An adventure company is stealing from people - can I take action?
April 20, 2018 3:05 AM Subscribe
About this time last year a new adventure company stole from me. I eventually got my money back, but they are still stealing from others and today a national newspaper promoted them. Can I/should I do something?
This time last year I was due to embark on a day of watersports with a new company. At the last minute the owner of the company cancelled, citing his dying mother-in-law as the reason. I had to book the trip online and afterwards he ignored all communications to get my money back. Finally I involved the police (to his great surprise) and he refunded it later that day.
In the meantime, I did a bit of research on Tripadvisor, and all recent reviews of the past year are complaints that he has stolen their money. He has people sign up for his trip, cancels and never returns the money.
Today a national newspaper (and my favourite paper) is promoting his company and their services. When I tried to leave a fairly measured comment explaining what happened, they removed it. When I attempted to do the same on TripAdvisor they also removed that. Apparently telling the truth and the desire to help other people avoid being swindled is against community guidelines.
In all seriousness, I am a freelance journalist (but only just starting out) and I my anger has been renewed after reading the article. After doing a bit more research, I discover he has again stolen less than a month ago.
What should I do? Can I do anything? I felt angry this mrning watching my favourite promote someone I know to be a thief. Stealing from people in thei country and ruining watersports opportunities for people that are genuinely passionate about them.
This time last year I was due to embark on a day of watersports with a new company. At the last minute the owner of the company cancelled, citing his dying mother-in-law as the reason. I had to book the trip online and afterwards he ignored all communications to get my money back. Finally I involved the police (to his great surprise) and he refunded it later that day.
In the meantime, I did a bit of research on Tripadvisor, and all recent reviews of the past year are complaints that he has stolen their money. He has people sign up for his trip, cancels and never returns the money.
Today a national newspaper (and my favourite paper) is promoting his company and their services. When I tried to leave a fairly measured comment explaining what happened, they removed it. When I attempted to do the same on TripAdvisor they also removed that. Apparently telling the truth and the desire to help other people avoid being swindled is against community guidelines.
In all seriousness, I am a freelance journalist (but only just starting out) and I my anger has been renewed after reading the article. After doing a bit more research, I discover he has again stolen less than a month ago.
What should I do? Can I do anything? I felt angry this mrning watching my favourite promote someone I know to be a thief. Stealing from people in thei country and ruining watersports opportunities for people that are genuinely passionate about them.
The Guardian's consumer columns are usually good ("Your problems with Anna Tims", and "Consumer champions"), although you've already got your money back they do sometimes publish warnings about companies who are acting badly. I suspect it might be the Guardian that you're talking about (having had a peek at their Travel page) - but I think the consumer columns have published complaints about companies featured in the Guardian before.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:50 AM on April 20, 2018
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:50 AM on April 20, 2018
What's interesting is there are five 1 or 2 star reviews on their TripAdvisor page (assuming I'm looking at the right one) so it's not like they remove all the negative ones. Can you resubmit your review, maybe taking cues from the existing reviews as to how to phrase things to stop it being removed?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:58 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:58 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
For Trip Advisor, is that the only review you’ve written? They (and other review sites) are more likely to remove or hide a very negative review (or even an extremely positive one) if it’s your only submission. As I understand it it’s part of their algorithm for preventing fake reviews aimed to either elevate or sabotage businesses for more personal reasons.
If that’s the case, perhaps leaving a few other more satisfactory reviews for businesses you like, combined with the advice above, will help your review stick.
Also, don’t underestimate the power of a good social media rant.
posted by scrute at 4:13 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
If that’s the case, perhaps leaving a few other more satisfactory reviews for businesses you like, combined with the advice above, will help your review stick.
Also, don’t underestimate the power of a good social media rant.
posted by scrute at 4:13 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Seconding Vortisaur here. TripAdvisor can't do anything to stop this kind of thing happening. Trading Standards can. It's important to note that even if TS don't investigate your case, they may keep your evidence for possible future actions.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 4:13 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 4:13 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
For future reference if you'd paid for this on a credit card you can get a Section 75 refund if it cost £100 or more, or a chargeback if it cost less.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:23 AM on April 20, 2018
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:23 AM on April 20, 2018
I live in the UK.
Get advice from Trading Standards. In a way, it's unfortunate you've had your refund, as if you'd not you could report him to Inland Revenue for trading whilst insolvent, which would put the actual fear of God into him.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:40 AM on April 20, 2018
Get advice from Trading Standards. In a way, it's unfortunate you've had your refund, as if you'd not you could report him to Inland Revenue for trading whilst insolvent, which would put the actual fear of God into him.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:40 AM on April 20, 2018
How involved are you in the wider community for this activity? I'm do a relatively small water sport in the UK and would hope that someone would flag this kind of behaviour on one of the community forums.
posted by fatfrank at 5:24 AM on April 20, 2018
posted by fatfrank at 5:24 AM on April 20, 2018
If it is the same company whom I think it is (did some Google sleuthing), the Tripadvisor page has been taken down.
However, the cached version of the Tripadvisor page is still up. I would suggest you go to the Google Cache, screenshot EVERYTHING before it disappears.
Then send an email to the article writer. Include, very detailed explanation on how your trip was cancelled, as well as a link to the cache, and attachments of the screenshots. To make an effective complaint, do not use angry language. State your case factually, and use a clear timeline. Example:
1st December 2016: Booked over phone. The trip was for four people for one day. Confirmation through email received. The terms and conditions were [xx]
15th December: Money debited from account.
30th December: Received email from person saying trip was cancelled. Asked for refund.
etc.
Send another email to trading standards.
Write a public Facebook post and attach the screenshots. Link whoever you can think of: other watersports Facebook groups, the newspaper itself, the company itself.
posted by moiraine at 5:48 AM on April 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
However, the cached version of the Tripadvisor page is still up. I would suggest you go to the Google Cache, screenshot EVERYTHING before it disappears.
Then send an email to the article writer. Include, very detailed explanation on how your trip was cancelled, as well as a link to the cache, and attachments of the screenshots. To make an effective complaint, do not use angry language. State your case factually, and use a clear timeline. Example:
1st December 2016: Booked over phone. The trip was for four people for one day. Confirmation through email received. The terms and conditions were [xx]
15th December: Money debited from account.
30th December: Received email from person saying trip was cancelled. Asked for refund.
etc.
Send another email to trading standards.
Write a public Facebook post and attach the screenshots. Link whoever you can think of: other watersports Facebook groups, the newspaper itself, the company itself.
posted by moiraine at 5:48 AM on April 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
Make a website with some URL like "adventurecompanynameisascam.com" and put up your own website about it in hopes that it shows up in search engines. If you have this info up on other websites, it looks like it's being deleted on you, so maybe if you have one that's under your control you might have better luck.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:26 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:26 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
If it's the company suggested by EndsOfInvention then the negative comments are coming in this past couple of hours:
"It may be worth checking this travel company's recent reviews on TripAdvisor before making a booking"
and
"Yup. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot paddleboard paddle".
So there's hope yet. I hate companies like this, thank you for persevering!
posted by humph at 6:56 AM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
"It may be worth checking this travel company's recent reviews on TripAdvisor before making a booking"
and
"Yup. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot paddleboard paddle".
So there's hope yet. I hate companies like this, thank you for persevering!
posted by humph at 6:56 AM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
FWIW I can still see the Trip Advisor page, if it is the same one as in the Guardian article, and the top 5 reviews are very negative about waiting for refunds, the most recent from 10 March. I think you should persevere in a getting a review through and the suggestion of writing a few reviews for other places first sounds right.
posted by like_neon at 7:11 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by like_neon at 7:11 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I tweeted the article's author a link to the TripAdvisor page earlier FWIW.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:26 AM on April 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:26 AM on April 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'd suggest also making comments like "Make sure you pay by credit card to make refunds easier when trips are cancelled" or wording to the effect; you can warn people without being openly critical to the company (which i know you want to do, and it's probably justified, but those critical comments may also be more likely to be removed).
posted by cgg at 7:30 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cgg at 7:30 AM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
When anything like this happens in the running community, facebook groups for runners are full of it. There usually turns out to be a string of people who've been fobbed off/treated shabbily, before the company finally goes utterly tits up. Maybe find some paddleboarding groups, join them, and post in there? I guess the trips are maybe aimed more at people who don't paddleboard already, but Scotland's pretty small, and word travels.
posted by penguin pie at 9:33 AM on April 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by penguin pie at 9:33 AM on April 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: So thank you for all your replies.
After the incident where the police contacted him and he had to return the money he said 'I trust this will be the end of it' - frankly, it would have been the end of it if he hadn't continued to be immoral and steal from people. He now has T&Cs as EndsofInvention noted saying they don't offer refunds under any circumstances (bear in mind the owner himself has cancelled several times on people). These T&Cs didn't exist last Spring and he told me he was happy to refund. Certainly these T&Cs have just recently appeared while many people remain out of pocket and angry. The guy takes no responsibility whatsoever for his company failings.
Either way, I contacted the paper and I am going to contact Trading Standards. Especially as I see he has now raised his prices. *fatfrank* do send me a message if you think I should post to some forums. Thanks!
posted by Willow251 at 12:01 PM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
After the incident where the police contacted him and he had to return the money he said 'I trust this will be the end of it' - frankly, it would have been the end of it if he hadn't continued to be immoral and steal from people. He now has T&Cs as EndsofInvention noted saying they don't offer refunds under any circumstances (bear in mind the owner himself has cancelled several times on people). These T&Cs didn't exist last Spring and he told me he was happy to refund. Certainly these T&Cs have just recently appeared while many people remain out of pocket and angry. The guy takes no responsibility whatsoever for his company failings.
Either way, I contacted the paper and I am going to contact Trading Standards. Especially as I see he has now raised his prices. *fatfrank* do send me a message if you think I should post to some forums. Thanks!
posted by Willow251 at 12:01 PM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
In the event of cancellation by us, we will offer an alternative activity, date or credit note (valid for a year). We do not issue refunds. We advise you to take out insurance against cancellation.
This part of his T&Cs is pretty clearly not legal (to me), following on from your update, so definitely worth specifically citing that when you contact Trading Standards (you'll contact them in his jurisdiction, right?
posted by ambrosen at 1:44 PM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
This part of his T&Cs is pretty clearly not legal (to me), following on from your update, so definitely worth specifically citing that when you contact Trading Standards (you'll contact them in his jurisdiction, right?
posted by ambrosen at 1:44 PM on April 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Sure, ambrosen, I will make sure I do it this weekend. Thanks for the info.
posted by Willow251 at 1:51 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Willow251 at 1:51 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:07 AM on April 20, 2018