I screwed up in college, now want to try again.

February 7, 2006 9:42 AM

I failed out of two colleges while attending as a traditional-aged student (teen-20's) for academic problems, but I do have many credits from the classes I managed to pass. As a 26-year-old adult, what are my chances for getting into a competitive school now that I have my head on straight and would like to return? I'm interested in studying linguistics, which is offered at only the toughest schools (UVA, William and Mary) in my state, and would need to stay in-state for financial, family, and health reasons.
posted by juniper to Education (29 answers total)

How far did you get into your requirements when you were screwing up? If not far, you might be best off going to NoVA (or the equiv since you seem to be south of me) and finishing your first two years with some distinction before applying.

You're not the first person nor will you be the last who floundered and came back to try again. Plenty of late-starters go on to excel and W&M will know that. The problem you have to overcome is the question they'll ask when you apply: "Why should we believe you're less a screw-up now than you were then?"

Typically a community college is how you do that.
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on February 7, 2006

I will second going to a local community college first. Find out what you can transfer from there to your prospective schools' programs and then really try hard in those classes (I would hope nothing less than a 4.0 there for a couple semesters). There should be plenty prereq type classes you can take to bolster your cause.
Furthermore, why not talk to the admissions office at UVA and W&M? If you went in person I'm willing to bet that someone would see your sincerity and give you a very straight answer on what your chances are and what you can do to help them.
posted by wolfkult at 9:59 AM on February 7, 2006

Community college, yes. Or taking continuing/adult education courses at the school you wish to attend. Be prepared for a HUGE fight. It can be done, but you'll be met with resistence every step of the way, and you'll have to explain why you screwed up over and over until you'll want to clamp your face in a waffle iron. (Unless you fall in with an empathetic advisor, which is key.) I went through this same thing recently, and it took a year of community college, and several long, naval-gazing letters to the school I wanted to attend. They rejected me outright, but I pushed and met with advisors and solicted recommendations from several professors. I don't mean to sound negative -- from my perspective and anecdotal experience, you can get into the school you want, but you have to be ready for a battle, especially with an upper-tier school. As long as you're persistent and consistent in your follow-ups and phone calls, you'll be on track.

(Then again, you may have a completely different experience than I did, and I hope you do.) I'm about your age, and had a similar experience, so feel free to e-mail me for a more in-depth explanation.
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:04 AM on February 7, 2006

Response by poster: I considered the community college method, but, really, in my combined efforts at college 1, NOVA in between, college 2, and some online classes I took a couple of years ago, I have something like 70+ credits. Does it still make sense to go back? I've finished the basic gen-ed classes, so if I did go back to community college or take more online classes, what should I even take? English classes?
posted by juniper at 10:04 AM on February 7, 2006

Mostly what you'd be going to community college to bring up your GPA and prove that you're serious about school and your coursework. It definitely doesn't hurt to go the direct route to the school first (talking face-to-face with Admissions and academic advisors), but there's a high chance they'll suggest the same thing. Good luck, by the way. It's totally worth it once you get back in.
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:07 AM on February 7, 2006

I'll second talking to the Admissions office. Virtually every public school in the country has an admissions person who specializes in returning adult students.

Community college credit is probably not as valuable to a top tier school as you would like it to be. Consider taking classes during the summer, at UVa or W&M. Both offer summer programs that are open to anyone who has a high school diploma (You're considered an "Unclassified Student"). Take classes that are relevant to your intended course of study.

Summer courses are academically demanding, you are taking a semester's worth of class in a significantly shorter period of time. Admissions officers know this, and would much rather see you with good summer grades than good community college grades.

At the same time, if you aren't ready for university work (and not everyone is), a summer session will expose this immediately.
posted by toxic at 10:10 AM on February 7, 2006

I decided to go to law school 10 years after graduating with a 2.1 GPA (readjusted to a 1.8 by the LSAT/LSDAS people). They turned me down the first time but I was admitted the second time I applied. Looking back on it I wonder if they don't have some, possibly unwritten, policy about rejecting students with a subpar past the first time they apply as a way of determining how serious they are. After I was rejected the first time I met with the Dean of Admissions and asked what I could do to make myself more attractive. I also finagled a meeting with the Dean of the Law School. My point is don't give up if you are turned down the first go round.

Also, ask about attending on a probationary basis.
posted by Carbolic at 10:16 AM on February 7, 2006

Many colleges, including UVa but not W&M apparently, have progams like UVa's "Community Scholar Program," wherein admissions standards are considerably relaxed and you take a few classes part-time in their School of Continuing and Professional Studies. Should you succeed in these classes, admission to the regular university is basically automatic. Its kind of like admission on automatic probation, but for twenty-somethings rather than teenagers, which sounds like basically where you are at. Your classes will be full of people in precisely the same boat as you, so it should be a nice way to ease back in. Bonus: this program seems particularly geared toward VA locals.

I've known two non-traditional students around me with less than stellar performances in "regular college" who have gone through similar "University Scholar" probationary programs, and both now attend competitive schools full time. Its something I'd highly recommend.
posted by ChasFile at 10:25 AM on February 7, 2006

I can't comment on UVA, but my personal experience at William and Mary was not good. I found them very unwilling to accommodate me as a non-traditional student. (Long story short... I was attending full-time and due to family obligations I needed to drop down to part-time -- the university refused to allow me. No, seriously.) Also, I can tell you from experience that there are very, very few older undergraduates at W&M, especially for a state school.

However, if your concern is admissions -- at W&M, you can apply as an unclassified student, take a few classes to prove yourself, and then transfer to a degree program. At least that's the way it used to be...

Another thing to consider is the fact that a linguisitics degree from either W&M or UVA will require lots of general education credits. You can earn those calculus, bio, history,etc. credits at your local community college, get A's, and then apply to your degree program. A's from last year look a lot better to schools than F's from the year 2000 with a promise that you've changed, you know? Besides, you're going to have to take those classes anyway...
posted by peppermint22 at 10:33 AM on February 7, 2006

Incidently, if you can find it, you may want to read this article:

The College Dropout Boom, The New York Times, May 24, 2005 Tuesday, Late Edition - Final, Section A; Column 1; National Desk; Pg. 1, 4485 words, By DAVID LEONHARDT, CHILHOWIE, Va.

which suggests that UVA may be more open to recruiting non-traditional students.
posted by peppermint22 at 10:49 AM on February 7, 2006

Before you do ANYTHING else, call and talk to either Admissions or the Academic Advising department (if there is one) at the schools that you'd like to attend. Don't take any more courses for credit before you do this! Many schools have eligibility requirements that depend on both the number of hours you have accumulated as well as your GPA. It's not uncommon for students to return to school in the same way that you would like to -- i.e., have been out a long time, made some mistakes, but want to come back older, wiser, and more motivated -- and so I think your chances are all right. You might even consider going back to one of your former schools and see if all might be forgiven. You would likely be considered a "non-traditional" student and therefore subject to different standards of Admission for most schools. It takes a lot of courage to do this sort of thing, and in my experience people generally want to help folks like you finish your degree. Now, that may be different at private schools. I'm an academic advisor at a state university. Happy to offer other advice over email if you'd like.

By the way, good for you for wanting to go back and finish.
posted by butternut at 10:52 AM on February 7, 2006

What's your situation with respect to the SAT or other standardized tests? It is still required for traditional undergraduate admissions, isn't it? Are they requiring that you submit one as well? Or, do you at least have the option of doing so? And if you have to/can submit one, then I assume they expect you to take it again.

For my money, the SAT has always been the surest way to make up for a lack of academic diligence in the eyes of the higher education gatekeepers. (And yes, I'm very much speaking from personal experience here). If I were in your shoes and I had a choice in the matter, I'd want to spend some quality time prepping for the SAT, take the test a couple of times, and then use my score to prove that I was capable of playing in their league. It would take a lot less time, energy, and money than taking classes at a community college. Which, for me, would be less exciting than working behind the counter at Wendy's.

And if they aren't interested in your standardized test scores... is there any other accomplishment, score, award, etc. that you can point to? As a general rule, admissions folks are big on this sort of thing.
posted by Clay201 at 11:02 AM on February 7, 2006

Response by poster: Thanks to everyone, and please chime in if you have more advice. I have emailed the admissions office at UVA as a start, and will follow up with phone calls. I must admit that the more I read about it, the less hopeful I feel about my chances. But a start is a start, even if it takes longer than I'd like.
posted by juniper at 11:04 AM on February 7, 2006

Response by poster: Clay201: I'm afraid my last year of high school was not so stellar, and my SAT's were only 1280. I was a smart but unmotivated student.
posted by juniper at 11:07 AM on February 7, 2006

Don't lose hope! Did you check out UVa's Community Scholar Program? I hate to harp, but it is designed for exactly your situation. Perhaps ask about it specifically to the UVa admissions people.
posted by ChasFile at 11:19 AM on February 7, 2006

juniper:

First, 1280 is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly above average. And you'd probably score significantly better if you took it again today; the more you prep, of course, the higher you'll score. And University of Virginia's average is 1319, so if you picked up just forty points, you'd be in very good shape.

Some people just don't get along well with standardized tests. I certainly respect that and for those folks, there are other strategies. (Several good ones have been mentioned here.) But looking strictly at the numbers, I think a competitive SAT score is well within your reach.
posted by Clay201 at 11:23 AM on February 7, 2006

juniper writes "Does it still make sense to go back? I've finished the basic gen-ed classes, so if I did go back to community college or take more online classes, what should I even take?"

Check with admissions whether stuff you did in your teens even counts, many places won't even consider granting credits toward a degree for courses completed more than 7 years ago.
posted by Mitheral at 11:23 AM on February 7, 2006

Congratulations on making the difficult decision to return to college. My situation was very similar to yours. I gave university a try my first year out of high school, then took a few attempts at community college over the next three years. After several years off, I decided to return to the university. Although I had accumulated almost 30 credits at community college, I made the choice to NOT have my academic records transfer over. The handful of A's and B's were just not worth it when combined with the many Withdrawals and F's I received after not finishing the classes I had started. This meant that when i returned to the university I had to take classes for credit I had technically already received elsewhere.

Why do this? University's might give you more consideration if they think you tried only once and quit instead of twice and quit ("he says he is serious about his education now, but why should we believe him based on his history?") and it could potentially improve your GPA. Some university's allow you to audit classes. If you can do this and get to know some of your professors (i find they prefer older students), letters from them could only help your chances at regular admission.

Beware of some college advisors. The first one I met with before I was allowed to re-enroll took one look at my transcript and asked me why I was even bothering. I stuck with it, completed a double major in 3 years and graduated magna cum laude this past december.

Good Luck!
posted by jessica at 11:32 AM on February 7, 2006

I'm currently a part of UVA's School of Continuing and Professional Studies, or what is more commonly referred to as the BIS program (Bachelor of Interdisciplinary Studies).

When I went to college out of high school, I became a Resident Advisor of a freshman dorm that resulted in my grades slipping and departure from the university (more here). I transferred to another college and was deeply unsatisfied with the courses, so I stopped attending. Feeling confident I'd want to secure a degree sometime, I kept attending courses on-and-off through various community colleges over the years. This resulted in a motley assortment of 8 years worth of college credits.

When it came time for me to get back into a degree program, however, I found myself in a quandary: every place I wanted to attend had transfer policies that butchered my previous history and essentially required me to retake most of my classes (e.g. one college refused my "US History from 1800-Present" because it didn't fall in line with their own "Contemporary US History"). I was unwilling to succumb to what I considered BS college politics, and resigned myself to a life of tons of college credit with no particular degree.

Enter UVA. Their BIS program provides a degree built around previous college experience. You have to have a certain number of credits, and they do have to fit a certain number of pre-reqs, but -- and I don't say this lightly -- it fit my situation better than any other college with which I had inquired. The classroom experience exceeds any other college venture I've had, due largely to the fact that people are there because they want to (not because of mom & dad). Additionally, they're older and have more experience in the workplace, leading to much livelier discussions.

But you want to study linguistics, right! Why should you consider the BIS program? Well, if nothing else, it's a foot in the door. You might have a better chance getting into the University via continuing studies rather than as a transfer student (note: if you do attempt a transfer, do it for the fall rather than a mid-year transfer, as UVA accepts much fewer students for January).

Anyway, according to the BIS program's 05-06 Undergraduate Record, there's something called an "Intra-University Transfer:"

B.I.S. students, as degree candidates at the University of Virginia, have the opportunity to apply for transfer to other schools of the University through the Intra-University Transfer process. Each school establishes its own criteria and procedures, and students in all schools are subject to them.

There's more details on the linked page, so scroll down and read. My email is in my profile if you'd like to contact me directly. I'd be glad to help put you in contact with someone who'd be willing to talk to you about your specific situation. The thing to remember about continuing education is that everybody is an adult, which allows for much more reasonable conversation and much less "Holy crap, you're a big-time college admin whom I should fear" nervousness. There's far fewer people involved as well, which leads to more productive advising sessions (i.e. no more counselors who deal with 2000 other students with last names between A-H).
posted by Hankins at 11:39 AM on February 7, 2006

First, I agree with advice to check with the admissions offices at schools that interest you about requirements. Very necessary first step, in terms of knowing what options you have. Many schools do have returning student programs that are worth looking into. It might be a good idea to be open to more general/individualized programs as well as actual linguistics degrees, at least to get your foot in the door. After you have a better/more recent track record, you can see about specializing.

Other possibilities to consider:
a. getting a TESOL degreee undergrad and then a graduate degree in linguistics.
b. depending on where you are, George Mason U. is worth looking into, as I think it has a linguistics program.
c. I'm a firm believer in community colleges. If you are getting discouraged with other possibilities, a couple recent classes in fields related to linguistics (psychology/cognition and anthropology might be good choices) will help demonstrate your seriousness. And, in the long run, the classes won't hurt your linguistics, either........
d. If the CC option doesn't work (timing, location), a class from a reputable/accredited university on-line might be another good avenue to explore.

When I was teaching at local universities, large numbers of my students were returnees; they tended to be the most serious about their work. Your major hurdle will be demonstrating that you fall into that group, rather than the 'just want to sit in class so I can get a piece of paper to get a raise (and signing a check does to prove that I can write)' crowd.
posted by killearnan at 12:08 PM on February 7, 2006

Mary Washington College The University of Mary Washington places significant emphasis on linguistics. Check out their offerings: http://www.umw.edu/cas/els/linguistics/default.php
posted by NortonDC at 12:44 PM on February 7, 2006

It would take a lot less time, energy, and money than taking classes at a community college. Which, for me, would be less exciting than working behind the counter at Wendy's.

At the risk of exercising my own personal hobby horses here, let me say to you and the OP and anyone else reading here: If you're presuming that a community college is by nature inferior or sub-standard you are doing yourself and hundreds of thousands of dedicated professionals a significant disservice.

You will never have a class at the CC that is being taught by someone only 2 years farther along in their education than you, completely without teaching experience, working from a department-issued syllabus and only there because it's a requirement for their grant. You will never have an instructor who is in that classroom only for the bare minimum number of hours, itching every second to get back to their lab.

There are certainly poor instructors and possibly entire community colleges that are sub-standard. However there is every bit as many reasons to believe that you would get superior instruction there at the freshman and sophomore level, not inferior.

If you are past the Associate's degree level in your classwork already then I concur, there's little reason to go to the CC for classes. Additionally you would be well served asking the admission office (though sometimes it's exceedingly hard to get someone knowledgeable to speak to) what would make you a better candidate. But let's not engage in the fallacy of thinking there's something wrong with community colleges.
posted by phearlez at 12:54 PM on February 7, 2006

I dropped out of college just prior to failing out. Went back to the same college 5 years later. They took me back because I was able to explain what had changed, and what I'd done over the past 5 years to make it different this time.

It helped that I'd kept up contact with some of my professors, and discussed returning with them. That put my name in the faculty gossip pool. It also helped that this particular college had a program for "students above the traditional college age". My application went through that program, and I interviewed with people used to judging non-traditional apps.

Others have given great practical advice. All I can add is that if I was accepted back to a school I'd nearly failed out of and where I'd caused a lot of problems my first time around, you can get into a good school. Be honest, with yourself and with Admissions, and you'll probably get a lot farther than you ever dreamed.
posted by QIbHom at 12:58 PM on February 7, 2006

What have you been doing since last attending school? Any decent admissions person is going to take that into consideration.
posted by Good Brain at 1:17 PM on February 7, 2006

Response by poster: Good Brain: I have taken a couple of online courses and done ok in them, and have been working as an administrative assistant for my county's park authority. This job has involved a lot of document creation, editing, proofreading, etc, so I suppose I could put that in the application essay. I have a mildly successful blog and snippets of it were published in a British literary zine a year or two ago. Heh. Now I'm clinging at straws.

The response I received from the UVA admissions office was "Just go ahead and apply, and if there's anything important you need to communicate, include it in your personal essay." Daunting! But I think I will just go ahead and apply there and maybe to University of Mary Washington (thanks NortonDC) and, when rejected, pursue the Linguistic department heads and admission offices for advice for next time.
posted by juniper at 3:03 PM on February 7, 2006

FWIW, some schools won't let you transfer courses if you apply under "mature student" status. However, if your grades were that bad, you might be happier to have a fresh new transcript.
posted by acoutu at 3:11 PM on February 7, 2006

The UVA BIS thing sound *great,* you should really, really go talk to someone in that office.

Do you have your A.A. degree? In Florida, anyway, once you have your A.A. degree completed, the first two years transfer in as a package, but without the degree, they only transfer in on a case-by-case basis. If you do not have your A.A., it might be worth getting your transcripts analyzed by a CC to see how short you'd be. Even though you have 70 credits, you may just have to take one speech class (or something) to be awarded the degree.

At VCU in Richmond, all ft staff members get to take two free classes a semester. If it looks like the fulltime student thing is not going to work out soon, you could try to get a job at VCU (I don't know if other schools in VA have this option) and take classes to boost your GPA.

If you want a job with VCU, I know a place that's always hiring. The pay is crap, but it is up your alley (linguistics). e-mail me (in profile)
posted by lalalana at 4:41 PM on February 7, 2006

I think the UVa BIS program sounds like just what you need. Those programs (there was something similar at my undergraduate school) seem like they can accomodate whatever field of study you're interested in.

I think the most important thing is not to be disheartened because you failed out in the past and are "nontraditional." I spent many years in academia, at pretty good schools, and I met people doing very well who had recovered from all sorts of academic disasters.
posted by jayder at 7:26 PM on February 7, 2006

In Florida, anyway, once you have your A.A. degree completed, the first two years transfer in as a package, but without the degree, they only transfer in on a case-by-case basis.

For any Floridians reading, the far more important fact here is that Florida has a mandated 2+2 plan where if you are granted an AA from a Florida state CC you must be accepted by any Florida state university you apply to - they have no choice but to allow you in. They do not have to let you into the particular degree program you want, but they cannot refuse you entry. It's a law dating back into the 70s and a damned good one IMHO.
posted by phearlez at 10:58 AM on February 8, 2006