B-a-b-y-s-t-e-p-s?
June 14, 2018 1:21 AM Subscribe
Can you spell out for me the actual, practical babysteps I need to do to get my head from where I am now to where I need to be?
I’ve been in therapy (weekly sessions) for the past 6-7 months. It’s been working really well, also thanks to the encouragement you guys have given me in my previous questions. We’ve been working on my self-esteem issues, trust issues, etc. and I have seen concrete improvements.
What I am still working on is that there is a (large) part of me that is exactly like the person asking this question. (I hope it's ok to link to other peoples questions?) To sum up: I'm constantly looking for unconditional approval from pseudo-parental figures, filled (ha!) with a bottomless hunger, that nothing seems to sate. I also understand that craving and trying to regain the unconditional love I never received as a child is not the way forward, and I would like to stop.
I have done lots of journaling, thinking and have talked about it with my therapist some (it’s still the thing that is hardest for me to talk about). But what usually happens is this: we concur I need to sate my needs myself, e.g. the need for approval, so I get “homework” to write myself the approving words I would like to hear. I do this (earnestly!) and when I read it through, I do feel a little better. And then I think: “Well, I bet my therapist will be proud of me, wait until she hears this!”
Which – argh. It *always* happens like this, and it’s so frustrating. Whatever I do, no matter how much I consciously decide to change, I always end up in the same old mindset – wishing, longing, hoping. I’ve done a lot to improve my mental health, for *me*, but all those successes are (almost involuntarily) followed by wondering if now I’m finally good enough to get the love that I crave. I can’t seem to make myself consider anything else but this the ultimate price / goal.
My first question is: is this simply a question of patience, or can I do more? If yes, this is where I would like your concrete, actual, practical babystep instructions on what I can DO.
“You need to look for acceptance within yourself”-kind of instructions don’t help me where I am right now, I need “look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself you love yourself”-level stuff.
As always, thank you for reading & for your help :)
I’ve been in therapy (weekly sessions) for the past 6-7 months. It’s been working really well, also thanks to the encouragement you guys have given me in my previous questions. We’ve been working on my self-esteem issues, trust issues, etc. and I have seen concrete improvements.
What I am still working on is that there is a (large) part of me that is exactly like the person asking this question. (I hope it's ok to link to other peoples questions?) To sum up: I'm constantly looking for unconditional approval from pseudo-parental figures, filled (ha!) with a bottomless hunger, that nothing seems to sate. I also understand that craving and trying to regain the unconditional love I never received as a child is not the way forward, and I would like to stop.
I have done lots of journaling, thinking and have talked about it with my therapist some (it’s still the thing that is hardest for me to talk about). But what usually happens is this: we concur I need to sate my needs myself, e.g. the need for approval, so I get “homework” to write myself the approving words I would like to hear. I do this (earnestly!) and when I read it through, I do feel a little better. And then I think: “Well, I bet my therapist will be proud of me, wait until she hears this!”
Which – argh. It *always* happens like this, and it’s so frustrating. Whatever I do, no matter how much I consciously decide to change, I always end up in the same old mindset – wishing, longing, hoping. I’ve done a lot to improve my mental health, for *me*, but all those successes are (almost involuntarily) followed by wondering if now I’m finally good enough to get the love that I crave. I can’t seem to make myself consider anything else but this the ultimate price / goal.
My first question is: is this simply a question of patience, or can I do more? If yes, this is where I would like your concrete, actual, practical babystep instructions on what I can DO.
“You need to look for acceptance within yourself”-kind of instructions don’t help me where I am right now, I need “look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself you love yourself”-level stuff.
As always, thank you for reading & for your help :)
There is therapy to help you specifically do this. It's called cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and it teaches you how to specifically to replace your wishing, longing, hoping for acceptance thoughts with other thoughts and behaviors. It's specific, thought by thought stuff.
By the way, recognizing that you just had a momentary thought that you bet your therapist will be proud of you IS a baby step, not a failure. The next baby step might be to quickly remind yourself that you really are making progress and are proud of yourself too.
posted by Gnella at 3:11 AM on June 14, 2018 [13 favorites]
By the way, recognizing that you just had a momentary thought that you bet your therapist will be proud of you IS a baby step, not a failure. The next baby step might be to quickly remind yourself that you really are making progress and are proud of yourself too.
posted by Gnella at 3:11 AM on June 14, 2018 [13 favorites]
I think it might be good to practice a bit of patience with yourself, as well as all the other stuff you’re learning? Concretely, when you hear yourself think “I bet my therapist will be proud of me—ARGH”, can you reply to that “ARGH” with something more gentle? “Oops, well, I see I still do that sometimes!” might do.
All of us have these tendencies / inner voices / occasional thoughts that we no longer endorse with our adult minds but which bubble up from former versions of ourselves. You are certainly not alone in not having your inner dialogue completely under your conscious control. Rather, you are doing really well in acknowledging these voices consciously, when they emerge, and not allowing them to unconsciously dominate you; I don’t think an expectation of completely erasing them from your mind, forever, is particularly realistic or fair on you. Perhaps it may be worth telling your therapist about your frustration at not being able to perfectly remake yourself in this way? She may have more concrete advice on how you might work on replacing that sense of frustration with something more patient and compassionate towards yourself.
posted by Aravis76 at 4:25 AM on June 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
All of us have these tendencies / inner voices / occasional thoughts that we no longer endorse with our adult minds but which bubble up from former versions of ourselves. You are certainly not alone in not having your inner dialogue completely under your conscious control. Rather, you are doing really well in acknowledging these voices consciously, when they emerge, and not allowing them to unconsciously dominate you; I don’t think an expectation of completely erasing them from your mind, forever, is particularly realistic or fair on you. Perhaps it may be worth telling your therapist about your frustration at not being able to perfectly remake yourself in this way? She may have more concrete advice on how you might work on replacing that sense of frustration with something more patient and compassionate towards yourself.
posted by Aravis76 at 4:25 AM on June 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Maybe it would help your thinking to turn this on its head. How do you love people? Can you make repairs by loving other people unconditionally?
I like this idea. I haven’t struggled with exactly your problem, any_name_in_a_storm, but I did at one point in my life depend too much on praise from teachers, and coped suboptimally when I no longer had it; and I did find that giving guidance to others, and connecting with junior people from the opposite direction, filled some of that need. As always, ymmv. Good luck finding ways to get what you need.
posted by eirias at 6:49 AM on June 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
I like this idea. I haven’t struggled with exactly your problem, any_name_in_a_storm, but I did at one point in my life depend too much on praise from teachers, and coped suboptimally when I no longer had it; and I did find that giving guidance to others, and connecting with junior people from the opposite direction, filled some of that need. As always, ymmv. Good luck finding ways to get what you need.
posted by eirias at 6:49 AM on June 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
By the way, recognizing that you just had a momentary thought that you bet your therapist will be proud of you IS a baby step, not a failure.
Yes! I'm a therapist, and I'm someone who wants approval from authority figures (though not to a degree that's creating problems for me right now), and I find myself doing the same thing when I'm in therapy. I try to just recognize when it's happening and use it to help spur me forward -- "OK, she'd be proud I did that, but she'd be EVEN PROUDER if I was proud of myself for doing it, so I'm going to be proud of myself (...which will make her even prouder of me...)" I mean, it's not really solving the core issue, but it's moving toward it. And I think working toward making one's therapist -- whose job is to keep the client's best interests at the forefront, not any of their agendas -- proud is definitely a good "training wheels" step in getting away from seeking outside approval. "I'm going to make someone else proud by paying attention to my own needs and taking care of myself" is a good intermediate place to work toward.
All that said, if it were me, I would try to talk to my therapist about this issue and get her take on it. I suspect that she'll help you see it's part of the learning curve. (And, seriously, as both a therapist and client, I think that "wanting approval from the therapist" is about 80% of the motivating force for people making positive changes in their lives. The therapist needs to be super-careful that the client's not substituting the therapist's judgment for their own, that they're really helping the client develop his or her own authentic voice, but a skilled therapist can help you use that need in ways that will diminish it.)
posted by lazuli at 7:04 AM on June 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes! I'm a therapist, and I'm someone who wants approval from authority figures (though not to a degree that's creating problems for me right now), and I find myself doing the same thing when I'm in therapy. I try to just recognize when it's happening and use it to help spur me forward -- "OK, she'd be proud I did that, but she'd be EVEN PROUDER if I was proud of myself for doing it, so I'm going to be proud of myself (...which will make her even prouder of me...)" I mean, it's not really solving the core issue, but it's moving toward it. And I think working toward making one's therapist -- whose job is to keep the client's best interests at the forefront, not any of their agendas -- proud is definitely a good "training wheels" step in getting away from seeking outside approval. "I'm going to make someone else proud by paying attention to my own needs and taking care of myself" is a good intermediate place to work toward.
All that said, if it were me, I would try to talk to my therapist about this issue and get her take on it. I suspect that she'll help you see it's part of the learning curve. (And, seriously, as both a therapist and client, I think that "wanting approval from the therapist" is about 80% of the motivating force for people making positive changes in their lives. The therapist needs to be super-careful that the client's not substituting the therapist's judgment for their own, that they're really helping the client develop his or her own authentic voice, but a skilled therapist can help you use that need in ways that will diminish it.)
posted by lazuli at 7:04 AM on June 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Can you do a journaling or visualization exercise where you encounter "younger you" and give that young person the love and approval that they didn't get back then? It might help to run through different ages/memories and see how you'd help that kid now.
posted by ldthomps at 8:39 AM on June 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ldthomps at 8:39 AM on June 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you can find out what good thing a behavior is doing FOR you, sometimes it makes it easier to stop doing it.
It's kind of odd, because you'd think that an undesirable behavior is all bad, but everything serves a purpose. You're doing this for a reason. You're getting some kind of payoff.
I would journal and try to talk to the part of myself that craves external approval. Ask it how it is helping you and see what it says.
I did this about a different issue, being kind of a perfectionist/helper type and this is how it went: "OK, I want to be little miss helpful and anticipate everything for everybody, why? Well, then they will like me obvs. I mean I guess they like me already. Or do they? Who knows? I guess they do, I am mostly harmless anyway. But doing stuff for people gives me a place in the group." Bing, bing bing! That's it! I'm trying to buy my place in the group by doing things for people.
So the symptom was this anxiety of being a perfectionist and trying to remember everything for everybody, but the underlying issue was that I don't really feel like I fit in to any group.
If I just focused on eradicating the symptom I would not have been successful. That part of me has been working hard on my behalf for a long time. It "knows" I don't really fit in. So when I resist the behavior that part of me just digs in its heels and does its thing harder. Once I bring the underlying issue to conscious awareness, though, it becomes easier to convince that part of myself that its services are no longer required. And it's important to thank it for its service! It helped you along the way! It is not some evil flaw that needs to be eradicated. It's more like heavy wool socks that you wore all winter. They were very useful during the winter. But now that spring is here, it's ok to take them off.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:56 AM on June 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
It's kind of odd, because you'd think that an undesirable behavior is all bad, but everything serves a purpose. You're doing this for a reason. You're getting some kind of payoff.
I would journal and try to talk to the part of myself that craves external approval. Ask it how it is helping you and see what it says.
I did this about a different issue, being kind of a perfectionist/helper type and this is how it went: "OK, I want to be little miss helpful and anticipate everything for everybody, why? Well, then they will like me obvs. I mean I guess they like me already. Or do they? Who knows? I guess they do, I am mostly harmless anyway. But doing stuff for people gives me a place in the group." Bing, bing bing! That's it! I'm trying to buy my place in the group by doing things for people.
So the symptom was this anxiety of being a perfectionist and trying to remember everything for everybody, but the underlying issue was that I don't really feel like I fit in to any group.
If I just focused on eradicating the symptom I would not have been successful. That part of me has been working hard on my behalf for a long time. It "knows" I don't really fit in. So when I resist the behavior that part of me just digs in its heels and does its thing harder. Once I bring the underlying issue to conscious awareness, though, it becomes easier to convince that part of myself that its services are no longer required. And it's important to thank it for its service! It helped you along the way! It is not some evil flaw that needs to be eradicated. It's more like heavy wool socks that you wore all winter. They were very useful during the winter. But now that spring is here, it's ok to take them off.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:56 AM on June 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
I feel you. I'm working on this issue myself.
The way I try to get approval from other people is by hiding feelings and thoughts which I think they may not like. I try to present a "perfect" personality: kind, helpful, "nice," etc. If I make a mistake and let the bad parts out, I judge myself harshly. I've been doing this for so long that I often don't realize that I'm doing it.
My first step was to become aware of it more often. I had to work on both becoming aware of my actual feelings/thoughts and also becoming aware that I was hiding them. The next step was to share some of these potentially unacceptable thoughts and feelings with a safe person (my therapist) and talking about how that went. Now I'm working on letting these thoughts/feelings out with other people.
I'm not sure if this helps you, because you may be doing the approval-seeking differently. But I think the fact that you're becoming aware of it is a huge and important step. When you catch it happening, instead of criticizing it (or in addition to criticizing it if you can't stop the criticism), maybe take a deep breath and just notice it. Notice the criticism too. Then just offer yourself some kindness, e.g., "Oh, I see that happened again, and I criticized myself for it. I'm suffering right now. I'm doing the best I can. I deserve to offer myself understanding and kindness."
If this approach resonates with you, check out selfcompassion.org.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:39 AM on June 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
The way I try to get approval from other people is by hiding feelings and thoughts which I think they may not like. I try to present a "perfect" personality: kind, helpful, "nice," etc. If I make a mistake and let the bad parts out, I judge myself harshly. I've been doing this for so long that I often don't realize that I'm doing it.
My first step was to become aware of it more often. I had to work on both becoming aware of my actual feelings/thoughts and also becoming aware that I was hiding them. The next step was to share some of these potentially unacceptable thoughts and feelings with a safe person (my therapist) and talking about how that went. Now I'm working on letting these thoughts/feelings out with other people.
I'm not sure if this helps you, because you may be doing the approval-seeking differently. But I think the fact that you're becoming aware of it is a huge and important step. When you catch it happening, instead of criticizing it (or in addition to criticizing it if you can't stop the criticism), maybe take a deep breath and just notice it. Notice the criticism too. Then just offer yourself some kindness, e.g., "Oh, I see that happened again, and I criticized myself for it. I'm suffering right now. I'm doing the best I can. I deserve to offer myself understanding and kindness."
If this approach resonates with you, check out selfcompassion.org.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:39 AM on June 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
And then I think: “Well, I bet my therapist will be proud of me, wait until she hears this!”
Can you stop yourself when you have a thought like this and add to it to try to replace it? Something like, "No, wait, I'm proud of myself." Eventually you can get to a place where you're just telling yourself you're proud of something.
posted by Margalo Epps at 12:22 PM on June 14, 2018
Can you stop yourself when you have a thought like this and add to it to try to replace it? Something like, "No, wait, I'm proud of myself." Eventually you can get to a place where you're just telling yourself you're proud of something.
posted by Margalo Epps at 12:22 PM on June 14, 2018
Firstly I would say not to be too hard on yourself. You will never be perfect. I struggled with this a bit when I was getting counselling for some anxiety and depression, I wanted to "conquer" it, that's what I do with challenges after all. It's not very healthy framing, and I was setting myself up for failure in some respects.
Sometime after I had concluded my therapy, when I started feeling anxious /sad about stuff I got pretty down. "nothing is every gonna change, I have no control of my thoughts" etc etc
One thing that's helped me, I don't know if it will help you, was comparing this stuff to my stomach condition. I have an autoimmune disease that flares up sometimes. There are many things I can do to to minimise flare ups, ranging from medication, to diet, to stress levels etc. However, flare ups are inevitable with the life I lead, so I need to make sure when they do happen I prioritise my wellbeing, and just kind of "gut it out", knowing they will pass.
By thinking about my anxiety and other feelings like my stomach condition, I reframe my thinking for focus on duration, intensity and frequency.
Knowing I'm doing all the right things helps me realise that the frequency of these feelings has gone down, and the duration is often just for a night or whatever.
Knowing it will pass when I not feeling great, I don't beat myself up for "failing", and can just focus on being kind to myself, knowing I'll probably feel better in the morning. It's really helped me depersonalise my feelings in a way
Best of luck, hang in there.
posted by smoke at 4:00 PM on June 14, 2018
Sometime after I had concluded my therapy, when I started feeling anxious /sad about stuff I got pretty down. "nothing is every gonna change, I have no control of my thoughts" etc etc
One thing that's helped me, I don't know if it will help you, was comparing this stuff to my stomach condition. I have an autoimmune disease that flares up sometimes. There are many things I can do to to minimise flare ups, ranging from medication, to diet, to stress levels etc. However, flare ups are inevitable with the life I lead, so I need to make sure when they do happen I prioritise my wellbeing, and just kind of "gut it out", knowing they will pass.
By thinking about my anxiety and other feelings like my stomach condition, I reframe my thinking for focus on duration, intensity and frequency.
Knowing I'm doing all the right things helps me realise that the frequency of these feelings has gone down, and the duration is often just for a night or whatever.
Knowing it will pass when I not feeling great, I don't beat myself up for "failing", and can just focus on being kind to myself, knowing I'll probably feel better in the morning. It's really helped me depersonalise my feelings in a way
Best of luck, hang in there.
posted by smoke at 4:00 PM on June 14, 2018
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posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:06 AM on June 14, 2018 [3 favorites]