The dreaded "career development" conversation.
June 4, 2018 8:34 AM Subscribe
Relatively new boss wants to have a conversation about career development. I feel like I've always been bad at this sort of thing. Help?
I've been with my current company for ~20 years. I'm doing, well, I don't want to say the "same" things I was doing 20 years ago when I first started on, but similar things. It's been sort of a natural, gradual progression. A few promotions, increased responsibilities, new technical skills here and there as needed, occasionally new things being added and other things being removed from my responsibilities. And most of those have been positive changes. But it's always been a gradual shift; no abrupt career transitions over those 20 years.
And I'm fine with that! But it makes it hard to have conversations about "career development." It's sort of the "where do you see yourself in five years" question common in interviews, except in the context of a job I already have rather than one I'm trying to get. And I feel like I've never been able to have that conversation well, whether in an actual interview or with similar conversations with previous bosses. Now, a fairly new boss (of about 6 months) wants to have that conversation with each of their employees (i.e., not singling me out).
How do I approach this conversation in a way that comes across as more meaningful and less passive than just "I'd be happy doing more or less the same things I'm doing now?"
I've been with my current company for ~20 years. I'm doing, well, I don't want to say the "same" things I was doing 20 years ago when I first started on, but similar things. It's been sort of a natural, gradual progression. A few promotions, increased responsibilities, new technical skills here and there as needed, occasionally new things being added and other things being removed from my responsibilities. And most of those have been positive changes. But it's always been a gradual shift; no abrupt career transitions over those 20 years.
And I'm fine with that! But it makes it hard to have conversations about "career development." It's sort of the "where do you see yourself in five years" question common in interviews, except in the context of a job I already have rather than one I'm trying to get. And I feel like I've never been able to have that conversation well, whether in an actual interview or with similar conversations with previous bosses. Now, a fairly new boss (of about 6 months) wants to have that conversation with each of their employees (i.e., not singling me out).
How do I approach this conversation in a way that comes across as more meaningful and less passive than just "I'd be happy doing more or less the same things I'm doing now?"
It sounds to me like your new manager is doing new-manager things, like making sure they support you in your career (or at least they can check off that box when it comes time for their own evaluation).
I'd write out a brief sketch of your history with the company, touching on your promotions and the new responsibilities you've taken on over the years. Maybe include an item or two about the things your role no longer covers and who is now responsible for that work. Then describe what you like about your work and what you'd like to see more of in the future. If that opens an opportunity for dialogue about how that could lead to a promotion or a project with rewarding visibility or something, it'll give your manager something to contribute. But in any case, it'll give your manager a high-level picture of your history with the company and what keeps you engaged. That's pretty much what they tend to look for. Most managers aren't looking for a detailed plan like, "So how do you plan to earn that next promotion?" and even if they did, you could put that ball back in their court and be like, "Well, certainly if you see opportunities for me to demonstrate my value on projects that I might not otherwise have visibility to, I hope you would tell me about them and advocate for me." Because that's the manager's job in regard to the career development of their reports.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:45 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'd write out a brief sketch of your history with the company, touching on your promotions and the new responsibilities you've taken on over the years. Maybe include an item or two about the things your role no longer covers and who is now responsible for that work. Then describe what you like about your work and what you'd like to see more of in the future. If that opens an opportunity for dialogue about how that could lead to a promotion or a project with rewarding visibility or something, it'll give your manager something to contribute. But in any case, it'll give your manager a high-level picture of your history with the company and what keeps you engaged. That's pretty much what they tend to look for. Most managers aren't looking for a detailed plan like, "So how do you plan to earn that next promotion?" and even if they did, you could put that ball back in their court and be like, "Well, certainly if you see opportunities for me to demonstrate my value on projects that I might not otherwise have visibility to, I hope you would tell me about them and advocate for me." Because that's the manager's job in regard to the career development of their reports.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:45 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've also been doing essentially an evolution of the same thing for just over 20 years. Every year in my review, I answer similar questions by saying that my goals are to enhance & maintain my technical skills by staying abreast of current technologies, to grow my reputation across the organisation as an authority on the stuff that I work on, to share my skills with colleagues, and to develop our group's ability to turn out a decent work product.
I'm lucky enough to work for an organisation that has a fairly good level of respect for technical specialism - in a more hierarchical or up-or-out kind of place, this plan might not have worked for me (at least, not for as long as it has). And I'm also lucky to have technical skills that my employer consistently values. But, some variation of those answers has kept my last 4 or 5 managers happy. They all have their own boxes to tick too, this is just one more thing on their list. Some bosses are looking for an excuse to get on your back - as long as you don't have one of those, you should be good.
posted by rd45 at 8:51 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm lucky enough to work for an organisation that has a fairly good level of respect for technical specialism - in a more hierarchical or up-or-out kind of place, this plan might not have worked for me (at least, not for as long as it has). And I'm also lucky to have technical skills that my employer consistently values. But, some variation of those answers has kept my last 4 or 5 managers happy. They all have their own boxes to tick too, this is just one more thing on their list. Some bosses are looking for an excuse to get on your back - as long as you don't have one of those, you should be good.
posted by rd45 at 8:51 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I feel similarly about my job. I did some general flaily "what to tell your manager if you don't want to change your job too much" web searches before a performance review of my own - and if it helps, the feedback I was seeing was that often a manager likes to hear that. I know it seems like they're going to hear that you want a slower pace for career development and will think " eww, why don't they want to climb the ladder?" But the feedback I was seeing was that their reaction may be more like "oh phew, this is a person we don't have to worry is on the verge of quitting unless we give them a better job which is good because we can't give them that right now". These kind of "career development" conversations are more a chance for your manager to see how to help you - if you're happy where you are, and where the pace is going, then that's exactly what they want to hear, because it gives them a chance to focus on the guy who says "I really want to be in a higher position in two years" so they can figure out "okay, how do we MAKE a higher position for this guy to move into so we don't lose him to another company?"
Like you, I was doing this in advance of a performance-review goal-setting type of conversation, and I went into that with the phrase "I want to continue to get even better at the job I currently have", and that seemed to do the trick. But if your concerns are that you may look ilke you're not ambitious, this may not be anythig you need to worry about.
Good luck!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:37 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Like you, I was doing this in advance of a performance-review goal-setting type of conversation, and I went into that with the phrase "I want to continue to get even better at the job I currently have", and that seemed to do the trick. But if your concerns are that you may look ilke you're not ambitious, this may not be anythig you need to worry about.
Good luck!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:37 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
But for the most part, expect your boss to be perhaps somewhat relieved that you're not a Young Turk gunning for his/her job or otherwise demanding lots of nurturing and other forms of attention.
Well, sort of. Maybe. I once had a similar discussion with my manager at my last office job. When I told him that I was very happy in my current position and wasn't really looking to climb the ladder, and definitely would never want to move into his position, he seemed sincerely upset. As if the concept that someone wouldn't want to climb the ladder into ever-higher positions was utterly alien. As in "from another planet." It was unfathomable.
In some managers' eyes, this shows a lack of ambition, which, in turn, implies (to them) that you aren't someone who will fully apply themselves to the job at-hand. They're wrong thinking that, of course, but that way of thinking is part-and-parcel to their worldview.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well, sort of. Maybe. I once had a similar discussion with my manager at my last office job. When I told him that I was very happy in my current position and wasn't really looking to climb the ladder, and definitely would never want to move into his position, he seemed sincerely upset. As if the concept that someone wouldn't want to climb the ladder into ever-higher positions was utterly alien. As in "from another planet." It was unfathomable.
In some managers' eyes, this shows a lack of ambition, which, in turn, implies (to them) that you aren't someone who will fully apply themselves to the job at-hand. They're wrong thinking that, of course, but that way of thinking is part-and-parcel to their worldview.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I've been this boss. My goal was not to put staff on the spot, or have them outline a career plan, but to better understand what the members of the team wanted for themselves, or were worried about, because that allowed me to be a better manager to them. I could see from output or meetings how people showed up and the quality of their work, but I didn't know if people were happy in their roles, or if there was something specific they wanted that they weren't getting.
To be clear, this was always in the interest of having a happier, more satisfied team. It was a tad bit frustrating if people couldn't come up with anything they wanted for the future, though I understand that can be difficult - and of course, not everyone on a team needs to be (or should be!) a super-ambitious ladder-climbing go-getter. But even people who were happy where they were - there were usually training opportunities I could get for them that would help them develop in the areas they cared about, or specific things they loved doing that I could help them focus on.
So I'd think through this for yourself: is there a skill you want to develop, or a kind of experience you'd like to get? For instance, do you normally design XYZ widgets but you'd like to understand V design so you can make VXY widgets? Or is there a training you'd like so you can get even better at a certain part of your job?
Another way to look at this: what do you current like about your job, and/or that you'd like more of? And what would you love to cycle out if you could?
Anyway, think through all of this, and it should give you plenty of material to talk through with your new manager. I also think it's totally fine to say "I've never been one for a rigid five year plan - my career here has always developed organically as I've taken advantage of opportunities in front of me, and I'm really happy with that. But I would love the opportunity to [DO THING, BUILD SKILL] at some point." (I think it's important to say the part about taking advantage of opportunities so you don't sound like you've been passively floating. It sounds like you are a great employee and have grown a lot in your company)
In case it's not obvious, I would focus exclusively on the positive in this first conversation, unless they really push you for negatives. Best to keep it positive in this first meeting. So it's good to think through what you want less of, but in the actual conversation, I'd focus on what you want more of.
posted by lunasol at 2:32 PM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
To be clear, this was always in the interest of having a happier, more satisfied team. It was a tad bit frustrating if people couldn't come up with anything they wanted for the future, though I understand that can be difficult - and of course, not everyone on a team needs to be (or should be!) a super-ambitious ladder-climbing go-getter. But even people who were happy where they were - there were usually training opportunities I could get for them that would help them develop in the areas they cared about, or specific things they loved doing that I could help them focus on.
So I'd think through this for yourself: is there a skill you want to develop, or a kind of experience you'd like to get? For instance, do you normally design XYZ widgets but you'd like to understand V design so you can make VXY widgets? Or is there a training you'd like so you can get even better at a certain part of your job?
Another way to look at this: what do you current like about your job, and/or that you'd like more of? And what would you love to cycle out if you could?
Anyway, think through all of this, and it should give you plenty of material to talk through with your new manager. I also think it's totally fine to say "I've never been one for a rigid five year plan - my career here has always developed organically as I've taken advantage of opportunities in front of me, and I'm really happy with that. But I would love the opportunity to [DO THING, BUILD SKILL] at some point." (I think it's important to say the part about taking advantage of opportunities so you don't sound like you've been passively floating. It sounds like you are a great employee and have grown a lot in your company)
In case it's not obvious, I would focus exclusively on the positive in this first conversation, unless they really push you for negatives. Best to keep it positive in this first meeting. So it's good to think through what you want less of, but in the actual conversation, I'd focus on what you want more of.
posted by lunasol at 2:32 PM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
From my perspective as a person who worked in a technical field, the big question is are you looking to move into a managerial role. You should have an answer about any sort of change to a fundamentally different job.
A new manager wants to know who is just passing through and who is staying put.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:11 PM on June 4, 2018
A new manager wants to know who is just passing through and who is staying put.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:11 PM on June 4, 2018
I am a manager. I ask my direct reports these questions so I can better support them in what they want from a job.
posted by nikaspark at 2:40 AM on June 5, 2018
posted by nikaspark at 2:40 AM on June 5, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
So you should feel free to tell your new boss that your tenure with the company has been positive, you've advanced at a pace that is comfortable for you, and that you've always appreciated the gradual nature of the changes in your job. If there are specific skills you'd like to pick up, either because they'll help you do a better job or just because, that's the time to indicate your interest. Ditto for professional organizations or conferences you'd like to get involved in.
But for the most part, expect your boss to be perhaps somewhat relieved that you're not a Young Turk gunning for his/her job or otherwise demanding lots of nurturing and other forms of attention.
posted by DrGail at 8:45 AM on June 4, 2018 [10 favorites]