Backup Heat for Snowy, Semi-Remote Areas
June 5, 2018 8:51 AM Subscribe
This is kind of a follow-up to this previous question, coming at it from a different angle: Link
Basically the conclusion in that thread was to use a natural gas generator to provide power to the electricity-requiring primary heating systems. For that asker's situation, that was definitely the right answer!
However, I want to re-ask the same thing for a somewhat different situation. Basically, my partner and I have a place in semi-rural Maine where there are no natural gas lines available. Instead, we have a propane tank with delivery service by a local company. This drives a pair of propane room heaters. Like a lot of modern heating devices, however, they require electricity to run the ignitors and blowers.
Currently, this is a three-season vacation home for us, but at some point we'll be staying here full time and overwintering. This means we'll need a source of backup heat for a potential worst-case scenario: power goes out in the middle of a snowstorm.
Average snowfall numbers for this region are about 5 feet a season, but we've had storms in the last couple of seasons that dropped over 6 feet at a single go. This makes us somewhat wary about the first option that comes to mind, namely getting one of those Generac standby units that can run on propane. If we do lose power, it's likely to be in a storm that buries the Generac, and I don't know that they're safe to operate in those conditions. But maybe we're overthinking things and it can run long enough even while buried for the snow to stop so I can go outside and shovel it out. My partner is also concerned about propane availability during a sustained power outage, and with both the generator and the heaters sucking up propane that concern is not too unreasonable, especially if the storm delays a regularly scheduled propane delivery.
My partner's idea is that she wants to get a small wood stove installed in a single room to use for backup. We're going to have an outdoor firepit, so we'll have other reasons to keep a wood stockpile anyway. And, of course, almost everybody around here has a side-gig selling camp wood, so it'll be easy to restock. But now we're talking about installing a chimney for a wood stove that won't be our primary heating source, and on top of that we'll have to keep a wood stockpile somewhere that it's accessible in the middle of a snowstorm (we have a mud room, so maybe there), and I've heard that just having a wood stove dramatically increases your home insurance premiums even if you don't use it. On top of which, I'm not sure how feasible it really is to keep enough logs around to maintain heat through a multiple-day power outage.
Is there a third possibility we're both missing? (I ruled out pellet stoves because it turns out those all need electricity to run, just like our propane heaters.) I also looked into battery backups for the propane heaters, but it seems like keeping enough batteries to run one for a multiple-day power outage could be pretty damned difficult.
Basically the conclusion in that thread was to use a natural gas generator to provide power to the electricity-requiring primary heating systems. For that asker's situation, that was definitely the right answer!
However, I want to re-ask the same thing for a somewhat different situation. Basically, my partner and I have a place in semi-rural Maine where there are no natural gas lines available. Instead, we have a propane tank with delivery service by a local company. This drives a pair of propane room heaters. Like a lot of modern heating devices, however, they require electricity to run the ignitors and blowers.
Currently, this is a three-season vacation home for us, but at some point we'll be staying here full time and overwintering. This means we'll need a source of backup heat for a potential worst-case scenario: power goes out in the middle of a snowstorm.
Average snowfall numbers for this region are about 5 feet a season, but we've had storms in the last couple of seasons that dropped over 6 feet at a single go. This makes us somewhat wary about the first option that comes to mind, namely getting one of those Generac standby units that can run on propane. If we do lose power, it's likely to be in a storm that buries the Generac, and I don't know that they're safe to operate in those conditions. But maybe we're overthinking things and it can run long enough even while buried for the snow to stop so I can go outside and shovel it out. My partner is also concerned about propane availability during a sustained power outage, and with both the generator and the heaters sucking up propane that concern is not too unreasonable, especially if the storm delays a regularly scheduled propane delivery.
My partner's idea is that she wants to get a small wood stove installed in a single room to use for backup. We're going to have an outdoor firepit, so we'll have other reasons to keep a wood stockpile anyway. And, of course, almost everybody around here has a side-gig selling camp wood, so it'll be easy to restock. But now we're talking about installing a chimney for a wood stove that won't be our primary heating source, and on top of that we'll have to keep a wood stockpile somewhere that it's accessible in the middle of a snowstorm (we have a mud room, so maybe there), and I've heard that just having a wood stove dramatically increases your home insurance premiums even if you don't use it. On top of which, I'm not sure how feasible it really is to keep enough logs around to maintain heat through a multiple-day power outage.
Is there a third possibility we're both missing? (I ruled out pellet stoves because it turns out those all need electricity to run, just like our propane heaters.) I also looked into battery backups for the propane heaters, but it seems like keeping enough batteries to run one for a multiple-day power outage could be pretty damned difficult.
Best answer: If we do lose power, it's likely to be in a storm that buries the Generac
Both options are decent. I'd be wary about punching a hole in the roof for a chimney it it were me but woodstoves are pretty easy otherwise and they can make a place toasty. You can go outside to shovel the Generac out if you need to (or the lean-to idea is good). Sure it snows a lot but usually you go out in a storm to do some sorts of maintenance, especially if your life depended on it. But I'm not totally sure why you couldn't get some smaller type of propane heater for emergencies that didn't require electricity? I'd assume that's what people have up there if they don't have wood stoves. I guess the thing to think about is whether you need electricity and heat (in which case: generator) or just heat (in which case: wood stove and just buy a bunch of wood at once and put it somewhere you can access it or start bringing some in when you hear a storm is coming). Do you have pipes that might freeze?
You seem to be acting like you will not go outside at all during a storm and my experience with New England snowstorms has been that going out to fetch wood or do a spot of showveling is usually pretty practical.
I've heard that just having a wood stove dramatically increases your home insurance premiums even if you don't use it.
This can be regional, call your insurance company and they can tell you.
posted by jessamyn at 9:36 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Both options are decent. I'd be wary about punching a hole in the roof for a chimney it it were me but woodstoves are pretty easy otherwise and they can make a place toasty. You can go outside to shovel the Generac out if you need to (or the lean-to idea is good). Sure it snows a lot but usually you go out in a storm to do some sorts of maintenance, especially if your life depended on it. But I'm not totally sure why you couldn't get some smaller type of propane heater for emergencies that didn't require electricity? I'd assume that's what people have up there if they don't have wood stoves. I guess the thing to think about is whether you need electricity and heat (in which case: generator) or just heat (in which case: wood stove and just buy a bunch of wood at once and put it somewhere you can access it or start bringing some in when you hear a storm is coming). Do you have pipes that might freeze?
You seem to be acting like you will not go outside at all during a storm and my experience with New England snowstorms has been that going out to fetch wood or do a spot of showveling is usually pretty practical.
I've heard that just having a wood stove dramatically increases your home insurance premiums even if you don't use it.
This can be regional, call your insurance company and they can tell you.
posted by jessamyn at 9:36 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I heat the main living areas in my home with two direct-vent propane stoves (they look like wood stoves). They require no electricity to run and they work with a standard thermostat you mount on the wall. They vent through the wall. The ones I have are made by Jotul. I have them specifically because they require no electricity. The basement has an Empire mounted on the wall that is much uglier but works the same way.
posted by BillMcMurdo at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by BillMcMurdo at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: You seem to be acting like you will not go outside at all during a storm and my experience with New England snowstorms has been that going out to fetch wood or do a spot of showveling is usually pretty practical.
So, I already live in Massachusetts, and the idea of going outside for this stuff is not foreign to me. I usually try to head out and keep the walkways clear, at least. But there's a big difference to me between "shoveling 6 inches off the walkway" and "digging out a multiple cubic feet all around around the Generac". I figure if a storm is bad enough to knock out our power, the snow is going to be coming down too fast to shovel all of it without the area getting re-buried.
Also, my partner is not able to do ANY amount shoveling on her own, so if I'm not available for any reason it simply can't get done.
Heat is the primary concern, electricity is only secondary. The main issue is that we have birds, and they're very sensitive to cold temperatures. If it was just us, we could maybe get by with heavy blankets for a while.
So I might look into propane heaters that use piezo-electric starters with a pilot light instead of mains electricity. That could solve the power outage problem, which just leaves asking my partner if she's planning for a winter storm or TEOTWAKI, because she's acting like a heavy snow means we're permanently cut off from propane or something.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:53 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
So, I already live in Massachusetts, and the idea of going outside for this stuff is not foreign to me. I usually try to head out and keep the walkways clear, at least. But there's a big difference to me between "shoveling 6 inches off the walkway" and "digging out a multiple cubic feet all around around the Generac". I figure if a storm is bad enough to knock out our power, the snow is going to be coming down too fast to shovel all of it without the area getting re-buried.
Also, my partner is not able to do ANY amount shoveling on her own, so if I'm not available for any reason it simply can't get done.
Heat is the primary concern, electricity is only secondary. The main issue is that we have birds, and they're very sensitive to cold temperatures. If it was just us, we could maybe get by with heavy blankets for a while.
So I might look into propane heaters that use piezo-electric starters with a pilot light instead of mains electricity. That could solve the power outage problem, which just leaves asking my partner if she's planning for a winter storm or TEOTWAKI, because she's acting like a heavy snow means we're permanently cut off from propane or something.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:53 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
You should be able to set up the generator in its own little doghouse, with a snorkel for intake air and another for exhaust.
posted by notsnot at 12:19 PM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 12:19 PM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have a standard oil furnace that heats my hot water and requires electricity. When it dies, I'll reconsider propane or even kerosene. I have a propane kitchen stove where I can and have heated water in an outage, and can add warmth from the burners for short periods. The stove burners are unvented, but I have warmed up a cast iron pan for an hour, just as I would keep a pot of stew going for an hour or more. I have a small wood stove that keeps the living room toasty so that the rest of the house can be kind of chilly. It can heat the whole house pretty well, but does require getting up during the night to feed it in that scenario. I am considering a larger stove. The wood stove makes the living room so cheerful and cozy. In a storm that's dumping a foot of snow, a fire is satisfying. I live alone and my health isn't fantastic, so I keep wood in the house and more on the deck, just in case, esp. if bad weather is forecast. Hauling in wood isn't bad, but shoveling a foot of snow to get to the wood, and to keep the wood piles clear, is work. There was a several days outage last fall in a big wind storm. Even with the flu, I had no trouble keeping warm and keeping the pipes in the safe range. My biggest complaint is the noise of the many gas generators that kick in immediately after the power goes out.
posted by theora55 at 1:09 PM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 1:09 PM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by Larry David Syndrome at 9:26 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]