Feminists before the term feminism was coined
April 11, 2018 11:00 AM Subscribe
What were feminists called before the term feminism was coined? And what did they call themselves? In particular, what about Olympe de Gouges who was active around the French Revolution? Most sources (that I can find quickly) call them feminists or proto-feminists, but the term was apparently not invented until 1837.
The Historical Thesaurus of the Oxford English Dictionary does not list any term meaning 'feminist' prior to that word's appearance, so there wasn't one in English, and I doubt there were any in general, since it wasn't a "thing" requiring a word—there was no organized movement needing a label, just the occasional woman proposing the outlandish idea that women were equal to men.
> The term suffragette was often used in place of the word Feminist despite the fact that they are not synonyms
You are talking about a much later period than is being asked about. Please, people, read the question and don't shoot from the hip.
posted by languagehat at 11:32 AM on April 11, 2018 [9 favorites]
> The term suffragette was often used in place of the word Feminist despite the fact that they are not synonyms
You are talking about a much later period than is being asked about. Please, people, read the question and don't shoot from the hip.
posted by languagehat at 11:32 AM on April 11, 2018 [9 favorites]
In college our women's studies professor liked to say that the most likely thing a feminist was called before the 1800's was "witch"
I think a less glib answer would be thousands of different things, as women actively trying to subvert their roles prior to 1837 would be historically rare enough as to be singular phenomenons throughout the world and not seen as part of any greater movement. The early examples I can think of "Women's Right Advocates" "Lucy Stoners" and "New Women" on further research all come after 1837.
posted by French Fry at 11:46 AM on April 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
I think a less glib answer would be thousands of different things, as women actively trying to subvert their roles prior to 1837 would be historically rare enough as to be singular phenomenons throughout the world and not seen as part of any greater movement. The early examples I can think of "Women's Right Advocates" "Lucy Stoners" and "New Women" on further research all come after 1837.
posted by French Fry at 11:46 AM on April 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Bluestockings. In the 17th through 19th centuries, women with an intellectual bent were disparaged. These were also the women most likely to rebel against the many restrictions placed on them in the 17th century and beyond. They were considered radicals. Mary Wollstonecraft was a celebrated bluestocking who wrote "Vindication of the Rights of Women" in 1792, which inspired future feminists such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
posted by Enid Lareg at 11:47 AM on April 11, 2018 [28 favorites]
posted by Enid Lareg at 11:47 AM on April 11, 2018 [28 favorites]
Agreed that Mary Wollstonecraft is the best contemporary I can think of, so that would be the place I'd search for relevant terms.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:57 AM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:57 AM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
According to Wikipedia, the French “bas bleu” has a similarconnotation to the English “bluestocking”.
posted by epj at 12:30 PM on April 11, 2018
posted by epj at 12:30 PM on April 11, 2018
But a bluestocking was not a feminist (though of course there was overlap); to quote Wikipedia, "A bluestocking is an educated, intellectual woman," and sadly such women (then even more than now) are far from universally feminist—there were plenty who would have strongly opposed the very idea of equal rights for women. The past is a foreign country.
posted by languagehat at 2:09 PM on April 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 2:09 PM on April 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Also, anyone interested in the subject should read Judith Shulevitz's series on "Forgotten Feminisms"; here's the first installment, on Anna Doyle Wheeler and William Thompson, whose 1825 book Appeal of One Half the Human Race, Women, Against the Pretension of the Other Half, Men, to Retain Them in Political, and thence in Civil and Domestic, Slavery was astonishingly ahead of its time. If there is a useful term for early feminists, she's sure to come up with it. (Actually, somebody should post that to the blue...)
posted by languagehat at 2:23 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by languagehat at 2:23 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
The term Feminist was not commonplace in the 1830's and Suffragist/ette was often used in place of the word Feminist well into the 1900's. The reason why Suffragist was more popular a term in the late 1800's is because it stemmed from an older English term meaning to pray for or support. Feminist was a newer term that had not been used really beforehand. The "ette" in Suffragette was really added as a means to be patronizing to the ladies. I won't go into the details of that etymology here, but it might be of interest to you.
Before that time such women were just called deranged quite frankly. I'm not sure what your project entails, but how such women were treated is a fascinating topic. In more archaic times they could be called possessed by demons, but even in rather recent history they were put in institutions, Given shock treatments - and If I remember correctly even forced to undergo brain surgery in some cases. So yeah- Before that time they waz just cray-cray.
posted by fantasticness at 2:27 PM on April 11, 2018
Before that time such women were just called deranged quite frankly. I'm not sure what your project entails, but how such women were treated is a fascinating topic. In more archaic times they could be called possessed by demons, but even in rather recent history they were put in institutions, Given shock treatments - and If I remember correctly even forced to undergo brain surgery in some cases. So yeah- Before that time they waz just cray-cray.
posted by fantasticness at 2:27 PM on April 11, 2018
But a bluestocking was not a feminist (though of course there was overlap); to quote Wikipedia, "A bluestocking is an educated, intellectual woman," and sadly such women (then even more than now) are far from universally feminist—there were plenty who would have strongly opposed the very idea of equal rights for women.
Intellectualism among women was a feminist rebellion. Universal equal rights? We're talking about women who wanted the right to own property. Members of the Bluestockings were radicals.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on April 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Intellectualism among women was a feminist rebellion. Universal equal rights? We're talking about women who wanted the right to own property. Members of the Bluestockings were radicals.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on April 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
> Before that time such women were just called deranged quite frankly.
You said this before and it's not an answer.
> Intellectualism among women was a feminist rebellion.
You can call anything you like a feminist rebellion, but the fact remains that the vast majority of those women would have been horrified by modern feminism, and it simply doesn't make sense to try to dragoon them into the movement ex post facto.
> Members of the Bluestockings were radicals.
"Radical" is not the same as "feminist," which is exactly how second-wave feminism got started—they got fed up with how their radical brothers were treating them.
posted by languagehat at 3:01 PM on April 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
You said this before and it's not an answer.
> Intellectualism among women was a feminist rebellion.
You can call anything you like a feminist rebellion, but the fact remains that the vast majority of those women would have been horrified by modern feminism, and it simply doesn't make sense to try to dragoon them into the movement ex post facto.
> Members of the Bluestockings were radicals.
"Radical" is not the same as "feminist," which is exactly how second-wave feminism got started—they got fed up with how their radical brothers were treating them.
posted by languagehat at 3:01 PM on April 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Even in the 1970s, we were called Women's Libbers more than feminists.
posted by theora55 at 4:37 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 4:37 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
the fact remains that the vast majority of those women would have been horrified by modern feminism
Obviously. I said as much. You appear to be interpreting the OP's question as "If today's feminists were to travel back in time, their ideals and ideologies intact, what would they have been called?" But as we agree, the feminist ideologies of today could not have existed in the 1780s. There is no word for what such a woman would have been called, except perhaps "a patient in Bedlam."
Nobody is trying to dragoon Bluestockings into anything. I am simply saying that they were, within the confines of their time and place, the most analogous identifiable group.
I dispute both your assertion that feminism is not radical, and your assertion on the roots of second wave feminism, but you seem awfully salty over this thread and I have no desire to play "somebody is wrong on the Internet!" so I'm leaving you to it.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:16 PM on April 11, 2018 [13 favorites]
Obviously. I said as much. You appear to be interpreting the OP's question as "If today's feminists were to travel back in time, their ideals and ideologies intact, what would they have been called?" But as we agree, the feminist ideologies of today could not have existed in the 1780s. There is no word for what such a woman would have been called, except perhaps "a patient in Bedlam."
Nobody is trying to dragoon Bluestockings into anything. I am simply saying that they were, within the confines of their time and place, the most analogous identifiable group.
I dispute both your assertion that feminism is not radical, and your assertion on the roots of second wave feminism, but you seem awfully salty over this thread and I have no desire to play "somebody is wrong on the Internet!" so I'm leaving you to it.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:16 PM on April 11, 2018 [13 favorites]
I think they were mostly referred to as social reformers, or simply reformers. (Or in the case of Olympe de Gouges, une réformatrice.) Sometimes they were referred to as writers or speakers on "the condition of women".
Women's rights were often addressed as part of other reforms, so sometimes they were known as education reformers or poverty reformers who emphasized changing or improving conditions for women and girls. And eventually, anti-slavery reform led to the women's suffrage movement and the collective terms got more specific.
posted by camyram at 9:45 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Women's rights were often addressed as part of other reforms, so sometimes they were known as education reformers or poverty reformers who emphasized changing or improving conditions for women and girls. And eventually, anti-slavery reform led to the women's suffrage movement and the collective terms got more specific.
posted by camyram at 9:45 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, guys, despite slight derails. It seems like "bluestocking" or bas bleu in de Gouges' case would be a likely label to be used (apart from "deranged", I guess...) despite it not being 1-to-1 with "feminist".
posted by Harald74 at 10:26 PM on April 11, 2018
posted by Harald74 at 10:26 PM on April 11, 2018
The Revd Richard Polwhele called them unsexed females:
posted by verstegan at 7:52 AM on April 12, 2018
Survey with me, what ne'er our fathers saw,Polwhele approved of the bluestockings (Elizabeth Montagu, Elizabeth Carter, et al) because he saw them as models of 'mild' and 'refined' femininity. He disapproved of Mary Wollstonecraft because she rejected that idea of female sensibility and seemed to be denying any innate difference between the sexes.
A female band despising NATURE'S law,
As "proud defiance" flashes from their arms,
And vengeance smothers all their softer charms.
posted by verstegan at 7:52 AM on April 12, 2018
Christine de Pizan was not called deranged. She pushed back on a fundamentally misogynistic view of women in the 15th goddamn century and was extraordinarily well-respected and professionally successful for it.
At the end of the 16th century and early part of the 17th century there was an uptick in women writers who were writing on what we would now consider proto-feminist philosophies. There was not a name for this per se, but it was a known "thing" described in phrases such "the question of the nature of women" or "the debate on womens' virtue." Most were publishing anonymously/pseudonymously (see Jane Anger) but there are some notable exceptions. In particular, proto-feminist writing got a kick in the pants when a trollish jerk by the name of Joseph Swetnam published The Arraignment of Women in 1615. The ensuing pamphlet war generated some pretty brilliant responses. Among the rebuttals, Rachel Speght was a respected author under her own name.
The short answer to your question is that women called themselves philosophers or writers or playwrights or whatever, and while the issues of what would become feminism were a recognized subject area, it was described in context rather than given a discreet name.
posted by desuetude at 10:22 AM on April 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
At the end of the 16th century and early part of the 17th century there was an uptick in women writers who were writing on what we would now consider proto-feminist philosophies. There was not a name for this per se, but it was a known "thing" described in phrases such "the question of the nature of women" or "the debate on womens' virtue." Most were publishing anonymously/pseudonymously (see Jane Anger) but there are some notable exceptions. In particular, proto-feminist writing got a kick in the pants when a trollish jerk by the name of Joseph Swetnam published The Arraignment of Women in 1615. The ensuing pamphlet war generated some pretty brilliant responses. Among the rebuttals, Rachel Speght was a respected author under her own name.
The short answer to your question is that women called themselves philosophers or writers or playwrights or whatever, and while the issues of what would become feminism were a recognized subject area, it was described in context rather than given a discreet name.
posted by desuetude at 10:22 AM on April 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
> It seems like "bluestocking" or bas bleu in de Gouges' case would be a likely label to be used (apart from "deranged", I guess...) despite it not being 1-to-1 with "feminist".
Referring to such women as bluestockings presumes that reformers were intellectuals and therefore upper-class. The history of working-class women involved in social change has already quite successfully been erased, and while we cannot undo this, I don't feel comfortable perpetuating it.
posted by desuetude at 10:53 AM on April 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Referring to such women as bluestockings presumes that reformers were intellectuals and therefore upper-class. The history of working-class women involved in social change has already quite successfully been erased, and while we cannot undo this, I don't feel comfortable perpetuating it.
posted by desuetude at 10:53 AM on April 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
From her Déclaration des Droits de la Femme et de la Citoyenne (Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen (French: ), she seems to have called herself a citoyenne, female citizen.
posted by at at 2:33 PM on April 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by at at 2:33 PM on April 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Meaning there was no name for them. The term suffragette was often used in place of the word Feminist despite the fact that they are not synonyms, but that word was exclusively used for women. A man could not be a suffragette even though there were some (albeit few) men that believed in the cause. A feminist by contrast can be male or female. It appears that the word came about around the same time as women's suffrage.
posted by fantasticness at 11:30 AM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]