Who buys special event clothing for kids after divorce?
May 6, 2018 8:23 AM Subscribe
Wedding outfits are expensive, and I'm not even invited!
I'm divorced, with 60-40 shared custody of kids (60% of time with me). The dad pays child support since he makes 2x as much money as I do. My ex is a tightwad who nearly killed himself (not a joke! we went to the psych ward!) when found out how much money he was "losing" to me, even though I waived alimony and more than half the assets I was entitled to.
I do almost all the kid-related administrative labor, such as finding and registering for summer camps, activities, etc. I buy all the kids' school supplies, clothes, sports gear, etc., even what they keep at their dad's place, just because that's the way it's always worked. It's not in our agreement or anything, I just don't mind. This cost is affordable to me, so I haven't minded.
Now the kids are in a wedding on their dad's side of the family (I'm not invited). Am I really supposed to buy the kids their expensive wedding clothes? Their dad is asking me to. But I don't think it works that way.
How do you all do it? How does this stuff usually work?
I'm divorced, with 60-40 shared custody of kids (60% of time with me). The dad pays child support since he makes 2x as much money as I do. My ex is a tightwad who nearly killed himself (not a joke! we went to the psych ward!) when found out how much money he was "losing" to me, even though I waived alimony and more than half the assets I was entitled to.
I do almost all the kid-related administrative labor, such as finding and registering for summer camps, activities, etc. I buy all the kids' school supplies, clothes, sports gear, etc., even what they keep at their dad's place, just because that's the way it's always worked. It's not in our agreement or anything, I just don't mind. This cost is affordable to me, so I haven't minded.
Now the kids are in a wedding on their dad's side of the family (I'm not invited). Am I really supposed to buy the kids their expensive wedding clothes? Their dad is asking me to. But I don't think it works that way.
How do you all do it? How does this stuff usually work?
Best answer: The dad either needs to own up to his responsibility as a freaking dad and do his own dirty work or pay you a more than reasonable wage for being his personal shopper here.
This is a clear line of "his problem" and has nothing to do with you other than your shitty ex wants to pawn off work and emotional labor on you because he thinks he can get away with it
posted by Jacen at 8:34 AM on May 6, 2018 [56 favorites]
This is a clear line of "his problem" and has nothing to do with you other than your shitty ex wants to pawn off work and emotional labor on you because he thinks he can get away with it
posted by Jacen at 8:34 AM on May 6, 2018 [56 favorites]
Unless your divorce decree says otherwise, I would say you can give your ex the option that the kids will wear nice clothes you presumably bought, which will be freshly laundered presumably by you, or he can manage the task of buying clothing for a wedding that you aren't attending.
posted by crunchy potato at 8:38 AM on May 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by crunchy potato at 8:38 AM on May 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
Best answer: Your agreement probably doesn’t specify who is responsible for event-specific clothing, just because that’s not a level of specificity that child custody and support agreements usually get to.
The good news is that this means you can say no, and your ex won’t be able to force you to do otherwise! However, it does sound like you’ve got a pattern of agreeing to things if/when he hassles you enough or makes a big enough fuss. Which probably means he’s going to throw a fit when you say no.
You are totally within your rights to say “it’s your responsibility to figure out the kid’s clothes for this wedding. It’s not my job and it doesn’t involve me”. If/when he asks you to do more (including contribute $), say no. If you’d like to offer an alternative, crunchy potato’s suggestion is great.
The thing to keep in mind here is that if you want your ex to have to deal with this, you’re going to have to stick to your no. Just keep saying “I can send the kids with (nice outfits they already have) or you can make other arrangements” and don’t argue about your reasons why. If you want to break this pattern where your ex flips out until you step in and deal with things, you’re going to have to let him flip out, which sounds like it might be tough for you.
Just remind yourself that it’s going to be fine. They’ll have clothes for the wedding, it’s not your job to make your ex’s life easy, and keep saying no.
posted by Kpele at 8:45 AM on May 6, 2018 [35 favorites]
The good news is that this means you can say no, and your ex won’t be able to force you to do otherwise! However, it does sound like you’ve got a pattern of agreeing to things if/when he hassles you enough or makes a big enough fuss. Which probably means he’s going to throw a fit when you say no.
You are totally within your rights to say “it’s your responsibility to figure out the kid’s clothes for this wedding. It’s not my job and it doesn’t involve me”. If/when he asks you to do more (including contribute $), say no. If you’d like to offer an alternative, crunchy potato’s suggestion is great.
The thing to keep in mind here is that if you want your ex to have to deal with this, you’re going to have to stick to your no. Just keep saying “I can send the kids with (nice outfits they already have) or you can make other arrangements” and don’t argue about your reasons why. If you want to break this pattern where your ex flips out until you step in and deal with things, you’re going to have to let him flip out, which sounds like it might be tough for you.
Just remind yourself that it’s going to be fine. They’ll have clothes for the wedding, it’s not your job to make your ex’s life easy, and keep saying no.
posted by Kpele at 8:45 AM on May 6, 2018 [35 favorites]
Um. You waived alimony.
He can suck it up and buy the goddamned clothes.
posted by Tamanna at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2018 [32 favorites]
He can suck it up and buy the goddamned clothes.
posted by Tamanna at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2018 [32 favorites]
Best answer: It's an event he is taking the kids to that you have nothing to do with. It's clearly his responsibility to find and purchase the clothes. There might be something to debate if it were something solely for the kids (like a prom) or something you both were attending (mutual friend's wedding) but here, no.
posted by metasarah at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
The general rule in my agreement is that kid clothes except pajamas are shared purchases.
That being said, if the children were merely attending the wedding I'd suggest splitting the cost and being as economical as possible - buying a shirt and pants or dress that is too big. Getting dressy shoes that can also be worn to school.
But the children being asked to be in the wedding as flower girls or ring bearers or whatever... I presume that these are clothes that they will never wear again.
If that is the case, I think that it might be wedding etiquette for the bride and groom who presumedly asked that these children be in the wedding to pay for some of the costs of the clothes. IMHO you should bear no cost...
Unless things like socks or tights are worn again and then I'd kick in your normal cost sharing agreement.
So with that, I'd say to ex:
"Mark and Elisa want the kids to be in their wedding and that is cool, but asking them to wear clothes only once is really impractical and a huge financial imposition. Can you talk to your brother and sister-in-law to see if they are willing to have Braden wear a white shirt and navy khakis and black shoes and for Madelyn to wear a slightly fancy dress that she can wear again with white dress shoes? That way the kids can wear that stuff again at Easter and the school concert. Otherwise, if the couple wants the kids to wear expensive fancy clothes, I think you should ask them to cover the expense."
posted by k8t at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2018
That being said, if the children were merely attending the wedding I'd suggest splitting the cost and being as economical as possible - buying a shirt and pants or dress that is too big. Getting dressy shoes that can also be worn to school.
But the children being asked to be in the wedding as flower girls or ring bearers or whatever... I presume that these are clothes that they will never wear again.
If that is the case, I think that it might be wedding etiquette for the bride and groom who presumedly asked that these children be in the wedding to pay for some of the costs of the clothes. IMHO you should bear no cost...
Unless things like socks or tights are worn again and then I'd kick in your normal cost sharing agreement.
So with that, I'd say to ex:
"Mark and Elisa want the kids to be in their wedding and that is cool, but asking them to wear clothes only once is really impractical and a huge financial imposition. Can you talk to your brother and sister-in-law to see if they are willing to have Braden wear a white shirt and navy khakis and black shoes and for Madelyn to wear a slightly fancy dress that she can wear again with white dress shoes? That way the kids can wear that stuff again at Easter and the school concert. Otherwise, if the couple wants the kids to wear expensive fancy clothes, I think you should ask them to cover the expense."
posted by k8t at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2018
Best answer: first of all, you should stop paying for stuff outside your agreement, because even if it's small amounts now that you can afford, the longer you let this go on the tougher it's going to be when the costs become large and you need to make a change.
second, I can't even begin to fathom why dressing them up for his wedding should be in your zone of responsibility at all. But if you want to take on this responsibility (and he might be shitty to them if you don't) then tell him you need $300 cash and you'll take care of it. you can give him change if you have any. or, of course, he can deal with it himself.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:02 AM on May 6, 2018 [20 favorites]
second, I can't even begin to fathom why dressing them up for his wedding should be in your zone of responsibility at all. But if you want to take on this responsibility (and he might be shitty to them if you don't) then tell him you need $300 cash and you'll take care of it. you can give him change if you have any. or, of course, he can deal with it himself.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:02 AM on May 6, 2018 [20 favorites]
Best answer: Also, IMHO, it might be worth keeping track of costs and splitting it with him overall so he knows how much stuff is.
posted by k8t at 9:02 AM on May 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by k8t at 9:02 AM on May 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My ex- was a deadbeat jackass. I understand that it's often easier to just pay for stuff and not argue about it. I would do some preliminary shopping, then tell him, preferably by email, that if he'd like you to shop for nice clothes for the kids to wear to the wedding, it will cost @ x. If he has a hissy fit, ignore him. He's a tinpot bully and has hissy fits because it works. If it comes to it, provide the kids with whatever clean nice clothes they already have, and let him deal. As they come in to teen years the expenses rise, and he should be helping.
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on May 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on May 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
OP, can you please clarify if this is just dressy clothes or actual member of the wedding party clothes?
posted by k8t at 9:06 AM on May 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by k8t at 9:06 AM on May 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
All the big things from medical to generic "Cost splitting" should have been in your divorce agreement. It is his family, he should pay the cost associated. Stick to your guns or it will get worse. I think my ex is a bit better that yours sounds but OMG he whines about money and he makes 2x what I make and new wife brings in similar so 4x income in his household compared to mine and the kiddo lives with me full time. My biggest fight was getting him to split medical on the 20 yr old still at home in college, he KNEW she had medical cause she has an immune disorder..but it is what it is and I would manage even if he was not in the picture.
posted by ReiFlinx at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ReiFlinx at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'd let ex know that these clothes can be rented, in case the objection is that he'd pay for something that you get to "keep".
posted by xo at 9:38 AM on May 6, 2018
posted by xo at 9:38 AM on May 6, 2018
Response by poster: To answer some of the questions raised:
1. There is an agreement in place that specifies I will pay for (though not necessarily shop for! but I do anyway.) sports gear up to a certain amount, but is silent on general clothing and school supplies (which I buy all of) and also special event supplies/clothing (hence this question). There is nothing outside of the agreement.
2. I'm being asked to purchase two desi outfits for each of two kids for a desi wedding (a multi-day thing). One of the kids is in the wedding officially but that doesn't impact the clothing purchase; both will need similar styles of similar expense. These clothes might be worn maybe once or twice again (maybe Diwali?) before the kids outgrow them.
Under normal circumstances, I make sure that the kids have at least one set of desi clothes that fit them at any given time. These are always purchased on trips to India, or I might ask visiting relatives to bring a set over. That makes these clothes WAY more affordable. But now there are neither visitors nor any India trips planned. The outfits will have to be bought locally.
posted by MiraK at 10:23 AM on May 6, 2018
1. There is an agreement in place that specifies I will pay for (though not necessarily shop for! but I do anyway.) sports gear up to a certain amount, but is silent on general clothing and school supplies (which I buy all of) and also special event supplies/clothing (hence this question). There is nothing outside of the agreement.
2. I'm being asked to purchase two desi outfits for each of two kids for a desi wedding (a multi-day thing). One of the kids is in the wedding officially but that doesn't impact the clothing purchase; both will need similar styles of similar expense. These clothes might be worn maybe once or twice again (maybe Diwali?) before the kids outgrow them.
Under normal circumstances, I make sure that the kids have at least one set of desi clothes that fit them at any given time. These are always purchased on trips to India, or I might ask visiting relatives to bring a set over. That makes these clothes WAY more affordable. But now there are neither visitors nor any India trips planned. The outfits will have to be bought locally.
posted by MiraK at 10:23 AM on May 6, 2018
Response by poster: And, goddammnit, I suddenly realize I WANT my kids to have lovely clothes for their first wedding ever, and if I leave it to their dad he's gonna skimp or make them go without. Ugh.
This is bullshit. :(
posted by MiraK at 10:39 AM on May 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
This is bullshit. :(
posted by MiraK at 10:39 AM on May 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
Tell him when he reinstates alimony, you’ll be able to afford it but if that’s not going to happen, the kids are xx size, have fun at the wedding. Feel free to vary this statement for any future purchase he chooses to put on you. Oh and everyone else is right in saying what you capitulate to now will then be expected to be the norm, so hold your ground because it will only get worse if you don’t.
posted by Jubey at 10:39 AM on May 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:39 AM on May 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Do you still have a relationship with his parents? Can you call and get them to buy the clothes? This is how I got my kid tennis whites for a club I’m not a member of and will never attend - his parents bought them after I pushed back three times.
I hope his parents have good taste ... my daughter then “lost” the tennis whites and I finally replaced them myself with clothes that fit properly and are styled for the current decade.
posted by crazycanuck at 11:07 AM on May 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I hope his parents have good taste ... my daughter then “lost” the tennis whites and I finally replaced them myself with clothes that fit properly and are styled for the current decade.
posted by crazycanuck at 11:07 AM on May 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Under the circumstances that you've described I would tell dad "I am willing to shop for the clothes but I will not pay for any portion of them. I will need a budget of $x. Let me know by x date how you want to proceed, otherwise I will assume that you have made other arrangements."
This is predicated on the knowledge that you will absolutely be judged on how your kids look, whether you are there or not. I (bases on experiences in my own life) wouldn't leave it up to a tightwad to dress my kids for a public event.
posted by vignettist at 11:12 AM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is predicated on the knowledge that you will absolutely be judged on how your kids look, whether you are there or not. I (bases on experiences in my own life) wouldn't leave it up to a tightwad to dress my kids for a public event.
posted by vignettist at 11:12 AM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
There is some cognitive bias in what you posted, which is inevitable when having to maintain a relationship with an ex you dislike. I sympathize.
The dad pays child support, so he has been paying for the school supplies, not you. You are buying them with his money. If the child support amount is not enough to cover that essential, then you have grounds to get the amount raised.
Similarly, if the child support is insufficient to cover occasional extra costs like this wedding, you can present him with the choice of raising child support permanently (which he won’t like), or him just paying out of pocket for exceptional costs when they occur, like now. He’ll pay for the clothes.
posted by w0mbat at 11:57 AM on May 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
The dad pays child support, so he has been paying for the school supplies, not you. You are buying them with his money. If the child support amount is not enough to cover that essential, then you have grounds to get the amount raised.
Similarly, if the child support is insufficient to cover occasional extra costs like this wedding, you can present him with the choice of raising child support permanently (which he won’t like), or him just paying out of pocket for exceptional costs when they occur, like now. He’ll pay for the clothes.
posted by w0mbat at 11:57 AM on May 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
In your ex's mind, is this about paying for the clothing or shopping for the clothing? Because (and I could easily be totally wrong about this because my experience with this kind of clothing is limited to one wedding as an adult) the clothing you're describing is often custom made and requires multiple trips to get set up and might not be something your ex knows how to do well.
Can you ask your ex if he will pay if you get the outfits for your kids? Or is this one of those things where your ex neither knows how to buy outfits and has a total blockage about paying for things?
Can you suggest that someone on your ex's side of the family do the clothing purchases if your ex isn't capable of doing it himself?
posted by sciencegeek at 1:19 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can you ask your ex if he will pay if you get the outfits for your kids? Or is this one of those things where your ex neither knows how to buy outfits and has a total blockage about paying for things?
Can you suggest that someone on your ex's side of the family do the clothing purchases if your ex isn't capable of doing it himself?
posted by sciencegeek at 1:19 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
My agreement says nothing and I send my kid in stuff I got at goodwill. Because at first he would just endlessly take clothes and return too small/gross. It's dad's responsibility to parent. Part of bonding with your child is clothing them. My ex gets it together and gets nice things for child to wear everywhere. He is broke and irresponsible. It sounds like your ex can do this. Let him do it.
posted by Kalmya at 1:46 PM on May 6, 2018
posted by Kalmya at 1:46 PM on May 6, 2018
Is it possible to ask around to borrow something for the event?
posted by k8t at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2018
posted by k8t at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2018
Response by poster: w0mbat, that's not the way child support works with us. We both are obligated to give a certain portion of our incomes towards the kids. That money then gets divided between us based on how much the kids stay with each parent. It so happens that he makes so much more money than I do that he is the one paying "out of pocket" to me. I could technically and fairly argue that I should only pay for clothes etc worn while the kids are with me. So when I buy them clothes etc for use at their dad's place, it is in fact ME that's paying for those clothes. And this doesn't take into account the fact that I shop for all the clothes as well. My time is worth something too.
I'm no universe can it be argued that he is paying for the clothes the kids wear when they are at his place. This isn't cognitive bias.
posted by MiraK at 3:32 PM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
I'm no universe can it be argued that he is paying for the clothes the kids wear when they are at his place. This isn't cognitive bias.
posted by MiraK at 3:32 PM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
Ugh this absolutely sucks and I'm so sorry you have to deal with it. Feeling like your kids are going to be judged or punished by feeling like they don't fit in at a big family event because your ex is a jerk is terrible.
I would try to pick out clothes that work that aren't too expensive, I'd ask him to pitch in, he probably won't and you'll have to swallow it. Parenting with a jerk is awful. It IS bullshit and I'm sorry. Figuring out how to manage the fact that this dude is going to skimp on your kids and that you'll have to figure out when to let it go and when to pick up the slack is going to be a long project, and it's not going to go away.
Personally, I'd just let this one wash over me and work on accepting it. You may want to fight him on other stuff later, or you may want to push back now, but it sort of sounds to me like this isn't one to actually push back on. Only you know though.
Again, I'm sorry.
posted by sockermom at 3:58 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would try to pick out clothes that work that aren't too expensive, I'd ask him to pitch in, he probably won't and you'll have to swallow it. Parenting with a jerk is awful. It IS bullshit and I'm sorry. Figuring out how to manage the fact that this dude is going to skimp on your kids and that you'll have to figure out when to let it go and when to pick up the slack is going to be a long project, and it's not going to go away.
Personally, I'd just let this one wash over me and work on accepting it. You may want to fight him on other stuff later, or you may want to push back now, but it sort of sounds to me like this isn't one to actually push back on. Only you know though.
Again, I'm sorry.
posted by sockermom at 3:58 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you're likely to get stuck with this anyway, can you come up with at least one or two other excuses to get dressed up? Even if it's just dressed up for something that isn't strictly a cultural event, just something where people might describe it as "Sunday Best" kind of territory? So, they get this stuff for the wedding, maybe, but you also use those outfits for, say, getting nice family pictures taken, at the very least, which might allow a certain amount of mental reframing that your effort and expense are not in vain.
I don't think you should HAVE to cover this, I just mean that if you're probably going to wind up doing it anyway, you might feel generally better about the state of affairs if you actually get to enjoy your children being dressed up and they get to partially associate that with positive experiences they have with you.
posted by Sequence at 4:17 PM on May 6, 2018
I don't think you should HAVE to cover this, I just mean that if you're probably going to wind up doing it anyway, you might feel generally better about the state of affairs if you actually get to enjoy your children being dressed up and they get to partially associate that with positive experiences they have with you.
posted by Sequence at 4:17 PM on May 6, 2018
Best answer: The dad pays child support, so he has been paying for the school supplies, not you. You are buying them with his money.
As someone currently receiving child support, the above is wrong, at least in my state and probably most places. Child support is supposed to cover the non-custodial parent’s fair (calculated however) portion of expenses for the children, not all of them. I still spend the money I earn on my children, and I’m sure the OP does too.
posted by LizardBreath at 5:01 PM on May 6, 2018 [14 favorites]
As someone currently receiving child support, the above is wrong, at least in my state and probably most places. Child support is supposed to cover the non-custodial parent’s fair (calculated however) portion of expenses for the children, not all of them. I still spend the money I earn on my children, and I’m sure the OP does too.
posted by LizardBreath at 5:01 PM on May 6, 2018 [14 favorites]
And I would agree that your only obligation is to send them in whatever nice dress-up clothes they have now. If you think their father will be enough of a jerk about it to hurt the kids’ feelings somehow, you could buy the wedding the clothes, but if you do, I’d think of it as protecting them from his bad behavior, not anything you owe him as part of the divorce. His family wedding, his problem.
posted by LizardBreath at 5:05 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by LizardBreath at 5:05 PM on May 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: stop babying your ex. He's a grown man.
If it's that important to you, then contact others in his family to pressure him to do so. Some auntie or cousin will probably gladly help do the leg work to help your ex be a father and buy the outfits.
Repeat after me: You are not the only parent.
posted by Neekee at 6:07 PM on May 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
If it's that important to you, then contact others in his family to pressure him to do so. Some auntie or cousin will probably gladly help do the leg work to help your ex be a father and buy the outfits.
Repeat after me: You are not the only parent.
posted by Neekee at 6:07 PM on May 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
Best answer: THE FATHER is never going to step up and think about his kids' feelings in situations as these if you are always preventing anything from potentially happening. Why would he ever need to?
posted by Neekee at 6:12 PM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Neekee at 6:12 PM on May 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
Contact his most stylish female relative who will be involved in the wedding and ask her to help you. He can pay, she can choose. She can also enlist the rest of his family to shame him a little on being this monumentally useless at life!
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 3:22 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 3:22 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
We can't really answer unless you start with what your agreement does say about these purchases. What do you mean by "or anything"? Are you referring to oral agreements outside the divorce decree?
In a vacuum I'd say that the dad ought to pay for clothing for a wedding in his family, but this is subject to what your divorce decree does say, which you're not telling.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:31 AM on May 6, 2018 [3 favorites]