you to the 10 and it's being expanded in the far east Mesa/Gilbert areas to accomodate six lanes.

Certain areas in Chandler and Mesa are close enough (by car) that you absolutely shouldn't rule them out, from the Tempe/Mill/ASU mix. I forget where Gateway is, but just pay attention to crime things. The variance between income levels is DRASTIC from one mile to the next in certain areas (especially, once again, Mesa) and this accounts for some bad bleed over in crime rates.

I'm also down with answering questions and such. Also, it hasn't rained here in 90+ days now. We miss it.
posted by disillusioned at 4:30 AM on February 9, 2006

Tempe has a lovely downtown with a great coffee shop (Mill's End)
posted by gokart4xmas at 3:00 PM PST on February 8

It's always bizarre when someone on the internet mentions a tiny place where you spent literally years. Highly recommended.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:05 AM on February 9, 2006

I'm in Gilbert, AZ too - and I found the area lacking a bit on the cultural side when I moved here 3 years ago. Still, I like it very much. The people are nice, I love my job and my house, and I think the weather is great (but heed the caveats posted above).

Out where I am, it's 100% suburbia... but as other's have said you can escape to just about any type of terrain you could imagine within a couple hours. I'm constantly amazed at how many people (living elsewhere) only associate AZ with the desert and the heat when AZ is so much more. I just bought a house 2 hours away in Pine, AZ and it looks more like where I grew up (central MA) than Gilbert. If you like the outdoors, I can't imagine that too many places offer the diverse opportunities that are available around here.

I can't really add much else - the other responders did a great job of capturing what it's like out here. It's not for everybody, but the place really does have a lot to offer. I think you'll like it.

Good luck, and add me to the list of resources available if questions come up. Email is in my profile.
posted by 27 at 9:41 AM on February 9, 2006

--It's sunny a crazy amount of the time and drove me up the wall when there was 100 days without precipitation (or clouds).

lol, that reminded me of a friend of mine who lived in Phoenix during the late 70's, early 80's. He was detoxing from having had too much fun in the Disco era, in a deep depression, and said he would wake up every morning in his little studio apartment, look out the window and say "Great. Another day in fucking paradise!"

--If you have your own vehicle, it's not terribly bad

I do. I think it's just going to be a mental adjustment getting used to relying on it exclusively. Salt Lake used to have pretty crappy transit before they bought the '02 Olympics and figured they had better do something to make it look like a real city. Thing is, it worked. I'm really attached to being able to take public transit when I can . . .it makes me feel more connected to the city, as opposed to driving around in my own self-contained little bubble.

Anyway, thanks again to all! I'm going to be taking a little exploratory trip down there sometime this month, and Mrs. White's and Mill's End are for sure on my list, as well as any of the other suggestions I have time to fit in.

Anybody know if Pizzeria Bianco accepts reservations? I'm not down with Pizza in theory.
posted by Zendogg at 10:59 AM on February 9, 2006

Pizzeria Bianco does not accept reservations. Your best bet is going on a weeknight (closed on monday) and 1 of 2 options.

1. Get there 45 minutes before they open (4:15 or so). This way you will be in the first seating at 5pm (when they open). Just call it a late lunch. The bar next door (bar bianco, I believe it is called) opens at 4 so you can grab a drink and an appertizer and chill on the tables they have in front. However, there is no formal sign in, list or order. Just note who came after you and get in your proper place in line when it forms (about 10 til).

2. Get there later in the evening, 8:30-9:30. It will maybe be a 30-45 minute wait, depending on how many in your party and if you are willing to sit at the (small) bar. There is a host(test), so put your name down and feel free to head over to the bar next door. I recommend the beer they have on tape called "Hopknot" (not 100% sure on spelling). It's brewed locally, in Tempe, at Four Peaks brewery. Very good. Almost grapefruity.


As for the food, there are appetizers and pizzas. Everything besides the salads are cooked in the woodburning oven you can see in the corner of the room. I recommend the antipasto (the ingredients change every time) and the Wise Guy pizza (with fennel sausage, roasted onion and smoked mozzarella), or the Margarita pizza. The fennel sausage is very good. The pizzas are small, one person could finish it off. We usually get an appetizer and one pizza and that's exactly enough for the two of us. If you like woodfired, thin crust, gourmet pizza, then you will definitely like this pizza. I wouldn't say that you need to be a pizza lover to enjoy it, it's not like most pizza.


However, as much as I enjoy the food, I don't really dig the crowd. One review calls it "preppy pizza for preppy people", and they are pretty much right. It's an richer crowd (as you will be able to tell from the parking lot) and it's also an older crowd (especially if you go early). One evening we ate early before a symphony performance and we saw maybe 15 people from the restaurant at the concert (I believe it was Shostakovich's 5th), if that says anything. Not very alt. We still have fun, though. (I'm only saying so much because we went 2 nights ago and it's all fresh in my mind)


If waits and pizza aren't your thing, then don't bother. But if you are interested in the slightest, I say bother and just anticipate a pleasant wait with your beverage of choice.
posted by lizjohn at 2:06 PM on February 9, 2006

Dear 27—
Please stop stalking me.
My family just bought a house in Strawberry.
Also, get out of my zip code.
Kthx. ;-)

Pizzeria Bianco claims to accept reservations from groups at least six in size.
posted by disillusioned at 2:38 PM on February 9, 2006

Wow - that is odd... Small world.
posted by 27 at 3:21 PM on February 9, 2006