Miss Manners Filter: When is it rude to ask for a favor?
June 3, 2018 6:48 PM Subscribe
A friend's wife is angry at me for asking her husband for a favor. He said 'yes'. He could have said 'no'. She says I was rude for even asking. Is it rude to ask?
It was Sunday and there was a big problem at work-- think fire or typhoon level problem. I mean there was a real disaster and all hands needed on deck. I had to drop everything and rush downtown.
I also have a sick dog at home with a painful case of Cystitis-- I live alone. My normal sitter wasn't available, so I left a key at my front desk, pinged three friends who live within 30 minutes of me, explained the situation, and asked if one of them could please just take her down for a quick pee break at lunch.
The friend in question quickly replied he could do it. He lives five minutes from my door and was gone from his house probably a grand total of 20 minutes in the course of taking down the dog. I said thank you, and that was that.
I found out later his wife was livid (we are not as close friends as I am with her husband, but I know her socially) because both of their adult children were visiting this weekend. Even though they didn't have any special plans, she said I should have known I was ruining their day. I was surprised and apologised. He said it was his own fault for saying yes. He also seems surprised by her reaction. His wife is still angry at me and says I should have known better.
In truth, I do know it's a big deal to her to have everyone together. I probably could have predicted she wouldn't like any outside interruption-- she's a real nester. I didn't think about it at the time, and sent out the request based on geography and a history of giving and asking favors. (I have done several favors for this couple in the past. Similar stuff. I keep a key for their house since I live so close.) I just sent out the request to a couple of folks, and assumed anyone could say 'no'. I was aware that the family weekend was happening since I saw it on Facebook, but was not otherwise invited or involved. The friend in question is a pretty good friend but not a best friend.
Is it rude to ask for a favor under these circumstances? Is this an ask versus guess thing? I mentioned this case to my best friend, and she said she understood why his wife was angry. Her opinion was it would have been better if I had let him know what was going on and see if he offered to help rather than asking to help. Is it better?
I feel genuinely bad since apparently this caused a fight at home and one of the kids was annoyed at me too (mostly for causing the fight). I've known them for many years and I certainly would have found another solution if I had known this would be the outcome.
(NB: No boy/girl stuff at play.)
It was Sunday and there was a big problem at work-- think fire or typhoon level problem. I mean there was a real disaster and all hands needed on deck. I had to drop everything and rush downtown.
I also have a sick dog at home with a painful case of Cystitis-- I live alone. My normal sitter wasn't available, so I left a key at my front desk, pinged three friends who live within 30 minutes of me, explained the situation, and asked if one of them could please just take her down for a quick pee break at lunch.
The friend in question quickly replied he could do it. He lives five minutes from my door and was gone from his house probably a grand total of 20 minutes in the course of taking down the dog. I said thank you, and that was that.
I found out later his wife was livid (we are not as close friends as I am with her husband, but I know her socially) because both of their adult children were visiting this weekend. Even though they didn't have any special plans, she said I should have known I was ruining their day. I was surprised and apologised. He said it was his own fault for saying yes. He also seems surprised by her reaction. His wife is still angry at me and says I should have known better.
In truth, I do know it's a big deal to her to have everyone together. I probably could have predicted she wouldn't like any outside interruption-- she's a real nester. I didn't think about it at the time, and sent out the request based on geography and a history of giving and asking favors. (I have done several favors for this couple in the past. Similar stuff. I keep a key for their house since I live so close.) I just sent out the request to a couple of folks, and assumed anyone could say 'no'. I was aware that the family weekend was happening since I saw it on Facebook, but was not otherwise invited or involved. The friend in question is a pretty good friend but not a best friend.
Is it rude to ask for a favor under these circumstances? Is this an ask versus guess thing? I mentioned this case to my best friend, and she said she understood why his wife was angry. Her opinion was it would have been better if I had let him know what was going on and see if he offered to help rather than asking to help. Is it better?
I feel genuinely bad since apparently this caused a fight at home and one of the kids was annoyed at me too (mostly for causing the fight). I've known them for many years and I certainly would have found another solution if I had known this would be the outcome.
(NB: No boy/girl stuff at play.)
Best answer: Gosh, no, you definitely did nothing wrong. The only one who might have erred is the friend who happily offered to help for twenty minutes in a dire emergency. I suspect that his wife feels overlooked or under-appreciated in other ways, and this whole thing is about all of that, not you. She misstepped by being angry with you. Her quibble is with her husband.
posted by kate blank at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [75 favorites]
posted by kate blank at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [75 favorites]
The wife is unreasonably angry with you ... and is frankly unreasonable to be mad about the situation at all. But it's up to your friend to manage his wife. He could have said no.
posted by mccxxiii at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by mccxxiii at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
It is absolutely an Ask vs Guess thing. It’s also passive-aggressive thing where she’s actually mad at her husband for saying yes but she’s aiming it all at you so that she doesn’t have to be direct with him. Leave it between them and go about your day.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:55 PM on June 3, 2018 [39 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:55 PM on June 3, 2018 [39 favorites]
Heh, I was basically going to say the same thing as lalex and I am a hardcore asker, so, I think you're good.
posted by ferret branca at 6:57 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ferret branca at 6:57 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I was all set to be like "Yeah Ask vs. Guess" but in this case you didn't even put him on the spot by asking directly (which is the rude sort of asking, to guessers) but left a door open. So I'm totally with ThatCanadianGirl where she's mad at him, can't be mad at him, gets mad at you. An emergency is an emergency and I would not worry about this. Saying sorry was the mannerly thing to do, but I don't think you did anything wrong.
posted by jessamyn at 7:00 PM on June 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 7:00 PM on June 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
Gosh, one of the kids was mad at you too? For causing the fight? Is no one in that family responsible for the own actions?
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:01 PM on June 3, 2018 [101 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:01 PM on June 3, 2018 [101 favorites]
You did nothing wrong. If he said “aww, man, the family is all together...” and you badgered him until he said OK, that would be different.
There is nothing wrong with asking for favors as long as you 1) Don’t guilt them into it and 2) reciprocate.
posted by greermahoney at 7:02 PM on June 3, 2018 [11 favorites]
There is nothing wrong with asking for favors as long as you 1) Don’t guilt them into it and 2) reciprocate.
posted by greermahoney at 7:02 PM on June 3, 2018 [11 favorites]
This is definitely on the Ask/Guess spectrum but I think it's so close to middle ground that it's ridiculous for anyone to be offended. Friend's wife needs to work out her issues with friend. This is not on you.
posted by lazuli at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Your friend's wife sounds bizarre. I am as "guess" as it gets and I cannot fathom anyone having this reaction to you. If my husband left a family gathering to help a friend I'd be ticked at him, if anyone, although it's hard to imagine being ticked at all under the circumstances you described.
posted by gatorae at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also...
Her opinion was it would have been better if I had let him know what was going on and see if he offered to help rather than asking to help. Is it better?
No, this is not better. I have no idea why someone would say this, and I’m a New Englander by birth, and we ABHOR asking for help.
posted by greermahoney at 7:06 PM on June 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
Her opinion was it would have been better if I had let him know what was going on and see if he offered to help rather than asking to help. Is it better?
No, this is not better. I have no idea why someone would say this, and I’m a New Englander by birth, and we ABHOR asking for help.
posted by greermahoney at 7:06 PM on June 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I’m totally a guess person, and I don’t think this was rude at all. You shouldn’t have to remember somebody’s schedule when you’re dealing with an emergency. His wife is out of line, especially since you do favors for them.
posted by FencingGal at 7:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 7:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
Best answer: I'm 100% Guess, and you did nothing wrong. You texted THREE friends - thus fulfilling the Guess rule that you must leave the askee with an out. If it wasn't doable, all the husband had to do was pretend to not see your text until somebody else had stepped up. Also, under Guess rules it is ok to ask for a favor in an emergency which this clearly was.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:10 PM on June 3, 2018 [41 favorites]
posted by selfmedicating at 7:10 PM on June 3, 2018 [41 favorites]
Yes, I'm more of a guesser myself, and I can't see that you did anything wrong here. I think it's weird of her to be upset, period (did neither she nor any of the kids take twenty minutes to themselves the entire weekend?), but, if there's anyone to be upset at, it's the husband, not you.
posted by praemunire at 7:11 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:11 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
And it terms of what's rude: It's rude to demand someone help you in a non-emergency situation. Asking people (especially multiple people, who knew you were asking multiple people!) to help you in an emergency situation is not rude.
posted by lazuli at 7:11 PM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 7:11 PM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
I probably could have predicted she wouldn't like any outside interruption-- she's a real nester.
If you could predict this, so could her husband. He knows her better than you do. I agree with others that if she's mad at you at all, it's because there's something larger going on here where she feels like she can't be mad at her husband. I don't think this is actually an Ask/Guess thing, I think she's just seized on that as the only possible way to come up with a complaint about this that doesn't sound completely out there. She's upset generally and he needs to work on that with her and it almost certainly needs to not involve you at all.
posted by Sequence at 7:12 PM on June 3, 2018 [15 favorites]
If you could predict this, so could her husband. He knows her better than you do. I agree with others that if she's mad at you at all, it's because there's something larger going on here where she feels like she can't be mad at her husband. I don't think this is actually an Ask/Guess thing, I think she's just seized on that as the only possible way to come up with a complaint about this that doesn't sound completely out there. She's upset generally and he needs to work on that with her and it almost certainly needs to not involve you at all.
posted by Sequence at 7:12 PM on June 3, 2018 [15 favorites]
When I say it's definitely on the Ask/Guess spectrum, I mean solely that that's how everyone involved is framing it, so it's a useful lens to look through when evaluating your actions and everyone's reactions. Like I said before, though, you're good on that metric.
posted by lazuli at 7:15 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lazuli at 7:15 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
The wife's reaction is so far beyond normal that it’s practically not even on this plane of reality. I mean, you “ruined their day”? Wha? If their day was ruined, I can guarantee you 100% it wasn’t ruined by you; it was ruined by her sulking for the rest of the day rather than just letting it go. The only accurate way I can think to characterize her reaction is “deeply bizarre.” As others have noted, this pretty obviously nothing to do with you.
posted by holborne at 7:22 PM on June 3, 2018 [45 favorites]
posted by holborne at 7:22 PM on June 3, 2018 [45 favorites]
If I was at my parents’ for the weekend and my dad said he had to run out briefly and walk a friend’s dog, I’d jump up and go along with him for the one-to-one time.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:22 PM on June 3, 2018 [53 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:22 PM on June 3, 2018 [53 favorites]
That's super immature and dysfunctional of the wife and their (presumably adult) child to blame you. I don't believe the father did anything wrong, but if he did, then this is still entirely utterly completely on him.
He could have asked them before replying affirmatively to you since he was already involved in spending the day with them.
posted by jbenben at 7:26 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
He could have asked them before replying affirmatively to you since he was already involved in spending the day with them.
posted by jbenben at 7:26 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a super-guesser. In my view you did nothing wrong.
Even if you had remembered he had his kid visiting (which is not a reasonable expectation) it would still have been fine for you to ask for this easy, small favor to deal with an emergency. (And they all could have come along on the walk!)
Wife has something else going on, some sort of ongoing anger at her husband for something; or maybe she hates you for some other reason.
I'm guessing the visit didn't go the way she hoped and she is seizing on this thing as a way of explaining what went wrong when in fact it had to do with stuff she doesn't want to admit or confront.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:59 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Even if you had remembered he had his kid visiting (which is not a reasonable expectation) it would still have been fine for you to ask for this easy, small favor to deal with an emergency. (And they all could have come along on the walk!)
Wife has something else going on, some sort of ongoing anger at her husband for something; or maybe she hates you for some other reason.
I'm guessing the visit didn't go the way she hoped and she is seizing on this thing as a way of explaining what went wrong when in fact it had to do with stuff she doesn't want to admit or confront.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:59 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: In fairness to the adult child, I'm not sure how much of the background he got (that I asked multiple people, that it was really an emergency). He seems to have just reacted to Mom being so triggered.
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I didn't think I'd done anything wrong, but the response was so strong I doubted myself.
posted by frumiousb at 8:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I didn't think I'd done anything wrong, but the response was so strong I doubted myself.
posted by frumiousb at 8:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Thank your friend for being a good friend, and ignore her entirely.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:09 PM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:09 PM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's unclear from your question, but did you actually speak to the wife yourself about any of this?
Because if not, this could possibly be some hardcore triangulation on your friends part.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:12 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Because if not, this could possibly be some hardcore triangulation on your friends part.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:12 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
I disagree that this is an ask v tell difference. This is a genuine emergency, additionally so if you consider animal welfare to be important. You had to attend to an emergency and worry about the dog - anyone who suggests you had time to hint around may not understand that. Even in ask culture, you are allowed to ask for help during crises. Especially if the help would take 20 minutes, Jesus. This is an asshole v. not asshole difference, and she's really being an asshole.
posted by namesarehard at 8:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by namesarehard at 8:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
You are in the clear. Period.
posted by bz at 8:30 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by bz at 8:30 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Are you sure the wife got the full info that you asked multiple people?
posted by hworth at 8:49 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by hworth at 8:49 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
If the wife's reaction in this case is in any way typical of her behaviour, it's no surprise her husband leapt at the chance to take a twenty minute break.
You did nothing wrong. The wife needs to deal with her husband.
posted by rpfields at 8:51 PM on June 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
You did nothing wrong. The wife needs to deal with her husband.
posted by rpfields at 8:51 PM on June 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
Best answer: This is very much about the wife and their relationship, not about you. For whatever reason -- she's spent her life displacing her anger onto others, it doesn't feel emotionally safe to be angry with her husband, she is at the end of her rope with him -- she needed someone to blame other than/in addition to him.
My best guess would be that he doesn't help out around the house much so it makes her crazy when he happily helps others, and/or can't say no to anybody asking a favor and it frequently leads to problems (overcommits, gives his family short shrift), and/or he jumps at any chance to dodge family obligations.
In any event those are all about their marriage, and his behavior, and her coping strategies. None of it is to do with you except that you were the unlucky trigger for whatever this problem is, this time around.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [22 favorites]
My best guess would be that he doesn't help out around the house much so it makes her crazy when he happily helps others, and/or can't say no to anybody asking a favor and it frequently leads to problems (overcommits, gives his family short shrift), and/or he jumps at any chance to dodge family obligations.
In any event those are all about their marriage, and his behavior, and her coping strategies. None of it is to do with you except that you were the unlucky trigger for whatever this problem is, this time around.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [22 favorites]
It's stories like this that remind why I'm happy being single. The wife in this case sounds completely unreasonable and extremely controlling. Even if you had only asked the husband, it still would not have been your fault because he is an adult and he can say, "no."
posted by parakeetdog at 8:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by parakeetdog at 8:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don’t think this is an ask/guess scenario. I think this is a scenario I recognize super instinctively but am having a hard time explaining, but the read I am getting is that you are in a position where you seem in some ways to be a person owed charity (single? No close family?) but the wife doesn’t feel like you are actually owed that charity, but you’re kicking in the chivalry circuits on her husband because he can’t say no to a charity request.
But also, that maybe she feels you should have asked people in reverse order of marital obligations? Like instead of texting three people, that you should have texted your least partnered friend first?
I also know some married couples where the wife makes the schedule and so anyone asking the husband to do a favor is a pain because he has no idea what else he’s on the hook for because he doesn’t set his own schedule.
I don’t know which if any of these are operating, but these are all what my first assumptions would be.
posted by corb at 10:01 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
But also, that maybe she feels you should have asked people in reverse order of marital obligations? Like instead of texting three people, that you should have texted your least partnered friend first?
I also know some married couples where the wife makes the schedule and so anyone asking the husband to do a favor is a pain because he has no idea what else he’s on the hook for because he doesn’t set his own schedule.
I don’t know which if any of these are operating, but these are all what my first assumptions would be.
posted by corb at 10:01 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
There is something going on in that marriage that has nothing to do with you, but unfortunately, you have found yourself the scapegoat.
You didn't do anything wrong at all. In fact, even though it was an emergency, you provided each person you asked with a plausible out by a) communicating via asynchronous methods (text) and b) asking multiple people so no one person would be put on the spot or pressured. You did right by your dog, you were thoughtful and non-pushy, and it was a frickin' emergency!
Even if she has good reason to be frustrated with her husband, your friend's wife needs to find a way to discuss what's bothering her in her marriage by addressing it directly with him, not seizing on you as a convenient scapegoat to once again avoid discussing the real issue, which is the only thing that blaming you will accomplish.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:16 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
You didn't do anything wrong at all. In fact, even though it was an emergency, you provided each person you asked with a plausible out by a) communicating via asynchronous methods (text) and b) asking multiple people so no one person would be put on the spot or pressured. You did right by your dog, you were thoughtful and non-pushy, and it was a frickin' emergency!
Even if she has good reason to be frustrated with her husband, your friend's wife needs to find a way to discuss what's bothering her in her marriage by addressing it directly with him, not seizing on you as a convenient scapegoat to once again avoid discussing the real issue, which is the only thing that blaming you will accomplish.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:16 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
I agree with the sentiment above, but wanted to just ask if you know if they had plans that day that had to be changed so that your friend could walk the dog? That would explain the ire, and why it's extending from the husband (where it belongs) to you.
posted by Toddles at 10:56 PM on June 3, 2018
posted by Toddles at 10:56 PM on June 3, 2018
She's completely in the wrong. In fact, if I had an important family event happening and found out my husband could have helped a sick and suffering animal by taking a mere 20 minutes out of our day and had chosen not to help, I would be very angry at his callousness. This isn't about you. I hope your dog is feeling better.
posted by quince at 11:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by quince at 11:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
Best answer: I once needed a ride to the doctor for an injury, and a friend volunteered to take me. It was a very nice thing for a good friend to do. It wasn't nice that I then got a long string of texts from his ex-wife berating me for needing his help and how awful a person I was for asking him. Keep in mind that my friend and I are both straight men.
Point being: sometimes people get weird about very strange things, and as there's nothing wrong with your behavior, you'll do best to let it roll off your back, and you'll be doing your friend a solid by not asking/accepting favors from him for a while (if ever) because if you heard from his wife, I bet he really heard from his wife.
posted by davejay at 11:23 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Point being: sometimes people get weird about very strange things, and as there's nothing wrong with your behavior, you'll do best to let it roll off your back, and you'll be doing your friend a solid by not asking/accepting favors from him for a while (if ever) because if you heard from his wife, I bet he really heard from his wife.
posted by davejay at 11:23 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
You are SO not wrong, plus you would not be wrong to ask this even if the work situation were less than a flood or fire level emergency. It depresses me to even think anyone could consider this wrong.
People live in communities. No one in the entire world can live without help from other people. No family is a tiny bubble enclosed away from other people. This wife gets help from people, **and she has a certain privilege by having a family to help her with things.** This does not make her morally superior to people who have to reach beyond the family to get help when they need it.
Everyone has *something* going on during their weekend. The fact that *her* thing was her family being together doesn't mean it's more important than anyone else's thing they might have going on. People stop their important things and help out for a little while because that's the thing you do when you have friendships, community and reciprocal bonds. AND even if she thinks you don't reciprocate, she is still in reciprocal structures, getting things from others for all kinds of reasons, in ways she doesn't think about.
It's just so sad that people don't acknowledge the interdependence of a community.
posted by nantucket at 11:26 PM on June 3, 2018 [19 favorites]
People live in communities. No one in the entire world can live without help from other people. No family is a tiny bubble enclosed away from other people. This wife gets help from people, **and she has a certain privilege by having a family to help her with things.** This does not make her morally superior to people who have to reach beyond the family to get help when they need it.
Everyone has *something* going on during their weekend. The fact that *her* thing was her family being together doesn't mean it's more important than anyone else's thing they might have going on. People stop their important things and help out for a little while because that's the thing you do when you have friendships, community and reciprocal bonds. AND even if she thinks you don't reciprocate, she is still in reciprocal structures, getting things from others for all kinds of reasons, in ways she doesn't think about.
It's just so sad that people don't acknowledge the interdependence of a community.
posted by nantucket at 11:26 PM on June 3, 2018 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: But also, that maybe she feels you should have asked people in reverse order of marital obligations? Like instead of texting three people, that you should have texted your least partnered friend first?
Yes, I actually think she believes this. Thanks for articulating it. I find that very weird. (And I do not feel like I am a charity case for being single, but she may believe this too.) Would that mean she's been within her rights to ask me for favors in the past because I'm single?
To those who asked, I haven't talked to her in detail, only got a very terse message that my request was out of line and I should have known better. My friend answered me when I apologized to them both and she hasn't responded to the apology. I don't know if he told her I tried other people, but assume he would have done so, at least in self-defense.
posted by frumiousb at 11:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, I actually think she believes this. Thanks for articulating it. I find that very weird. (And I do not feel like I am a charity case for being single, but she may believe this too.) Would that mean she's been within her rights to ask me for favors in the past because I'm single?
To those who asked, I haven't talked to her in detail, only got a very terse message that my request was out of line and I should have known better. My friend answered me when I apologized to them both and she hasn't responded to the apology. I don't know if he told her I tried other people, but assume he would have done so, at least in self-defense.
posted by frumiousb at 11:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Is it rude to ask for a favor under these circumstances?
No. Your friend's wife is majorly overreacting. You didn't do anything wrong.
Is this an ask versus guess thing?
No. You friend agreed to do something his wife didn't want him to do. That's all. This really has nothing to do with you at all, and any blame being placed on you is deeply unjustified.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:33 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
No. Your friend's wife is majorly overreacting. You didn't do anything wrong.
Is this an ask versus guess thing?
No. You friend agreed to do something his wife didn't want him to do. That's all. This really has nothing to do with you at all, and any blame being placed on you is deeply unjustified.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:33 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm married, and I'd be pretty bewildered and possibly pissed off if my single friends refrained from asking me for help "because I'm married". (In fact, I had something similar happen with a friend last year, which is in my history on the green.) Friends are friends, and it seems doubly cruel to expect only single people to pick up the slack for everyone, when they already have to do everything by themselves. So the wife seems a little... mean?
That said, Eyebrows McGee may be on to something. My husband has developed a habit of jumping whenever his boss wants him to, but needing to be convinced to help me, and it's not good. (Fortunately, his awful job ends soon.) But even then, it's the husband who did wrong, not you.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 11:47 PM on June 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
That said, Eyebrows McGee may be on to something. My husband has developed a habit of jumping whenever his boss wants him to, but needing to be convinced to help me, and it's not good. (Fortunately, his awful job ends soon.) But even then, it's the husband who did wrong, not you.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 11:47 PM on June 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Would that mean she's been within her rights to ask me for favors in the past because I'm single?
This is, as I said, hard to explain because I don’t usually consciously think about it, but essentially- it’s a form of thinking about marriage that’s somewhat old fashioned, but common in certain swaths of the country. It’s also one that’s often tied in with more old-fashioned gender expectations - so like if you want a favor from a man, you ask his wife if he can do it, and she gatekeeps the request based on her own friendship with you, and she is the one that gives you an answer. You going straight to the husband with the request is like “skipping the chain” in that scenario. My language is terrible because I don’t usually think this out so carefully, but it would be rude in some circles, if you know the woman socially, to ask her husband directly rather than ask her if the husband could do it.
But also a single person is often - and this isn’t great, and a lot of people are rightfully resentful about this - presumed to both have more time and also belong to no one but themselves, so no gatekeeping is required. Honestly I’m probably guilty of this myself - I tend not to ask married friends for help unless the situation is dire just because I hate going through the gatekeeping dance.
posted by corb at 12:27 AM on June 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
This is, as I said, hard to explain because I don’t usually consciously think about it, but essentially- it’s a form of thinking about marriage that’s somewhat old fashioned, but common in certain swaths of the country. It’s also one that’s often tied in with more old-fashioned gender expectations - so like if you want a favor from a man, you ask his wife if he can do it, and she gatekeeps the request based on her own friendship with you, and she is the one that gives you an answer. You going straight to the husband with the request is like “skipping the chain” in that scenario. My language is terrible because I don’t usually think this out so carefully, but it would be rude in some circles, if you know the woman socially, to ask her husband directly rather than ask her if the husband could do it.
But also a single person is often - and this isn’t great, and a lot of people are rightfully resentful about this - presumed to both have more time and also belong to no one but themselves, so no gatekeeping is required. Honestly I’m probably guilty of this myself - I tend not to ask married friends for help unless the situation is dire just because I hate going through the gatekeeping dance.
posted by corb at 12:27 AM on June 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
I don't know if he told her I tried other people, but assume he would have done so, at least in self-defense.
I wouldn't assume this, not least because it would likely make his wife angrier with him rather than you so it wouldn't be self-defense. If he's presented it as "Of course I had to help" then the information that he didn't have to help because there were other people who were asked and who might also have been able to help then his wife will be angrier that he voluntarily disrupted (by 20 minutes!) their family day.
It may be that he wouldn't throw you under the bus like that but clearly there's some tension there and at the moment you seem to be catching all the blame. Maybe because the wife wants to blame you rather than her husband but maybe also because he's not trying all that hard to stop her blaming you.
posted by *becca* at 1:54 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't assume this, not least because it would likely make his wife angrier with him rather than you so it wouldn't be self-defense. If he's presented it as "Of course I had to help" then the information that he didn't have to help because there were other people who were asked and who might also have been able to help then his wife will be angrier that he voluntarily disrupted (by 20 minutes!) their family day.
It may be that he wouldn't throw you under the bus like that but clearly there's some tension there and at the moment you seem to be catching all the blame. Maybe because the wife wants to blame you rather than her husband but maybe also because he's not trying all that hard to stop her blaming you.
posted by *becca* at 1:54 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I‘m picturing this exchange:
„Why the hell did you leave the family gathering to walk a dog? You made us all late for XY and because of that we didn‘t get to ZX?! You knew this was important to me and that it bugs me when you make me deal with everything on my own!“
„But honey, OP needed help!“
„Couldn‘t they have asked someone else?!“
„OP said it was an emergency!“
And boom, it sounds like you were the one who badgered your friend into interrupting the Family Thing.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:23 AM on June 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
„Why the hell did you leave the family gathering to walk a dog? You made us all late for XY and because of that we didn‘t get to ZX?! You knew this was important to me and that it bugs me when you make me deal with everything on my own!“
„But honey, OP needed help!“
„Couldn‘t they have asked someone else?!“
„OP said it was an emergency!“
And boom, it sounds like you were the one who badgered your friend into interrupting the Family Thing.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:23 AM on June 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
I see from your profile that you’re female - my immediate thought reading this was that she has some pre-existing dislike/jealousy/suspicion that her husband likes you as more than just a friend and this has been a ‘final straw’ moment (albeit a completely unreasonable one by the sound of it)
Or, perhaps, even if she doesn’t consciously realise it herself, she dislikes her husband having single female friends in general. Single people are more in a position to be spontaneous, fun, pursue their passions etc. Whereas she has possibly spent a lot of her life sinking her energy into raising a family, being tied to routine, obligations etc. On a day she’s set up to celebrate that part of their life together, having someone suddenly swing in with a spontaneous request that her husband leaps to might feel like a wider betrayal.
Which is not to defend it, she’s definitely out of line, just trying to get inside her head and make it less inexplicable.
On a purely technical point: I don’t know if texts work the same for you as they do for me, but if I send a text to multiple people, there’s no way of the recipients seeing it went to more than one person unless I actually start it: “Hey, Bill, Tracey, George - ” If you didn’t do that, it may not have been obvious you were asking multiple people (I still think it was a reasonable request, just thought it was worth pointing out).
posted by penguin pie at 2:33 AM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Or, perhaps, even if she doesn’t consciously realise it herself, she dislikes her husband having single female friends in general. Single people are more in a position to be spontaneous, fun, pursue their passions etc. Whereas she has possibly spent a lot of her life sinking her energy into raising a family, being tied to routine, obligations etc. On a day she’s set up to celebrate that part of their life together, having someone suddenly swing in with a spontaneous request that her husband leaps to might feel like a wider betrayal.
Which is not to defend it, she’s definitely out of line, just trying to get inside her head and make it less inexplicable.
On a purely technical point: I don’t know if texts work the same for you as they do for me, but if I send a text to multiple people, there’s no way of the recipients seeing it went to more than one person unless I actually start it: “Hey, Bill, Tracey, George - ” If you didn’t do that, it may not have been obvious you were asking multiple people (I still think it was a reasonable request, just thought it was worth pointing out).
posted by penguin pie at 2:33 AM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
(Realised after posting that you don’t explicitly say you’re single, I assumed that because there wasn’t an available SO to ask to take care of the dog, disregard if I’m wrong! Also, you say “no boy/girl stuff” at play - that may be true for you/him, that doesn’t mean it’s totally true for her. Even if she doesn’t think there’s anything going on between you, she could still be resentful of what she perceives as the fun, carefree company you offer him.)
posted by penguin pie at 2:38 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by penguin pie at 2:38 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I’m as Guess as Guess can be but Sick Dog trumps all things; I’d have done exactly what you did and trusted my friends to manage their own time when saying yes or no.
It sounds like there’s some other stuff going on there that is not about you. You’ve apologized already so I think all you can do now is give them a bit of space and take them off your favor-asking list for a while until everyone chills out.
posted by Stacey at 2:55 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
It sounds like there’s some other stuff going on there that is not about you. You’ve apologized already so I think all you can do now is give them a bit of space and take them off your favor-asking list for a while until everyone chills out.
posted by Stacey at 2:55 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Can someone point me towards whatever conversation has spawned the ask v guess thing? I've no frame of reference for this concept.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:34 AM on June 4, 2018
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:34 AM on June 4, 2018
Can someone point me towards whatever conversation has spawned the ask v guess thing? I've no frame of reference for this concept.
ask culture vs guess culture
posted by mosessis at 4:58 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
ask culture vs guess culture
posted by mosessis at 4:58 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Another voice in the "You were not out of line!" chorus. You asked a perfectly reasonable favor, your friend granted the favor, and now his wife is acting like you were the big meanie who bullied her helpless husband into RUINING AND SPOILING THEIR WHOLE WEEKEND OMG.
I surmise that Eyebrows' scenario is correct: My best guess would be that he doesn't help out around the house much so it makes her crazy when he happily helps others, and/or can't say no to anybody asking a favor and it frequently leads to problems (overcommits, gives his family short shrift), and/or he jumps at any chance to dodge family obligations. And that the wife is doing a time-honored patriarchy thing: blaming the woman instead of her husband. You didn't have an affair with her husband or anything, but it's the same mindset - it's the Evil Woman's fault for Tempting Her Man (in this case, tempting him to take 20 minutes to walk her dog).
It's easier to blame the outsider than confront the husband. You just got caught in a marital crossfire.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:23 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I surmise that Eyebrows' scenario is correct: My best guess would be that he doesn't help out around the house much so it makes her crazy when he happily helps others, and/or can't say no to anybody asking a favor and it frequently leads to problems (overcommits, gives his family short shrift), and/or he jumps at any chance to dodge family obligations. And that the wife is doing a time-honored patriarchy thing: blaming the woman instead of her husband. You didn't have an affair with her husband or anything, but it's the same mindset - it's the Evil Woman's fault for Tempting Her Man (in this case, tempting him to take 20 minutes to walk her dog).
It's easier to blame the outsider than confront the husband. You just got caught in a marital crossfire.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:23 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Agreeing with the agreers on the Eyebrows' idea. One more thing: you say you found out later she was livid. How do you know this? Did he tell you? Why is this public information at all? Why involve you in his drama? We are all thinking the wife is a terrible person based on this, but I think there is more going on here.
You did nothing wrong, but we don't know what's going on between them.
posted by AMyNameIs at 5:38 AM on June 4, 2018
You did nothing wrong, but we don't know what's going on between them.
posted by AMyNameIs at 5:38 AM on June 4, 2018
Response by poster: Agreeing with the agreers on the Eyebrows' idea. One more thing: you say you found out later she was livid.
She was obviously livid from her response to me (by FB messenger) and refusal to answer after that. "You should have realised that was a completely inappropriate request given how little time we have together with the whole family."
He confirmed later, after I apologised, that she was upset (in case I hadn't figured it out). He was the one who told me (and probably later regretted it) that they'd had a fight about it which involved their son. I agree this was all TMI, but he seemed genuinely horrified with the reaction and hastily apologised for oversharing. I haven't heard from either of them since.
I'd kind of prefer to believe she isn't a horrible person but instead there's something going on I don't know about. Or her values really are just really different than mine. Anyhow.
Thanks to everyone for the reassurance!
posted by frumiousb at 5:46 AM on June 4, 2018
She was obviously livid from her response to me (by FB messenger) and refusal to answer after that. "You should have realised that was a completely inappropriate request given how little time we have together with the whole family."
He confirmed later, after I apologised, that she was upset (in case I hadn't figured it out). He was the one who told me (and probably later regretted it) that they'd had a fight about it which involved their son. I agree this was all TMI, but he seemed genuinely horrified with the reaction and hastily apologised for oversharing. I haven't heard from either of them since.
I'd kind of prefer to believe she isn't a horrible person but instead there's something going on I don't know about. Or her values really are just really different than mine. Anyhow.
Thanks to everyone for the reassurance!
posted by frumiousb at 5:46 AM on June 4, 2018
essentially- it’s a form of thinking about marriage that’s somewhat old fashioned, but common in certain swaths of the country. It’s also one that’s often tied in with more old-fashioned gender expectations - so like if you want a favor from a man, you ask his wife if he can do it, and she gatekeeps the request based on her own friendship with you, and she is the one that gives you an answer. You going straight to the husband with the request is like “skipping the chain” in that scenario.
This is super common in my experience, and requests for one person's help are suprisingly often routed through the other spouse even by otherwise non-traditional people. I think this is done both because there is a sense that sometimes direct requests are harder to refuse because of gender baggage and expectations, and to avoid any possible perception that you are making a move on their spouse.
Regardless of whatever is going on, these are her issues to resolve, you did nothing wrong but have apologized, and you can now move on in good faith.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:20 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is super common in my experience, and requests for one person's help are suprisingly often routed through the other spouse even by otherwise non-traditional people. I think this is done both because there is a sense that sometimes direct requests are harder to refuse because of gender baggage and expectations, and to avoid any possible perception that you are making a move on their spouse.
Regardless of whatever is going on, these are her issues to resolve, you did nothing wrong but have apologized, and you can now move on in good faith.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:20 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don't really get this. What would this look like? "hey guys there's a huge fire at work and it really sucks because my dog needs to be walked." That's basically the same thing except with a heap of passive-agression. No.
Yes, this is how Guess culture works. It can seem strange to outsiders, but it seems very rational and peaceful to insiders. There are exceptions for urgent needs (and of course literal emergencies) in Guess culture, but there are generally ways to work around directly asking for help, even in fairly urgent situations. One way is to ask someone you wish to get something from about their current commitments prior . If you had done this with your friend, he would have said something about visiting family and you could have moved on to the next person. Another way is to ask for information instead of a favor: "Do you know anyone who would be able to walk my dog?" Which allows them to offer themselves or not, depending on their availability.
So, yes, depending on the details of your communications with her husband, you may have transgressed the norms of Guess culture. THAT SAID, part of most Guess culture I am familiar with is also avoiding direct confrontation with people who have transgressed the norms, so it is strange that your friend's wife and child have directed their displeasure towards you. It does suggest that there is something else going on, possibly in the dynamic between your friend and his wife, but that gets into pretty deep speculation, if you ask me.
Really, you have done nothing wrong other than possibly violating some behavioral norms that seem to be on the far end of what is typically expected. You have apologized, and that should be sufficient - your friend's wife may not be responding to your apology out of embarrassment for violating her own norms by confronting you - though you may want to make a mental note of her expectations if you want to avoid similar bad feelings in the future.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:04 AM on June 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yes, this is how Guess culture works. It can seem strange to outsiders, but it seems very rational and peaceful to insiders. There are exceptions for urgent needs (and of course literal emergencies) in Guess culture, but there are generally ways to work around directly asking for help, even in fairly urgent situations. One way is to ask someone you wish to get something from about their current commitments prior . If you had done this with your friend, he would have said something about visiting family and you could have moved on to the next person. Another way is to ask for information instead of a favor: "Do you know anyone who would be able to walk my dog?" Which allows them to offer themselves or not, depending on their availability.
So, yes, depending on the details of your communications with her husband, you may have transgressed the norms of Guess culture. THAT SAID, part of most Guess culture I am familiar with is also avoiding direct confrontation with people who have transgressed the norms, so it is strange that your friend's wife and child have directed their displeasure towards you. It does suggest that there is something else going on, possibly in the dynamic between your friend and his wife, but that gets into pretty deep speculation, if you ask me.
Really, you have done nothing wrong other than possibly violating some behavioral norms that seem to be on the far end of what is typically expected. You have apologized, and that should be sufficient - your friend's wife may not be responding to your apology out of embarrassment for violating her own norms by confronting you - though you may want to make a mental note of her expectations if you want to avoid similar bad feelings in the future.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:04 AM on June 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
so like if you want a favor from a man, you ask his wife if he can do it, and she gatekeeps the request based on her own friendship with you, and she is the one that gives you an answer.
If she's better at understanding the value of emotional labor, then a gatekeeper role might be the only way she can stay sane.
Also, taking a friend's dog for a walk might be seen as a "fun" chore that she'd love to be able to do, but instead she's continually cleaning, cooking, organizing, calling people, and basically working herself to exhaustion just _trying_ to provide an opportunity for her husband to bond with his children -- and then he runs off for a couple of hours to do something by himself that lets him get some fresh air and puppy play time.
So, yeah, I'd probably be furious too. You are right to be surprised, I guess, and it would have been _nice_ if you'd considered all this; and, in some cultures, this degree of consideration would be expected (I keep thinking of Regency book settings, but also admonitions by my own mother, and my own set of personal standards -- if I know someone has out-of-town company, I don't ask them for casual favors.). But it's generally been women who have this degree of consideration, so don't beat yourself up, I guess? But it would be nice if you understood that what is a casual favor for you might be messing up the hoped-for result of weeks' worth of preparation and labor on her part.
So, yeah, maybe give more weight and consideration to other people's emotional labor.
Her being furious with you, at you, is maybe not helpful, but I find it understandable.
posted by amtho at 7:21 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
If she's better at understanding the value of emotional labor, then a gatekeeper role might be the only way she can stay sane.
Also, taking a friend's dog for a walk might be seen as a "fun" chore that she'd love to be able to do, but instead she's continually cleaning, cooking, organizing, calling people, and basically working herself to exhaustion just _trying_ to provide an opportunity for her husband to bond with his children -- and then he runs off for a couple of hours to do something by himself that lets him get some fresh air and puppy play time.
So, yeah, I'd probably be furious too. You are right to be surprised, I guess, and it would have been _nice_ if you'd considered all this; and, in some cultures, this degree of consideration would be expected (I keep thinking of Regency book settings, but also admonitions by my own mother, and my own set of personal standards -- if I know someone has out-of-town company, I don't ask them for casual favors.). But it's generally been women who have this degree of consideration, so don't beat yourself up, I guess? But it would be nice if you understood that what is a casual favor for you might be messing up the hoped-for result of weeks' worth of preparation and labor on her part.
So, yeah, maybe give more weight and consideration to other people's emotional labor.
Her being furious with you, at you, is maybe not helpful, but I find it understandable.
posted by amtho at 7:21 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
One thing I missed in your question is, did your friends ever actually talk to you about their kids being in town? You said you saw a post on FB, but it seems really weird to expect that everyone saw that post and plans accordingly. It doesn’t seem right to get angry at you for intruding on out-of-town family time if they never told you, with words, that it WAS out-of-town family time.
posted by Weeping_angel at 7:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 7:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I totally missed that you're female. Sorry! But it changes my understanding of it completely.
Her text to you is code for "back off my man. His labor and time and attention is for his family, not you. Get lost."
The emergency nature of it actually makes her more annoyed, not less. The people we call in emergencies are the people we have deep, permanent ties to, not superficial social acquaintances. Far more threatening. I theorized earlier she dislikes you for a personal reason; I think now that she dislikes your friendship because she perceives you as competition for his attention -- which, in a practical sense, you were in this case. He literally left the family event to go do your thing.
I still don't think you did anything wrong, you had to get the dog situation dealt with, but you may want to take his wife into consideration more in future. In this case, texting both of them might have been the way to go.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:58 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Her text to you is code for "back off my man. His labor and time and attention is for his family, not you. Get lost."
The emergency nature of it actually makes her more annoyed, not less. The people we call in emergencies are the people we have deep, permanent ties to, not superficial social acquaintances. Far more threatening. I theorized earlier she dislikes you for a personal reason; I think now that she dislikes your friendship because she perceives you as competition for his attention -- which, in a practical sense, you were in this case. He literally left the family event to go do your thing.
I still don't think you did anything wrong, you had to get the dog situation dealt with, but you may want to take his wife into consideration more in future. In this case, texting both of them might have been the way to go.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:58 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
The emergency nature of it actually makes her more annoyed, not less. The people we call in emergencies are the people we have deep, permanent ties to, not superficial social acquaintances.
Yikes this must be something which varies quite widely across cultures, because in my experience the people you call in an emergency are **literally everyone** because it is an **emergency** and you can't be dicking around with your social hierarchy seating charts while shit is on fire.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:03 AM on June 4, 2018 [28 favorites]
Yikes this must be something which varies quite widely across cultures, because in my experience the people you call in an emergency are **literally everyone** because it is an **emergency** and you can't be dicking around with your social hierarchy seating charts while shit is on fire.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:03 AM on June 4, 2018 [28 favorites]
^^^... then he runs off for a couple of hours to do something by himself that lets him get some fresh air and puppy play time.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the husband was gone for a "couple of hours." Per the OP:
The words "a casual favor" -- to me -- imply that OP was out of the house doing Something Fun and prioritized continuing doing Something Fun over going home and tending to her own sick pet. In this case, though, OP had to rush downtown to work to deal with a fire- or flood-level emergency.
It's up to OP's friend to know his own family's social calendar.
posted by virago at 8:15 AM on June 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the husband was gone for a "couple of hours." Per the OP:
He lives five minutes from my door and was gone from his house probably a grand total of 20 minutes in the course of taking down the dog. I said thank you, and that was that.It would be nice if you understood that what is a casual favor for you might be messing up the hoped-for result of weeks' worth of preparation and labor on her part.
The words "a casual favor" -- to me -- imply that OP was out of the house doing Something Fun and prioritized continuing doing Something Fun over going home and tending to her own sick pet. In this case, though, OP had to rush downtown to work to deal with a fire- or flood-level emergency.
It's up to OP's friend to know his own family's social calendar.
posted by virago at 8:15 AM on June 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
Best answer: Like, "oh, X is an acquaintance more than a friend, better not presume" is a calculation for "who will dogsit when I'm on vacation in 6 weeks" not "holy shit my dog is ill and my office is on fire and neither of these things can go unattended in the next three hours."
That said, it is also in my experience that some people don't consider either work or pets to be emergency-worthy circumstances, more or less ever? You say your friend's wife is a "nester" which makes me think that yeah, maybe she is one of them. That's valuable information to have for any future interactions with her (though I'd imagine there won't be any), but not the kind of thing you could reasonably have been expected to know, especially under emergency circumstances. So yeah, you're not in any objective wrong here, even if you're in the wrong by her personal standards.
(And nth-ing that she's probably most angry at her husband for not understanding her standards correctly, but because Family Is The Most Important Thing, she can't let herself be mad at him.)
Also just for the record that thing where single people should have to juggle 100% of their own lives and also bail out their married friends who can't help them bc MARRIED, is fucking bullshit. I mean I'm sure it's real, but it's bullshit.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:16 AM on June 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
That said, it is also in my experience that some people don't consider either work or pets to be emergency-worthy circumstances, more or less ever? You say your friend's wife is a "nester" which makes me think that yeah, maybe she is one of them. That's valuable information to have for any future interactions with her (though I'd imagine there won't be any), but not the kind of thing you could reasonably have been expected to know, especially under emergency circumstances. So yeah, you're not in any objective wrong here, even if you're in the wrong by her personal standards.
(And nth-ing that she's probably most angry at her husband for not understanding her standards correctly, but because Family Is The Most Important Thing, she can't let herself be mad at him.)
Also just for the record that thing where single people should have to juggle 100% of their own lives and also bail out their married friends who can't help them bc MARRIED, is fucking bullshit. I mean I'm sure it's real, but it's bullshit.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:16 AM on June 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
You needed the gift of 20 minutes in an emergency situation. You did not have the luxury of time to run through your list of "socially appropriate" people to ask for favors. By contrast, your friend's wife had PLENTY of time to consider the circumstances, correctly identify the source of her anger, and handle it in a way that didn't involve leaving a nastygram in your messages. You are far from impoverished by your friend's wife's current silence.
Frankly, given the way in which she took her anger out on you, consider it a form of wealth.*
*I have a very limited tolerance for adults who handle negative emotions this way. Your personal levels of same may vary. But leaving people who can't ground/center/discern "on read," whether mentally or literally, will keep peace in your home.
posted by Ashen at 8:20 AM on June 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
Frankly, given the way in which she took her anger out on you, consider it a form of wealth.*
*I have a very limited tolerance for adults who handle negative emotions this way. Your personal levels of same may vary. But leaving people who can't ground/center/discern "on read," whether mentally or literally, will keep peace in your home.
posted by Ashen at 8:20 AM on June 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
When someone gets really over the top mad about something, I've realized it's never, and I really mean never, about me or the request. Something else is going on with them. So your conscience should be clear, but I wouldn't interact with her again because sheesh, that's a ridiculous response.
Also, as a single person surrounded by married people... yeah, it's pretty much assumed you are quietly sitting in a dark room waiting for a phone call to relieve you from your miserable solo existence.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:21 AM on June 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also, as a single person surrounded by married people... yeah, it's pretty much assumed you are quietly sitting in a dark room waiting for a phone call to relieve you from your miserable solo existence.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:21 AM on June 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
I apologize for calling her immature because I can totally see a scenario now where he hasn't been available to the family and/or his communication with them is poor, which caused this WHOLE thing.
Further, he deftly shifted the onus towards you by oversharing, didn't he? Spread the guilt around in his own mind, maybe?
He should never ever have told you about their anger.
posted by jbenben at 8:29 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Further, he deftly shifted the onus towards you by oversharing, didn't he? Spread the guilt around in his own mind, maybe?
He should never ever have told you about their anger.
posted by jbenben at 8:29 AM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Coming back for a second time to add that, not only did you not do anything wrong, your friend's wife is the one who is being extremely rude to you by airing her marital dirty laundry and blaming you for her problems with her own husband's behaviour. He should not have shared any of this with you, either.
Seriously, he took 20 minutes away from the family gathering to help a friend, who lives 5 minutes away, with a sick pet. How much time did she take away from playing matriarch of the extended happy family to bitch about the situation, and then to get on Facebook and get nasty with you?
The woman has problems, and they're not yours. You've apologized, and I'd leave it be for now. (In fact, part of me thinks that she's the one who should be trying to make nice with you from now on.)
posted by rpfields at 8:31 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Seriously, he took 20 minutes away from the family gathering to help a friend, who lives 5 minutes away, with a sick pet. How much time did she take away from playing matriarch of the extended happy family to bitch about the situation, and then to get on Facebook and get nasty with you?
The woman has problems, and they're not yours. You've apologized, and I'd leave it be for now. (In fact, part of me thinks that she's the one who should be trying to make nice with you from now on.)
posted by rpfields at 8:31 AM on June 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Her text to you is code for "back off my man. His labor and time and attention is for his family, not you. Get lost."
I actually strongly disagree on this one. I think it's more like - hmm. Okay, so if you've grown up in a culture that has a plethora of really clear, but unspoken rules, it is sometimes frankly bewildering when people go against them, and you don't always immediately assume that the other person is just coming from a different culture, even if that's what's going on.
A good example is like - when I was growing up, it was considered impolite to ask anyone to do anything before noon on Sunday, because it was assumed you were cutting into their church time. BUT there were a lot of assumptions that went into that - assuming people were religious, assuming that if they were they were Christian and regularly went to church on Sunday mornings. And so if someone asked for a favor that didn't seem absolute dire emergency on a Sunday morning, they might well get an upset response - not so much for asking for the favor, but the perceived inconsideration of how the ask was made on a Sunday, without the consideration that they might have different religious views.
So she texts, "You should have realised that was a completely inappropriate request given how little time we have together with the whole family." You say, "both of their adult children were visiting this weekend. Even though they didn't have any special plans, she said I should have known I was ruining their day"
This sounds, honestly, like a really clear mismatch between some strong expectations of How The World Is. For you, it sounds like pets and their comfort are a large priority for you (and many other posters! You're not alone!) and your default assumption is that other people will prioritize it accordingly. This is not an unreasonable expectation, it is a shared cultural expectation among a large set of people. But as We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese points out, that's not always universal. There are also a lot of people who would not have considered that an emergency, because the dog would be uncomfortable and in pain and sad but would not actually be in risk of death - and if they had to judge between humans being uncomfortable and sad and dogs being uncomfortable and sad, they would generally let the dogs be uncomfortable. (Personally, I would let the humans be uncomfortable because they are capable of understanding, but people are different!) So even though the situation to you was an emergency, it sounds like the wife did not consider it an emergency and thus worthy of overturning social rules.
However, it also sounds like you both have a strong mismatch about What It Means To Have The Whole Family Together. Like, to me, personally, putting the whole family in one place is a special plan even if you're not Doing Anything. The special plan is to build and strengthen family ties with adult children who are not frequently with her. I would also be really upset if someone was asking for nonemergency (which is what it sounds like she thought) favors on such a day. But it sounds even aside from the emergency situation, like you may not have viewed this as anything particularly special because they didn't have any specific events planned.
If you want to smooth this over, I would write her back an apology (whether or not you feel it is deserved or accurate) saying some variant of "I'm so sorry, you know that I live alone and my dog is like a baby to me, and I was so worried and afraid for him that it completely blew out of my mind that you and Husband were having this special weekend with your children! I never would have asked otherwise. I hope it went well otherwise." Essentially, emphasizing your vulnerability (living alone!) and unchilded state (which you may or not MIND, but I'm just talking for apology purposes) along with an acknowledgement of how important family is and a statement that you won't do this again intentionally. This way, even if she's still mad, she feels like you're not an inconsiderate person.
But your mileage may vary on somewhat insincere apologies: I think this situation is basically exactly what they're made for, but it might stick in your craw since it's basically a 'your worldview is right and just and I am apologizing inside it'.
posted by corb at 8:40 AM on June 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
I actually strongly disagree on this one. I think it's more like - hmm. Okay, so if you've grown up in a culture that has a plethora of really clear, but unspoken rules, it is sometimes frankly bewildering when people go against them, and you don't always immediately assume that the other person is just coming from a different culture, even if that's what's going on.
A good example is like - when I was growing up, it was considered impolite to ask anyone to do anything before noon on Sunday, because it was assumed you were cutting into their church time. BUT there were a lot of assumptions that went into that - assuming people were religious, assuming that if they were they were Christian and regularly went to church on Sunday mornings. And so if someone asked for a favor that didn't seem absolute dire emergency on a Sunday morning, they might well get an upset response - not so much for asking for the favor, but the perceived inconsideration of how the ask was made on a Sunday, without the consideration that they might have different religious views.
So she texts, "You should have realised that was a completely inappropriate request given how little time we have together with the whole family." You say, "both of their adult children were visiting this weekend. Even though they didn't have any special plans, she said I should have known I was ruining their day"
This sounds, honestly, like a really clear mismatch between some strong expectations of How The World Is. For you, it sounds like pets and their comfort are a large priority for you (and many other posters! You're not alone!) and your default assumption is that other people will prioritize it accordingly. This is not an unreasonable expectation, it is a shared cultural expectation among a large set of people. But as We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese points out, that's not always universal. There are also a lot of people who would not have considered that an emergency, because the dog would be uncomfortable and in pain and sad but would not actually be in risk of death - and if they had to judge between humans being uncomfortable and sad and dogs being uncomfortable and sad, they would generally let the dogs be uncomfortable. (Personally, I would let the humans be uncomfortable because they are capable of understanding, but people are different!) So even though the situation to you was an emergency, it sounds like the wife did not consider it an emergency and thus worthy of overturning social rules.
However, it also sounds like you both have a strong mismatch about What It Means To Have The Whole Family Together. Like, to me, personally, putting the whole family in one place is a special plan even if you're not Doing Anything. The special plan is to build and strengthen family ties with adult children who are not frequently with her. I would also be really upset if someone was asking for nonemergency (which is what it sounds like she thought) favors on such a day. But it sounds even aside from the emergency situation, like you may not have viewed this as anything particularly special because they didn't have any specific events planned.
If you want to smooth this over, I would write her back an apology (whether or not you feel it is deserved or accurate) saying some variant of "I'm so sorry, you know that I live alone and my dog is like a baby to me, and I was so worried and afraid for him that it completely blew out of my mind that you and Husband were having this special weekend with your children! I never would have asked otherwise. I hope it went well otherwise." Essentially, emphasizing your vulnerability (living alone!) and unchilded state (which you may or not MIND, but I'm just talking for apology purposes) along with an acknowledgement of how important family is and a statement that you won't do this again intentionally. This way, even if she's still mad, she feels like you're not an inconsiderate person.
But your mileage may vary on somewhat insincere apologies: I think this situation is basically exactly what they're made for, but it might stick in your craw since it's basically a 'your worldview is right and just and I am apologizing inside it'.
posted by corb at 8:40 AM on June 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
“Single people are more in a position to be spontaneous, fun, pursue their passions etc.”
Yes, fun passions like attending to work emergencies and sick dogs, lol.
OP, I wanted to join in the “you did nothing wrong” chorus. But I also wanted to mention something I don’t see anyone else talking about, namely you having a key to their house and doing occasional favors for them. If I were you, I’d find some way to stop doing that and subtly distance yourself from this family. Not saying to cut them off or anything, just become busier with other friends or work. The wife's extreme reaction, the kid’s involvement, possibly even your friend’s behavior (its hard to know exactly what went on with them privately, so we can’t say) are all just red flags of immaturity and drama to me. I’m imagining you going to their house to water a plant when they’re away and accidentally breaking a glass and her going into full aggressive meltdown at you. Or you *not* breaking something and her blaming a broken thing on you anyway. Or worse. The whole thing just screams “back away slowly.”
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
Yes, fun passions like attending to work emergencies and sick dogs, lol.
OP, I wanted to join in the “you did nothing wrong” chorus. But I also wanted to mention something I don’t see anyone else talking about, namely you having a key to their house and doing occasional favors for them. If I were you, I’d find some way to stop doing that and subtly distance yourself from this family. Not saying to cut them off or anything, just become busier with other friends or work. The wife's extreme reaction, the kid’s involvement, possibly even your friend’s behavior (its hard to know exactly what went on with them privately, so we can’t say) are all just red flags of immaturity and drama to me. I’m imagining you going to their house to water a plant when they’re away and accidentally breaking a glass and her going into full aggressive meltdown at you. Or you *not* breaking something and her blaming a broken thing on you anyway. Or worse. The whole thing just screams “back away slowly.”
posted by DestinationUnknown at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
I'm guessing the visit didn't go the way she hoped and she is seizing on this thing as a way of explaining what went wrong when in fact it had to do with stuff she doesn't want to admit or confront.
This would totally have been my mom. Because, y'know, there's no way it could be her fault, especially when she knows deep down it is.
posted by Doohickie at 10:06 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
This would totally have been my mom. Because, y'know, there's no way it could be her fault, especially when she knows deep down it is.
posted by Doohickie at 10:06 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
The fact that you are a single woman encroaching on her man's time is definitely the way I read this. Because his time is hers. Because he is hers. She sounds, unfortunately, like someone I know, named A, with a tendency to lash out and attack people she perceives as challenging her place as queen of her world. If A's husband doesn't answer her texts immediately because he's talking to someone else, she lashes out at that person for occupying her husband's attention and preventing him from texting her back fast enough. Yes their kids were in town, but there's always a reason you were doing some terrible thing to bypass her and take the husband's time with someone like this. People like this tend to surround themselves with others who defer to them, flatter them, constantly stroke their egos and tell them in a thousand ways that they're the most important person in any situation, deserving off all the attention in the room. When someone else obliviously messes up that narrative and challenges A's position, she attacks. The content of the FB text OP quoted made my hair stand up on the back of my next because the tone, wording and everything sounded so exactly like A.
Stay away from this family if you don't want to perform elaborate flattery rituals for the wife. That's the only thing to do.
posted by nantucket at 10:09 AM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Stay away from this family if you don't want to perform elaborate flattery rituals for the wife. That's the only thing to do.
posted by nantucket at 10:09 AM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
I can definitely see what might have prompted her tirade (she was already angry at her husband for real or perceived slights re: family time) but NONE OF THAT is on you, not even a little bit. She was completely out of line to challenge you, she is - at best - misplacing any real frustrations she might feel for her husband.
I'm sorry that happened, it sounds terribly upsetting and confusing. I would have been thrown for a loop too, if I were you, because you did nothing wrong. Whether the husband did is between him and his wife and you should have been left 150% out of it.
posted by lydhre at 10:56 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry that happened, it sounds terribly upsetting and confusing. I would have been thrown for a loop too, if I were you, because you did nothing wrong. Whether the husband did is between him and his wife and you should have been left 150% out of it.
posted by lydhre at 10:56 AM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: One thing that seems to be missing from the manners/culture aspect is that some people would not even consider saying No to an emergency request presented by a friend, especially so if they thought they were the only ones asked/available to help. I don't necessarily think you did anything wrong at all here, but perhaps if something like this ever happens again, you could exclude this family from requests for help when you know they have family time scheduled, seeing as it's possible that they could be reacting more towards feeling as though it would be a Big Fat Huge Rude Faux Pas to ever decline such a request from a family friend, and feeling as though you were being inconsiderate to present them with a Can't Say No Ask during family time. Im not saying you were actually inconsiderate, it's just that some people might feel obliged vs. wanting/being able to help, or feel that they can't decline, feel disrespected/taken advantage of at convenience/priority etc. This is totally a culture clash thing though.
The character assumptions and judgements on the wife are appalling. No one here knows what's going on in that marriage at all. The fact that one of the adult children is also upset, could reasonably also suggest that the version of the story/events presented to the family by this man, or the friend by this man, may not have necessarily been entirely accurate either and Since He Can't Say No, perhaps he also Didn't Take Personal Accountability in this situation with everyone involved. It's so much easier (and so common) for some men to passively brush off their own responsibilities in any matter, when their wife is Just So Totally Unreasonable. I'd be more inclined to presume/give the benefit of doubt that "there's something going on that you don't know about," in that marriage vs. this woman and her adult child are Just Suddenly and Totally Unreasonable and Explosive over a 20 minute non-event in their day.
I mean yeah wow, maybe she and her child actually are both completely crazy, controlling and total lose cannons. But have you seen this often or before personally as a family friend? Or maybe we as a "culture" need to stop pointing the finger at/piling on/blaming/shaming Women As A Whole for Any Negative Display of Emotion and labelling it as mental illness without any just cause.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:27 AM on June 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
The character assumptions and judgements on the wife are appalling. No one here knows what's going on in that marriage at all. The fact that one of the adult children is also upset, could reasonably also suggest that the version of the story/events presented to the family by this man, or the friend by this man, may not have necessarily been entirely accurate either and Since He Can't Say No, perhaps he also Didn't Take Personal Accountability in this situation with everyone involved. It's so much easier (and so common) for some men to passively brush off their own responsibilities in any matter, when their wife is Just So Totally Unreasonable. I'd be more inclined to presume/give the benefit of doubt that "there's something going on that you don't know about," in that marriage vs. this woman and her adult child are Just Suddenly and Totally Unreasonable and Explosive over a 20 minute non-event in their day.
I mean yeah wow, maybe she and her child actually are both completely crazy, controlling and total lose cannons. But have you seen this often or before personally as a family friend? Or maybe we as a "culture" need to stop pointing the finger at/piling on/blaming/shaming Women As A Whole for Any Negative Display of Emotion and labelling it as mental illness without any just cause.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:27 AM on June 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
wife's reaction is over the top crazy dramatic. you floated a favor request to multiple people. Your friend could have said no, he could have asked his wife before telling you yes. There is something else going on here with your relationship to this couple and it may be something only the wife perceives.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:50 AM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 11:50 AM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks! It’s very helpful (and interesting) to know there are so many cultures around favors. It would never have occurred to me that one partner should be a gatekeeper on another partner’s time, regardless of gender. It has never been that way in any of my relationships and it would never have occurred to me to consider it. Nor would I consider married people would expect be approached differently than single people about favors. They have both asked me for (occasional neighborly) favors in the past. I truly have seen no signs in the past that she is an awful person, and— as noted— prefer not to believe it. I can only assume I hit one of the invisible tripwires helpfully noted above or there’s something else going on with them which created the reaction. (And don’t worry— they’re off my favor list going forward. I don’t want to cause more stress for anyone.)
posted by frumiousb at 12:21 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 12:21 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
The character assumptions and judgements on the wife are appalling. No one here knows what's going on in that marriage at all.
What's appalling to some of us feminists, and the reason our analysis does not give the wife the benefit of the doubt, has nothing to do with how the wife treats her husband. What's appalling is that she verbally attacked another woman who dared to ask for help. She made the OP doubt herself for asking for help. For some of us, the wife's anger expression -- how dare you ask for help of MY HUSBAND -- is part of the internalized patriarchy, not a symptom of the wife's emotional labor.
posted by nantucket at 12:59 PM on June 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
What's appalling to some of us feminists, and the reason our analysis does not give the wife the benefit of the doubt, has nothing to do with how the wife treats her husband. What's appalling is that she verbally attacked another woman who dared to ask for help. She made the OP doubt herself for asking for help. For some of us, the wife's anger expression -- how dare you ask for help of MY HUSBAND -- is part of the internalized patriarchy, not a symptom of the wife's emotional labor.
posted by nantucket at 12:59 PM on June 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
Best answer: Agreed with everyone but wanted to add...what I would do in this situation (I'm an Ask person) is wait until things settled down. And then I would get in touch with her and say "I've had this on my mind a little bit...when I asked [husband] to help with my work emergency and my dog, you seemed quite upset. Could I ask you how you'd prefer I handle this? I really appreciate the way our households are able do trade favours for each other, but I don't want that to be a source of friction between us."
Then let her tell you what the issue is. Because otherwise we're just guessing, plus it may make her more aware. Then you can decide if you dare venture into the pit again.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:11 PM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Then let her tell you what the issue is. Because otherwise we're just guessing, plus it may make her more aware. Then you can decide if you dare venture into the pit again.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:11 PM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Maybe you did this and I missed it, but one way to maybe avoid conflict next time is to make the request of both of them, thereby acknowledging their partnership. Something like, "Hey, does either one of you guys have 20 mins to walk my dog this afternoon? I've had a work emergency come up."
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:28 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:28 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
The fact that you are a single woman encroaching on her man's time is definitely the way I read this.
Me too. This reminds me of when I needed help moving heavy things back into place after some work was done on my house so I invited several burly male work friends to come by to help. The ones who had girlfriends were super annoyed at me and asked my friends why didn't I have a boyfriend to do that. Never mind that we all worked together, it took 20 minutes, and they got pizza and beer on their way home. I literally could not have done it alone.
I'm sorry this happened. It is super bewildering when people have a whole bunch of unwritten expectations that seem one-directional. If you have pet-sat for them, your request for help was reasonable even if had not been an emergency and even if you had not asked others too. I happily help neighbors look for lost pets or help out otherwise when I'm late for work or have other stuff to do. It's just neighborly. I think what you did was very reasonable but that doesn't stop someone else from weaponizing something that is kind of about them.
posted by *s at 4:11 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Me too. This reminds me of when I needed help moving heavy things back into place after some work was done on my house so I invited several burly male work friends to come by to help. The ones who had girlfriends were super annoyed at me and asked my friends why didn't I have a boyfriend to do that. Never mind that we all worked together, it took 20 minutes, and they got pizza and beer on their way home. I literally could not have done it alone.
I'm sorry this happened. It is super bewildering when people have a whole bunch of unwritten expectations that seem one-directional. If you have pet-sat for them, your request for help was reasonable even if had not been an emergency and even if you had not asked others too. I happily help neighbors look for lost pets or help out otherwise when I'm late for work or have other stuff to do. It's just neighborly. I think what you did was very reasonable but that doesn't stop someone else from weaponizing something that is kind of about them.
posted by *s at 4:11 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh also, I want to be clear that I dont think you did anything wrong by asking (I'm strongly guess culture). This is a problem between the guy and his wife and you shouldn't feel responsible at all. I just thought maybe by asking the favor of the two of them in the future it sort tacitly acknowledges they are a team and keeps the guy from making it seem like you sprung an emergecy request on him alone that he couldnt say no to (if that's what he did).
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:25 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:25 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh, for fucks sake. Unless you are asking favors of this man specifically several times a week, I do not understand why this woman blew up like this. You had an emergency and generally asked for help. He said yes. It was half a flippin' hour! That woman is redonk. Be glad you aren't married to her.
posted by Foam Pants at 11:48 PM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Foam Pants at 11:48 PM on June 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
The character assumptions and judgements on the wife are appalling. No one here knows what's going on in that marriage at all.
That's kind of the point of what everyone has been saying. The marriage doesn't include OP, so why is the anger directed at her when it would properly be directed toward the husband, who is, you know, the other party to the marriage? It's not necessarily inappropriate that she got angry; maybe this issue has come up with her and the husband before. What's inappropriate is that she got angry at someone who has absolutely nothing to do with why she's actually angry and, more to the point, actually took affirmative steps to make that person (the OP) feel bad. If I were the OP, I'd feel hurt and attacked as well, and I think that's a totally rational response to the wife's behavior.
posted by holborne at 8:39 AM on June 5, 2018 [10 favorites]
That's kind of the point of what everyone has been saying. The marriage doesn't include OP, so why is the anger directed at her when it would properly be directed toward the husband, who is, you know, the other party to the marriage? It's not necessarily inappropriate that she got angry; maybe this issue has come up with her and the husband before. What's inappropriate is that she got angry at someone who has absolutely nothing to do with why she's actually angry and, more to the point, actually took affirmative steps to make that person (the OP) feel bad. If I were the OP, I'd feel hurt and attacked as well, and I think that's a totally rational response to the wife's behavior.
posted by holborne at 8:39 AM on June 5, 2018 [10 favorites]
"Could I ask you how you'd prefer I handle this? I really appreciate the way our households are able do trade favours for each other, but I don't want that to be a source of friction between us."
If you do this, be braced for a reply of, "you don't have a household; you're single!" That would confirm that she's working from the concept that you have no notable obligations and it's always okay to call on you for a favor, since you have plenty of "free time" and even your job is just a selfish indulgence, since you're not supporting a family with it.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:03 AM on June 6, 2018
If you do this, be braced for a reply of, "you don't have a household; you're single!" That would confirm that she's working from the concept that you have no notable obligations and it's always okay to call on you for a favor, since you have plenty of "free time" and even your job is just a selfish indulgence, since you're not supporting a family with it.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:03 AM on June 6, 2018
If you do this, be braced for a reply of, "you don't have a household; you're single!"
Better the devil you know.
posted by yohko at 2:20 PM on June 6, 2018
Better the devil you know.
posted by yohko at 2:20 PM on June 6, 2018
Response by poster: Hi all, I wanted to give you an update on this question. I put distance between myself and this couple-- came up with a polite reason to return their key. I heard later from a mutual friend unrelated to this case that the couple in question is having marriage issues. In an odd way it made me feel a bit better (although sorry for them) since it made it clearer it wasn't about my asking for a favour, but about whatever was going on with the two of them. It also makes me feel better about keeping my distance going forward. Thanks for all the energy and thoughts in the response.
posted by frumiousb at 5:51 PM on July 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 5:51 PM on July 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2018 [144 favorites]