Friend Says Not right Now, Possibly Later for Relationship
June 10, 2018 2:16 AM Subscribe
My friend says that he's going through issues that make him not want a relationship right now, but possibly in the future. These issues even seem to be getting in the way of us meeting as friends, though he says he really wants to. Should I stay friends with him?
Content note: one slightly graphic sexual detail
A while ago, I met a guy on a dating site who I’ll call Jack. We instant messaged for a while and he told me about a dream about a naked woman who looked like me sitting on his lap talking to him and keeping him company. I like him so much that I was intrigued rather than creeped out about this. I thought, “He wants me!” lol. I said, “How would you like some company in real life?” “He said, “We should really talk and get to know each more first, but company would be nice.” We’ve been having hilarious and very emotionally intimate conversations all day, every day. At one point, we watched our first movie together via webcam, which I thought was a date. But later he said that my flirting was making him uncomfortable because he was just looking for friends at the moment, and he didn’t say anything sooner because he was afraid that I’d want to stop talking to him. He said that a relationship between us isn’t off the table in the future, but that he isn’t sure about certain things in his life right now, like what area he’ll end up living, and he’d be heartbroken if we started dating and then he had to say that he doesn’t know where we stand now because he moved to a far away state. He said that if something is to happen, it’ll come from friendship, and that while he likes sex, attraction is very mental for him because he’s on the asexual spectrum. He moves very slowly with people. He usually doesn’t meet them in person, but when he does, he waits months to meet them, because he’s a private person, but he’s willing to try to meet me sooner because he thinks that I’m an awesome person.He currently lives with his abusive mom and her abusive boyfriend. He has no income and his mom doesn’t let him have money or a car, keeping him trapped there.
He’s thinking about going to live with his uncle and grandma in Hawaii to escape them, but his grandma is a hoarder, so it doesn’t seem to me like that would be any better :/ I’ve suggested some things to him like getting a therapist, calling a hotline, going to a shelter or group home, asking the churches in town for help, applying for disability and then getting a low income apartment, etc. but he shot down everything I suggested, except for places that offer free bus passes. He turned down my suggestions because he’s too private to talk to a therapist or someone like that and he couldn’t deal with having other people around, like being in a unit close to other units in an apartment complex or sleeping in a shelter with other people in the room. Even though he doesn’t want disability, he doesn’t want to get a job working for someone else, either. He wants to run his own businesses, such as a thing online that would be similar to Netflix. I told him about an organization in town that helps low income people finance their businesses and offers them support. All he said was, “I know about them.” I asked, “How do you plan to finance your businesses?” and he said, “I’ll figure it out.” He wants to start his own community in a wooded area far out in the country either in Hawaii, if he goes there, or near a town that I’ll call Apple, about 100 miles away from our current city that I’ll call Banana in the state of Washington. He invited me to join his community when he gets it going. It would be exciting to be part of that, but I’m not sure if I could cope with such a huge life change. It would be even harder for me to do it if he wanted to be platonic even then than if he wanted to be partners. Since if he winds up near Apple, he plans to come into Banana sometimes to run errands, maybe it would be possible for me to continue living in the city in Banana while he has his cozy country life and we could do visits, having a semi long distance relationship indefinitely. I’ve heard of couples living apart, even somewhat far apart. If he goes to Hawaii, if we’re still in contact in a year or so, I’d even be willing to move there to be with him, if it’s just the possible distance that’s making him hesitate.
He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me. I once told him that I was thinking about ending the friendship because I was having a hard time dealing with my feelings for him, but he said that he was upset because he feels like we’re connecting. Making plans to meet in person has been difficult. He said that he really wants to, but that his mom makes it really hard, but that he promises to follow through. She constantly yells at him and demands to know where he goes, etc. He’s counting on her to buy the land for his woods community, but I’m worried about him counting on an abusive person and letting her be involved in this community where she can mistreat the other members, too. He doesn’t have enough to eat, though frankly I think that may be at least in part because he uses his food stamps on expensive organic food, such as $8 raw milk, due to his interest in spirituality and nature. He was more detailed about his plans for how to do the woods community than his businesses, but I still don’t understand his thought process or the logistics very well. I have a bad feeling that he won’t get anywhere with his goals and that, more importantly, he won’t get into a stable living situation. My therapist thinks that he returns my feelings and that it’s okay for me to hope that we’ll date in the future, since he seems to want to leave the door open for that. I’m wondering if I should stay friends with him. If I stay friends with him, I might have to keep watching him suffer a bad life if he doesn’t do anything constructive about his problems. Also, it would be hard on me to cope with my feelings for him. However, he might decide to date me, and even if he doesn’t, he’s still a good person to be friends with: patient, supportive, contemplative, funny. If I move on, I’ll miss his good qualities, but I won’t have to worry about watching his life crumble from inaction or wish that I could flirt with him when we’re talking, etc. What should I do?
Content note: one slightly graphic sexual detail
A while ago, I met a guy on a dating site who I’ll call Jack. We instant messaged for a while and he told me about a dream about a naked woman who looked like me sitting on his lap talking to him and keeping him company. I like him so much that I was intrigued rather than creeped out about this. I thought, “He wants me!” lol. I said, “How would you like some company in real life?” “He said, “We should really talk and get to know each more first, but company would be nice.” We’ve been having hilarious and very emotionally intimate conversations all day, every day. At one point, we watched our first movie together via webcam, which I thought was a date. But later he said that my flirting was making him uncomfortable because he was just looking for friends at the moment, and he didn’t say anything sooner because he was afraid that I’d want to stop talking to him. He said that a relationship between us isn’t off the table in the future, but that he isn’t sure about certain things in his life right now, like what area he’ll end up living, and he’d be heartbroken if we started dating and then he had to say that he doesn’t know where we stand now because he moved to a far away state. He said that if something is to happen, it’ll come from friendship, and that while he likes sex, attraction is very mental for him because he’s on the asexual spectrum. He moves very slowly with people. He usually doesn’t meet them in person, but when he does, he waits months to meet them, because he’s a private person, but he’s willing to try to meet me sooner because he thinks that I’m an awesome person.He currently lives with his abusive mom and her abusive boyfriend. He has no income and his mom doesn’t let him have money or a car, keeping him trapped there.
He’s thinking about going to live with his uncle and grandma in Hawaii to escape them, but his grandma is a hoarder, so it doesn’t seem to me like that would be any better :/ I’ve suggested some things to him like getting a therapist, calling a hotline, going to a shelter or group home, asking the churches in town for help, applying for disability and then getting a low income apartment, etc. but he shot down everything I suggested, except for places that offer free bus passes. He turned down my suggestions because he’s too private to talk to a therapist or someone like that and he couldn’t deal with having other people around, like being in a unit close to other units in an apartment complex or sleeping in a shelter with other people in the room. Even though he doesn’t want disability, he doesn’t want to get a job working for someone else, either. He wants to run his own businesses, such as a thing online that would be similar to Netflix. I told him about an organization in town that helps low income people finance their businesses and offers them support. All he said was, “I know about them.” I asked, “How do you plan to finance your businesses?” and he said, “I’ll figure it out.” He wants to start his own community in a wooded area far out in the country either in Hawaii, if he goes there, or near a town that I’ll call Apple, about 100 miles away from our current city that I’ll call Banana in the state of Washington. He invited me to join his community when he gets it going. It would be exciting to be part of that, but I’m not sure if I could cope with such a huge life change. It would be even harder for me to do it if he wanted to be platonic even then than if he wanted to be partners. Since if he winds up near Apple, he plans to come into Banana sometimes to run errands, maybe it would be possible for me to continue living in the city in Banana while he has his cozy country life and we could do visits, having a semi long distance relationship indefinitely. I’ve heard of couples living apart, even somewhat far apart. If he goes to Hawaii, if we’re still in contact in a year or so, I’d even be willing to move there to be with him, if it’s just the possible distance that’s making him hesitate.
He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me. I once told him that I was thinking about ending the friendship because I was having a hard time dealing with my feelings for him, but he said that he was upset because he feels like we’re connecting. Making plans to meet in person has been difficult. He said that he really wants to, but that his mom makes it really hard, but that he promises to follow through. She constantly yells at him and demands to know where he goes, etc. He’s counting on her to buy the land for his woods community, but I’m worried about him counting on an abusive person and letting her be involved in this community where she can mistreat the other members, too. He doesn’t have enough to eat, though frankly I think that may be at least in part because he uses his food stamps on expensive organic food, such as $8 raw milk, due to his interest in spirituality and nature. He was more detailed about his plans for how to do the woods community than his businesses, but I still don’t understand his thought process or the logistics very well. I have a bad feeling that he won’t get anywhere with his goals and that, more importantly, he won’t get into a stable living situation. My therapist thinks that he returns my feelings and that it’s okay for me to hope that we’ll date in the future, since he seems to want to leave the door open for that. I’m wondering if I should stay friends with him. If I stay friends with him, I might have to keep watching him suffer a bad life if he doesn’t do anything constructive about his problems. Also, it would be hard on me to cope with my feelings for him. However, he might decide to date me, and even if he doesn’t, he’s still a good person to be friends with: patient, supportive, contemplative, funny. If I move on, I’ll miss his good qualities, but I won’t have to worry about watching his life crumble from inaction or wish that I could flirt with him when we’re talking, etc. What should I do?
What should I do?
Move on.
I think he's looking for somebody to help him believe that keeping on being stuck is OK. I don't think you want to help him be stuck. You're certainly not obligated to.
posted by flabdablet at 3:55 AM on June 10, 2018 [26 favorites]
Move on.
I think he's looking for somebody to help him believe that keeping on being stuck is OK. I don't think you want to help him be stuck. You're certainly not obligated to.
posted by flabdablet at 3:55 AM on June 10, 2018 [26 favorites]
I don't think this person is going to change his life or meet his goals within any kind of timeline that works for you, and you are overly invested in his weird plans and already forgetting to take your own plans into account- you talk about HIS goals but haven't mentioned yours. Before you met him, your goals probably weren't to move to a woodland with strangers, right? This is unhealthy for you. Move along. Get in touch with your own goals and find a guy whose personal goals ALIGN with yours, rather than a guy whose goals overpower yours.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 4:00 AM on June 10, 2018 [72 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 4:00 AM on June 10, 2018 [72 favorites]
What's jumping off for me is how this new person is not interested in doing anything that makes you happy, and setting aside every other thing about this guy, who needs a person like that in their life? Sometimes it's hard to see this when we're in the thick of things, but you've been super helpful and supportive and done all the right things to encourage a friendship, and all this person is doing is shutting you down with excuse after excuse. That type of behavior--even if he does decide he wants to meet--will not get better. This guy is the star of his narrative and he is not going to find any room for you. I think you'd be best served by wishing him well in what sounds like a pretty unfortunate life, and get out there and meet people who will want to hang with you, because you're awesome.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:06 AM on June 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:06 AM on June 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
I think there's a lot of daydreaming and fantasy on show here.
Please think hard about what he's telling you with his actions as well as his words, or rather his inaction. You've given him some sound advice and some ways forward, which he's "shot down"- I don't think he's ready to commit to anything that would expose him to real life risks such as starting a business or indeed a romantic relationship.
He complains about his mom and how she keeps him trapped but she's not actually stopping him from getting on a bus or train and coming to see you. And he thinks she's going to fund his commune land purchase, which sounds quite generous and freeing. Please think about the mixed signals he's sending you and whether in reality you think you could trust someone emotionally who is so reluctant to deal with the normal, everyday facts of life such as earning a living, dealing with relationships and setting realistic targets.
On preview - what others have said much more succinctly.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 4:08 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
Please think hard about what he's telling you with his actions as well as his words, or rather his inaction. You've given him some sound advice and some ways forward, which he's "shot down"- I don't think he's ready to commit to anything that would expose him to real life risks such as starting a business or indeed a romantic relationship.
He complains about his mom and how she keeps him trapped but she's not actually stopping him from getting on a bus or train and coming to see you. And he thinks she's going to fund his commune land purchase, which sounds quite generous and freeing. Please think about the mixed signals he's sending you and whether in reality you think you could trust someone emotionally who is so reluctant to deal with the normal, everyday facts of life such as earning a living, dealing with relationships and setting realistic targets.
On preview - what others have said much more succinctly.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 4:08 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
This dude is a walking red flag. You are worthy of a full relationship with someone who is available. I would probably advise that you cut ties and try to work out why you're interested in this by going to therapy (this is metafilter, after all).
posted by sockermom at 4:22 AM on June 10, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by sockermom at 4:22 AM on June 10, 2018 [17 favorites]
Also this dude sounds to me like he has a wife or girlfriend and you're a side fantasy. He's not being honest with you, I'm sure of that.
Also you mentioned your therapist and I missed it the first time. But your therapist doesn't sound good for you. Maybe find a new therapist too.
posted by sockermom at 4:26 AM on June 10, 2018 [30 favorites]
Also you mentioned your therapist and I missed it the first time. But your therapist doesn't sound good for you. Maybe find a new therapist too.
posted by sockermom at 4:26 AM on June 10, 2018 [30 favorites]
My advice would be to let this one go.
As previous commenters have said, this guy seems to be living in his head, and more than that, to enjoy living in his head. He has little life experience and little understanding of how things work in the 'real world', and doesn't seem to be thinking beyond the happily ever after portion of his fantasy. He's indulging himself by dreaming of how great things will be when the planets align and he gets everything he wants, whilst ignoring his day-to-day reality and anything that smacks of effort to actually make these dreams come to fruition.
Not to mention it sounds like you've not even met this guy in real life, yet you're making some big potential plans based on him. He tells you he dreamt about you naked yet chastises you because you're 'flirty' in response (which, if not outright gaslighty, is at least impressively tone-deaf). This sounds like a guy who is rather immature and is looking for all the emotional labour benefits of a relationship without reciprocation — someone who will provide an emotional connection and support his fantasy of his ideal future while he makes no efforts to reciprocate or even make his dreams a reality.
On preview: yea. Walking red flag, this one.
posted by myotahapea at 4:44 AM on June 10, 2018 [28 favorites]
As previous commenters have said, this guy seems to be living in his head, and more than that, to enjoy living in his head. He has little life experience and little understanding of how things work in the 'real world', and doesn't seem to be thinking beyond the happily ever after portion of his fantasy. He's indulging himself by dreaming of how great things will be when the planets align and he gets everything he wants, whilst ignoring his day-to-day reality and anything that smacks of effort to actually make these dreams come to fruition.
Not to mention it sounds like you've not even met this guy in real life, yet you're making some big potential plans based on him. He tells you he dreamt about you naked yet chastises you because you're 'flirty' in response (which, if not outright gaslighty, is at least impressively tone-deaf). This sounds like a guy who is rather immature and is looking for all the emotional labour benefits of a relationship without reciprocation — someone who will provide an emotional connection and support his fantasy of his ideal future while he makes no efforts to reciprocate or even make his dreams a reality.
On preview: yea. Walking red flag, this one.
posted by myotahapea at 4:44 AM on June 10, 2018 [28 favorites]
There are a zillion better fish in the sea. Why waste your time with this guy? He doesn't sound very mature or interested in you.
posted by Slinga at 4:45 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 4:45 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
There are a few too many excuses on show here. Something is hinky and it isn’t you. My advice, hard as it is, is to walk away. Leave a door open for him to come see you in person, maybe, but make that a prerequisite for contact. I suspect he’ll never show.
posted by frumiousb at 5:02 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 5:02 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
This guys is a red-flag parade and he doesn't seem to have what it takes to make you happy (including the desire to make you happy). Adjust your focus and energy to yourself and to romantic interests who are able to meet you halfway - who want to meet you halfway and don't need loads of persuasion to even consider it. At the very least, take a step back from the friendship and put that energy into your friendships and therapy and dating other people.
posted by bunderful at 5:17 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 5:17 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
What's going on for you that any of this seems appealing? His life sounds terrifying and he plainly states sex and affection are not available from him, there is nothing for you here.
Close the door and walk away. You're not friends, you're an online distraction for this person, at best. His investment in you is so low, it's practically non-existent.
Look up "withholding" in relationships, it's how you were hooked in.
posted by jbenben at 6:45 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
Close the door and walk away. You're not friends, you're an online distraction for this person, at best. His investment in you is so low, it's practically non-existent.
Look up "withholding" in relationships, it's how you were hooked in.
posted by jbenben at 6:45 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
The answers you're getting are very kind but I want to point out the level of nonsense this guy is giving you:
* lives at home, can't leave (if he's under 18, then sure)
* can't work (if he's under 14, then sure)
* plan to leave is to go to HAWAII, but it's a hoarding situation so probably won't work
* other plan is start a commune. with no money.
*has not met you in person yet
* he doesn't meet people because he's so very private
*doesn't want a job but has a plan to run his own business
* is thinking he can do the commune IN HAWAII
* is saying--without having actually met you--a LDR may work, if he goes to Hawaii or some other place
* his mother, who is abusive and won't let him leave or get a job, will bankroll a commune.
Nothing here makes sense--I hope you see that. This guy is just completely delusional and he's seriously playing you and you need to drop him and step wayyy away from this.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:51 AM on June 10, 2018 [73 favorites]
* lives at home, can't leave (if he's under 18, then sure)
* can't work (if he's under 14, then sure)
* plan to leave is to go to HAWAII, but it's a hoarding situation so probably won't work
* other plan is start a commune. with no money.
*has not met you in person yet
* he doesn't meet people because he's so very private
*doesn't want a job but has a plan to run his own business
* is thinking he can do the commune IN HAWAII
* is saying--without having actually met you--a LDR may work, if he goes to Hawaii or some other place
* his mother, who is abusive and won't let him leave or get a job, will bankroll a commune.
Nothing here makes sense--I hope you see that. This guy is just completely delusional and he's seriously playing you and you need to drop him and step wayyy away from this.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:51 AM on June 10, 2018 [73 favorites]
First screaming red flag is that he won't meet you in person even for, like, a cup of coffee, or a walk, or something. That alone should tell you "run away." Everything else you write about him here is increasingly more horrifying. Even if you did start a relationship with him (which isn't going to happen, he's either living in a fantasy world or lying to you or both), a relationship with this person is a series of additional angst-ridden AskMe relationship questions waiting to happen. To answer your question "Should I stay friends with him?", no. God no. A world of no.
posted by tiger tiger at 7:07 AM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by tiger tiger at 7:07 AM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
This guy sounds like he likes to dream big and stay open to the possibilities. I'm wondering if (sorry) the possibility of dating you is one of the "someday" dreams that may not realistically come to pass?
Also, given that you're already wondering if his lack of practicality and action will make you worry about him, do you really want to date him? To me, some of what you describe sounds pretty dysfunctional (e.g., being too private to see a therapist, not being willing to live in an apartment), none of which alone are necessarily dysfunctional in a huge way, but which together start to form a big barrier to him overcoming his challenges. It sounds like it'll take awhile for things to change for him.
At most i'd focus just on the friendship side, but ideally, on moving on. Create space in your life for someone who comes to the table with the life skills to see you in person, get a job, live independently. I also think that this relationship is unworkable at such a high level that it could be worth considering why it's so appealing to you in the first place.
posted by salvia at 7:11 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, given that you're already wondering if his lack of practicality and action will make you worry about him, do you really want to date him? To me, some of what you describe sounds pretty dysfunctional (e.g., being too private to see a therapist, not being willing to live in an apartment), none of which alone are necessarily dysfunctional in a huge way, but which together start to form a big barrier to him overcoming his challenges. It sounds like it'll take awhile for things to change for him.
At most i'd focus just on the friendship side, but ideally, on moving on. Create space in your life for someone who comes to the table with the life skills to see you in person, get a job, live independently. I also think that this relationship is unworkable at such a high level that it could be worth considering why it's so appealing to you in the first place.
posted by salvia at 7:11 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Nothing here makes sense
Oh, it all makes sense all right - this is someone who dreams so big, so out there, that from the get go there will never be the right conditions to even START trying - that way he can never fail.
You are another brick in that wall. Walking away is the kindest thing for both of you.
posted by solotoro at 8:01 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh, it all makes sense all right - this is someone who dreams so big, so out there, that from the get go there will never be the right conditions to even START trying - that way he can never fail.
You are another brick in that wall. Walking away is the kindest thing for both of you.
posted by solotoro at 8:01 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
He's playing the Mysterious Stranger. I used to think this type of person was interesting (although, this guy even sounds too extreme for me). These people aren't actually interesting or worthy of your time. The nicest way to put it is that he is critically mentally ill and delusional. You cannot help him with that. He needs professional help and there is nothing you can do to get him that help. It sounds like he finds people on the internet to dump his emotions on until they get sick of him and stop communicating with him. There are many of these guys out there on the internet. I find them exceedingly tiresome. Some can even be quite charming when they want you to stick around or need something.
I think you need to cut off all contact with him and move on. I can almost guarantee that if you stop communicating with him that in a couple of months you'll wonder why you were ever interested in him.
Also, as a general statement, if someone says, "I don't want to date you now, but maybe later," listen to only the first part. When someone is truly interested, that person will make it work despite obstacles.
posted by parakeetdog at 8:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
I think you need to cut off all contact with him and move on. I can almost guarantee that if you stop communicating with him that in a couple of months you'll wonder why you were ever interested in him.
Also, as a general statement, if someone says, "I don't want to date you now, but maybe later," listen to only the first part. When someone is truly interested, that person will make it work despite obstacles.
posted by parakeetdog at 8:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
I agree with the responses along the line of noting all of his plans seem like fantasies that he has no real intent or ability to act on— including a relationship with you.
What’s up in your life that you’re okay being swept up in this?
Look, if you like the guy’s online company, I get that, but I think you’ll be happier if you focus on yourself. What do you want?
I don’t think you can count on him for anything. Sometimes people we can’t count on are still good company, so we take them realistically— we say, this is a person I’ll interact with online sometimes, but not a person I can build a future with. Would you be okay with that? If you want more than that, you’ll be happier if you move on because he’ll keep reeling you in with Big Plans that’ll never, ever materialize. Meanwhile your own dreams will dry up and blow away.
posted by kapers at 8:36 AM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
What’s up in your life that you’re okay being swept up in this?
Look, if you like the guy’s online company, I get that, but I think you’ll be happier if you focus on yourself. What do you want?
I don’t think you can count on him for anything. Sometimes people we can’t count on are still good company, so we take them realistically— we say, this is a person I’ll interact with online sometimes, but not a person I can build a future with. Would you be okay with that? If you want more than that, you’ll be happier if you move on because he’ll keep reeling you in with Big Plans that’ll never, ever materialize. Meanwhile your own dreams will dry up and blow away.
posted by kapers at 8:36 AM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
This guy sounds like really bad news. If he’s an adult, he shouldn't just be depending on his mom. If he’s disabled, there are resources, but he’s not interested in doing anything except fantasizing about a commune that he expects his mom (!) to pay for. Starting something like a commune is a huge amount of work. Even The Farm in Tennessee, which has been going because of committed, hard-working people for decades, is having problems. This is assuming he’s being honest and isn’t some married guy who wants to play around with you. Please drop this guy. There is absolutely zero indication that he’ll be a good partner for you. To an outside observer, he sounds seriously awful.
There are a number of men in the world who are really good at getting kind women to feel sorry for them and want to help them. I dated one of these in high school. He was really good at blaming everyone else for his problems, and I totally bought into it at the time. That’s who this guy is.
posted by FencingGal at 8:55 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
There are a number of men in the world who are really good at getting kind women to feel sorry for them and want to help them. I dated one of these in high school. He was really good at blaming everyone else for his problems, and I totally bought into it at the time. That’s who this guy is.
posted by FencingGal at 8:55 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Jack's story is just so out there that I'm inclined to think that this is an extremely elaborate catfish. At this point I'm hoping that it is true so that you don't have to deal with the additional pain of having been lied to. Either way, you are being *extremely* manipulated.
The guy has skills in that he knows how to charm. He laid the groundwork for you to be interested in him, then tested the waters by telling you about that sexy dream. You responded positively, so he kept going. Picking up on that thread, you ask to meet IRL, and he immediately pulls back. That creates more intrigue for you. Then he pulls that bullshit line about your flirting making him uncomfortable, which is why I thought him telling you about the sexy dream was a test to see how you'd respond. Then he goes on to say that he can't meet because he moves slowly with them, he's private, he's on the asexual spectrum, he's living in an abusive household... So he has all these barriers, BUT you're so special that he's willing to give you a breadcrumb of himself (potentially meeting earlier than he usually would). He basically knows how to give you just enough to keep you on the hook. This is called breadcrumbing. Like I said, he has skills.
You, being very practical and level-headed, suggest a bunch of concrete actions he can take and he has excuses for all them, except the free bus passes which he doesn't have to do any heavy lifting for. Then he starts in on wanting to run his own businesses and that's where my head starts to spin. Talk about going down the rabbit hole - he wants to start a commune and his offer is to have a semi LDR. He's spinning this lovely (it actually isn't) fantasy and for whatever reason, you're also choosing to be swept up in it. Why is that? I think it's because he knows how to make you feel special: "He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me." When you try to put down healthy boundaries (ending things) he knows how to reel you back in by saying he feels like you're connecting.
I still don’t understand his thought process or the logistics very well.
There is nothing to understand here because it's all smoke and mirrors.
I have a bad feeling that he won’t get anywhere with his goals and that, more importantly, he won’t get into a stable living situation.
Listen to your gut! Listen to your gut!!!! Please, please, please honour what your gut is telling you!!!
My therapist thinks that he returns my feelings and that it’s okay for me to hope that we’ll date in the future, since he seems to want to leave the door open for that.
And FFS, get a new therapist. They think it's ok for you to hope? I can't even articulate how awful it is that your therapist said this.
If I move on, I’ll miss his good qualities
There will be others who have his good qualities, AND who will actually spend time with you IRL, platonically or romantically. Please believe this.
In sum, you DO have good gut instincts about this, but, you're getting swept up in this for whatever reason. You MUST listen to yourself because that person is really looking out for you; there's another part of you that just wants to believe the fantasy. Pull that person back into reality; don't let her hijack your life! (Sorry for being melodramatic)
Next steps: message him one last time to say something like, "It's been great getting to know you, but I don't want to continue. Please don't contact me. Take care." And then block. You must block after sending that otherwise he's going to use his skills to reel you back in again. For the sake of loving yourself and doing what's healthy FOR YOU, end this and block and delete everywhere.
posted by foxjacket at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2018 [18 favorites]
The guy has skills in that he knows how to charm. He laid the groundwork for you to be interested in him, then tested the waters by telling you about that sexy dream. You responded positively, so he kept going. Picking up on that thread, you ask to meet IRL, and he immediately pulls back. That creates more intrigue for you. Then he pulls that bullshit line about your flirting making him uncomfortable, which is why I thought him telling you about the sexy dream was a test to see how you'd respond. Then he goes on to say that he can't meet because he moves slowly with them, he's private, he's on the asexual spectrum, he's living in an abusive household... So he has all these barriers, BUT you're so special that he's willing to give you a breadcrumb of himself (potentially meeting earlier than he usually would). He basically knows how to give you just enough to keep you on the hook. This is called breadcrumbing. Like I said, he has skills.
You, being very practical and level-headed, suggest a bunch of concrete actions he can take and he has excuses for all them, except the free bus passes which he doesn't have to do any heavy lifting for. Then he starts in on wanting to run his own businesses and that's where my head starts to spin. Talk about going down the rabbit hole - he wants to start a commune and his offer is to have a semi LDR. He's spinning this lovely (it actually isn't) fantasy and for whatever reason, you're also choosing to be swept up in it. Why is that? I think it's because he knows how to make you feel special: "He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me." When you try to put down healthy boundaries (ending things) he knows how to reel you back in by saying he feels like you're connecting.
I still don’t understand his thought process or the logistics very well.
There is nothing to understand here because it's all smoke and mirrors.
I have a bad feeling that he won’t get anywhere with his goals and that, more importantly, he won’t get into a stable living situation.
Listen to your gut! Listen to your gut!!!! Please, please, please honour what your gut is telling you!!!
My therapist thinks that he returns my feelings and that it’s okay for me to hope that we’ll date in the future, since he seems to want to leave the door open for that.
And FFS, get a new therapist. They think it's ok for you to hope? I can't even articulate how awful it is that your therapist said this.
If I move on, I’ll miss his good qualities
There will be others who have his good qualities, AND who will actually spend time with you IRL, platonically or romantically. Please believe this.
In sum, you DO have good gut instincts about this, but, you're getting swept up in this for whatever reason. You MUST listen to yourself because that person is really looking out for you; there's another part of you that just wants to believe the fantasy. Pull that person back into reality; don't let her hijack your life! (Sorry for being melodramatic)
Next steps: message him one last time to say something like, "It's been great getting to know you, but I don't want to continue. Please don't contact me. Take care." And then block. You must block after sending that otherwise he's going to use his skills to reel you back in again. For the sake of loving yourself and doing what's healthy FOR YOU, end this and block and delete everywhere.
posted by foxjacket at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2018 [18 favorites]
This guy lives in a situation with two abusive people and refuses to get any help.
He is seriously mentally ill and refuses to get help, and has told himself that it's because he is "private". He needs to get help, and nothing else in his life is going to happen until he does that.
He's "on the asexual spectrum" and keeps vacillating about whether he wants a relationship, but early on told you about a sexual fantasy - this guy has poor boundaries and is happy to just say whatever is on his mind, and then gets upset when you think it means something.
He refuses to build his so-called business plan.
He won't meet you, at all, ever, but wants you to talk to him all the time. This is one of those guys who think everything is about him. The only place you could have in his life is fawning support, because he shuts you down every time you express any kind of need.
He wants your emotional support. He does not want to reciprocate. He has no adult goals. He does not want to meet you. He does not care that he's stringing you along. He's fine with expressing his desires (the early fantasy about you naked on his lap) but does not want to deal with yours. Nothing about this is going to go well for you.
Cut contact and move along. There are tons of better people out there who will want to do things like meet you for coffee, and who have their shit together.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
He is seriously mentally ill and refuses to get help, and has told himself that it's because he is "private". He needs to get help, and nothing else in his life is going to happen until he does that.
He's "on the asexual spectrum" and keeps vacillating about whether he wants a relationship, but early on told you about a sexual fantasy - this guy has poor boundaries and is happy to just say whatever is on his mind, and then gets upset when you think it means something.
He refuses to build his so-called business plan.
He won't meet you, at all, ever, but wants you to talk to him all the time. This is one of those guys who think everything is about him. The only place you could have in his life is fawning support, because he shuts you down every time you express any kind of need.
He wants your emotional support. He does not want to reciprocate. He has no adult goals. He does not want to meet you. He does not care that he's stringing you along. He's fine with expressing his desires (the early fantasy about you naked on his lap) but does not want to deal with yours. Nothing about this is going to go well for you.
Cut contact and move along. There are tons of better people out there who will want to do things like meet you for coffee, and who have their shit together.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
Sorry, but my take on this is that the best-case scenario is that this guy is depressed and troubled and wants to continue using you for emotional labour and support in coping with his difficult situation. That is sad but by continuing to play that role, not only are you not going to get the supporting companionship all of us deserve from a relationship, you risk being emotionally drained AND keeping him stuck. He needs to get to the point where he is uncomfortable enough to do something about his life, and providing him a pressure valve that allows him to stay in that situation is not good for either of you.
An even worse scenario is that he is grooming you for some kind of scam or fraud. I would not be entirely surprised if he starts to hint about how he just needs a little money to make that move to Hawaii or start that business...
And the very worst-case scenario is that the two are not mutually exclusive.
In short, there' s nothing positive for you here. Keep moving and look for someone who shares your interests and values, and who genuinely wants to connect with another human. They are out there.
posted by rpfields at 10:09 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
An even worse scenario is that he is grooming you for some kind of scam or fraud. I would not be entirely surprised if he starts to hint about how he just needs a little money to make that move to Hawaii or start that business...
And the very worst-case scenario is that the two are not mutually exclusive.
In short, there' s nothing positive for you here. Keep moving and look for someone who shares your interests and values, and who genuinely wants to connect with another human. They are out there.
posted by rpfields at 10:09 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Everything foxjacket wrote is probably the truth, but it still works even if this is not a catfish situation....
Look. It's not real. This is not a relationship and the things you like about him are qualities you, personally, possess.
I'm going to take the extra step of inviting you to engage in some sort of group practice situation - yoga, meditation, sound bath, even hiking groups on meet-up. Get out there regularly. Block this dude and get outside and practice something fulfilling but easy. You can do this. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Look. It's not real. This is not a relationship and the things you like about him are qualities you, personally, possess.
I'm going to take the extra step of inviting you to engage in some sort of group practice situation - yoga, meditation, sound bath, even hiking groups on meet-up. Get out there regularly. Block this dude and get outside and practice something fulfilling but easy. You can do this. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Even without all of this other stuff, if someone is not functional at the moment you meet them, like--you really have to go into any potential relationship assuming that this is the best things will ever be, right? You can't just walk into it thinking he's going to get employed and independent if he isn't right now. Even if he was interested in a relationship, the relationship you would be having would be with someone who is disinterested in actually holding a job or living in a situation where he has to pay his own bills. Even if he was interested in pursuing more, the more you would be pursuing is his living in your house, not working and on the computer all day, instead of his living with his mother or grandmother. Is that your dream? Because that's the best this gets. Guys like this do not found the next Netflix.
You can't save him, and he isn't going to save himself, so you need to move on. You're going to keep worrying about him for awhile after you go no-contact, but after awhile it will be less, and then less than that, and eventually it'll get easier.
As far as the therapist goes, did you really give your therapist all of the details you gave us here on the internet? That sort of answer kind of scans like your therapist knows about the "friends but not more than that yet but we talk all the time" kind of stuff but not necessarily the "he doesn't work, all of his plans to ever do anything are wildly unrealistic, doesn't even think he could manage living in an apartment complex but wants to start a commune" stuff. If the therapist knows all that? New therapist. But otherwise, I think you need to be a lot more frank with your therapist if you want your therapist to actually give you useful help.
posted by Sequence at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
You can't save him, and he isn't going to save himself, so you need to move on. You're going to keep worrying about him for awhile after you go no-contact, but after awhile it will be less, and then less than that, and eventually it'll get easier.
As far as the therapist goes, did you really give your therapist all of the details you gave us here on the internet? That sort of answer kind of scans like your therapist knows about the "friends but not more than that yet but we talk all the time" kind of stuff but not necessarily the "he doesn't work, all of his plans to ever do anything are wildly unrealistic, doesn't even think he could manage living in an apartment complex but wants to start a commune" stuff. If the therapist knows all that? New therapist. But otherwise, I think you need to be a lot more frank with your therapist if you want your therapist to actually give you useful help.
posted by Sequence at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
I've been swept up in an online relationship in a similar kind of "caretaker" role before, and your description is raising all sort of red flags for me. It felt so good to be helping someone through what seemed to be a really tough time in their life, but it turned out I was being lied to about a number of things, some of which were really disturbing (feel free to pm me for more detail than I'm comfortable posting publicly). They may very well have been dealing with shitty circumstances and abuse, but ultimately I realized I could not be the person to fix those things.
In your shoes I'd tread very carefully around this person, and make sure that what you are getting from the relationship is more than a sense that someone needs and depends on you. It's a flattering feeling but not by itself a good basis for a healthy romantic relationship.
posted by augustimagination at 11:54 AM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
In your shoes I'd tread very carefully around this person, and make sure that what you are getting from the relationship is more than a sense that someone needs and depends on you. It's a flattering feeling but not by itself a good basis for a healthy romantic relationship.
posted by augustimagination at 11:54 AM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but this person isn't going to make a community in the woods. He isn't going to make an online business that generates a living income. If you jump forward 20 years he will probably still be living with his mother.
It sounds like he is living in a fantasy world. He is using you to shore it up.
The whole situation is extremely unhealthy.
(Also, how old are you both? I get the sense that you are very young?)
posted by thereader at 12:14 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds like he is living in a fantasy world. He is using you to shore it up.
The whole situation is extremely unhealthy.
(Also, how old are you both? I get the sense that you are very young?)
posted by thereader at 12:14 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree with everyone above. I would suggest letting this person go and focusing wholeheartedly on yourself. Be kind to yourself, and listen to your gut when it tells you you’re in an unhealthy situation.
posted by sucre at 3:20 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by sucre at 3:20 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, he can’t get it together to move out of his mom’s house and he’s going to start the next Netflix? Maybe he’ll eventually mature and get his life together, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Give your energy to your own dreams.
posted by FencingGal at 5:19 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 5:19 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Please, please, please run very fast away from this person. You are not viewing this concretely. I am guilty of that, too! This person has nothing to offer you. He is intentionally and actively manipulating you. Nothing will come of this.
He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me.
He is manipulating you so you feel special. Instead of offering concrete things that make you happy, he's relying on these feelings to keep you interested in him.
I’ve suggested some things to him ... but he shot down everything I suggested, except for places that offer free bus passes. He turned down my suggestions ...
He turned you down because he does not actually want help. He wants to be a victim.
Even though he doesn’t want disability, he doesn’t want to get a job working for someone else, either. He wants to run his own businesses, such as a thing online that would be similar to Netflix.
He is living in a fantasy. He comes off as the kind of person who blames everyone else for his mistakes and yet takes no responsibility
I asked, “How do you plan to finance your businesses?” and he said, “I’ll figure it out.”
I'm telling you, he has no actual desire to change or advance or try. He will not succeed.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:32 AM on June 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
He says that he doesn’t normally open up to people, but feels like he can with me.
He is manipulating you so you feel special. Instead of offering concrete things that make you happy, he's relying on these feelings to keep you interested in him.
I’ve suggested some things to him ... but he shot down everything I suggested, except for places that offer free bus passes. He turned down my suggestions ...
He turned you down because he does not actually want help. He wants to be a victim.
Even though he doesn’t want disability, he doesn’t want to get a job working for someone else, either. He wants to run his own businesses, such as a thing online that would be similar to Netflix.
He is living in a fantasy. He comes off as the kind of person who blames everyone else for his mistakes and yet takes no responsibility
I asked, “How do you plan to finance your businesses?” and he said, “I’ll figure it out.”
I'm telling you, he has no actual desire to change or advance or try. He will not succeed.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:32 AM on June 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
For whatever reason, his idea of a good time is stringing you along online.
This bad. Don't ever contact him again.
Seriously, why? What is the point?
He does not want to meet you. He does want long involved and entirely about him online and text conversations that he enjoys.
Run run run. He could be married, he could be crazy, he could be a decent person with mental health issues who is incapable of a relationship right now, he could be twin teenage girls who get a kick put of catfishing. Jack is not ready for real friendship or any kind of relationship with you.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:20 PM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
This bad. Don't ever contact him again.
Seriously, why? What is the point?
He does not want to meet you. He does want long involved and entirely about him online and text conversations that he enjoys.
Run run run. He could be married, he could be crazy, he could be a decent person with mental health issues who is incapable of a relationship right now, he could be twin teenage girls who get a kick put of catfishing. Jack is not ready for real friendship or any kind of relationship with you.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:20 PM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the reality check, everyone. I cut contact with Jack. It's true, I never wanted to go live in the woods. Maybe a house with a yard (still in the city) at the most. I'll look elsewhere for my partner. Someone:
- More realistic/practical, with sensible plans for getting the things they want out of life and willing to get professional help if they can't deal with their problems themselves
- Reasonably easy to make plans with
- Sends consistent signals, not mixed ones
These are things that I want in friends, too. Onward to other people :)
posted by Social Science Nerd at 4:16 PM on June 12, 2018 [14 favorites]
- More realistic/practical, with sensible plans for getting the things they want out of life and willing to get professional help if they can't deal with their problems themselves
- Reasonably easy to make plans with
- Sends consistent signals, not mixed ones
These are things that I want in friends, too. Onward to other people :)
posted by Social Science Nerd at 4:16 PM on June 12, 2018 [14 favorites]
Good for you! Reading this update made me really happy for you.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:58 PM on June 16, 2018
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:58 PM on June 16, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rd45 at 3:11 AM on June 10, 2018 [10 favorites]