Ethical responsibility to confront or report sexual harassment
April 24, 2018 11:01 PM Subscribe
I am a woman. A man I work with who is not my direct supervisor but who is above me in the org and who I work closely with on a daily basis has been making comments that make me uncomfortable. He has not yet done anything reportable (I think). I feel like it is my ethical responsibility to confront or maybe report him but am scared to do so for all the usual reasons. What responsibility do I have to myself and to future women who may work with him? Snowflakes within.
I have worked at this org with this man for 5 years now and it is my first job out of school. He has worked here for 20 years and is highly respected. For the past 5 years he has protected me from the politics and infighting in the office and larger org and has definitely solicited platonic attention from me, but I never felt he was attracted to me. I have previously suspected him of either respecting women or being attracted to them. When this article, Why men want to marry Melanias and raise Ivankas came out it reminded me of how he seems to relate to his own wife and daughter and also I thought in that paradigm he sees me as a daughter (in the way the article frames Trump’s view of Ivanka.) I have been kicking myself recently because of course we all know how Trump really is toward Ivanka.
Over the past month, with no reason or trigger I can identify, he has been what feels like hitting on me or just being inappropriate.
Examples:
1) Coworker tells story about meeting lots of women in grad school. Man says "Yeah, grad school is all about hooking up, Anonymous knows about that, right?"
2) A week later, in a one on one meeting, I accidentally said "I'm so fucking annoyed" with a situation then apologized for cursing. He said, “You sound like me. It happens when you spend a lot of time with a person. It's like we are dating.”
3) I was talking to him about a work matter one on one and he proceeded to spend an hour asking me personal questions...nothing seriously intrusive, just like where had I grown up and how had I gotten interested in Field but he’s never done this before...he tends to monologue at people rather than show interest in them.
4) Last week he said, again in a scheduled required one on one meeting, "Did you ever model? You have the build for it, tall and thin.”
5) Today he surprised me with a snack from the food trucks outside because the food reminded him of my ethnic background.
So far my response has been to awkwardly laugh. Which is not how I always hoped I would react if I was in this kind of situation and makes me feel like I’m 18 again when I didn’t know how to be assertive with men and felt responsible for their feelings.
I admire women who stand up to this stuff. I want to be them. And I’m also terrified of the blowback. This man has power and a very sensitive ego (don’t they all though?)
I am already looking for a new job for other reasons.
I am debating between breaking out my politely deflecting men skills that I wish I never had to have up and until something physical happens or I find a new job (casually mentioning a non existent boyfriend, not responding to inappropriate remarks but otherwise staying polite, cutting one on one meetings short to get to other work duties) and directly telling him he’s making me uncomfortable which would feel like the ethical choice and which I’m fairly sure will lead to him causing difficulty for me in the workplace (he has some say in my performance reviews, projects assigned, etc.)
I guess I’m also looking for some general validation and you’re not alone in this comments as well as examples about how others have managed these types of situations.
Throw away email:
Black squirrel 333
@ Gmail
I have worked at this org with this man for 5 years now and it is my first job out of school. He has worked here for 20 years and is highly respected. For the past 5 years he has protected me from the politics and infighting in the office and larger org and has definitely solicited platonic attention from me, but I never felt he was attracted to me. I have previously suspected him of either respecting women or being attracted to them. When this article, Why men want to marry Melanias and raise Ivankas came out it reminded me of how he seems to relate to his own wife and daughter and also I thought in that paradigm he sees me as a daughter (in the way the article frames Trump’s view of Ivanka.) I have been kicking myself recently because of course we all know how Trump really is toward Ivanka.
Over the past month, with no reason or trigger I can identify, he has been what feels like hitting on me or just being inappropriate.
Examples:
1) Coworker tells story about meeting lots of women in grad school. Man says "Yeah, grad school is all about hooking up, Anonymous knows about that, right?"
2) A week later, in a one on one meeting, I accidentally said "I'm so fucking annoyed" with a situation then apologized for cursing. He said, “You sound like me. It happens when you spend a lot of time with a person. It's like we are dating.”
3) I was talking to him about a work matter one on one and he proceeded to spend an hour asking me personal questions...nothing seriously intrusive, just like where had I grown up and how had I gotten interested in Field but he’s never done this before...he tends to monologue at people rather than show interest in them.
4) Last week he said, again in a scheduled required one on one meeting, "Did you ever model? You have the build for it, tall and thin.”
5) Today he surprised me with a snack from the food trucks outside because the food reminded him of my ethnic background.
So far my response has been to awkwardly laugh. Which is not how I always hoped I would react if I was in this kind of situation and makes me feel like I’m 18 again when I didn’t know how to be assertive with men and felt responsible for their feelings.
I admire women who stand up to this stuff. I want to be them. And I’m also terrified of the blowback. This man has power and a very sensitive ego (don’t they all though?)
I am already looking for a new job for other reasons.
I am debating between breaking out my politely deflecting men skills that I wish I never had to have up and until something physical happens or I find a new job (casually mentioning a non existent boyfriend, not responding to inappropriate remarks but otherwise staying polite, cutting one on one meetings short to get to other work duties) and directly telling him he’s making me uncomfortable which would feel like the ethical choice and which I’m fairly sure will lead to him causing difficulty for me in the workplace (he has some say in my performance reviews, projects assigned, etc.)
I guess I’m also looking for some general validation and you’re not alone in this comments as well as examples about how others have managed these types of situations.
Throw away email:
Black squirrel 333
@ Gmail
You could respond to his comments with a breezy "Wow, how flattering. Can I tell everybody you said that?" If he keeps going, say in a cheerful way "Can I get that in writing?"
Obviously you would not actually tell anybody. The point is just to jolt him.
Examples:
Him: "I got you this snack.."
You: "Wow, so thoughtful! Can I tell everybody you did this nice thing? They'll all want one too."
Him: "Did you ever model? You have the build for it."
Me: "That's so nice! Can I get that in writing?"
Him: "It is like we are dating."
You: "Ha ha, really? What a hoot! Can I tell everybody you said that?"
He will freak out and stop doing it, but you have enough plausible deniability as a cover.
posted by cheesecake at 1:46 AM on April 25, 2018 [18 favorites]
Obviously you would not actually tell anybody. The point is just to jolt him.
Examples:
Him: "I got you this snack.."
You: "Wow, so thoughtful! Can I tell everybody you did this nice thing? They'll all want one too."
Him: "Did you ever model? You have the build for it."
Me: "That's so nice! Can I get that in writing?"
Him: "It is like we are dating."
You: "Ha ha, really? What a hoot! Can I tell everybody you said that?"
He will freak out and stop doing it, but you have enough plausible deniability as a cover.
posted by cheesecake at 1:46 AM on April 25, 2018 [18 favorites]
Confronting him and offering feedback is a gesture of respect for his ability and desire to be a better person. Has he earned that? From what you've written, I'm not hopeful that he will react in a way that you want.
[I had a trusted mentor make a similar daughter -> wife switch on me (read: supportive -> abusive). I tried to address it in a way that would preserve the working relationship, but it did not go well.]
I think you have an obligation to help other people if you witness them being mistreated, particularly if you are coming from a position of power. However, if it's directed at you, there is no moral imperative for you to try to fix him -- be as selfish as you care to be, whether that means preserving your career or deciding that your self worth requires explicitly standing up to him. It sounds like your only power in this situation is in your ability to say "you don't get to treat me like that". However, depending on HIS reaction, that may have to be immediately followed up with "and I'm leaving". And that sucks.
Do you have allies/friends/witnesses that you could ask for help calling him out in the moment? What about other colleagues having similar trouble with him? Is this in a setting where sexual harassment is taken seriously, or are you likely to be the first test case here?
Even if it's up to just you, I think reacting in the moment can often be less high stakes than walking into his office and making it a *thing*. Be prepared with a "hey, that's getting too personal for work", or practice your cold offended stare and watch him squirm.
posted by Metasyntactic at 1:50 AM on April 25, 2018 [21 favorites]
[I had a trusted mentor make a similar daughter -> wife switch on me (read: supportive -> abusive). I tried to address it in a way that would preserve the working relationship, but it did not go well.]
I think you have an obligation to help other people if you witness them being mistreated, particularly if you are coming from a position of power. However, if it's directed at you, there is no moral imperative for you to try to fix him -- be as selfish as you care to be, whether that means preserving your career or deciding that your self worth requires explicitly standing up to him. It sounds like your only power in this situation is in your ability to say "you don't get to treat me like that". However, depending on HIS reaction, that may have to be immediately followed up with "and I'm leaving". And that sucks.
Do you have allies/friends/witnesses that you could ask for help calling him out in the moment? What about other colleagues having similar trouble with him? Is this in a setting where sexual harassment is taken seriously, or are you likely to be the first test case here?
Even if it's up to just you, I think reacting in the moment can often be less high stakes than walking into his office and making it a *thing*. Be prepared with a "hey, that's getting too personal for work", or practice your cold offended stare and watch him squirm.
posted by Metasyntactic at 1:50 AM on April 25, 2018 [21 favorites]
In case it wasn't clear from my first answer:
My opinion on these types of situations is that unless:
(1) he is well-meaning but clueless (as opposed to enjoying playing with how much his power lets him get away with)
or
(2) you are striking with overwhelming force (e.g. an institution that will take your complaint seriously, multiple people saying the same thing, an offense serious enough to result in legal consequences, ...)
then as the target, you're not in a good position to effect change, which means your moral obligations are to yourself at this point.
Advance in your career, keep an eye out for assholes like this down the line, and when you have power, use it to help others.
posted by Metasyntactic at 2:17 AM on April 25, 2018 [26 favorites]
My opinion on these types of situations is that unless:
(1) he is well-meaning but clueless (as opposed to enjoying playing with how much his power lets him get away with)
or
(2) you are striking with overwhelming force (e.g. an institution that will take your complaint seriously, multiple people saying the same thing, an offense serious enough to result in legal consequences, ...)
then as the target, you're not in a good position to effect change, which means your moral obligations are to yourself at this point.
Advance in your career, keep an eye out for assholes like this down the line, and when you have power, use it to help others.
posted by Metasyntactic at 2:17 AM on April 25, 2018 [26 favorites]
Grrr. I am furious for you. But I also want to give you a high five for recognising this creepy behaviour for what it is and trying to nip it in the bud as soon as you clocked that something was different about this guy's behaviour.
Here are my suggestions. Sorry they're not very badass - I'm kind of coming at this from a "preserving career and networks" angle. (On preview, my perspective is very much like Metasyntactic's above.)
Firstly I would try to do what I can to make sure all one to one catch-ups with him take place not in his office but with other people around. If you do have to go to his office, don't close the door. I suspect he feels safe and unlikely to be disturbed which is why he is starting to say these gross things to you.
My feeling is he is testing you for how you will respond to these overtures before he escalates. The next time he says something inappropriate to you, I would suggest just pause, keep your expression still, and give a monosyllabic answer ("Yes/no/not sure"), but if for example he is asking you about hooking up at college (wtf?) just say something like, "Mmmm, I don't really think that's appropriate". I think you can still respond guardedly to other personal questions but don't respond in a friendly/eager way which makes him think that he can escalate the intimacy of the conversation. Become a boring target.
Jerks like this feed off responses, even negative responses. Try to give him the bare minimum to react to.
I also think you need to be telling your manager about this ASAP.
I wish I could give you more assertive suggestions but as a junior member of staff, in your first job out of college, with no immediate job to go to, I am not sure you have any power in this situation and I wouldn't want to recommend a course of action to you that had the possibility of making your situation worse.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:30 AM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Here are my suggestions. Sorry they're not very badass - I'm kind of coming at this from a "preserving career and networks" angle. (On preview, my perspective is very much like Metasyntactic's above.)
Firstly I would try to do what I can to make sure all one to one catch-ups with him take place not in his office but with other people around. If you do have to go to his office, don't close the door. I suspect he feels safe and unlikely to be disturbed which is why he is starting to say these gross things to you.
My feeling is he is testing you for how you will respond to these overtures before he escalates. The next time he says something inappropriate to you, I would suggest just pause, keep your expression still, and give a monosyllabic answer ("Yes/no/not sure"), but if for example he is asking you about hooking up at college (wtf?) just say something like, "Mmmm, I don't really think that's appropriate". I think you can still respond guardedly to other personal questions but don't respond in a friendly/eager way which makes him think that he can escalate the intimacy of the conversation. Become a boring target.
Jerks like this feed off responses, even negative responses. Try to give him the bare minimum to react to.
I also think you need to be telling your manager about this ASAP.
I wish I could give you more assertive suggestions but as a junior member of staff, in your first job out of college, with no immediate job to go to, I am not sure you have any power in this situation and I wouldn't want to recommend a course of action to you that had the possibility of making your situation worse.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:30 AM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
There is an icky thing that happens sometimes when you get a bit older - you hit that age of perceived socially acceptable sex partner in the eyes of (sometimes much) older men, and their relationship with you switches from a very carefully maintained platonic friendliness to unwanted advances and directed interest in you "as a person" but it's actually them trying to find angles on manipulating you into wanting them back.
That's what really stuck out to me in your question, that time when he asked you a bunch of personal questions when he'd never before been interested in anything other than hearing his own voice. In a perfect world that would mean he's seeing you as more of an equal and someone to get to know on a more well-rounded level, but in combination with the other things you mention it means something far less benign. Because, when you actually want to get to know someone you work with, you occasionally ask a personal question when it feels comfortable in the moment; you don't grill them for an hour about their history and background out of the blue.
It feel gross because it is gross. It's exactly that daughter->wife transition and it's also got shades of moving from being on the bench to the "field", a field wherein he feels like he can play and you never gave consent to being in the game in the first place. It's happened to me a few times, once when I had volunteered in a group since my teens and turned 21 and suddenly all these gross old nerd guys started commenting on my physical body, once when I did contract work over a series of years and a co-contractor who sort of held power over me (we worked in teams and he was essentially a team lead) started hitting on me shortly after I told him it had been my 30th birthday the previous week (worse, he was married with young kids). It's happened to my friends, one off the top of my head was when shortly after graduating college she'd been working in an office with a guy for 6 years and it suddenly went from a mentoring relationship to a romantically creepy one - sound familiar? So, yeah, you are very much not alone.
I think in your case it's a matter of triage. Put your own oxygen mask on first and all that. Keep notes on everything creepy he does and says - maybe keep a file on your phone or something, write down dates and times along with what was said and done. It might be useful if you feel you can bring this to a supervisor, or you might quickly find a new job and be able to leave it with your previous employers like a nice little goodbye bomb.
If you're feeling stable and in a good place with your other coworkers (and your job hunt) you can be more assertive. When he says something inappropriate, say "I'm uncomfortable with that", practice saying it ahead of time. His reaction will be extremely telling - if he tries to touch you while apologizing it's a big red flag. If he's contrite and tries to make amends in a respectful way, you have an inroad. If he tries to give you gifts, say "I'm sorry, I can't accept this." Be cold and flat towards him except when he's treating you as you'd like to be treated. Practice it, it'll feel supremely mean but it's not! It's what you can do where you are right now.
But if you take stock and think that it's not going to help you get to where you want to be to confront him in that way, don't waste your energy with guilt. It's not your job to fix this guy.
posted by Mizu at 2:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
That's what really stuck out to me in your question, that time when he asked you a bunch of personal questions when he'd never before been interested in anything other than hearing his own voice. In a perfect world that would mean he's seeing you as more of an equal and someone to get to know on a more well-rounded level, but in combination with the other things you mention it means something far less benign. Because, when you actually want to get to know someone you work with, you occasionally ask a personal question when it feels comfortable in the moment; you don't grill them for an hour about their history and background out of the blue.
It feel gross because it is gross. It's exactly that daughter->wife transition and it's also got shades of moving from being on the bench to the "field", a field wherein he feels like he can play and you never gave consent to being in the game in the first place. It's happened to me a few times, once when I had volunteered in a group since my teens and turned 21 and suddenly all these gross old nerd guys started commenting on my physical body, once when I did contract work over a series of years and a co-contractor who sort of held power over me (we worked in teams and he was essentially a team lead) started hitting on me shortly after I told him it had been my 30th birthday the previous week (worse, he was married with young kids). It's happened to my friends, one off the top of my head was when shortly after graduating college she'd been working in an office with a guy for 6 years and it suddenly went from a mentoring relationship to a romantically creepy one - sound familiar? So, yeah, you are very much not alone.
I think in your case it's a matter of triage. Put your own oxygen mask on first and all that. Keep notes on everything creepy he does and says - maybe keep a file on your phone or something, write down dates and times along with what was said and done. It might be useful if you feel you can bring this to a supervisor, or you might quickly find a new job and be able to leave it with your previous employers like a nice little goodbye bomb.
If you're feeling stable and in a good place with your other coworkers (and your job hunt) you can be more assertive. When he says something inappropriate, say "I'm uncomfortable with that", practice saying it ahead of time. His reaction will be extremely telling - if he tries to touch you while apologizing it's a big red flag. If he's contrite and tries to make amends in a respectful way, you have an inroad. If he tries to give you gifts, say "I'm sorry, I can't accept this." Be cold and flat towards him except when he's treating you as you'd like to be treated. Practice it, it'll feel supremely mean but it's not! It's what you can do where you are right now.
But if you take stock and think that it's not going to help you get to where you want to be to confront him in that way, don't waste your energy with guilt. It's not your job to fix this guy.
posted by Mizu at 2:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
I think you should try to address this with him first. If he says creepy model, compliment comments, I personal would say ew. I'd follow it up with, that's not a compliment at work if it happened again. The reporting comes if consistently giving him negative feedback doesn't work. He may be having problems with his partner or dying parent or other thing that you're not aware of, that you're just seeing as creepy outbursts. This is not your concern but a few clear no messages may snap him back into less creepy.
posted by Kalmya at 2:47 AM on April 25, 2018
posted by Kalmya at 2:47 AM on April 25, 2018
Sorry to hear this is happening to you. Your instincts are probably right, but I'm afraid he hasn't yet been reportable.
In those kinds of cases, I seem to have the best luck by being off-puttingly a bit rude: someone buys me food. I hand it back. "Sorry, I'm a fussy eater. Give it to someone who would appreciate it. Thanks."
Someone tells me I could have modeled: "I prefer not to have any remarks about my looks. Thanks."
Generally, a few of these remarks will be enough to make him aware you don't have any incipient connection brewing, so if it's innocent, he will stop.
In the meantime, even if I wouldn't report him I would keep a log of issues and I would tell someone you trust he's making you uncomfortable. You can also use your local whisper network to warn other young junior women, but it's okay to make you be your first priority. I definitely do not think you owe him a learning moment,.
posted by frumiousb at 4:01 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
In those kinds of cases, I seem to have the best luck by being off-puttingly a bit rude: someone buys me food. I hand it back. "Sorry, I'm a fussy eater. Give it to someone who would appreciate it. Thanks."
Someone tells me I could have modeled: "I prefer not to have any remarks about my looks. Thanks."
Generally, a few of these remarks will be enough to make him aware you don't have any incipient connection brewing, so if it's innocent, he will stop.
In the meantime, even if I wouldn't report him I would keep a log of issues and I would tell someone you trust he's making you uncomfortable. You can also use your local whisper network to warn other young junior women, but it's okay to make you be your first priority. I definitely do not think you owe him a learning moment,.
posted by frumiousb at 4:01 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think you should be keeping contemporaneous notes—dates, times, and what was said—in case you end up needing them later.
posted by HotToddy at 5:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 5:44 AM on April 25, 2018 [10 favorites]
You need to confront him. The ethnic food is weird and the model comment was entirely out of line.
From what you've written, except for the ethnic thing, it's hard to tell if he's trying to be your pal and has never been down this road with a fem, or if something icky is going on (Or if he's going soft in the head.)
I don't know how many diversity and harassment meetings you have to miss to think ethnic foods and describing someone's body are okay. However, if you have not straight up - or humorously, for verve - told him where the lines are, this isn't really reportable. Especially considering his position.
Did other people hear the "like we're dating " and model comment? Be sure to check in, confirm they recall the comments, and document that.
Also, are you sure he doesn't have any history?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:09 AM on April 25, 2018
From what you've written, except for the ethnic thing, it's hard to tell if he's trying to be your pal and has never been down this road with a fem, or if something icky is going on (Or if he's going soft in the head.)
I don't know how many diversity and harassment meetings you have to miss to think ethnic foods and describing someone's body are okay. However, if you have not straight up - or humorously, for verve - told him where the lines are, this isn't really reportable. Especially considering his position.
Did other people hear the "like we're dating " and model comment? Be sure to check in, confirm they recall the comments, and document that.
Also, are you sure he doesn't have any history?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:09 AM on April 25, 2018
A quick in-the-moment response would be "What a strange thing to say/do!" It doesn't take a ton of bravery or ability to come up with a quick detailed response right in the moment. But it does instantly tag the behavior as notable and out of the boundaries of business interactions. And if you are in a group, it would make it pretty clear that the behavior is not welcome, which, if there's any escalation, would give you some backup. If he's implying things about your relationship being closer than it appears, it's also a pretty sick burn that puts him into a bit of a corner.
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:20 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:20 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think you should prepare for a scenario in which once you reject him, he retaliates, so I'd gather documentation -- notes about incidents, dates, and times, and evidence of positive performance reviews, and send it to yourself at your personal email address. I'd also look up a sexual harassment attorney in your jurisdiction and see if you can do a free consultation to get their advice. Basically, if rejecting what seems to be a pattern of growing advances gets you fired or demoted, you want to have a chance of getting a settlement or winning a lawsuit.
posted by salvia at 6:28 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by salvia at 6:28 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
I freaking LOVE cheesecake's suggestion and plan to use it every time I possibly can in my own life, including at a contractor who is currently creeping me out. He says: "We should run away to an island together." I say, "Haha, what a hoot, can I put this in your Yelp review?"
posted by MiraK at 6:49 AM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 6:49 AM on April 25, 2018 [7 favorites]
Now that this guy has started treating you this way, your easy camaraderie is probably over anyway. So fuck him.
You know the face that Chrissy Tiegen made when Stacey Dash was embarassing herself at the Oscars? I practiced that in the mirror while thinking of all the uncomfortable (but not quite awful) things men have said to me. And now whenever someone makes those kind of overtures, I give them my best grimace instead of nervously laughing. It's a rude response to rude conversation and makes them feel just as awkward as they made me feel.
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:10 AM on April 25, 2018 [9 favorites]
You know the face that Chrissy Tiegen made when Stacey Dash was embarassing herself at the Oscars? I practiced that in the mirror while thinking of all the uncomfortable (but not quite awful) things men have said to me. And now whenever someone makes those kind of overtures, I give them my best grimace instead of nervously laughing. It's a rude response to rude conversation and makes them feel just as awkward as they made me feel.
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:10 AM on April 25, 2018 [9 favorites]
A couple of options to put on the table:
- Interview HR. Ask your HR about their process for dealing with sexual harassment by supervisors. What reports do they want? Who hears reports? How are they kept confidential? What is the process for documenting and investigating reports? How do they protect employees from retaliation? How, in general terms, have situations been resolved in the past? Basically sit down with a person, critically interview the organization, learn about the process, decide when and if it can help. Our sense here of "reportable" or not may not have much to do with the reality of your office.
Possible script for this, once you have a meeting with the right person: "I have a supervisor who has started making inappropriate sexual comments to me, and about me to other coworkers. From past experience I believe he may retaliate if I confront him. I'm not ready to make a report yet, but I have some questions about the process."
- Chat with an employment lawyer for half an hour. Ask what you can do to preserve your rights and protect yourself in this situation while you wait for the other shoe to drop.
Lawyers are scary, so here's who I'm picturing: an employee-side employment lawyer like one I used to work for who's been in practice for decades, works solo or with a small firm, and would be very unlikely to charge for a half hour phone call full of good, friendly advice.
Possible script for seeking that conversation: "I'm an employee being sexually harassed by a supervisor. I don't know if he's done anything illegal yet, but I'd like some advice on what my rights are and what I should be doing to protect myself."
You don't ever have to make a report to HR or pursue your legal rights -- but it might help to know what's available to you. The truth is we in this thread have no idea what kind of options you have. It depends on your specific workplace, jurisdiction, and facts we don't know. But you do have options, and it might help a lot just to know that you do and what they are.
Also just on a personal note, remember that you're under zero ethical obligation to give this supervisor the benefit of the doubt, in your head or outside. You're not crazy -- you're seeing clear signs of classic inappropriate behavior. Whether he's an intentional sexual harasser or accidental sexual harasser is not your problem -- he's creating an unsafe workplace either way.
posted by john hadron collider at 7:13 AM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
- Interview HR. Ask your HR about their process for dealing with sexual harassment by supervisors. What reports do they want? Who hears reports? How are they kept confidential? What is the process for documenting and investigating reports? How do they protect employees from retaliation? How, in general terms, have situations been resolved in the past? Basically sit down with a person, critically interview the organization, learn about the process, decide when and if it can help. Our sense here of "reportable" or not may not have much to do with the reality of your office.
Possible script for this, once you have a meeting with the right person: "I have a supervisor who has started making inappropriate sexual comments to me, and about me to other coworkers. From past experience I believe he may retaliate if I confront him. I'm not ready to make a report yet, but I have some questions about the process."
- Chat with an employment lawyer for half an hour. Ask what you can do to preserve your rights and protect yourself in this situation while you wait for the other shoe to drop.
Lawyers are scary, so here's who I'm picturing: an employee-side employment lawyer like one I used to work for who's been in practice for decades, works solo or with a small firm, and would be very unlikely to charge for a half hour phone call full of good, friendly advice.
Possible script for seeking that conversation: "I'm an employee being sexually harassed by a supervisor. I don't know if he's done anything illegal yet, but I'd like some advice on what my rights are and what I should be doing to protect myself."
You don't ever have to make a report to HR or pursue your legal rights -- but it might help to know what's available to you. The truth is we in this thread have no idea what kind of options you have. It depends on your specific workplace, jurisdiction, and facts we don't know. But you do have options, and it might help a lot just to know that you do and what they are.
Also just on a personal note, remember that you're under zero ethical obligation to give this supervisor the benefit of the doubt, in your head or outside. You're not crazy -- you're seeing clear signs of classic inappropriate behavior. Whether he's an intentional sexual harasser or accidental sexual harasser is not your problem -- he's creating an unsafe workplace either way.
posted by john hadron collider at 7:13 AM on April 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
How did your other co-worker react when he made that hooking up comment? That's just awful and if the co-worker wasn't surprised, he may think you and this guy are having an affair already. Or it may be such a toxic workplace that this kind of thing is normal.
What strikes me in your account is how isolated you seem to be in the rest of the organization. This guy has "protected" you but it sounds like he has separated you from the herd in that process. If you don't have some friends in the workplace, preferably some who have perspective, make some. If it's someone who's been around a while, you may hear some things from them that help you make a decision. And you may need people besides this guy to help you with recommendations. I can't tell how easy it would be to jump ship, but that might be the best thing. Document your work as well as his behavior.
posted by BibiRose at 8:11 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
What strikes me in your account is how isolated you seem to be in the rest of the organization. This guy has "protected" you but it sounds like he has separated you from the herd in that process. If you don't have some friends in the workplace, preferably some who have perspective, make some. If it's someone who's been around a while, you may hear some things from them that help you make a decision. And you may need people besides this guy to help you with recommendations. I can't tell how easy it would be to jump ship, but that might be the best thing. Document your work as well as his behavior.
posted by BibiRose at 8:11 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
This sounds incredibly annoying, intrusive and creepy. In my experience, men will never understand why these comments are so bothersome and how little remarks add up. I had a boss who did this once and, because it was a small contractor gig and there was no HR or anything, my solution was to mainly avoid him and make sure we only talked about work. I'm pretty sure I posted an anonymous question on AskMeFi asking what to do. I determined that, for me, since I was hoping to use the gig to advance my career, the best course was to not confront my boss and then just move on, which I have done and my career has advanced quite a bit since then.
As for what you should do, that really is a personal decision. There is no right or wrong answer. But I just want to let you know that you are not overreacting and this guy is being a inappropriate.
I will say I personally disagree with the advice here to say "Oh, how nice - can I get that in writing?" because this clueless creep doesn't realize he is doing anything wrong and the notion of you telling someone else what he did won't register as a concern for him. All you'd be doing is making it sounds like you appreciate it and encourage more of his behavior. Personally, what I'd do is shut shit down and make it slightly awkward for him, but not confront him and gloss past it. "Um, I'll pass. Anyway, I'm gonna get back to my desk." "That's not funny. Anyway, can we talk about this project?" I would steer everything back to work and I wouldn't smile and laugh just to make him feel comfortable. You have to gauge what you can and cannot do for your job, but I wouldn't make him think you're encouraging it if you can help it (not that I think you ever invited these weird-ass comments in the first place).
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:41 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
As for what you should do, that really is a personal decision. There is no right or wrong answer. But I just want to let you know that you are not overreacting and this guy is being a inappropriate.
I will say I personally disagree with the advice here to say "Oh, how nice - can I get that in writing?" because this clueless creep doesn't realize he is doing anything wrong and the notion of you telling someone else what he did won't register as a concern for him. All you'd be doing is making it sounds like you appreciate it and encourage more of his behavior. Personally, what I'd do is shut shit down and make it slightly awkward for him, but not confront him and gloss past it. "Um, I'll pass. Anyway, I'm gonna get back to my desk." "That's not funny. Anyway, can we talk about this project?" I would steer everything back to work and I wouldn't smile and laugh just to make him feel comfortable. You have to gauge what you can and cannot do for your job, but I wouldn't make him think you're encouraging it if you can help it (not that I think you ever invited these weird-ass comments in the first place).
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:41 AM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Direct confrontation is likely to be very unpleasant. Don't make enemies in your field. This is a job for side-eye, puzzled look, and deflection. Don't laugh, it's perceived as girly and flirtatious. Don't show discomfort, a lot of men pet more pursuant if they see discomfort.
1) "Yeah, grad school is all about hooking up, Anonymous knows about that, right?" Excuse Me? and raised eyebrows.
2) "It's like we are dating.” Excuse Me? and raised eyebrows.
3) asking me personal questions. What a lot of personal questions. Let's talk about work and how to address X issue.
4) "Did you ever model? You have the build for it, tall and thin.” Side-eye, no response.
5) Today he surprised me with a snack from the food trucks outside because the food reminded him of my ethnic background. This is verging on racism, which HR might care about. A polite thank you. and no further discussion.
Document every instance because it may become actionable. You know you'll see him, you know you'll have meetings. Keep a mental list of topics so you can immediately change the subject. If he realizes you're setting limits, he may up the ante, so be prepared to be calm and keep deflecting. Useful phrases - Let's get back to business. It's kind of you to show an interest, but what about the Blah of Work-Related-Thing. My personal life is rather boring, what was your take on Person's Memo about Work Issue? If he offers a disclaimer I'm not harassing you, right? Just noting that color looks great on you. Nothin' wrong with a compliment, right? sort of thing, just say I think Work-Related Issue is more interesting. How have you handled work Thing in the past?
I think the best way to combat this crap is to have a fantastic career, have a position of power, and hire and mentor women.
posted by theora55 at 9:16 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
1) "Yeah, grad school is all about hooking up, Anonymous knows about that, right?" Excuse Me? and raised eyebrows.
2) "It's like we are dating.” Excuse Me? and raised eyebrows.
3) asking me personal questions. What a lot of personal questions. Let's talk about work and how to address X issue.
4) "Did you ever model? You have the build for it, tall and thin.” Side-eye, no response.
5) Today he surprised me with a snack from the food trucks outside because the food reminded him of my ethnic background. This is verging on racism, which HR might care about. A polite thank you. and no further discussion.
Document every instance because it may become actionable. You know you'll see him, you know you'll have meetings. Keep a mental list of topics so you can immediately change the subject. If he realizes you're setting limits, he may up the ante, so be prepared to be calm and keep deflecting. Useful phrases - Let's get back to business. It's kind of you to show an interest, but what about the Blah of Work-Related-Thing. My personal life is rather boring, what was your take on Person's Memo about Work Issue? If he offers a disclaimer I'm not harassing you, right? Just noting that color looks great on you. Nothin' wrong with a compliment, right? sort of thing, just say I think Work-Related Issue is more interesting. How have you handled work Thing in the past?
I think the best way to combat this crap is to have a fantastic career, have a position of power, and hire and mentor women.
posted by theora55 at 9:16 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
As an Artist Formerly Known As A Very Attractive Woman, I couldn't disagree more with how a lot of the answers downplay your situation. This is such a classic case of sexual harassment it belongs in an employee training manual! It is not the prequel, as some suggested - it's the main movie 30 minutes in, after all the characters have been set up and the central conflict point has been introduced. I am especially appalled that the man in question is being painted as some sort of a clueless but well-meaning doofus - he is several corporate layers above you and apparently very well versed in work politics and I GUARANTEE you he knows full well what he is doing.
What you posted is exactly what white-collar sexual harassment looks like in this millennium. Take it from someone who's been through the same old cycle many, many times - it's like the 5 stages of grief, you just know what's going to happen next. In my personal experience (and that of several friends) it usually takes a year or two to get to this point and I suspect it took you 5 years because he started having some problems in his marriage (or perhaps just feeling the sex is stale and his sexy years are running out, not that his precise motivations make any difference). So he is feeling out exit avenues and it just so happens that there is a captive young woman who just lost the last of her post-teen baby fat so he can plausibly delude himself into thinking you are age appropriate and available.
His advances clearly and unequivocally fall under every definition of sexual harassment, from DOL to EEOC to all the major dictionaries and I am truly dismayed that people would say otherwise. I mean, just look at the incidents you've posted. Obscene remarks (particularly #1)? Check. Directed at an employee because of their gender ? Check (insofar as "attractive young woman" is a gender unto itself). Unwanted? Check (subjective to the person affected as per DOL/EEOC definition). Quid Pro Quo (particularly #5)? Check. Potential for adverse employment decisions? Check.
As far as practical steps:
As much as it pains me to say so, your options are not (a) sit it out, or (b) take one for the team. You have to take one for the team, Team You, because these men do not stop at remarks no matter how awkwardly you laugh or how high you raise your eyebrows while you say "excuse me?!" or all the other well-meaning advice that you get as a young woman. The harassers know very well what they are doing and it ain't innocent flirting with no end goal in mind. They want to get to the home base and they will not stop because you talk to them nicely any more than they will stop because they are married with children (as he's already shown). Your harasser will escalate until you can't take it anymore and when that happens, when that line is crossed where he can no longer delude himself about his desirability in your eyes, he will turn on you. He will twist the situation in his own mind where nothing you do at work will ever be right, even if it's all the same things that were absolutely brilliant before. He will be clever and vicious and he will make your continued employment miserable until you are forced to leave, feeling like a failure and physically ill from stress.
First, I encourage you to google employment lawyers, get a couple emails, and send them what you've posted here. Ask if there is reason for you to talk and if you don't get any interest, try another couple emails but this time just say that you are being sexually harassed at work and you would like to have a brief in-person chat. Most lawyers are really useful even if it's just a free 15-minute consultation.
Next, talk to HR. It's a lousy option but you don't have options that are not lousy, thanks to your harasser deciding that his dick is more important than your career. Don't let HR steamroll you and say it's not a big deal. This man holds power over you and he is sexually harassing you and grooming you for a future Quid Pro Quo to have sex. The fact that you believe that is enough for DOL/EEOC (and you clearly do since you are fleeing your current employment situation because of him). You are not requesting action at this point but you are putting them on notice to ward off retaliation. Then you follow up with an email to HR to repeat these things. (You really should do this after talking to your local employment lawyer because they will tell you which words are important to use, such as "quid pro quo" and "retaliation"). Don't mention that you are looking for a new job. Based on what happens next, if they are not acting in good faith to protect you, you may want to negotiate a settlement when you leave, so don't divulge information that limits your options.
Good luck! I am more than happy to talk to you on the phone or via email if you need support so feel free to DM me if you need to. And don't let the naysayers here cast a gloom over your future career - you are clearly a very mature and capable young woman whose mind and heart are in the right place. All will be good because you are good.
posted by rada at 9:55 AM on April 25, 2018 [23 favorites]
What you posted is exactly what white-collar sexual harassment looks like in this millennium. Take it from someone who's been through the same old cycle many, many times - it's like the 5 stages of grief, you just know what's going to happen next. In my personal experience (and that of several friends) it usually takes a year or two to get to this point and I suspect it took you 5 years because he started having some problems in his marriage (or perhaps just feeling the sex is stale and his sexy years are running out, not that his precise motivations make any difference). So he is feeling out exit avenues and it just so happens that there is a captive young woman who just lost the last of her post-teen baby fat so he can plausibly delude himself into thinking you are age appropriate and available.
His advances clearly and unequivocally fall under every definition of sexual harassment, from DOL to EEOC to all the major dictionaries and I am truly dismayed that people would say otherwise. I mean, just look at the incidents you've posted. Obscene remarks (particularly #1)? Check. Directed at an employee because of their gender ? Check (insofar as "attractive young woman" is a gender unto itself). Unwanted? Check (subjective to the person affected as per DOL/EEOC definition). Quid Pro Quo (particularly #5)? Check. Potential for adverse employment decisions? Check.
As far as practical steps:
As much as it pains me to say so, your options are not (a) sit it out, or (b) take one for the team. You have to take one for the team, Team You, because these men do not stop at remarks no matter how awkwardly you laugh or how high you raise your eyebrows while you say "excuse me?!" or all the other well-meaning advice that you get as a young woman. The harassers know very well what they are doing and it ain't innocent flirting with no end goal in mind. They want to get to the home base and they will not stop because you talk to them nicely any more than they will stop because they are married with children (as he's already shown). Your harasser will escalate until you can't take it anymore and when that happens, when that line is crossed where he can no longer delude himself about his desirability in your eyes, he will turn on you. He will twist the situation in his own mind where nothing you do at work will ever be right, even if it's all the same things that were absolutely brilliant before. He will be clever and vicious and he will make your continued employment miserable until you are forced to leave, feeling like a failure and physically ill from stress.
First, I encourage you to google employment lawyers, get a couple emails, and send them what you've posted here. Ask if there is reason for you to talk and if you don't get any interest, try another couple emails but this time just say that you are being sexually harassed at work and you would like to have a brief in-person chat. Most lawyers are really useful even if it's just a free 15-minute consultation.
Next, talk to HR. It's a lousy option but you don't have options that are not lousy, thanks to your harasser deciding that his dick is more important than your career. Don't let HR steamroll you and say it's not a big deal. This man holds power over you and he is sexually harassing you and grooming you for a future Quid Pro Quo to have sex. The fact that you believe that is enough for DOL/EEOC (and you clearly do since you are fleeing your current employment situation because of him). You are not requesting action at this point but you are putting them on notice to ward off retaliation. Then you follow up with an email to HR to repeat these things. (You really should do this after talking to your local employment lawyer because they will tell you which words are important to use, such as "quid pro quo" and "retaliation"). Don't mention that you are looking for a new job. Based on what happens next, if they are not acting in good faith to protect you, you may want to negotiate a settlement when you leave, so don't divulge information that limits your options.
Good luck! I am more than happy to talk to you on the phone or via email if you need support so feel free to DM me if you need to. And don't let the naysayers here cast a gloom over your future career - you are clearly a very mature and capable young woman whose mind and heart are in the right place. All will be good because you are good.
posted by rada at 9:55 AM on April 25, 2018 [23 favorites]
He is making you feel uncomfortable. According to the training I received you have to tell him that. If the behavior persists after the warning, then you go to HR.
posted by w0mbat at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by w0mbat at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
There are two types of sexual harassment. One is Quid Pro Quo and the other is Hostile Work Environment. Here is the difference. The Quid Pro Quo harassment is "generally committed by someone who can effectively make or recommend formal employment decisions (such as termination, demotion, or denial of promotion) that will affect the victim", which is the case for OP. Giving a warning can work well when the problem is a hostile work environment created by co-workers or clients (I've done it myself) but does not apply to Quid Pro Quo harassment because of the immediate path to retaliation. I myself have given "warnings" to co-workers and clients but it does. not. work. when it's your boss (or grandboss).
posted by rada at 10:50 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by rada at 10:50 AM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
Really outstanding advice from rada and I agree that this absolutely isn't something that you need to endure alone or work on alone. See an employment lawyer and develop a plan. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
posted by Kwine at 11:24 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Kwine at 11:24 AM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
What rada said about notifying HR to ward off retaliation is very good.
posted by LizardBreath at 11:47 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by LizardBreath at 11:47 AM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is not a substitute for complaining to HR, or to getting a lawyer, and it might or might not be a good idea depending on the personalities and the organization. But something that might derail whatever the hell he thinks he's doing is not threatening to tell other people about it, but actually telling other people about it. Lots. In a chatterboxy, gossipy kind of way, including in front of him -- framing it kind of neutrally, as behavior that's odd enough to be worthy of comment, but not necessarily explicitly calling it harassment.
This is super awkward and kind of rude, of course. He thinks he's got a private relationship with you where you're obligated to keep everything he does confidential. But he doesn't have any real basis to hold you to that kind of obligation of confidentiality, and so if you reject it and just talk about everything weird he says and does openly, he's on notice that you're not keeping his secrets, and he's less likely to move on to something that he really doesn't want you to repeat.
This will not preserve your good working relationship with him, but I think that's hopeless at this point.
posted by LizardBreath at 12:05 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is super awkward and kind of rude, of course. He thinks he's got a private relationship with you where you're obligated to keep everything he does confidential. But he doesn't have any real basis to hold you to that kind of obligation of confidentiality, and so if you reject it and just talk about everything weird he says and does openly, he's on notice that you're not keeping his secrets, and he's less likely to move on to something that he really doesn't want you to repeat.
This will not preserve your good working relationship with him, but I think that's hopeless at this point.
posted by LizardBreath at 12:05 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
If he says creepy model, compliment comments, I personal would say ew.
I do another version of this. I stop talking, look the person in the eye, do a few *blink, blink, blinks* as though I did not hear what they said or at least as though I am trying to decide that I heard accurately what they said and then after like 30 seconds of silence I go "What?" or "I'm sorry, what did you say?".
It puts a spotlight on them because now you are looking them directly in the eye and they either have to repeat what they said, which you both know is creepy and they will basically be highlighting their own creepiness, or they will deflect with something bland like "oh I was just joking", at which point you can say "oh, good, because I thought I heard you say I looked like a model and I thought that was a really strange thing to say to a colleague." effectively putting the person on notice that Hey, I'm on to you and it's not cool.
Approaching the situation this way allows creepy guy to save face, which is absolutely not appropriate in all scenarios but might be appropriate in this scenario where you are still forced to work with the guy and where you count on his political cover, until you can get out of your current working scenario.
In the meantime, start building more allies at work so that you don't need his political cover. With a little more independence from him at work, you will be a little bit freer to address his creepiness more boldly in the future.
posted by vignettist at 1:43 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I do another version of this. I stop talking, look the person in the eye, do a few *blink, blink, blinks* as though I did not hear what they said or at least as though I am trying to decide that I heard accurately what they said and then after like 30 seconds of silence I go "What?" or "I'm sorry, what did you say?".
It puts a spotlight on them because now you are looking them directly in the eye and they either have to repeat what they said, which you both know is creepy and they will basically be highlighting their own creepiness, or they will deflect with something bland like "oh I was just joking", at which point you can say "oh, good, because I thought I heard you say I looked like a model and I thought that was a really strange thing to say to a colleague." effectively putting the person on notice that Hey, I'm on to you and it's not cool.
Approaching the situation this way allows creepy guy to save face, which is absolutely not appropriate in all scenarios but might be appropriate in this scenario where you are still forced to work with the guy and where you count on his political cover, until you can get out of your current working scenario.
In the meantime, start building more allies at work so that you don't need his political cover. With a little more independence from him at work, you will be a little bit freer to address his creepiness more boldly in the future.
posted by vignettist at 1:43 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I validate the inappropriateness of this man’s comments, but I disagree with you that he has done nothing reportable. All of the incidents you mention are inappropriate on their own, and taken together, they show a clear pattern of boundary-violating behavior. I also agree your responsibility is to yourself at this point and you should do what you are most comfortable doing, but if you are mulling over reporting him, consider that your report may help establish a pattern in the event he does something like this to someone else in the future.
posted by lieber hair at 7:47 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lieber hair at 7:47 PM on April 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
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I admire women who stand up to this stuff. I want to be them.
You are on the verge of becoming one.
And I’m also terrified of the blowback. This man has power and a very sensitive ego (don’t they all though?)
Do you fear the specific or the unknown? Do you fear losing his good humour? (Likely). Is that cost worth it to become a woman you admire? (I hope so).
Develop a script, short and sweet. Don't wait for him to do something, walk in one morning and say your piece first thing.
"Granville, it's been good working with you these part five years but lately something's changed and you seem to be treating me with more intimacy than I am comfortable with. I prefer treating each other with professional respect. So no more questions about my personal life or jokes about anything between us. I assume it's just banter but it makes me uncomfortable. Thanks for understanding."
And then follow up with a general comment like "nice weather" or "coffee?" or whatever seems natural in the day-to-day.
Hopefully, this will give him an out as just being over-friendly, and it will send a message that you have no romantic feelings for him. Not every man turns dragon immediately but if he starts breathing fire, just repeat: "I prefer treating each other with professional respect," and leave the room.
No matter what he does, you will feel like your own hero for nipping this in the bud before it becomes anything bigger. Hopefully he'll come to appreciate your candour, though it might take a day or two for him to calm down.
You got this.
posted by Thella at 12:20 AM on April 25, 2018 [11 favorites]