Talk to me like it's 1997
March 8, 2018 8:10 AM Subscribe
How did people aged roughly 15-20 speak to each other -- and to themselves -- in 1997?
I'm writing a novel that's partly set in 1997 in Southwestern Ontario, and my characters' use of language seems slightly off from what I remember it being. They're young women from near a small town, and their families are farmers and factory workers, so they're working class/ lower-middle class.
I'm hoping you can recommend media -- books, if possible, but T.V. too (preferably available on Netflix or for free elsewhere) that do a particularly good job of capturing the way people talked.
Thank you in advance.
I'm writing a novel that's partly set in 1997 in Southwestern Ontario, and my characters' use of language seems slightly off from what I remember it being. They're young women from near a small town, and their families are farmers and factory workers, so they're working class/ lower-middle class.
I'm hoping you can recommend media -- books, if possible, but T.V. too (preferably available on Netflix or for free elsewhere) that do a particularly good job of capturing the way people talked.
Thank you in advance.
Best answer: My So-Called Life felt like it had been written exactly for me and my friends when it came out. The characters could have sat at our lunch table and participated in whatever foolishness we were in that day without anyone batting an eyelash. I haven't revisited it recently to see if it holds up, but then, that may kind of be the point.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:28 AM on March 8, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:28 AM on March 8, 2018 [32 favorites]
Best answer: I'd look to "my so called life", the film Kids, Lost children of Rockdale County, Boys don't cry, American Pie, Mall rats, 10 things I hate about you, Clueless.
posted by beccaj at 8:30 AM on March 8, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by beccaj at 8:30 AM on March 8, 2018 [8 favorites]
MTV debuted the live show "Total Request Live" in 1997. If you watch old episodes on YouTube, you'll get very natural 1997 speech. (Here's one.)
posted by xo at 8:34 AM on March 8, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by xo at 8:34 AM on March 8, 2018 [14 favorites]
Cool, awesome, y'know, sweet, uh-huh (Beavis & Butthead).
Beavis & Butthead were huge among my hick working-class crowd in the 90s, and we were teens. Ditto for Wayne's World.
Seconding word. Because, like, y'know. (Though I think "because, like" may be more West Coast.)
posted by fraula at 8:44 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Beavis & Butthead were huge among my hick working-class crowd in the 90s, and we were teens. Ditto for Wayne's World.
Seconding word. Because, like, y'know. (Though I think "because, like" may be more West Coast.)
posted by fraula at 8:44 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I was a 17-year-old girl in the Midwest in 1997, and, back in the day, hi, I was, like, sooo obsessed with the way the characters talked in Kevin Smith films and on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, because-- DUDE-- it totally sounded so much like my friends and me. When I watched Clueless, I was like, AS IF I sound like those Valley Girls, but, as you can probably tell from this SWEET impression I am doing right now of 17-year-old me, whatEVer, I hella sounded like a Valley Girl from Clueless, yes, even as a working class kid in Misery, I mean, Missouri, because California slang was fly nationwide.
posted by BlueJae at 8:47 AM on March 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 8:47 AM on March 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
If possible, I'd search out recordings of actual teenagers speaking from that time period before I'd search out fiction. The vast majority of the fiction won't have been written by people who actually were that age, and in many cases may be exaggerated for effect in ways you may not pick up on.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is sort of a tough question. I'm in that age range, from a place that's going to match to some degree the media depictions, and know a lot of people from Ontario including some from rural areas (and I'm also a linguist fwiw). I strongly suspect that any sort of generalized media depiction that would be moderately accurate for e.g. me is going to get small-town Ontario wrong in a lot of subtle ways, even if it might give you some broad clues. I would suggest that your best bet if you *really* want accuracy is going to be to work with someone who is from rural Ontario to try to get concrete feedback on actual dialogue.
posted by advil at 8:52 AM on March 8, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by advil at 8:52 AM on March 8, 2018 [11 favorites]
I was that age at that time and I spent all my time on message boards and on online journals. I'd look in the way back machine for hissyfit, it was a website with very active forums and rants and such, run by folks in Canada... Toronto I think.
posted by pazazygeek at 8:57 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by pazazygeek at 8:57 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
The casts of The Real World/ Road Rules.
posted by brujita at 8:58 AM on March 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by brujita at 8:58 AM on March 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I was a young woman in Buffalo at that time (slightly younger than your age range but pretty close to your geographic area) in a lower middle class family. West coast slang like "hella" and "fly" would stick out as being wrong to me, "sweet" maybe as well. I don't remember that being used much at all. BlueJae is dead on with "whatEVer," though, possibly accompanied by making a W with your hands if you really wanted to drive the point home.
I would recommend watching a couple of 1997 episodes of programs produced by CBC (Due South was really popular with us for some reason) and YTV. YTV might skew a little younger content-wise but the lingo is likely to be similar.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:03 AM on March 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would recommend watching a couple of 1997 episodes of programs produced by CBC (Due South was really popular with us for some reason) and YTV. YTV might skew a little younger content-wise but the lingo is likely to be similar.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:03 AM on March 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Also: it's not books/tv, it may be more of a rabbit hole than it'd be worth in the end, but local music might provide some additional insight. If you can find show listings for venues in Guelph/Detroit/Toronto/Buffalo/whatever city is appropriate to their location and listening to the bands that were playing around then...I'm not coming up with much for the Trasheteria (beloved venue in Guelph), but this tumblr has a lot of Western New York area stuff.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:19 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:19 AM on March 8, 2018
Just make everyone talk exactly like Pauly Shore in Encino Man
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:20 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:20 AM on March 8, 2018
I remember saying "dope" A LOT.
One thing I was really surprised about with the Sopranos is how well they handled the dialogue for Meadow in the first couple of seasons. Her character struck me as being pretty real.
My So-Called Life had a pretty interesting chicken-and-egg effect. I don't know if it was just very good at picking up idioms, or if everyone who watched it just started imitating it, but it was very much an accurate reflection of how people talked around 95-96 in Ohio, especially girls. It was a pretty niche show, though. Even now that Claire Danes is pretty famous and they've had 20 years to catch up, I still find that only about half of the people my age have even heard of the show, let alone watched it.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:40 AM on March 8, 2018
One thing I was really surprised about with the Sopranos is how well they handled the dialogue for Meadow in the first couple of seasons. Her character struck me as being pretty real.
My So-Called Life had a pretty interesting chicken-and-egg effect. I don't know if it was just very good at picking up idioms, or if everyone who watched it just started imitating it, but it was very much an accurate reflection of how people talked around 95-96 in Ohio, especially girls. It was a pretty niche show, though. Even now that Claire Danes is pretty famous and they've had 20 years to catch up, I still find that only about half of the people my age have even heard of the show, let alone watched it.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:40 AM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: If you're able to borrow anyone's high school yearbooks from that time period (in roughly the same region), I would bet the articles, senior quotes, and messages signed from friends would be helpful. My yearbooks are filled with notes with a lot of people using slang, pop culture references, etc. and all the articles were written by student staff.
Apparently Ancestry.ca has a large digital archive of Canadian yearbooks from 1901 - 2010 although you have to have an account to view them.
posted by castlebravo at 9:40 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Apparently Ancestry.ca has a large digital archive of Canadian yearbooks from 1901 - 2010 although you have to have an account to view them.
posted by castlebravo at 9:40 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I agree with what has been mentioned so far. I could add what I remember being influential at the time, when I was a 22-year-old male college student in a medium-sized midwestern city: the Simpsons (this was the biggest cultural influence on me at the time), the TV show Friends, Bigfoot/Ufology/conspiracy theories from the X-Files, the nascent commercial Web and chat rooms. Michael Jordan and the Olympic basketball Dream Team. Monica Lewinsky and Y2K. Younger kids were just getting into Pokemon, Gundam Wing and Dragonball Z on cable.
posted by Slothrop at 9:50 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Slothrop at 9:50 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Ancestry can be accessed for free at public libraries.
posted by brujita at 10:09 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by brujita at 10:09 AM on March 8, 2018
I'm that age range too, but from the Vancouver area - however there's always been some significant overlap between the big metro Canadian areas. Friends as mentioned was huge. Original 90210. Dawson's Creek was just a tad after that, but still felt relevant. Simpsons. And yes, anything from Kevin Smith during that era. X-files. I remember Ally McBeal and the damn dancing baby. And the mainstream Seattle grunge scene had a huge effect on us... I was in high school when Kurt Cobain died, and we were in legit mourning.
posted by cgg at 10:12 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by cgg at 10:12 AM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: I was in small town Ontario and just over 20 in 1997. There was a distinct difference in Canadian slang and accent at the time, so American stuff noted above may not be as helpful as you think. For instance, hoser was still used ironically. (I'm in rural Ontario NOW and the difference between us and Toronto is notable!)
There seemed to be a lot more British influence, anything on CFNY was HOT, MuchMusic and Speakers corner was still influential (check out the speakers corner rabbit hole episodes on YouTube). Have a look through old Clips on the RetroOntario YouTube channel.
posted by saucysault at 10:16 AM on March 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
There seemed to be a lot more British influence, anything on CFNY was HOT, MuchMusic and Speakers corner was still influential (check out the speakers corner rabbit hole episodes on YouTube). Have a look through old Clips on the RetroOntario YouTube channel.
posted by saucysault at 10:16 AM on March 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm of that age group and unfortunately there was a lot more casual misogynistic, abelist, and especially homophobic terms that could be sprinkled into casual conversation back then in ways that simply would not fly now. Hopefully Canadian politeness weeded much of that out, but I suspect that casual teenage cruelty is universal.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:20 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:20 AM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: This talks about the SWON accent, different to the Northern ON accent (I think in 1997 we also used Ont as the abbreviation, not ON). 'Scuz me, now I'm done my melk I gotta step outside for a dart.
posted by saucysault at 10:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 10:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was a little bit younger than this in during this time (I was 12) but my sister was 17/18. I remember a lot of "my boo" instead of "bae" like people say now, and "hunchin" was a term use for making out/etc. I don't think Clueless is a good movie to reference for this because we definitely did not say things like "as if", but I guess it's really going to depend on what part of the country things were done in at that time. "My So Called Life" would be a good reference, or "Party of 5" and "7th Heaven"
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2018
Also I think Friends might be worth a re-watch?
posted by pazazygeek at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2018
posted by pazazygeek at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: I meet all of your description except about 5 years younger than your desired cohort and a slightly different area of rural Ontario. What I remember being big as an early teen was stuff like loser-loner-WHATever, like, lame, cool.
Never ever heard hella or fly (and almost never since then, either). I don't think those really made it all the way up here, other than on tv.
I don't remember there being a ton of slang in general and I suspect you're more likely to throw people off by using inaccurate slang than by not using slang that was used, so I would suggest keeping your "flavour" pretty light.
Re: melk etc, I never knew it was an accent until I moved to the Big City and everyone made fun of me for saying melk. So it only really becomes relevant if your characters are traveling outside of their region, but could be a thing then.
posted by randomnity at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Never ever heard hella or fly (and almost never since then, either). I don't think those really made it all the way up here, other than on tv.
I don't remember there being a ton of slang in general and I suspect you're more likely to throw people off by using inaccurate slang than by not using slang that was used, so I would suggest keeping your "flavour" pretty light.
Re: melk etc, I never knew it was an accent until I moved to the Big City and everyone made fun of me for saying melk. So it only really becomes relevant if your characters are traveling outside of their region, but could be a thing then.
posted by randomnity at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
I moved from Toronto to Waterloo for school in 1997. I remember my roommate talked a bit differently than me (he was from the Kingston area) but from what I could tell everyone in KW talked about the same as I did. I agree with saucysault and think if you were able to get some MuchMusic VJ footage or Speaker's Corner stuff from the time that would be your best bet. Or maybe some YTV stuff with PJ Phil.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:05 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:05 PM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: I grew up on a farm near London. My older family members had a very distinctive way of speaking which was different from the younger generation, and we often made fun of them for it: "skitters" = mosquitoes, "acrosst" = across, "Chesterfield" = couch, etc. I mostly think of it as "farmer speak". Inevitably, some of this sunk into our speech too. I came across this article which features the SW ON phrase "yeah, no", might be worth checking out.
In terms of younger culture, this so depends on where in Southwestern ON. I was a bit young for that date range, but there is definitely some slang that was very specific for Port Dover (CTRL+F for "Dover"). If it seems very stoner-ish, well, that says something about the general culture of the town in the early 2000's...
For your specific question about media examples, the only thing I can think about is a book that I'm waiting for by Andre Alexis.
posted by Paper rabies at 12:17 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
In terms of younger culture, this so depends on where in Southwestern ON. I was a bit young for that date range, but there is definitely some slang that was very specific for Port Dover (CTRL+F for "Dover"). If it seems very stoner-ish, well, that says something about the general culture of the town in the early 2000's...
For your specific question about media examples, the only thing I can think about is a book that I'm waiting for by Andre Alexis.
posted by Paper rabies at 12:17 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
On post-view, I see that saucysault already posted that CBC article!
posted by Paper rabies at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by Paper rabies at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2018
I was born in 1978. Slang I remember from the mid-90s in Boston and Minnesota and that I specifically remember older people being baffled by. Many of these were used ironically by my friends, because it was the 90s.
Cheesy
Alterna-[insert thing that is alternative]
Chick
The bomb
Badass
Sketch
All that (maybe all that and a bag of chips)
Then there was all the stuff that would not fly today because it is offensive. The R-word for someone who is acting like an idiot, saying "that's so gay" for something that is uncool.
posted by lunasol at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2018
Cheesy
Alterna-[insert thing that is alternative]
Chick
The bomb
Badass
Sketch
All that (maybe all that and a bag of chips)
Then there was all the stuff that would not fly today because it is offensive. The R-word for someone who is acting like an idiot, saying "that's so gay" for something that is uncool.
posted by lunasol at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2018
OK, the adults understood what "badass" meant. But it definitely had a resurgence in the 90s.
posted by lunasol at 12:24 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by lunasol at 12:24 PM on March 8, 2018
Best answer: BlueJae is dead on with "whatEVer," though, possibly accompanied by making a W with your hands if you really wanted to drive the point home.
Also, making an"L" with your hand on your forehead to indicate "loser."
posted by lunasol at 12:25 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, making an"L" with your hand on your forehead to indicate "loser."
posted by lunasol at 12:25 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you! Lots of this is helpful, and I'm about to head down a rabbit-hole of confirming and refuting my memories.
posted by platitudipus at 12:50 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by platitudipus at 12:50 PM on March 8, 2018
Also, making an"L" with your hand on your forehead to indicate "loser."
Definitely. If you wanted to go all out, you combined them, as in "Loser" (make L shape on forehead), "loner" (make L shape with other hand) "whatever" (make W shape)
I have no idea where this came from or how widespread it was, but people directed the full sequence at me very often in middle school (on a related note, small-town kids seem to often be hostile to kids perceived as outsiders for whatever reasons... city kids seemed far less insular).
posted by randomnity at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2018
Definitely. If you wanted to go all out, you combined them, as in "Loser" (make L shape on forehead), "loner" (make L shape with other hand) "whatever" (make W shape)
I have no idea where this came from or how widespread it was, but people directed the full sequence at me very often in middle school (on a related note, small-town kids seem to often be hostile to kids perceived as outsiders for whatever reasons... city kids seemed far less insular).
posted by randomnity at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2018
Definitely throw in some early seasons Simpsons quotes too
posted by trialex at 2:46 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by trialex at 2:46 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would recommend looking up Much Music call-in shows and Speaker's Corner.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 3:17 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 3:17 PM on March 8, 2018
Southern CA kids were using "gay" as a synonym for uncool/stupid in the mid70s.
posted by brujita at 3:42 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 3:42 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also we all said "retarded" as a pejorative, a lot.
posted by daisystomper at 5:26 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 5:26 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was that age in suburban Toronto back then. Definitely check out speakers corner from much music, we didn't get MTV back then. Our Lady Peace was pretty big, and from our neighbourhood. I probably still talk like that? Back then we used to say "the 416"for Toronto, and "the 905" for the neighbouring areas, like Mississauga. "Yeah, no" is something I didn't realize was regional until I moved away.
posted by Valancy Rachel at 5:30 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Valancy Rachel at 5:30 PM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I was 17 in 97 and lived in the US. I don't know if they're connected but I had a couple friends who were Canadian and they loved play six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
posted by txtwinkletoes at 6:00 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by txtwinkletoes at 6:00 PM on March 8, 2018
I'm exactly that age and My So Called life hits it on the head. They were much cooler than I was, but the speaking patterns were spot on.
posted by katypickle at 7:17 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by katypickle at 7:17 PM on March 8, 2018
Probably a weak lead...it's a show released in 2018, it's set in the US (small town Oregon), and the caveats mentioned for other shows and films certainly apply. That said, I just watched a trailer for the Netflix series Everything Sucks!, which is set in 1996 and revolves around the lives of high school students. As I'd thoroughly read this thread an hour or two before, I laughed out loud when two adult characters mocked the phrase "all that and a bag of chips." Some kids watched an image load via dialup, and I could tell it was going to be the dancing baby (ugh), even though I'd never heard of it before this thread. Perhaps this could give you a bit more to explore.
posted by Carouselle at 8:50 PM on March 8, 2018
posted by Carouselle at 8:50 PM on March 8, 2018
When it comes to Midwestern teen culture, Clueless was to the mid-'90s what Moon Unit Zappa singing "Valley Girl" was to the early '80s: a bunch of slang and catchphrases which instantly became popular after their release (because affluent Southern California kids were always our paragon) but which absolutely nobody used -- or even heard of -- beforehand. If you came out with an as if (or, earlier, gag me with a spoon), all your peers knew where you'd gotten it. None of that stuff was the pre-existing indigenous teenage speech.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:56 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:56 PM on March 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I am from Southwestern Ontario, and I grew up in the country outside of a small town of roughly 5000 people. Same class background as your characters too, although I was 13 in 1997. I just wanted to add that one thing we said all the time was “I’m so sure...”
It could be a response on its own: “Did you see that Kyle and Amy got back together?” “Ugh, I’m so sure.” It was also a typical way to begin a sentence: “I’m so sure we have homework again! This sucks!”
Also, popular kids were called “preppies” at my school, even though by most standards they were not preppy in the slightest.
posted by to recite so charmingly at 4:01 AM on March 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
It could be a response on its own: “Did you see that Kyle and Amy got back together?” “Ugh, I’m so sure.” It was also a typical way to begin a sentence: “I’m so sure we have homework again! This sucks!”
Also, popular kids were called “preppies” at my school, even though by most standards they were not preppy in the slightest.
posted by to recite so charmingly at 4:01 AM on March 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Along with the other mentioned pejoratives, in my area kids were big on referring to things as "ghetto".
posted by asteria at 10:43 AM on March 9, 2018
posted by asteria at 10:43 AM on March 9, 2018
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For example, I was 20 in 1997 and I remember when I was 14 or 15 thinking that the way that the characters spoke in the original Degrassi was hilarious, even though they were only a couple years older than I was (but that also could have been the cultural difference).
posted by elsietheeel at 8:24 AM on March 8, 2018